In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

"Very interesting. Soshi-san, care to make a wager? I stake right of first refusal to the Scorpion on one year's output from the Three Hills iron mine, and say that Matsu Ketsui will be victorious."
What does right of first refusal mean in this context? Do we still set the price, but just have to offer to sell to the Crab first? The only thing we might lose then, is time while the answer from the Crab comes, and iron isn't a commodity that is expected to move fast, nor does it deteriorate fast if stored properly, so even that isn't a big loss.

I'm leaning towards politely turning her down. In addition to what Sirrocco said, she's moving our interactions into her field of expertise, which is disadvantageous for us.

Maybe something like:

"It would not do for a samurai to speculate about his lord's odds in battle."

We decline that we can't bet on this fight, but for a reason that doesn't apply to her. Probably needs some fleshing out. Trying to redirect the conversation to another topic, for instance.
 
What does right of first refusal mean in this context? Do we still set the price, but just have to offer to sell to the Crab first? The only thing we might lose then, is time while the answer from the Crab comes, and iron isn't a commodity that is expected to move fast, nor does it deteriorate fast if stored properly, so even that isn't a big loss.
Actually, I think that's *her* offer/stake on the bet. Ie, if Katsui loses, then for one year the Crab Clan will always offer the iron produced in that particular mine to sell to the Scorpion first, and can only sell it to others if the Scorpion declines to buy.
 
The problem with this offer is that we don't know the amount produced, the price or what se could offer her that has the same worth.

We could try to defuse saying that we are a yojimbo, that we didn't have any equal stake to wager at this time and that we feel it would be bad faith to bet against our Lord, but would gladly wager later on a game that we are playing, like go.

Lets try to change the battlefield and allow us to get more information on the wager itself.
 
If we want to marry Matsu Ketsui and become Nimuro's stepfather then this is definitely the way to go. :V

I continue to be amused that this is apparently a thing that people want. I made a lot of general predictions when writing out my notes for this arc, and attempting to marry Matsu Ketsui was in precisely none of them.

Also, @Maugan Ra - an etiquette check. You've already mentioned that going for a dalliance with more than one woman at a time is a poor choice politically. What about just flirting with a number of different women? What would be the implications if it got out (as it inevitably would) that we were flirting with more than one at a time?

Etiquette 6k3 = 48 (and I bet that roll isn't coming up again).

So, here it is important to make a distinction between pursuing a romantic affair with someone and simply flirting.

Attempting to have affairs with multiple samurai-ko at the same time is a terrible idea. It makes you out to be faithless and untrustworthy, suggests that you routinely betray your commitments, and offers insult to all parties involved. Considering that every samurai is trained and willing to kill, this is almost certainly going to end poorly for you.

It is a slightly less terrible idea to begin an affair with one person and then change to having an affair with someone else later on. That preserves your general reputation, but magnifies the insult against the person you drop - if that's the Crane, it becomes an open invitation for Kakita duelists to try and kill you.

Flirting with a number of different women is politically safe enough. As a Scorpion, it even plays into your image a bit. Now, being known as a habitual flirter will colour people's perceptions of you, but it won't guarantee that they'll be hostile or friendly - it depends very much on the individual and their beliefs.

The real danger is that samurai-ko are not passive actors. They can and will react to someone who flirts with them, and may attempt to pursue further relationship themselves.

@Maugan Ra: Can we get a lore check on the armour of the Golden Samurai? Before we think about the bet we should probably consider the magic armor that's literally centuries old is probably a significant advantage.

You don't know a lot about it - I rolled when putting together the post. It's an awakened artifact, which means it has magical abilities of some kind and may be quasi-sentient. What those abilities actually are, though, you have no idea.

can we get a sage check on the Three Hills Mine?

Knowledge (Geography) 5k4: 14

You've never heard of it, though the Crab are well known to have a large number of iron mines in their territory.

Actually, I think that's *her* offer/stake on the bet. Ie, if Katsui loses, then for one year the Crab Clan will always offer the iron produced in that particular mine to sell to the Scorpion first, and can only sell it to others if the Scorpion declines to buy.

Indeed. Note that this does not compel them to accept any price that the Scorpion might offer, it just allows your Clan to decide if they want it or not.
 
I continue to be amused that this is apparently a thing that people want. I made a lot of general predictions when writing out my notes for this arc, and attempting to marry Matsu Ketsui was in precisely none of them.
Honestly, I don't really get it, and have no intention of pursuing Ketsui romantically. So, it's far from everyone who's interested in that.
 
Honestly, I don't really get it, and have no intention of pursuing Ketsui romantically. So, it's far from everyone who's interested in that.
ditto.

now, what would be a good strategy here?

I would like to get a new meeting from this, as we don't really know what the wager is worth, we can't know if she is insulting us or not.

One thing is that she could be offering us a worthless prize to see what we know or offer her in return.

And the more I think, the I find this to be the probable situation.

