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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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Overall, Sirrocco's plan seems fairly good. One thing I think we should try to do, though, is keep up contact with Asako Tani, for various reasons.
In the short term and speaking of the delegation generally, the Phoenix are one of the most neutral clans at this Court, I believe, which might make them useful if we need to approach someone we're on bad terms with. They might also allow us to approach the Crane-issue from an unexpected angle; they might be able to find information we wouldn't, and provide it to us in exchange for some other favor, or in order to try and minimize strife between the Clans if they believe that doing so would allow us to defuse Lion-Crane tensions.
In the long-term and speaking about Asako Tani specifically, I think it would be a good move to try and befriend her. Not for a court-romance, but a simple platonic friendship. We share an interest in scholastic topics that should provide enough common ground for interesting debates, and already made a fairly good initial impression, I'd like to think. Aside from gaining us a potential ally at this court, it shouldn't be too difficult to continue the friendship past this Winter Court (via constant exchange of letters and the like), which could net us a permanent contact in the Phoenix Clan, and amongst their courtiers. That could raise our value in our superiors' eyes, since having another source of information on another Clan is always valuable for intelligence gathering, even if she's likely to only share some superficial gossip.
 
I'm really leery of trying to get involved with Doji Mariko at this point, because while it might help us establish what's going on there, we are very much advancing into the unknown. This is a plan that could cause her death, but given how little we know right now, it's also a plan that could result in our death because we're going in completely blind. For all we know she's a Shadownspawn infiltrator. Even if she's not, well, there's a Daidoji and Kakita who could make objection.
 
[] Save xp

gman391 said:
Why are we saving the xp exactly? like what are we saving for?
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Because expenditures are not self-evidently a good thing and waiting to spend intelligently and adaptively is better than blind commitment.

E- But now that we know...

[x] Reflexes 3
 
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In terms of helping people to decide what, if anything, to buy with their XP, I'll go ahead and say that Matsu Ginwei has not committed seppuku. A casual enquiry with any of the Lion samurai you encounter reveals that he's been stationed in one of the watchtowers in Shiro Matsu's perimeter, which is an unpleasant (it's fucking cold) but necessary duty. The general assumption is that this is to give him time to recover from his wounds and to reflect upon his conduct.

The Lion are willing to tell you this because it is only natural that a samurai be interested in his opponents after a tournament, and you and your boss have impressed them so far.

On a more general XP-related note, saving your points until you know what you want is a perfectly valid choice. However I am unlikely to allow you to buy skills or upgrade abilities on the spot when they become relevant - if you need to sneak away from a homocidal samurai, attempting to suddenly develop three ranks in stealth will be frowned upon.
 
Maugan Ra said:
In terms of helping people to decide what, if anything, to buy with their XP, I'll go ahead and say that Matsu Ginwei has not committed seppuku. A casual enquiry with any of the Lion samurai you encounter reveals that he's been stationed in one of the watchtowers in Shiro Matsu's perimeter, which is an unpleasant (it's fucking cold) but necessary duty. The general assumption is that this is to give him time to recover from his wounds and to reflect upon his conduct.

The Lion are willing to tell you this because it is only natural that a samurai be interested in his opponents after a tournament, and you and your boss have impressed them so far.

On a more general XP-related note, saving your points until you know what you want is a perfectly valid choice. However I am unlikely to allow you to buy skills or upgrade abilities on the spot when they become relevant - if you need to sneak away from a homocidal samurai, attempting to suddenly develop three ranks in stealth will be frowned upon.
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Ah. Useful. So... he's still out there. He's not back *here*. He could hike back reasonably easy on a day off, though, if he gets one (or even staying up one day, if he's on the night shift).

Yeah... the "stick him in the Tower until he cools off" trick *might* work.

Bah. I don't like it. (int 5... so shiny....), but earlier logic holds. Vote change

[x] Reflexes 3
 
I think the "Reflexes 3" XP train is a silly one to hop on at this time, we beat Matsu Ginwei without it. Certainly Reflexes 3 would have made it easier but it wasn't and isn't necessary.

Personally I feel that we should be spending XP on skills that we are likely to need to solve the Crane question and participate competently in the upcoming events.

