In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

A Nation's Virtue is right in this. Agility and intelligence are two unbalanced, dead-useful skills. And our awareness is already 4. Willpower should be raised, but it is distinctly lower tier than either of the above. That Agility also ups the Killy part of our portfolio, is honestly just a useful afterthought to our courtier bushi. Finally, remember that no one likes the scorpion, and as a bushi, we will have to personally answer any insult to ourselves and issue challenges for insults made to us and ours in our presence.

Dichotomy ya'll!
 
I'd much, much rather be able to blow away investigation rolls guaranteed than be better at fight when we have Fightiest Bayushi-sama leading our delegation.

Because, you know. Investimagating shit is our role here, just as Kimoko kills shit and Hanzo tries desperately to not set off his curse.


He didn't have someone capable of fighting Matsu-sama to a standstill in his camp.


I really feel the need to point out that, as a bushi, we can't have someone else answer insults to us. Killy Kimiko does nothing for us if we have to defend our honor.
 
Also...I'm not going to say we should be trying to turn Naoto into a murder machine that can go one on one with Matsu Kakita Slayer over there, but if we do manage to dig up evidence that this whole thing was someone playing the Lion for suckers, thus pissing all over her Shining Moment of Glory, Naoto is not going to be one of her favorite people in the world.
 
Also...I'm not going to say we should be trying to turn Naoto into a murder machine that can go one on one with Matsu Kakita Slayer over there, but if we do manage to dig up evidence that this whole thing was someone playing the Lion for suckers, thus pissing all over her Shining Moment of Glory, Naoto is not going to be one of her favorite people in the world.
We'll probably end up getting both, really. I'd rather get Int first, gather our findings for Ikoma-sama, then double check everything with a fine tooth comb until we've had enough Adventure to get our duelling up to scratch.
 
Hmmm.

Which Skill is the relevant one for an "As I am to duel Matsu Kakita Slayer Thursday, I will poison her to death Tuesday" roll?
 
We are surrounded by Matsu. By extension, if we are the fightiest bushi around, then an entire family of Lion has failed utterly at their sacred mission. Additionally, *we* will have failed utterly at our duty, since we'll have been obsessing so much about our combat stats that we failed to actually focus on the things we were sent here to do. Let's look at the skill and stat improvements we've made since game start.

Social:
Awareness 3->4
Artisan (Poetry) 0->1
Calligraphy 0->1
Courtier 2->3
Etiquette 2->3
Sincerity 1->2
Commerce 0->1

Military:
Reflexes 2->4***
kenjutusu 2->3
iajutsu 1->3
Battle 1->2
Gained kata
Gained 2nd rank technique

Lore/investigative/intellectual:
Investigation 1(?)->3

/**********/

Now, I look at this, and I do *not* see "We've neglected our bushi skills so - clearly they must be top priority." I agree. We should be balanced in our development. So far, the development hasn't been all that balanced. Now, once we buy up Perception 3 and int 5 (and maybe Go 3 and a point each in a few non-lore things like medicine and cryptography), I'll be perfectly happy to go back and round out more combat bits - Earth to 3, Agility to 4, Void to 3, strength to 3 for the water rank. Sure. I just see that there's an area we've been neglecting, and it isn't combat. Note that we've had one actual fight, so far. Note that we've seen a significant increase in combat ability since that fight. Relax a little.
 
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Honestly I'd prefer void. Void is useful, void helps us be even faster (You can spend a void for +10 to your init for a skirmish) call raises, duel better. makes center stance useful, and pumps up our insight and is cheaper than Intelligence 5 at this point and only 2 points more than agility 4
 
The point you were making was in relation to the use of bugei skills.

'It wasn't a fight' is irrelevant if the skill challenge required the use of the bugei skills in question.
It's not at all irrelevant. I'm making the argument that we don't need to massively broaden our bushi capabilities. There are or have been, as far as I can tell, three major arguments in favor of focusing on our combat abilities.

- First, that we're a bushi, and there's something fundamentally wrong and shameful with being a bushi and not being competent with the blade. Given that we now have agility 3, reflexes 4, kenjutsu 3, and Iajutsu 3 (plus crab hands, our Rank 2 technique, and a usefully applicable kata), I think I can assert fairly that we are no longer a shame to our station as far as combat goes.

- Second, that the Grand Character Plan was that he was that of warrior-sage, and that we shouldn't neglect the warrior in favor of the sage. To that, I point to my earlier bit about where our development resources have actually gone, and assert that we shouldn't neglect the sage in favor of the warrior.

- Third, that this is Rokugan, and that we're likely to get into fights to the death, and that, as such, our combat ability is woefully insufficient to ensure our survival. This is being used as an argument that we should be investing broadly. To this I point out that we've gotten in very few such fights thus far. We've had one actual fight that might have resulted in our death, and all of our combat investment has been *since* then. We've had two fights where it was actually of benefit to us that we lost, and the important part was how we sold it... not a case where massively buffing our combat abilities would have been particularly useful. We've had one skill challenge where we were able to apply Reflexes and Kenjutsu to the task of saving Otomo-sama... but given that that was an assassin striking from the shadows and we were surrounded by Lion samurai, that wouldn't have resulted in a fight, and there wasn't really any chance of it resulting in our deaths. Thus, I assert that it remains as the QM has told us (repeatedly, upon being asked for reassurances) that it would - that true combat would be relatively uncommon, and would be something that, almost always, we could avoid by properly applying other skills.