The proposal in itself is somewhat unsettling, because if she was selling iron from the Crab' s mines (as she probably is), she wouldn't give a first refusal on it on a wager...

I find that if we took the offer and won, we would discover that the mine is abandoned, cursed or is entering production two years from now.


but even if what she was offering us was worth angering our hosts, we don't really know enough, no to offer some kind of insult.

Better to politely decline it at this time, but use it as a chance for a better wager or future meeting , no?


[X] politely decline the wager at this time and on this matter, as you have no prize of similar wort to offer her.
[X] offer, instead for a future meeting were a good wager for both parts could be reached.
[X] but if she still want a minor side wager, wage on the number of rounds the duel will have.
-[X] if yes, bet a drink or tea in the town
[X] bet low.
 
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Honestly, I don't really get it, and have no intention of pursuing Ketsui romantically. So, it's far from everyone who's interested in that.

My guess is that some of us likes to play with fire. You know you're gonna get burned eventually, but it only makes the play more exciting.

I don't pursue it myself (I'd rather pursuit an affair with the Crane or the Phoenix, actually), but you can't deny its somehow appealing.

...

Now on the vote... Iron is quite valuable in Rokugan since weapons and armor, but is as some of you said. We're only getting the chance to buy iron from those mines in the Crab lands. Thinking that there's a trick in this... I won't jump to this conclusion so eagerly, because why a samurai would like to trick us when this may eventually cause a lost of on due to be deemed as untrustworthy? No one wants that usually, not in time when the Empire needs to rebuild.

If we're gonna decline her offer, it should be because we can't bet against our Lord. Is... Distasteful. This could even be used against us in the future so let's not do this. Yasuki courtiers are famous for being a bunch of bullies, and be sure she'll use this bet to advance her own agenda.

About how to phrase it better, and in a way to change the topic of conversation to something more comfortable for us... Well, is kind of hard to craft a vote while on a phone. :p
 
If we're gonna decline her offer, it should be because we can't bet against our Lord. Is... Distasteful. This could even be used against us in the future so let's not do this. Yasuki courtiers are famous for being a bunch of bullies, and be sure she'll use this bet to advance her own agenda.
We wouldn't be betting against our lord, Crab lady bet that Matsu Ketsui will win, so we would be betting on Bayushi .
 
We wouldn't be betting against our lord, Crab lady bet that Matsu Ketsui will win, so we would be betting on Bayushi .
It's still distasteful to link her glorious battle with an honourable enemy with something so... mercantile.

(Rokugani culture, and the East Asian cultures it's based on did not hold merchants in high esteem. They generally ranked them below peasants.)
 
Well, one possibility we might consider is to wager not on the outcome of the match, but on some other detail of the match, such as how long it will last, whether it will be decided in a single stroke or in an exchange of blades, which body part might be targeted for the cut, that sort of thing.
That would still allow for a wager, but with less of a chance to get us into hot water with either our superior or the Lion, for betting against either.
 
There's a word for people who jump right into wagers with complete strangers. That word is "sucker". (Synonyms being patsy, rube, greenhorn, and broke).

I think getting in a little bit tighter with the Crabs isn't worth a hit to our honor, and potentially pissing off the Lions, our boss, and the Cranes.

[X] Decline to wager. Tactfully.
 
[X] Decline to wager. Tactfully.
-[X] "It would not do for a samurai to speculate about his lord's odds in battle."

We don't know how much a first refusal to the iron of the mine is worth, so we really shouldn't start betting about it.
 
We should probably phrase it differently; that could be interpreted to "sounds like we lack faith in our lord."

Particularly since Yasuki tend to brute force conversations.
 
Given that having our honour get too high might have repercussions with our clan, is taking a hit to it really something to fear? I'm more worried about gambling because I'm not sure we have the authority to gamble with the resources we'd need to stake to match the wager.
 
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I continue to be amused that this is apparently a thing that people want. I made a lot of general predictions when writing out my notes for this arc, and attempting to marry Matsu Ketsui was in precisely none of them.
It's pretty obvious she's tsun for our boss anyways :V

I still don't think we should take the bet, partly because i have no idea what the right of first refusal is.
 
The Right of First Refusal
is a contractual right that gives its holder the option to enter a business transaction with the owner of something, according to specified terms, before the owner is entitled to enter into that transaction with a third party
-Wikipedia

Essentially Three Hills Iron Mine would have to go
"YOU WANT OUR SHIT?" to the Scorpion first before they could sell elsewhere.
 
Hmm, refusing because we can't get anything of equivalent value can backfire on us if I'm modeling this correctly. While it allow us an out of this conversation it either paint us as "too low ranked to have relevant negotiations", or worse yet, if rather unlikely, the Scorpion clan as weak and poor to be point of not being able to match such bet without overly worrying about it.
 
Well, so far we have all of 3/4 votes, which all indicate a result of 'decline the wager'. I can write a post on that, and probably will before too long, but I'll hold the vote open for a couple of hours to see if anyone else wants to chime in.
 
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