[X] Save XP

Nix's Warden said:
How much XP would it take to level up Investigation?
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Raising skills costs XP equal to the target level (working from memory because my books are at home).
 
The Laurent said:
I don't think he's that much of a threat, and remember he needs a REASON to challenge us.
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Yes... but he doesn't need a reason to just try to kill us. He's already burned honor on us multiple times. Moral decay is a very real thing in this system, and there are things out there that prey on it. Even if he has enough honor left to not want to just set it all on fire, all he needs is enough justification to get away with it after the fact.

kyuden said:
I think the "Reflexes 3" XP train is a silly one to hop on at this time, we beat Matsu Ginwei without it. Certainly Reflexes 3 would have made it easier but it wasn't and isn't necessary.

Personally I feel that we should be spending XP on skills that we are likely to need to solve the Crane question and participate competently in the upcoming events.
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We beat him without it... but it wasn't a sure thing. We were seriously concerned about losing. if he fights us again, he will be seeking to kill us, and none of our social skills can do squat to prevent him. Given that, reflexes 3 and kenjutsu 3 are entirely reasonable investments in making sure that we live long enough to make good use of our other investments - and now's the time to take them because we'll want to be *sure* we have them when we need them - which could be at any point after he finished recovering. It'll also help us out with sparring diplomacy, assuming we decide to do that (and at this point, I really think we should).

Dark as Silver said:
Next time we will only have one Void point, he on the other hand may use his.
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Thankfully, he's unlikely to attack us immediately (he needs to wait for his wounds to heal) which means that we'll have time to recover void points. However, you are correct that he's highly likely to use his own... and may put in a bit more of his own training (and/or dark pacts with the corruptive forces of the Shadowlands) as well.
 
While he could decide to try shanking us in a dark alley, will we be going down any dark alleys in the near future? If he tries it almost anywhere in Shiro Matsu we're not going to be alone, and I'd think even his fellow Lion's would help defend us from a berserk murderer.
 
Jaertin said:
While he could decide to try shanking us in a dark alley, will we be going down any dark alleys in the near future? If he tries it almost anywhere in Shiro Matsu we're not going to be alone, and I'd think even his fellow Lion's would help defend us from a berserk murderer.
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yeah... but if he shouts something about honor first, they might be uncertain enough for a few combat rounds to pass, which could be sufficient. Also, i don't know about you, but I'm not intending to let this guy keep me away from the town.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Next time we will only have one Void point, he on the other hand may use his.
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In the combat we both used a void point, considering the time that will pass between the duel and him "possibly" turning up and trying to shank us we will get the void point back.
Sirrocco said:
We beat him without it... but it wasn't a sure thing. We were seriously concerned about losing. if he fights us again, he will be seeking to kill us, and none of our social skills can do squat to prevent him. Given that, reflexes 3 and kenjutsu 3 are entirely reasonable investments in making sure that we live long enough to make good use of our other investments - and now's the time to take them because we'll want to be *sure* we have them when we need them - which could be at any point after he finished recovering.
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You are basically saying that we should spend the XP against the possibility of Matsu Ginwei turning up and trying to attack us in a dishonourable manner, which I think is a bit of a stretch. I don't think the Lion will let him back anytime soon, and if he does come back I expect to see more provocations and bullying (in line with his previous attempts) rather than straight out attacks. I don't think he's fallen so far as to abandon his honour (yet).

Sirrocco said:
It'll also help us out with sparring diplomacy, assuming we decide to do that (and at this point, I really think we should).
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This is (in my opinion) the only valid reason to spend it, but I don't think it is a better choice than:
Artisan (Poetry) - which can assist in the Festival of the River of Stars and Winding River Banquet.
Investigation - which is useful in most social settings, in helping solve the Crane question, in the Festival of Lights (spot the spotters so we can avoid them) and in spotting the hypothetical homicidal Matsu Ginwei before he strikes us from ambush.
Stealth - useful for the Festival of Lights and generally useful for being an unobtrusive Scorpion.
Calligraphy - useful for the Festival of the River of Stars and is the skill for breaking ciphers (which may be useful in the future).

It's not that I don't want to buy Reflexes 3, it's just that I don't think we should buy it yet.
 
