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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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3.10 - A hypothetical answer
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    • Sirrocco said:
    Opposing vote.

    [x] As a purely hypothetical situation, Otomo-sama? it would depend on what resources I had available to me. The things that you can expect Lion magistrates to be willing to do and the things that you can expect Scorpion magistrates to be willing to do are not the same. I have learned from the stories of my family about the proper way to approach such a situation. You must follow the creature back to its lair. Perhaps you catch some of the obvious patsies and seek to extract from them their commonalities. Perhaps you leave some of them to run free for a time, so that they can be watched and followed. Perhaps you seek to turn the loyalties of some, so that they can be used to draw out others. I have learned of these ways, but I have not learned their proper execution. Proper execution requires magistrates who are trained in these techniques and willing to apply them.
    [x] Thus, if I were not already in a city of my own Clan, I would go to the Scorpion for assistance. The Scorpion are by formal decree the Emperor's Under Hand. Seeking out shadowy conspiracies that might threaten the Empire is exactly what we are here for. Obviously there are diplomatic concerns, but barring significant hostilities, I suspect the Scorpion would be quite reasonable. My clan is eager to serve the will of the Emperor in any way we can.
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    You think fast, taking in the scenario presented to you and considering all of the possible implications in any potential answer. Otomo Kairyu is being almost transparent in how obviously the 'hypothetical' situation applies to something the Lion are currently working on, and you need to balance the prestige provided by a useful and insightful answer with the danger of offending the chief magistrate of Shiro Matsu with an indelicate response.

    "As a purely hypothetical situation, Otomo-sama?" You ask mildly, buying time while you sort through the last few possibilities and construct the best possible answer. "Well, it would depend on the resources that were available to me. Certainly this is a matter for the magistrates, but what you can expect a Lion Magistrate to be able and willing to do would not be the same as what you might expect of a Scorpion magistrate."

    Kitsu Ami inclines her head, taking a sip of her tea before speaking. Her voice is exceptionally smooth, each word flowing into the next like a river across rocks - which, depending on how much time she spends communing with the elemental kami, might be a more literal description than would otherwise be the case.

    "An astute observation, Soshi-san." She says calmly, though there is a distinctly pointed edge to her words as she glances at the Otomo sitting across from her. "It is an unfortunate necessity that material resources alone can constrain a samurai's actions, no matter how pure their heart."

    "And yet one must also consider the role that sheer intelligence can play in such matters, allowing a perceptive man to see a path beyond the eyes of those less gifted." Otomo Kairyu says serenely, and you have to work to avoid visibly flinching as the Kitsu's eyes harden at the veiled insult. You are reasonably sure that the honourable magistrate will not be inclined to take violent action against a member of the Imperial Families, but if she does... well, you would either have to move quickly, or be smeared against the walls by an angry water spirit. If Otomo Kairyu understands the danger of the situation, it does not show in his expression or his tone, however. "Please, Soshi-san, enlighten me on these differences in ability between the Clans."

    "I have learned from the stories of my parents how the Soshi would approach the situation, Otomo-sama." You say carefully, striving to avoid insult, for you are not nearly as protected from harm as the man you are meant to be guarding. "We would seek to follow the creatures back to their lair. Perhaps we might aim to capture some of the more obvious dupes, and under interrogation reveal the common elements that bind them together. Or perhaps we would identify them but restrain from capturing them, in order to see who they spoke with or where they went. In certain cases, we might seek to turn the loyalties of key members, and use our new agents to identify and subdue the rest."

    "And do you think that such methods would work well here, Soshi-san?" Kitsu Ami says with dangerous softness, abandoning the pretense that this is merely a hypothetical situation under discussion.

    "I could not say, Kitsu-sama." You reply politely, aware of the precipice you are approaching and determined not to step over it. "I have learned of these techniques from the stories of my family, but I have never been trained in them directly. Proper execution, and the understanding of whether to employ them in the first place, requires both an understanding of the local situation and magistrates trained and willing to act in such a manner."

    "Alas, duty rarely allows for ideal circumstances." Otomo Kairyu interjects, still smiling pleasantly. "Assume that you do not have such agents at your disposal, Soshi-san. How do you proceed."

    All at once, you see the choice laid out before you. Otomo Kairyu has brought you in here as a representative of the Scorpion, and is for some unknown reason deliberately insulting and belittling the Lion magistrates in order to spark a conflict. Unable to strike back at an Imperial, there is a disturbingly high chance that Kistu Ami will transfer her hostility towards you and your Clan, which would likely result in all manner of consequences detrimental to your assigned mission here. This, you cannot allow, and in a flash of insight you believe you can identify a way to avoid that problem entirely. Fortunes favour the bold, after all, and with that in mind you collect yourself and then commit.

