Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X] Sirrocco
In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)
- Location
- Earth
No, i think Doji knows he loves her and accepts that. I think his logic is that if they marry, he will be sent back to the farm to do housework(the common situation in a marriage being the one spouse cares for the homestead-the one with lower rank being him). He likes things they way they are(in this hypothetical situation). He gets to keep traveling with her and protecting her.
Maybe he is looking at us like he wants to kill us merely as an intimidation tactic. He is a duel specialist. Projecting presence is his bread and butter. If he can make us lose face, that would be a win for him. Maybe it is a test. Sirrocco analized it nicely.
I like Siroccos responce but I am not that brave. I am not turning my back on him. He is a trained grown Crane. If he spills blood after being greeted amicably, that is his failure. I am not turning my back on him. Sirroccos response feels like bending over backwards. It is also insulting. We would need to decieve him to pull it off. I do not want to lie to an angry Kakitas face while Doji is there. Hell, just doing Sirroccos vote is a form of running away, as we are letting the full weight of the situation fall on Doji, seemingly abandoning her to Kakita.
Maybe the point about not looking at them gives them more room, but it also impies that they need it. We we asking how we can help, thus assuming he is here on some kind of legitimate buisness and giving him a perfectly honorable out. I do not want to draw my blade, espetially mid-lie, even if we are turning our back on him. He might just assume it is a Dirty Scorpion Trick.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
This is Rokugan. Saying "I did not mean to give offense" about x action is practically obligatory and carries no inherent admission of wrongdoing.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But it's not a lie, in any meaningful way. It's quite clever, actually, and the more I think about it, the more I'm sure we wouldn't just get tossed in here with no way out. It's balls-y but we're nothing if not that; and if he DOES attack us for some God forsaken reason then, hey, we would hear him coming because he's got a way to go. I think it's about the best we can do without totally dismissing that he might be here to kill our ass 100%.
[X] Sirrocco
[X] Sirrocco
A Nation's Virtue
南國山河南帝居
*our plan*
No, no it isn't. And we are frankly still a bushi even if we've been getting non-combat stats (which is frankly how you increase in Insight rank in this game. You can't neglect mental stats even as a warrior or physical ones as a courtier if you're hoping to grab your next Technique). When we're not providing information support to our superiors, our role will be defending Scorpion interests with our sword since that's what we were trained to do.
You also seem to think that Int 5 is a worthwhile buy. While it is, as a bushi Agility 4 is far more valuable for multiple reasons.
-Int 5 is a 20% increase in our lore skills vs Agility 4 being a 25% increase in our skill with overall weaponry.
-It increases our Fire Ring to 4 which grants us another 10 Insight, which gets us our next Technique
-It is the Trait off of which dancing and various musical instruments key off of, meaning it is a worthwhile investment to show that we are a cultured samurai. Forgery is also something that keys off of this Trait, and I honestly feel a few ranks in this skill will pay off in the long run.
-As a bushi, we are inevitably going to get into more fights even if we don't want to. Either other people will attack us or we will be ordered to by our superiors.
Getting high Awareness and Intelligence is all well and good, but neglecting physical stats in exchange is going to bite us in the ass. Even more so because we're a bushi.
[X] Sirrocco
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mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can we not argue about this now, please?
Sirrocco
Pedantic
It would indeed be his failure, but given how he looks, I fully expect him to fail in that way if we merely greet him amicably (unless Doji-sama can talk him down). Having us greet him amicably, and then having Doji-sama talk him down in such a way that we could see it happening would be shaming him in front of his rival. This is unlikely to reduce his desire to kill us.
I honestly believe that we are safer with our back to him than facing him. He's a Kakita in front of his one true love. He'd *much* rather kill us in honorable combat than stab us in the back. Why would he want to stab us in the back?
To be fair, it *is* a Dirty Scorpion Trick. It's not, however, based quite so much on deception as it might seem. Sure, having the deception go off right would be helpful. It throws another layer of WTF into his head, and that's helpful right now. What it really does, though, socially, is offer a paper-thin justification to allow him to regain his On. This is a kindness that people offer one another in the courts of Rokugan, when someone does something that might dishonor them, but their friends are nearby and wish to save them the shame of it. Tactically, yes, it lets us draw our blade, and gets us in a position where we can probable turn back around and respond to his attack before he actually attacks us, if need be.
I don't really see us as "abandoning her to him". He's not a threat to her in the same way he is to us (probably). Also, she's technically his superior, and he's jsut screwed up. This is much more a "letting them handle it in-house".
Oh, and *technically* we're not lying to him. We're expressing surprise at his presence, and then asking reasonable questions. Our actions and tone heavily imply things that simply aren't true, but it's not actually a lie.