I hold, then, that none of these three arguments is particularly compelling at this time. I have yet to see any other major arguments for investing heavily in combat ability. I'm not saying that these things are utterly useless, but they're not being presented on a platform of being non-useless. They're being presented on a platform of being highly important, to the point of needing to consume all or almost all of our exp budget for the forseeable future.
 
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It's not at all irrelevant. I'm making the argument that we don't need to massively broaden our bushi capabilities. There are or have been, as far as I can tell, three major arguments in favor of focusing on our combat abilities.

- First, that we're a bushi, and there's something fundamentally wrong and shameful with being a bushi and not being competent with the blade. Given that we now have agility 3, reflexes 4, kenjutsu 3, and Iajutsu 3 (plus crab hands, our Rank 2 technique, and a usefully applicable kata), I think I can assert fairly that we are no longer a shame to our station as far as combat goes.

- Second, that the Grand Character Plan was that he was that of warrior-sage, and that we shouldn't neglect the warrior in favor of the sage. To that, I point to my earlier bit about where our development resources have actually gone, and assert that we shouldn't neglect the sage in favor of the warrior.

- Third, that this is Rokugan, and that we're likely to get into fights to the death, and that, as such, our combat ability is woefully insufficient to ensure our survival. This is being used as an argument that we should be investing broadly. To this I point out that we've gotten in very few such fights thus far. We've had one actual fight that might have resulted in our death, and all of our combat investment has been *since* then. We've had two fights where it was actually of benefit to us that we lost, and the important part was how we sold it... not a case where massively buffing our combat abilities would have been particularly useful. We've had one skill challenge where we were able to apply Reflexes and Kenjutsu to the task of saving Otomo-sama... but given that that was an assassin striking from the shadows and we were surrounded by Lion samurai, that wouldn't have resulted in a fight, and there wasn't really any chance of it resulting in our deaths. Thus, I assert that it remains as the QM has told us (repeatedly, upon being asked for reassurances) that it would - that true combat would be relatively uncommon, and would be something that, almost always, we could avoid by properly applying other skills.

I hold, then, that none of these three arguments is particularly compelling at this time. I have yet to see any other major arguments for investing heavily in combat ability. I'm not saying that these things are utterly useless, but they're not being presented on a platform of being non-useless. They're being presented on a platform of being highly important, to the point of needing to consume all or almost all of our exp budget for the forseeable future.

You're going off onto a massive spiel here when it isn't warranted.

You made an example of how we've only been in one fight, which was wrong.
 
You're going off onto a massive spiel here when it isn't warranted.

You made an example of how we've only been in one fight, which was wrong.
I'll admit it. Technically, you're correct about one thing. Technically, we'd been in three fights... and due to the fact that we didn't really have anything on the line in two of them, and were only in real danger if things went utterly pear-shaped, I had straight-up forgotten about two of them. @Wade Garrett corrected me on that point, and I didn't argue it for those two. I argued their relevance, but not their existence or nature. However, you're letting your rhetoric show here. My massive spiel was in response to this.

The point you were making was in relation to the use of bugei skills.

'It wasn't a fight' is irrelevant if the skill challenge required the use of the bugei skills in question.

The only thing you reference here was the skill challenge itself, which was not a fight. At no point did anyone check for initiative, take a combat action, or anything else associated with fights in L5R. You didn't even argue that it was a fight. You argued that my point (about it being a skill challenge) was *irrelevant*. Thus, I went into my massive spiel to demonstrate, with a degree of conclusiveness, the *relevance* of my point. Given that you appear to have a willingness to make inapplicable arguments in pursuit of your goals, I believe you've demonstrated that being comprehensive was indeed warranted.
 
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Look people we just got competent at a lot of Bushi skills. But we are never going to be in a position not to get killed if we get into a duel to the death. We just made the odds a lot more even. Dice are DIce, just ask Kakita. With that in mind, and Sirroccos nice breakdown of our spending so far, here is what we know:

Getting Int 5 would make Sage go from 5k4, to 6k5 on all non-forbidden lore. That is very nice.
Our Investigation/Perception rolls is 5k2. If we want to do a lot more of this magistrate stuff, we might want to improve Perception to 3, but it is not mandatory.
Void 3 is Void 3. Its good. Enough said.

Our goals + upcoming events:
-Genji still likely wants to know if his beef is with these couple of Crane or with the Clan champion, that will not have changed. Our job just got a lot harder.

-Generaly improve relations with the Matsu while infiltrating their infrastructure. The scribes + Scorpion magistrates invited over + ninja girl say we are doing ok on that. Keep at it. @Maugan Ra : Someone did invite the magistrates, right?

-Resolve the ongoing heimen situation. Because that is going to take a while.

-15th Day of the Boar-Winding River Banquet.
We get to put to use that Poetry skill we picked up from Doji.

-23rd Day of the Boar: Festival of Lights
A competition of Scouts. We might want to pick up stuff like stealth 1, Athletics 1, or Hunting 1 for this one, if we feel those are neccesary.(So we do not dishonor ourselves with incompetence)

Since no one has put up a vote yet, let me try:

[X] "Truly today the Heaves have smiled upon the Matsu." Look at Bayushi-sama, and discreetly ask her permission to wade into the Matsu and try and salvage the Scorpions interests from this mess.
 
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