    "If I were not in a city of my own Clan, Otomo-sama, I would go to the Scorpion for assistance." You say calmly, before shifting your gaze back towards the Kitsu. "The Scorpion are, by formal decree, the Emperor's Underhand, just as the Lion are his Right. Seeking out shadowy conspiracies that might threaten the Empire or its citizens is precisely the sort of duty we are meant for. Obviously there might be diplomatic concerns, but barring unusual hostilities I suspect the Scorpion would be quite reasonable and happy to assist. My Clan is always eager to serve the Emperor, in any way that we can."

    And just like that, you have sidestepped the building confrontation and turned it to your advantage. By presenting the Scorpion as potential allies wishing to help, rather than as the superior option looking to supplant, you have defused and redirected the growing hostility in the room and harnessed it for your own benefit. You can see by the glint in Kitsu Ami's eyes that she understands the path presented to her, and her smile seems somewhat more genuine now, if still as sharp as before.

    "A fine suggestion, Soshi-san, and one worth acting on." She says with false pleasantness, seizing on the opportunity to thwart the Otomo's evident intentions in the most courteous and honourable fashion possible. "Please, convey a request for a meeting from me to Bayushi-san, at a time that would be convenient for her. I believe we may have a considerable amount to discuss."

    Otomo Kairyu shoots you a glance, his On slipping for a brief moment to reveal a blend of irritation and amusement in his eyes. "Well spoken indeed, Soshi-san. Still, I believe my business is concluded here, and I wish to return to Shiro Matsu."

    "Of course, Otomo-sama." You say politely, resisting the urge to sigh in relief. Provided that no one else tries to murder you on the way back, you'd have to say that this day is going pretty well so far.

    -/-

    There are no more attacks on the way back to the castle. You therefore have the opportunity to spend the rest of the day on an activity of your choosing. Please select one of the following options (it is assumed that you will make a report to Kimoko beforehand)
    [ ] Investigating the Five Arches
    [ ] Seeking out Pale Oak
    [ ] Spending time with Doji Mariko
    [ ] Write in
     
  • Threadmarks
    • As an aside, I decided to roll Awareness and Etiquette for Naoto to see how well you navigated the potentially very dangerous conversation there. 6k3 came up with a total result of 34, continuing Naoto's developing trend of rolling tremendously well when he most needs to.

    As a result, what could have easily been the beginnings of a feud between your delegation and the local law enforcement was instead turned into the first stages of an alliance, motivated at least in part by Kitsu Ami's desire to tell the honourable Otomo to go fuck himself. Since that would be tantamount to suicide, she instead chose to defy his will by being aggressively friendly with the people he wanted her to oppose.

    As you might observe, having a friend among the Otomo is a double-edged sword.
     
    On one hand we have an Otomo that we know. Sometimes this means good things.

    On the other hand we have an Otomo that we know. Sometimes this means bad things. Like now.

    [x] Talk to Pale Oak about the Five Arches

    We'll likely have to add more on to this vote, and to go into detail but hey I'm lazy rn :V
     
    Maugan Ra said:
    As an aside, I decided to roll Awareness and Etiquette for Naoto to see how well you navigated the potentially very dangerous conversation there. 6k3 came up with a total result of 34, continuing Naoto's developing trend of rolling tremendously well when he most needs to.

    As a result, what could have easily been the beginnings of a feud between your delegation and the local law enforcement was instead turned into the first stages of an alliance, motivated at least in part by Kitsu Ami's desire to tell the honourable Otomo to go fuck himself. Since that would be tantamount to suicide, she instead chose to defy his will by being aggressively friendly with the people he wanted her to oppose.

    As you might observe, having a friend among the Otomo is a double-edged sword.
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    Roll six, keep three? What sided dice are those. I'm trying to figure out how unlikely this is.
     
    Maugan Ra said:
    As a result, what could have easily been the beginnings of a feud between your delegation and the local law enforcement was instead turned into the first stages of an alliance, motivated at least in part by Kitsu Ami's desire to tell the honourable Otomo to go fuck himself. Since that would be tantamount to suicide, she instead chose to defy his will by being aggressively friendly with the people he wanted her to oppose.
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    *Continues surfing the edge of disaster while playing appropriate instrument*
     
    You know... it seems entirely appropriate that Soshi Naoto had to roll Awareness+Etiquette to come up with, on the spur of the moment, something that took us a day and change to hammer out.