Still, you're quite correct that it's a Dirty Scorpion Trick, and there's a good chance that he'll see it for exactly what it is. That's a downside (a more convincing Dirty Scorpion trick would have been much better) but you work with what you have.
- Location
- Earth
The bad response is not him attacking us. It is him shouting COWARD if it does not off put him enough, or Doji does not manage to stop him. He can claim we saw the challange and fled it. Which is what we are doing. Then he can keep pileing on the insults until we are less then a dog in Doji-san eyes, or we are forced to challange him to a duel. Sirrocco relies upon Doji calming him down. My plan relies upon us both calming him down if Doji joins in.
Im taking it to PMs with @A Nation's Virtue.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Okay, if he starts launching insults our way and just keeps going, then yes, eventually there's going to be a duel. At that point, though, we'll still have time to reposition ourselves, and our sword will still be out. The physical maneuvers cost us nothing (and allow us to have our blade drawn, saving us that simple action). The fact that it's insults rather than a physical attack, though, is even more of an argument to not just greet him in a friendly fashion. "Assert vile insults" flows very naturally in response to a friendly greeting from someone you hate, especially when you are half-expecting it, and intend to issue said insults.
I am not at any point claiming that my vote is Completely Awesome, or that there could not be a better one out there. I just think it's more likely to salvage the situation than the default friendly greeting. Sadly, I don't think that's a particularly high bar.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, that's half the point of being a PC in Rokugan. It's never about getting things perfect or entirely 'risk-free', it's usually just about flying by the seat of your pants. "A samurai is never more than three feet from death" is an old saying for more than one reason 
- Location
- Earth
@Sirrocco: I want us to greet him and take him seriouslly because we never did that. You are dismissing him. He is looking at you with murder in his eyes, and you turn your back on him and ask him about some invisble threat. I think you might be able to stun him out of his rage, and then Doji might be able to calm him down, but that is an awfull risk to take.
We can allways turn away after greeting him. He can ask us for some privacy. I am just asking we treat him as a normal samurai and aford him basic coutesy. I am asking we behave honorable, which has gotten us out of so many messes. Yes it is a risk. At this point everything is a risk.
So far he is accross the clearing from us. We are not at risk from being immediatly stabbed. Just stabbed soon if we do not play this right. We do not need our hand on a swort, yet. That is escalation.
Of course us insulting him, which is what you are doing, you are just hopeing he does not realize it, would result in either him insulting back, or demanding honor. Let us not be the ones to start this feude. If we do not insult him first, he will not insult us before Doji. He is a Crane, doing so would mean accepting loss in the field of Court. I think his whole pressure shtick is to make us make a mistake, he can then call us on to win. So give him no rope to hang us with. Calm, collected, and courtious. That should be our answer. As if we, were the Crane.
We can allways turn away after greeting him. He can ask us for some privacy. I am just asking we treat him as a normal samurai and aford him basic coutesy. I am asking we behave honorable, which has gotten us out of so many messes. Yes it is a risk. At this point everything is a risk.
So far he is accross the clearing from us. We are not at risk from being immediatly stabbed. Just stabbed soon if we do not play this right. We do not need our hand on a swort, yet. That is escalation.
Of course us insulting him, which is what you are doing, you are just hopeing he does not realize it, would result in either him insulting back, or demanding honor. Let us not be the ones to start this feude. If we do not insult him first, he will not insult us before Doji. He is a Crane, doing so would mean accepting loss in the field of Court. I think his whole pressure shtick is to make us make a mistake, he can then call us on to win. So give him no rope to hang us with. Calm, collected, and courtious. That should be our answer. As if we, were the Crane.
- Location
- London, England
While I'm not going to weigh in on the business of how people choose to spend their XP, I'll note that Naoto has actually already passed the Insight requirement for his second Technique. He hasn't got it on his sheet yet because he needs to actually be trained in it, which Kimoko will handle at the opportune moment.
What I'm saying is, you've got yourself a training montage coming up, courtesy of Drill-Sergeant Bayushi 'Utterly batshit' Kimoko.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Where are you reading that I'm insulting him?@Sirrocco: I want us to greet him and take him seriouslly because we never did that. You are dismissing him. He is looking at you with murder in his eyes, and you turn your back on him and ask him about some invisble threat. I think you might be able to stun him out of his rage, and then Doji might be able to calm him down, but that is an awfull risk to take.
We can allways turn away after greeting him. He can ask us for some privacy. I am just asking we treat him as a normal samurai and aford him basic coutesy. I am asking we behave honorable, which has gotten us out of so many messes. Yes it is a risk. At this point everything is a risk.
So far he is accross the clearing from us. We are not at risk from being immediatly stabbed. Just stabbed soon if we do not play this right. We do not need our hand on a swort, yet. That is escalation.
