In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

This would lead to Iaijutsu, even if you don't particularly want it to.

Fundamentally, this is because Iaijutsu is what you use for the archetypical duel. Two guys with swords drawn, facing each other down across an empty clearing, trying to guess what their opponent will do and then make the first strike? That would use Iaijutsu. Anything resembling a Mexican standoff (but with swords) uses Iaijutsu.

The only way to make it kenjutsu from the very start would be to draw your sword and then immediately attack him, without any gap between 'I draw my sword' and 'I lunge'.
This is good to know, but it does leave me a bit confused. If Iaijutsu is what you use for the archetypical duel why did we get to use kenjutsu in the tournament against the Lion and the Crab?

Could you clarify just what the conditions are for an Iaijutsu duel, and what conditions are for an kenjutsu duel?

Also, in light of this new information(that if we do not attack immediatly it is iajutsu) I will be changing my vote.

[X]Call out amicably, "Good evening, Kakita-san! How can I help you?" while gently letting go of Mariko. Even if we enjoyed it, it is not proper to show such affection in public.

No apologies. If we do not point out the insult, he or Doji may find it easier to ignore/bypass it. If he asks for an apology we can give one easilly. I'd rather not start with one, since he has yet to speak. Only the guilty apologize in advance.
 
I would vote for Reklaw, if he includes gently letting go. That greating while we are esentially huging Mariko? Bad idea. It is dismisive of him.
 
[X]Call out amicably, "Good evening, Kakita-san! How can I help you?" while gently letting go of Mariko. Even if we enjoyed it, it is not proper to show such affection in public.

This attempts to give him a chance to explain himself/rant angrily about why exactly he wants to kill us, while not giving anything away or escalating the situation. We don't want to mention the duel in case he hasn't heard about it yet, as that'll piss him off even more, making it more likely we get into another duel.

Plus if Mariko isn't trying to screw us over, our acting as the reasonable party at every stage here will greatly help mitigate any fallout from this event.
 
[X] Call out amicably, "Good evening, Kakita-san! How can I help you?" while gently letting go of Mariko. Even if we enjoyed it, it is not proper to show such affection in public.
-[X] Place your own hand on your sword just in case.
 
And as no one put this here.. let me be the first to Avent the possibility that this was accorded between him and Mariko.
No, it has been mentioned as a posiblity. Multiple times. It was even predicted. We just do not belive that to be the case. It is the paranoid Seduce/Execute plan mentioned.

It is just that for it to work, Mariko would have to be a dirty dirty liar to us. And we do not belive that. As far as I can tell how the majority of the voters feel.
 
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[]Call out amicably, "Good evening, Kakita-san! How can I help you?" while gently letting go of Mariko. Even if we enjoyed it, it is not proper to show such affection in public.

I like it. Talking about the duel might throw him off balance, but, thinking about it, you are right and he will probably take it as an insult. Acting in a friendly fashion still might throw him off balance, and this allows us to get a better gauge on the situation without forcing us to reveal any information or committing us to a specific plan of action. If Doji is not involved with this debacle, she might even be able to de-escalate the situation as well.

EDIT: Teaches me not to refresh. Ninja'd on most of that by Hydroplatypus.

EDIT2: Works for me

[X] Sirrocco
 
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[X] Call out amicably, "Good evening, Kakita-san! How can I help you?" while gently letting go of Mariko. Even if we enjoyed it, it is not proper to show such affection in public.
-[X] Place your own hand on your sword just in case.
 
Really? My understanding of the matter is that it's the opposite. Iaijutsu is used when your sword is sheathed and you need to draw and cut at the same time (hence why it's the skill used in duels since you start with sheathed swords), whereas Kenjutsu is for when your sword is already drawn.

I'm referencing the errata/clarification in Imperial Archives for this one. Namely:

The Physical Nature of a Duel:
The ideal form of a duel consists of two duelists facing off, a few paces apart, with their blades sheathed until the moment of the Strike – at which point they leap forward, drawing their blades near-simultaneously. However, a duel does not have to exactly conform to this ideal – for example, many Dragon samurai will start a duel with their swords already drawn, and battlefield duels routinely take place with the characters already having their swords drawn. The one universal principle is that a duel is fought only with swords, and usually the katana. A contest fought with other weapons is not an iaijutsu duel – it is merely a one-on-one skirmish. Mechanically, these physical details make no difference to how an iaijutsu duel is resolved – the same Assessment/Focus/Strike format is followed.