    [x] Talk to Pale Oak about the Five Arches

    Step 1: Aquire Otomo ally.
    Step 2: Survive having Otomo ally.
    Step 3: ????
    Step 4: Profit.

    Whooo. Managed to dodge a... few bullets there. Happily, Plan "all things to all people" is still going strong. Next up: I notice... while we didn't give our QM all that many handles to work with by buying flaws, we gave him *plenty* with the ambition with which we are pursuing our duty.

    Kudos to @Maugan Ra for his skill at setting up "Oh hell. What do we do now?" moments.
     
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    [x] Talk to Pale Oak about the Five Arches

    So, we just saved the Otomo's life, got an ally that will 'go out of his way to aid you' and the first thing he does is try to make us to point man in a Lion Scorpion feud he's trying to start. I know that he specifically invited us to have this happen, and he couldn't just disregard the plan because of our actions, but still. It's more than a little annoying.

    So, should we let our boss know that the Otomo is rather blatantly trying to set us against the Lion(and local law enforcement specifically)? Is it just assumed that he's going to be fucking with us and the specifics don't really matter?
     
    legiodamnatus said:
    [x] Talk to Pale Oak about the Five Arches

    So, we just saved the Otomo's life, got an ally that will 'go out of his way to aid you' and the first thing he does is try to make us to point man in a Lion Scorpion feud he's trying to start. I know that he specifically invited us to have this happen, and he couldn't just disregard the plan because of our actions, but still. It's more than a little annoying.

    So, should we let our boss know that the Otomo is rather blatantly trying to set us against the Lion(and local law enforcement specifically)? Is it just assumed that he's going to be fucking with us and the specifics don't really matter?
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    The Otomo mess with everyone. It is, quite literally, their job. The thing they do with their day is to make sure that the major clans are all struggling against one another rather than banding together because the more they're pitted against one another, the less time and energy they have to plot against the emperor. I'd pretty much guessed that something like this would happen from the moment he invited us along - not the particulars of how, but that he'd pull some sort of "Here's my pet Scorpion. I'm messing with you, and he's supporting it. Clearly you should be mad at him.". It was worth it, but it was coming.

    Beyond that, Rokugan is a funny place in some ways, where people sometimes cherish a good enemy. When we thwarted him just then, he was annoyed, but also amused. We have gained in his estimation.

    More than that, we have gained *dramatically* in our primary goals for the Winter Court in this little visit. Right now, we're going to be lending one of the Lion Clan yoriki some scribes for a time, so that they can find out *exactly* how far they can afford to push things (and possibly slip a few useful bits in here and there... though I assume they know enough of their trade to not get greedy). We also have the chief magistrate of the city feeling appreciative, and we'll be arranging for a significant number of our magistrates to liase with them with the explicit job of setting up a counter-spying ring in a Lion city on the Lion dime. If our superiors back home are at all competent in who they choose for the position, our caravans will have no difficulties this year at all... or likely for some years to come. Even better - this particular issue is likely happening in many places throughout Rokugan. This might grow into farming out Scorpion magistrates to many places across the Empire.

    Still, it's true. The stuff we're trying to pull off here is pretty much exactly the sort of stuff the Otomo family is supposed to thwart. The more successful we appear to be, the more obstacles he's likely to throw in our way. "Will not compromise his honor" includes "will not compromise his Duty". At the same time, it'll likely affect *how* he throws obstacles at us. It puts us in the "respected adversary" role instead of the "irksome foe" role, which means that the obstacles will likely come less as attacks and more as challenges. If we do well enough, there's a good chance he'll try to get us into an imperial position just so that he can get us out of the Scorpion Clan diplomatic corps.

    ...yeah, we got a *lot* to brief Bayushi Kimiko on when we get back.

    edit: I also notice... we're getting pretty deep into the Lion's pockets at the moment, but in a manner of speaking we're looting as we go. They're running out of things to bribe us with, and have gotten very little commitment from us. This is, of course, how it should be. It's *interesting*, though, from a long-term strategy perspective. It's even more interesting that they aren't in a position to put the pieces together on this one at all, given that we've managed to accumulate it out of one-on-one deals with three different people. Ikoma-sama is never going to hear about the scribe loan, and the head of the magistrates might not. Absolutely no one is going to hear about the deal we have going with Ikoma-sama, and the request for magistrate support... might or might not percolate out with any speed. It's likely to get out at some point. If nothing else, Otomo-sama is likely to wish to use it as a weapon at some point. Still, that's the sort of thing he's likely to want to save for a particularly choice moment.
     
