Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Please let this show up at some point.
I'm Not a Regular Mom (FGO OC)
- Thread starter Blinktwice13
- Start date
Critian Caceorte
Currently Suffering from Space-Time Narcolepsy
- Location
- Washington State
For a second there I thought you said "detective fool" and was wondering when Holmes arrived.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Ok, so I dug it back up and... it was less a post and more a series of response in what was an ongoing conversation over in @Swordomatic's non-Warhammer Magnum Opus: Fate Sunny Order. Here's what I've sown together, with hopefully clear enough delineation of canons.
So, in Fate human civilization's origins are a bit diverse, wierd, and highly narrative. Both due to geography and the pervasive Mana and Mystery in the Age Of The Gods, it's less like there's one single world so much as multiple smaller ones within the same space. Humans collective perception and understanding of the world is that absurdly potent, it's why the gods of Babylon tried to put a leash on them. But I digress, the point is that Tiamat's an origin for humanity, not the origin for all humanity. That's confirmed with the differences between Quetz and Tiamat's origins.
The only pre-Nero Saberface I can find is the secret "Holy Sword Wielder" who killed the Velber "Sefar", AKA Altera. So right away, I'm having to patch together an explanation. Given the name and the dating of 14,000 years ago, it's a connection to the Neolithic site Tassili Ajjer in modern day Algeria. Although given those cave drawings date back only 12,000 years, they're likley the oldest surviving recordings or retellings of what I'm going to call Saber Origin and her myth. While Babylon may hold the title of oldest human civilization, the human species is currently understood to have emerged in Africa and began dispersing both into the Fertile Crescent and western Africa along the Mediterranean. Algeria's location near Spain and its previous state as a fertile savannah makes it a key place for the pre-Neolithic nomadic hunter-gather societies. Intermixing with Archaic Humans, meeting other migrating humans who've moved through Europe, this connection of viewpoints and different peoples in a dangerous but still idyllic land would help foster the first glimpses of a better life... and its imminent crushing under the Velber. That's what I'm supposing were what led the ancient Fay and this mysterious young heroine to form a contract. A sword forged of the newborn humanity's hopes and dreams, connecting to and empowered by every human who will ever exist. This is the start of Saber Origin: A Hero Older Than Gilgamesh.
And then we have nothing until Nero. BAH!
Anyways, Roman Empire, spread to Britain, Arthur is supposed to be a Romano-Britain leader who fought the Anglo-Saxons, genealogical connection there, everyone knows that. What happens next is when it gets wierd. Where the Saberface starts spreading. We have three "main" Saberfaces. Jeanne D'Arc. Okita Souji. And Lakshmibai. Technically, we make four if we include Queen Elizabeth. Grey definitely exists among the mains, but her origins are explained as the product of a cult of Morgan trying to reincarnate Artoria. If we open the can of worms that is FGO's crossover with other Type Moon works and embrace the origins of the meme, we add Ryougi Shiki and debatably Arcueid. After that, it's pretty much "artificial" entities like the Alters or Santas, the variances due to Class Containers such as Lancer, and the alternate universe/timeline versions like Goddess Rhongomyniad andMerlin's Eroge apprentice Caster Artoria. But right now, the latter two are sufficiently explained by their own origins and prexisting knowledge. I'm just explaining the main three.
We know Merlin was involved in the Paladins of Charlemagne in teaching Bradamante, and this fic's taken it a bit further. That's in the late 7th and early 8th century, and technically doesn't involve a Saberface. But it's Merlin, so Shenanigans are involved, maybe Bradamante can be considered an Honorary Saberface. Which brings us to Jeanne in the 14th century. With the country of France having been partially occupied by the English monarchy during the Hundred Years War and the Burgundians who allied with the English, it's not unlikely the bloodline passed along during the war. If I'm matching my maps right, Domrémy was within English territory during the beginning of the Burgundian/Armagnacs Civil War.
Queen Elizabeth I of the 15th and 16th centuries, while not having the direct facial features, claims to be a descendant of King Arthur. This claim is reinforced by her Golden Hind, which, and I quote:
In the 18th century, we have two Saberfaces at once. The Captain of the Shinsengumi and the Rani of Jhansi. Okita was born in 1842, and the only British involvement before the reopening of the country is the enlistment of William Adams by Tokugawa Ieyasu, and William Adams attempts to establish trade with the Dutch East India company and the British East India company. But that was broken off when the Dutch and English came to blows. So William Adams must have had royal blood, and his Japanese family, who dropped off the historical record, eventually intersected with the Okita family to produce Souji. Straightforward compared to Lakshmibai, as we'll see.