Note that even in a normal duel, if no one manages to hit their opponent in the Strike phase you move onto a normal skirmish using Kenjutsu anyway. If both sides agree to make it a Kenjutsu duel, then you'd skip the whole 'assessment-focus-strike' section.

A trained Kakita, however, is rather unlikely to abandon his greatest strength so easily.
 
Note that even in a normal duel, if no one manages to hit their opponent in the Strike phase you move onto a normal skirmish using Kenjutsu anyway. If both sides agree to make it a Kenjutsu duel, then you'd skip the whole 'assessment-focus-strike' section.

A trained Kakita, however, is rather unlikely to abandon his greatest strength so easily.
So if I am understanding this right, during the tournament, both the Lion we beat, and the Crab we lost to, and us, agreed not to use iajutsu? Had we ran into a Crane later on, we would have opened with iajutsu, and then continued into kenjutsu. Or was it the fact, that someone gave the command "Fight!"?
 
If the physical details don't make a difference to an iajutsu duel, could we have one with the big clubs?
The following is a joke and should not be taken seriously: Do you even read bro?

"The one universal principle is that a duel is fought only with swords, and usually the katana."
That was in Maugan Ra post quote from the Imperial Archives Errata. So no. No clubs.
 
It really depends on the Clan and Daimyo in question. The standard is a straight Iaijutsu duel with katana, yes, but in Crab lands you could could very easily have a duel be done with tetsubo. The contest the Lion held was a one of skill with swords, not dueling in the traditional sense. It was most certainly a duel, but the particulars set by Matsu Ketsui were different because the Lion have their own preferences.

So in the end, dueling is influenced a great deal by the attitudes and culture of each specific Clan.
 
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OK, I think we really need to prioritize combat skills more given the shear number of duels being thrown our way.
@Maugan Ra - is this true? I've been one of the strongest advocates against the "we must sink all of our exp into combat stats all the time if we want to have any hope of living" bloc, and I've been that way in large part because of stuff you've said OOC that led me to believe that we wouldn't be continually getting pushed into fighting for our life, and we could afford to focus more on court skills of various sorts, especially if we didn't sink too many points into combat skills. If this sort of "social challenge or fight for your life" thing is going to be a common event in the plotline, then I'm going to have to regretfully change my stance on this. I don't want to turn Naoto into a tanked-up bushi who happens to be pretty smart and pretty smooth on the side, but at this point it's looking like our best bet for survival.
 
The Archery tournament, probably? I think that is the soonest official event we can use it for. Does Anyone want to specify what the other weapons is? It seems really silly this far in, that we have yet to define it. Do we want it to be something like a Bow(for the ever necessary ranged option), or something like a big tetsubo if we every need massive blunt damage( in case something is resistant to cutting).

@Maugan Ra - is this true? I've been one of the strongest advocates against the "we must sink all of our exp into combat stats all the time if we want to have any hope of living" bloc, and I've been that way in large part because of stuff you've said OOC that led me to believe that we wouldn't be continually getting pushed into fighting for our life, and we could afford to focus more on court skills of various sorts, especially if we didn't sink too many points into combat skills. If this sort of "social challenge or fight for your life" thing is going to be a common event in the plotline, then I'm going to have to regretfully change my stance on this. I don't want to turn Naoto into a tanked-up bushi who happens to be pretty smart and pretty smooth on the side, but at this point it's looking like our best bet for survival.

I think this is uncalled for. We are samurai. Of course we are allways three steps from death. In civlization that means by suicide for shame, or by duel for insults. As long as out social skills are good enough, we need almost never fight. Think about it. The most we brought our clan was not by fighting but by using our heads. We went into this knowing a Kakita was around and in love with her. And we still get a chance to defuse the situation, having never sought him out to clear the air with him. This is merelly our mis-step coming back to bite us.