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    Yeah, all three present are doing their jobs, and both sides like us on a personal level(and dislikes each other)...but Duty calls and courtesies obeyed. The crazy intrigue beats open war

    Hell, we just got them to PAY us for the privlege of spying on them. Fun.
     
    veekie said:
    Yeah, all three present are doing their jobs, and both sides like us on a personal level(and dislikes each other)...but Duty calls and courtesies obeyed. The crazy intrigue beats open war

    Hell, we just got them to PAY us for the privlege of spying on them. Fun.
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    Well, for what it's worth, swapping your block of reasonably effective anti-imperial conspirators for a standard Scorpion spy ring is almost always a step up - particularly with Beiden Pass keeping us generally in favor of good relations.
     
    [ X ] Seeking out Pale Oak and talking to him about:

    -The Five Arches(specifics on criminal activity, Strong Birch and the doshin assigned to his district, Taru(mention he is supposedly misusing his authoroty to punish those who oppose him)

    -Relay information about the lion Magistrates: Magistrate Kitsu Ami is a shugenja and her assistants(yoriki) have no support structure(additional heimin) to help them, they are balanced on an edge dealing with Matsu tempers(streesed out), are overworked and underapreciated.

    -Inform him of making a deal with one of the assistants,named Ikoma Ganyu, to send some heimin scribes over to help(and spy). Ask if he has the people to fill that promise.

    EDIT: -Make sure to be discreet, and try not to have the conversation be overheard.

    **********************
    I think that covers it. Am I missing anything else we were supposed to tell him about or ask him?
     
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    primemountain said:
    [ X ] Seeking out Pale Oak and talking to him about:

    -The Five Arches(specifics on criminal activity, Strong Birch and the doshin assigned to his district, Taru(mention he is supposedly misusing his authoroty to punish those who oppose him)

    -Relay information about the lion Magistrates: Magistrate Kitsu Ami is a shugenja and her assistants(yoriki) have no support structure(additional heimin) to help them, they are balanced on an edge dealing with Matsu tempers(streesed out), are overworked and underapreciated.

    -Inform him of making a deal with one of the assistants,named Ikoma Ganyu, to send some heimin scribes over to help(and spy). Ask if he has the people to fill that promise.

    **********************
    I think that covers it. Am I missing anything else we were supposed to tell him about or ask him?
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    additional (as I see it)

    - We'll also be mentioning about the rebels, and that we're setting up a deal to have some Scorpion magistrates come to clear them out. This might not happen immediately, but it's the sort of thing he'll likely want to plan around, long-term. It'd be a shame if a loyal servant of the Scorpion were picked up in something like that. He should also likely prepare to help in their efforts.

    - More particularly on Strong Birch, it would be worthwhile to know whether he's one of ours, a smuggler not aligned with us, or innocent. Further, regardless of his innocence or guilt, we're intending to testify that he is innocent after "carrying out our own investigation". We'd like Pale Oak to come up with some good, valid, convincing-to-the-Lion reasons for us to believe his innocence over the sworn word of the doshin. Additionally, we probably won't be taking direct advantage of this on the Strong Birch side ourselves, but we're pretty sure that Plae Oak can come up with some way to turn "My master has just saved you from otherwise inevitable torture, death, and dispossession of your family" into some additional hooks in the man. We'd rather he *not* be involved directly in smuggling, though. It'd look bad for us if we vouched for him and he was then discovered smuggling again afterwards.

    - If he was one of ours, and the conversation actually happened, and was with Pale Oak, we will express our disappointment in his failure of tradecraft. Overheard by a doshin of the Lion Clan? Pale Oak is a professional. He's supposed to be *better* than that. We're not going to rub it in too hard, but still....

    - We should, of course, have this discussion in our quarters, where we can be fairly certain of not being overheard. Much of this stuff is dangerous in the wrong ears. Almost any ears, really.
     
    I figure if we can prove the doshin is corrupt that should do it. As for the ariving Scorpion magistrates, i think it is too soon to talk about that, at least until the deal is actually struck, between out superiors and the Lion. I seem to recall that the pass gets snowed in during the winter, so any magistrate help might not arive for weeks. Though I could be misremebering that.

    As for Pale Oak being one of ours I kind of doubt it, but anything is possible. Making sure the convestaion is not overheard is well taken, I'll add it to the vote, though I am unsure if our quarters are the best location for that, for multiple reasons.
     
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