Born to a Brahmin caste family, Lakshimibai was given her name when she married the king of the "princely state" of Jhansi, a vassal of the increasingly weak Maratha Empire. While at the time the East India Company's control over India was extensive and ravenous, producing a mixed-race child would've been a massive scandal to both sides. Instead, her connection to the Artoria bloodline I'm going to theorize is not based on pure genetics. It's a divine one. See, in much the same vein she was named after a goddess upon her marriage, in Fate she is a kind of "pseudo-Servant" like Mashu. A modern Servant in her own right, but still containing a divided-off piece of a divine spirit. But it's not the goddess of wealth, fortune, power, luxury, beauty, fertility, and auspiciousness she embodies. While she is very maternal and loving, contentment in being just a mother was never her nature. Instead, Lakshimibai contains a fragment of the Goddess' sister, Alakshmi. Literally, it means "not Lakshmi". In her wake, she brings misfortune and infighting, and when interpreted through Lakshimibai she possesses a kind of 'bad luck charm'. Whether its falling off a wall because a stone crumbles or a missed shot at someone else hits her vitals, Lakshimibai lives a cursed life. But for that price, she can command a fragment of power from Alashimi's husband Kali. Which brings me to my theory about Lakshimibai's connection: I think she's channeling main timeline Morgan, who calls herself Alakshmi. Think about it. Alakshmi and Lakshimi are said to travel together at all times, the Yang to her Yin in a way, as the blessing of great wealth and status can create the hunger for more which exhausts what one has. And in some Alter forms, such as EMIYA ALTER, Okita Alter, and especially Arjuna Alter, the body is changed to have a darker skin tone. Morgan herself always clings to and follows the 'perfect' Artoria, and is constantly shunned and kept out of normal society. Thus she desires to be with Artoria, to the point she'll commit any evil deed or ally with any evil entity, to see her 'sister' returned to her arms. A myth paralleled in Alakshmi and Lakshimi. That's my hypothesis: Morgan cut a part of herself off, wrapped it up with a bit of Alakshimi's own power, and gave it to Lakshimibai.
... holy shit, I've spent three hours nonstop on this stupid thing. @Blinktwice13, please tell me this at least amuses you.
So, in Fate human civilization's origins are a bit diverse, wierd, and highly narrative. Both due to geography and the pervasive Mana and Mystery in the Age Of The Gods, it's less like there's one single world so much as multiple smaller ones within the same space. Humans collective perception and understanding of the world is that absurdly potent, it's why the gods of Babylon tried to put a leash on them. But I digress, the point is that Tiamat's an origin for humanity, not the origin for all humanity. That's confirmed with the differences between Quetz and Tiamat's origins.
The only pre-Nero Saberface I can find is the secret "Holy Sword Wielder" who killed the Velber "Sefar", AKA Altera. So right away, I'm having to patch together an explanation. Given the name and the dating of 14,000 years ago, it's a connection to the Neolithic site Tassili Ajjer in modern day Algeria. Although given those cave drawings date back only 12,000 years, they're likley the oldest surviving recordings or retellings of what I'm going to call Saber Origin and her myth. While Babylon may hold the title of oldest human civilization, the human species is currently understood to have emerged in Africa and began dispersing both into the Fertile Crescent and western Africa along the Mediterranean. Algeria's location near Spain and its previous state as a fertile savannah makes it a key place for the pre-Neolithic nomadic hunter-gather societies. Intermixing with Archaic Humans, meeting other migrating humans who've moved through Europe, this connection of viewpoints and different peoples in a dangerous but still idyllic land would help foster the first glimpses of a better life... and its imminent crushing under the Velber. That's what I'm supposing were what led the ancient Fay and this mysterious young heroine to form a contract. A sword forged of the newborn humanity's hopes and dreams, connecting to and empowered by every human who will ever exist. This is the start of Saber Origin: A Hero Older Than Gilgamesh.
And then we have nothing until Nero. BAH!