Of course us insulting him, which is what you are doing, you are just hopeing he does not realize it, would result in either him insulting back, or demanding honor. Let us not be the ones to start this feude. If we do not insult him first, he will not insult us before Doji. He is a Crane, doing so would mean accepting loss in the field of Court. I think his whole pressure shtick is to make us make a mistake, he can then call us on to win. So give him no rope to hang us with. Calm, collected, and courtious. That should be our answer. As if we, were the Crane.
- Openly, I'm acting as if he is a competent and dutiful bodyguard to his Lord - even taking his concern as strong evidence that I should be instantly concerned and react accordingly
- More secretly, I'm clearly reacting to him as a threat, while *also* offering him an honorable way out. Neither of these is dismissive, or insulting. It is, in a way, both respectful and courteous (though also clearly very Scorpion).
Also, it would eb escalation if we had a sword out and were pointing it at him. Having our sword out and (putatively) offering to wield it beside him in battle is not escalation in anything like the same way.
Still, we have two different people with very different ideas of what this would mean in the courts of Rokugan. Also, we have a pretty impressive skill in etiquette. @Maugan Ra - could we please have an etiquette check on the social implications of the vote I have proposed?
- Location
- Spain
[x] Allow yourself to show surprise on your face and in your voice at seeing him.
[x] "Kakita-san! Is something wrong? Is Doji-sama in danger?"
[x] Move clear of Doji Mariko, drawing your blade and turning, so as to face directly away from Kakita Sekawa with Doji Mariko behind you. Act as if you believe the Kakita to be reacting to a threat on the far side of you, and you are moving to assist him in defending her. Who knows? It's faintly possible that he might be. There are shadowlands creatures that can fly and/or climb sheer mountain faces, after all.
[x] "Kakita-san! Is something wrong? Is Doji-sama in danger?"
[x] Move clear of Doji Mariko, drawing your blade and turning, so as to face directly away from Kakita Sekawa with Doji Mariko behind you. Act as if you believe the Kakita to be reacting to a threat on the far side of you, and you are moving to assist him in defending her. Who knows? It's faintly possible that he might be. There are shadowlands creatures that can fly and/or climb sheer mountain faces, after all.
- Location
- Earth
Let me point it out.
Now, I may be wrong, but that, to me, reads as if he is looking at us with murder in his eyes. This means he is close enough for us to see that, and for him to see our response to him projecting murder. Rember, iajutsu expert. He reads tense moments for a living. And your response is: We did not expect you(even though, as far as I can tell IC we did expect him, if not here and now.)
Then you pretend to misunderstand, and pretend to assume he is not directing his murderous intent at us. He sees that, and then we turn our back to him? He has just been dismised as a threat. And that? That is an insult. You are blatantly trying to manipulate him.
Is this a scenario you consider possible, or am I just blowing smoke?
EDIT: "&%"/&%$ Bandwagon is up. I'm off to sleep. Hope we are still alive when I wake up.
Also? This Kakita shit? I called it. Told you someone would take a shot if we presented this opportunity. Good night everyone.
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- Location
- London, England
Etiquette/Awareness 7k4 = 47
Right now, the only error that Kakita Sekawa has committed by court standards is allowing his On to drop. The kind of emotion visible in his eyes is far beyond what he should be showing to anyone outside of his immediate family. He has his hand on his sword, but technically that's not actually a problem, since you're in Shiro Matsu and he's a Kakita - this is always going to be hostile territory for his family.
In addition to that, Doji Mariko is of his Clan and his direct superior. Allowing the Crane to handle this 'in-house' while you avert your eyes is the polite thing to do.
Neither Mariko or Sekawa are likely to believe that you genuinely think he's glaring at something behind you. In Rokugan, however, even the most blatant lying is acceptable if it is done in order to allow another samurai to save face, and the proper response to someone getting utterly smashed and singing in the street is to pretend that you can't see them and never mention it in the future.
Your proposed vote, therefore, is perfectly acceptable and indeed even honourable, because it allows the Crane as a whole and Sekawa in particular a chance to save face and pretend that nothing happened. By the rules of etiquette, it's a decent enough choice, and if it seems a little shaky that can be put down to your sudden need to invent an excuse for your fellow samurai on the spot.
You have no idea how it will go down with Kakita Sekawa in particular, however, because you don't know what he's like as a person.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
[x] Scirocco
- Location
- United States
[x] Sirocco
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- Location
- Canada
[X] Sirrocco
With the etiquitte check coming in, it's enough to make me think that this plan is a good idea.
With the etiquitte check coming in, it's enough to make me think that this plan is a good idea.
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mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Who's this Scirocco 