We never took the time to talk to him. We treated him like an enemy. Someone to work around, not with. Are you then suprised when he comes at us like an enemy? We still need not spill blood, if we are a good enough Courtier, and a wise enough speaker, to find the right words. No one pushed us into this, we jumped at it knowing the risks. It is not fair to blame the GM for something we chose.
 
I think this is uncalled for. We are samurai. Of course we are allways three steps from death. In civlization that means by suicide for shame, or by duel for insults. As long as out social skills are good enough, we need almost never fight.
*tired old adage of how we're a trained warrior in a warrior culture that treats duels to the death as acceptable ways to resolve disputes*

Think about it. The most we brought our clan was not by fighting but by using our heads. We went into this knowing a Kakita was around and in love with her. And we still get a chance to defuse the situation, having never sought him out to clear the air with him. This is merelly our mis-step coming back to bite us.

We never took the time to talk to him. We treated him like an enemy. Someone to work around, not with. Are you then suprised when he comes at us like an enemy? We still need not spill blood, if we are a good enough Courtier, and a wise enough speaker, to find the right words. No one pushed us into this, we jumped at it knowing the risks. It is not fair to blame the GM for something we chose.
We have NEVER treated him like an enemy. We have never interacted with him, and we're not a Courtier. We're a Bushi, unless I missed something in CharGen and we actually voted on becoming a Bayushi Courtier.

I think you're reading too much into Sirrocco's post since I don't see him blaming the GM for anything (though thinking that we could get away without buffing our bugei skills as a bushi was always a pipe dream). Then there's the issue where you think somehow we're the ones at fault here when it's clearly the Kakita overreacting.
 
So if I am understanding this right, during the tournament, both the Lion we beat, and the Crab we lost to, and us, agreed not to use iajutsu? Had we ran into a Crane later on, we would have opened with iajutsu, and then continued into kenjutsu. Or was it the fact, that someone gave the command "Fight!"?

That was a Kenjutsu tournament. Trying to use Iaijutsu would have broken the rules and been considered a personal insult to Matsu Ketsui.

Normally, that would mean an endless succession of Matsu samurai stepping forwards to avenge the insult to their Daimyo. If the offender happened to be particularly dangerous or annoying, Ketsui herself might have taken to the field. Considering she's a good enough duelist to beat Kenzishen and is the commander of the Lion's Pride, that's basically death by any other name.

@Maugan Ra - is this true? I've been one of the strongest advocates against the "we must sink all of our exp into combat stats all the time if we want to have any hope of living" bloc, and I've been that way in large part because of stuff you've said OOC that led me to believe that we wouldn't be continually getting pushed into fighting for our life, and we could afford to focus more on court skills of various sorts, especially if we didn't sink too many points into combat skills. If this sort of "social challenge or fight for your life" thing is going to be a common event in the plotline, then I'm going to have to regretfully change my stance on this. I don't want to turn Naoto into a tanked-up bushi who happens to be pretty smart and pretty smooth on the side, but at this point it's looking like our best bet for survival.

I will point out that this Quest has a current tally of three combats, of which two have not actually happened yet - the Display of Steel, the challenge to defend Mariko, and potentially the confrontation with Kakita Sekawa depending on how you handle things. Of those, the first two were entirely voluntary on the part of my voters, and this current one is a reaction to some of your prior decisions.

It is absolutely viable for you to sink points into social and mental skills and get by reasonably well with low-to-minimal combat investment. Courtiers and Shugenja do it all the time. It's just that you (here referring to the voters as a whole) seem to be trying to do that while also entering martial tournaments and willingly facing down a Matsu Berserker in a duel to the death.
 
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[X] Call out amicably, "Good evening, Kakita-san! How can I help you?" while gently letting go of Mariko. Even if we enjoyed it, it is not proper to show such affection in public.

Putting our hands on our sword might aggravate him further, and I don't think he's going to attack us without a warning.
 