[x] Save XP

In regards to our plans for the next few days, I'm mostly fine with Sirrocco's plan/outline, though I think we should also try to stay in contact with Asako Tani. She might be a helpful ally for us here at court, and a useful contact/friend overall in the long run.

Though, it's somewhat weird, because every time I read/write her name I have to think of Ahsoka Tano. :confused:
 
kyuden said:
You are basically saying that we should spend the XP against the possibility of Matsu Ginwei turning up and trying to attack us in a dishonourable manner, which I think is a bit of a stretch. I don't think the Lion will let him back anytime soon, and if he does come back I expect to see more provocations and bullying (in line with his previous attempts) rather than straight out attacks. I don't think he's fallen so far as to abandon his honour (yet).
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That's very close to what I'm saying. I'm saying that there are a variety of low-level reasons to invest in every stat, but that there are more significant, immediate reasons that push it over the edge, and that this is the one that pushes it over the edge. I find it almost entirely implausible that he would seek to provoke us. He knows he'd lose the provocation game. He will come at us with intent to kill (with or without flimsy justification) or not at all. I'm not even saying that there's a better than even chance that this will happen. What I'm actually saying is that if it does happen, it will come out of nowhere and it will absolutely be a life or death situation. It is a real and plausible threat of death... and that's important enough that it's worth a bit of investment.

kyuden said:
It's not that I don't want to buy Reflexes 3, it's just that I don't think we should buy it yet.
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Matsu Ginwei starts being a meaningful threat pretty much immediately after he finished healing, which will happen in a matter of days. All he has to do is come back in town on a night off, get drunk, and decide that killing us will solve all his problems. If we're going to buy it, now is absolutely the time.

We can afford to be merely passable on poetry and calligraphy for the moment, and we're pretty much there already. We don't really need stealth at all.
 
We've had this conversation before, in regards to experiences expenditures, so I suppose if you--general you, here--had an opinion on it as of last time, then there's not much reason to rehash the conversation.

Edited my post to vote for increasing Reflexes. This will put us within 4 Insight of our next School Technique--which we ostensibly will learn from Bayushi Kimiko--and I find myself musing[1]​ about whether or not we should purchase a bunch of Rank 1s in skills to reach for it. At present I don't really see a reason to (read: no, no we shouldn't but let's be happy when we get there through the power of socialization), given we'll get to it naturally but the thought keeps me occupied :V


[1] A dangerous thing as we all know by now.
 
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Sirrocco said:
What I'm actually saying is that if it does happen, it will come out of nowhere and it will absolutely be a life or death situation. It is a real and plausible threat of death... and that's important enough that it's worth a bit of investment.
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This is probably worth stressing. In L5R, increased ranks and experience don't grant you extra hit points, and fights can be incredibly deadly. This is by design - your average combat will last somewhere between one and three rounds, and it is entirely possible to die or be effectively defeated by a single blow.

I will make no comment about the likelihood of Matsu Ginwei coming back and trying to kill you. I will point out that 'We beat him once, thus he is not a threat' is a terrible assumption to base your plans around. Combat is always going to be dangerous, and even a peasant with a club could do you in if they ambush you in the right situation. While you're naked and unarmed in the bath, for example.
 
Maugan Ra said:
This is probably worth stressing. In L5R, increased ranks and experience don't grant you extra hit points, and fights can be incredibly deadly. This is by design - your average combat will last somewhere between one and three rounds, and it is entirely possible to die or be effectively defeated by a single blow.

I will make no comment about the likelihood of Matsu Ginwei coming back and trying to kill you. I will point out that 'We beat him once, thus he is not a threat' is a terrible assumption to base your plans around. Combat is always going to be dangerous, and even a peasant with a club could do you in if they ambush you in the right situation. While you're naked and unarmed in the bath, for example.
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My own argument is I don't think he's in some death spiral of 'and now I shall become the darkness and destroy the last shreds of my honor to kill you', and so I think Reflexes 3 will be wasted, unless it has some non-combat use. I mean, there are worse things to do than wasting 12 XP at a time where we need to upgrade our social stats and investigation for the sort of stuff that Sirroco's write-in covers.

Probably, but give me a moment to think of them.
 
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