Anyways, Roman Empire, spread to Britain, Arthur is supposed to be a Romano-Britain leader who fought the Anglo-Saxons, genealogical connection there, everyone knows that. What happens next is when it gets wierd. Where the Saberface starts spreading. We have three "main" Saberfaces. Jeanne D'Arc. Okita Souji. And Lakshmibai. Technically, we make four if we include Queen Elizabeth. Grey definitely exists among the mains, but her origins are explained as the product of a cult of Morgan trying to reincarnate Artoria. If we open the can of worms that is FGO's crossover with other Type Moon works and embrace the origins of the meme, we add Ryougi Shiki and debatably Arcueid. After that, it's pretty much "artificial" entities like the Alters or Santas, the variances due to Class Containers such as Lancer, and the alternate universe/timeline versions like Goddess Rhongomyniad and
We know Merlin was involved in the Paladins of Charlemagne in teaching Bradamante, and this fic's taken it a bit further. That's in the late 7th and early 8th century, and technically doesn't involve a Saberface. But it's Merlin, so Shenanigans are involved, maybe Bradamante can be considered an Honorary Saberface. Which brings us to Jeanne in the 14th century. With the country of France having been partially occupied by the English monarchy during the Hundred Years War and the Burgundians who allied with the English, it's not unlikely the bloodline passed along during the war. If I'm matching my maps right, Domrémy was within English territory during the beginning of the Burgundian/Armagnacs Civil War.
Queen Elizabeth I of the 15th and 16th centuries, while not having the direct facial features, claims to be a descendant of King Arthur. This claim is reinforced by her Golden Hind, which, and I quote:
It's literally just the Boaty McBoatface version of Excaliber. That pretty much seals any doubt of Elizabeth's inheritance to the blood of Artoria. To tie things back to Fate/Sunny Order, this is pretty much why Swordo says the British Royal Family has always had a single Saberface every generation. Which is where we transition to the Age of Empires.
In the 18th century, we have two Saberfaces at once. The Captain of the Shinsengumi and the Rani of Jhansi. Okita was born in 1842, and the only British involvement before the reopening of the country is the enlistment of William Adams by Tokugawa Ieyasu, and William Adams attempts to establish trade with the Dutch East India company and the British East India company. But that was broken off when the Dutch and English came to blows. So William Adams must have had royal blood, and his Japanese family, who dropped off the historical record, eventually intersected with the Okita family to produce Souji. Straightforward compared to Lakshmibai, as we'll see.
Born to a Brahmin caste family, Lakshimibai was given her name when she married the king of the "princely state" of Jhansi, a vassal of the increasingly weak Maratha Empire. While at the time the East India Company's control over India was extensive and ravenous, producing a mixed-race child would've been a massive scandal to both sides. Instead, her connection to the Artoria bloodline I'm going to theorize is not based on pure genetics. It's a divine one. See, in much the same vein she was named after a goddess upon her marriage, in Fate she is a kind of "pseudo-Servant" like Mashu. A modern Servant in her own right, but still containing a divided-off piece of a divine spirit. But it's not the goddess of wealth, fortune, power, luxury, beauty, fertility, and auspiciousness she embodies. While she is very maternal and loving, contentment in being just a mother was never her nature. Instead, Lakshimibai contains a fragment of the Goddess' sister, Alakshmi. Literally, it means "not Lakshmi". In her wake, she brings misfortune and infighting, and when interpreted through Lakshimibai she possesses a kind of 'bad luck charm'. Whether its falling off a wall because a stone crumbles or a missed shot at someone else hits her vitals, Lakshimibai lives a cursed life. But for that price, she can command a fragment of power from Alashimi's husband Kali. Which brings me to my theory about Lakshimibai's connection: I think she's channeling main timeline Morgan, who calls herself Alakshmi. Think about it. Alakshmi and Lakshimi are said to travel together at all times, the Yang to her Yin in a way, as the blessing of great wealth and status can create the hunger for more which exhausts what one has. And in some Alter forms, such as EMIYA ALTER, Okita Alter, and especially Arjuna Alter, the body is changed to have a darker skin tone. Morgan herself always clings to and follows the 'perfect' Artoria, and is constantly shunned and kept out of normal society. Thus she desires to be with Artoria, to the point she'll commit any evil deed or ally with any evil entity, to see her 'sister' returned to her arms. A myth paralleled in Alakshmi and Lakshimi. That's my hypothesis: Morgan cut a part of herself off, wrapped it up with a bit of Alakshimi's own power, and gave it to Lakshimibai.
... holy shit, I've spent three hours nonstop on this stupid thing. @Blinktwice13, please tell me this at least amuses you.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He
"Fou, fou, fou!" *And nobody can do anything to stop me!*
Blinktwice13
Underpaid Struggle Bus Attendant
- Location
- Eastern US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That was a huge wall of text and was very interesting. Thanks, @Always Late !