We have NEVER treated him like an enemy. We have never interacted with him, and we're not a Courtier. We're a Bushi, unless I missed something in CharGen and we actually voted on becoming a Bayushi Courtier.
Yeah, we are a Courtier. Read our stats. Our class is Bushi. Our role is Bushi. Our competence is Courtier.
High Skills (Courtier)
Artisan (Poetry) 1
Calligraphy 1
Courtier (Manipulation) 3
Etiquette 3
Games: Go 1
Investigation 1
Sincerity 2


Bugei Skills(Bushi)
Battle 1
Defense 2
Iaijutsu 1
Kenjutsu 2

As for abilities, we got
Strength: 2
Perception: 2
Agility: 3
Reflex 4
for bushi against

Intelligence: 4
Awareness: 4
for Courtier,
and our plan was to invest in Int 5.

I think you're reading too much into Sirrocco's post since I don't see him blaming the GM for anything (though thinking that we could get away without buffing our bugei skills as a bushi was always a pipe dream). Then there's the issue where you think somehow we're the ones at fault here when it's clearly the Kakita overreacting.
Quite possible I am reading too much into it. We shall see.

As for Kakita over reacting, maybe. You do not know that. You belive that, but you do not know that. We have no idea why he is looking at us murderously or what he is about to do. Just guesses based on what we know of the situation. And giving what we knew, it was our fault we did not better preapare for this. And we did treat him like an enemy. We tried to seduce his love after we were told he loved her.

Remember Chens warning? And we did this without talking it out with him. By doing that we basiclly said:"Well we know you love her, but we are going to take her anyway." And not talk to you about it, we are just going to court her. How would you feel if you were in a bar, and told some random guy: I really like this girl. And he was like: Really? Guess I'll go ask her out. Chen probably told Kakita that he warned us off, and we ignored the threat of an angry Kakita. Go back trough the story. We acted as if Kakita did not exsist(from his point of view).

And we only reinforced that by taking his job. So yeah, enemy.

EDIT:It occures to me this might be a good time to use our second void point, to help calm down an angry Kakita, what does everybody else think?
 
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I want to be sure I have this clear. Kakita Yandere can't bring himself to actually step up and say "Yo dawg, I like this girl, could you slow your roll" to Naoto's face, this girl who is his superior, which means he has no control whatsoever about who she does and does not date, anyway, Kakita Fedora over there just stews in his own juices until he jumps to the conclusion "If I kill Naoto Soshi she'll love me again! Genius!"

And you think Naoto is the one in the wrong.
 
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No, it has been mentioned as a posiblity. Multiple times. It was even predicted. We just do not belive that to be the case. It is the paranoid Seduce/Execute plan mentioned.

It is just that for it to work, Mariko would have to be a dirty dirty liar to us. And we do not belive that. As far as I can tell how the majority of the voters feel.
She would have to be a dirty, dirty liar. It's true. She would also have to be a *much better* liar than we would otherwise have expected, as her On has broken a few times in ways that appeared quite genuine that undercut the idea that she would do this.

It is also hard to credit at this point what she might hope to gain from this, if it were true. Sure, in general, in most courts, two crane claiming that they were treated dishonorably by a Scorpion who they had to kill? It's a bit dubious, but it might get papered over. Here, now, in this court, these two Cranes, who have basically done nothing but invite the loathing of their hosts, claiming that they were treated dishonorably by Soshi Naoto, who is well-liked by many, who is known for being bizarrely honorable, who has a superior who outranks them both and has a very serious in with the Diamyo? (Oh... and who is known for being crazy and can pretty obviously wipe the floor with anyone they might put up as a duelist?) Yeah. That's not part of any sane or plausible plan... and if that *were* her plan, she wouldn't have accepted our offer to champion her - as that note we sent to our superior as a result will only make things worse if we show up dead.

So, a dirty, dirty liar of great skill who is also bad at making plans. It's not impossible, but it *is* implausible.

I think you're reading too much into Sirrocco's post since I don't see him blaming the GM for anything (though thinking that we could get away without buffing our bugei skills as a bushi was always a pipe dream). Then there's the issue where you think somehow we're the ones at fault here when it's clearly the Kakita overreacting.
Oh, I never thought we could get away without it... but we've increased our Reflexes by 2, and everyone realizes that's not enough if "potential duels to the death" are going to become a regular part of our lives.