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I must insist that this be played at some point. Use a Command Spell on Mozart if needed.
Ah so that explains it.
Vitch got merged with an unrelated nogitsune of sufficient power and the Saint Graph of the real Su Daji. And if I'm reading what Manaka's inferring correctly then Vitch/Daji also has her memories from the canon timeline. Interesting.
That would make her something akin to a High-Servant on super steroids if she wasn't a Beast. How fitting then that another High Servant has arrived to help in the form of Sitonai.
Vitch got merged with an unrelated nogitsune of sufficient power and the Saint Graph of the real Su Daji. And if I'm reading what Manaka's inferring correctly then Vitch/Daji also has her memories from the canon timeline. Interesting.
That would make her something akin to a High-Servant on super steroids if she wasn't a Beast. How fitting then that another High Servant has arrived to help in the form of Sitonai.
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Which is probably why Fou has her on his list. At the core she's a trumped up servant instead of a true Beast of humanity.
Reality_Impacts
He Who Has Been Seen
- Location
- The Deep Abyss Of Madness
*Grail flashbacks intensifies*
Matthew!Fou and Taylor&Mattias!Fou meeting would either result in a battle to death or glorious camraderie
*sobs* Snarky Mash, the ultimate Mashform
And now I'm legitimately crying. I've only had upwards of 4 hours of sleep and a tiny bit emotional, don't mind me.
ILLYA!!
Didn't get to quote it but Morgan panicking and rushing to the lake, does this mean Sakura or Rin are done marinating??
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Matthew: I have successfully corrupted my little sister to the snark side of the Force. Suck it Marisbury!
Blinktwice13
Underpaid Struggle Bus Attendant
- Location
- Eastern US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's neither.
As a general rule, I tend to foreshadow things that are important very heavily. I've put no small amount of clues to the person in the lake's identity, but I won't discuss it further because it'll ruin the surprise for later.
- Location
- The Hub
Does Chaldeas still have it's Daybitcicle?
- Location
- California
No, gil tried to kill him but goetia's group saved him
Blinktwice13
Underpaid Struggle Bus Attendant
- Location
- Eastern US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That was Beryl Gut, the Daybitsicle is intact.
Owleero
(Verified Tree)
- Location
- Massachusetts
Tiamat…? Is that you?
- Location
- The Hub
Ah so Operation "Preemptively Acquire Grand Berserker" is potentially still go?
But seriously, Grand Berserker is probably freed from the CHAINS OF OPPRESSIVE MADNESS! NUUUUUOOOOO!
...What Spartaflop said. While Grand Berserker might be Mad, their Grand status fundamentally ignores the whole "Madness at the expense of everything else." flaw of a regular Berserker.
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- Location
- The Internet
It's not like that version is that much better. Actually, the more I stare at it the more I think it might be worse
Blinktwice13
Underpaid Struggle Bus Attendant
- Location
- Eastern US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, the original design sure has its problems given the... apparent age... of Blavatsky, but this one has its own issues. If I did use it, I'd have the leotard cover out from her pelvis to at least her thighs, if not outright give her pants. Or drop a miniskirt onto the ensemble. Her top's not the worst thing I've seen but the rest is just this side of uncomfortable.
This is, of course, assuming she isn't replaced in E Pluribus Unum (which she probably won't be, but with what I do have her role won't be any larger than canon).
This is, of course, assuming she isn't replaced in E Pluribus Unum (which she probably won't be, but with what I do have her role won't be any larger than canon).
pearypie
microwaving some barbies in your microwave
- Location
- Silicon Valley
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yep. Honestly, I'll be happy with any older version of Helena. I think maybe shorts would fit her best, though.
Madam Blavatsky looks incredibly good in her maturity. Why couldn't FGO have that...?
But seriously, a skirt would work better, she looks like someone who only grabbed a coat and boots before leaving their bedroom.
But seriously, a skirt would work better, she looks like someone who only grabbed a coat and boots before leaving their bedroom.
Reality_Impacts
He Who Has Been Seen
- Location
- The Deep Abyss Of Madness
Fudge, well then I just have to wait cause I'm denser than a gravity well and am drawing blanks.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I really want to see Morgan's reaction to Caster Artoria.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Merlin, put that face away. Fou's probably looking for you already.
- Location
- Brazil
He's going to leave a crater on his face.