/*******/

Anyway, let's look at the plausible. This is a game about what people want. What does everyone here want (probably)?

Doji Mariko
- Almost certainly wants this to Not Be Happening Please.
- Specifically, wants her childhood friend to not be going all crazy in bad ways and seriously threatening one of her best potential allies (and significant love interests) right now... or ever. Preferably, Kakita-kun would go back into his convenient little hole and be vaguely useful but mostly out of the way until and unless she needs him.
- Would very much like to not bring any non-Lion-related dishonor on the Crane clan. Would also like to have Nobody Die.

Kakita Sekawa (as presented)
- Would very much like to kill us in a duel. It may not be a good idea or the right choice, or strictly honorable, but it would be *so satisfying*.
- Alternately, would like to see us quivering abjectly in fear of his Manly Kakitaness, demonstrating to the only audience who really matters how superior he is to us. Filthy Scorpion.
- Craves the affection of Doji Mariko, and would really very much like to have her *not* put him in a convenient little hole where he is constantly surrounded by enemies that he's not allowed to kill.
- Would like to have the events of this night reflect well on him and the Crane in general, and to raise him in Doji Mariko's esteem.

Kakita Sekawa (other possibilities)
- This might be a test. Daidoji Chen tested us, and set us up for this to be a test as well. There's the possibility (however faint) that this is a setup, and he's checking to see how we react.

Given this... I really feel like just tossing him a standard greeting lets him stay on script. He's a Kakita. he knows his way around courtiers. The disarming greeting has to be something he's accustomed to. I really think we need to do the Bayushi Kimoko thing and knock his legs out from under him a bit.

[x] Allow yourself to show surprise on your face and in your voice at seeing him.
[x] "Kakita-san! Is something wrong? Is Doji-sama in danger?"
[x] Move clear of Doji Mariko, drawing your blade and turning, so as to face directly away from Kakita Sekawa with Doji Mariko behind you. Act as if you believe the Kakita to be reacting to a threat on the far side of you, and you are moving to assist him in defending her. Who knows? It's faintly possible that he might be. There are shadowlands creatures that can fly and/or climb sheer mountain faces, after all.

It's a plausible maybe-lie that we can tell that still gives him a chance to back down honorably - and lets him make that call when he and Doji-sama can communicate and we can't see them doing so. It also means that he has to go around (or through) Doji Mariko to get to us and then stab us in the back - something I suspect he'll be loathe to do for a few reasons. It lets us draw our sword, so we at least get that part out of the way. It changes the situation enough to force him to stop and think at least a little, and it does all of this in a way that doesn't actually insult or threaten the man at any point. I'm not saying it's perfect. It's not. Among other things, it depends on him taking that moment to think (and whatever signals Doji Mariko can send him) and backing down (at least a bit). It's about as good as I'm going to come up with, though.
 
Remember Chens warning? And we did this without talking it out with him. By doing that we basiclly said:"Well we know you love her, but we are going to take her anyway." And not talk to you about it, we are just going to court her. How would you feel if you were in a bar, and told some random guy: I really like this girl. And he was like: Really? Guess I'll go ask her out. Chen probably told Kakita that he warned us off, and we ignored the threat of an angry Kakita. Go back trough the story. We acted as if Kakita did not exsist(from his point of view).

And we only reinforced that by taking his job. So yeah, enemy.

EDIT:It occures to me this might be a good time to use our second void point, to help calm down an angry Kakita, what does everybody else think?

Several problems with the analogy. First, he didn't tell us he loved her, some other guy told us that. And that occurred AFTER we had already started courting her. We were under no obligation to back away. And even then, the proper response in that situation is to tell the guy he's an asshole, not to try to kill him.

At worst this sort of behavior would make us rivals, if the Kakita were thinking clearly. Certainly not enough to justify attempted murder - though that outcome seems like something he's not necessarily going to try if GM comments are any indication. If he were thinking clearly he would probably try to embarrass us, or something of that nature to hurt our chances with crane girl. The fact that he appears to have considered murder an appropriate first response shows he's clearly unstable.
 
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