Is this true? I would think the development of a general approximate framework for social interaction (which is one path to becoming a high-functioning autistic) would require sufficient generality to have a Y for most X you might actually encounter.
If said framework is highly calibrated (a reasonable expectation given high intelligence) with incorrect starting assumptions, you'd get decent short-term predictions but horrible causal modeling and long-term prediction, which is something like what we're seeing here.
(Not to say Sunset is autistic here, I'm just curious about the IRL case)
I've got about 30 years of working with mid-and-high functioning autistics behind me. I'm not a psychologist, but I have done a lot of thinking on the matter and here's my point of view.
It's not the results here that are at issue, it's the process to them. Here, Sunset eschews a lot of social norms because she's working from the idea that the people asking for those norms are asking to her detriment because they're jealous/want to hurt her. That's a neurotypical pattern. For the autistic pattern it would be "I don't know why this social norm exists and no one has actually explained it to me in a way that makes sense, so I'm going to ignore it because it's annoying". That's the neurodivergent pattern. That's not to say there isn't any overlap, however.
Let's look at Sunset's reaction to 'the help'. Sunset is rude to helpstaff because "Why should I thank someone for doing their jobs?". The issue here is that Sunset is doing this because 'people don't thank me when I do my job, why should I thank them, they're already getting paid". That's a distorted neurotypical pattern.
The neruodivergent pattern would be "Huh? I should be nice to them? Why would I need to be? Please explain?". Genuine confusion, not spiteful disdain.
Sunset is a bit too 'on the ball' as it were as to why people are doing things, and she's right too often (historically). Sunset's misanthropy stems (in a large part) from how her tutors treated her. She was a lowborn 'intruding' in a highborn space, and she recognized that as the reason she was getting flak. An autistic person would simply be "People are snooty to me and I don't know why" or "Some people are just snooty all the time and I don't like it". It wouldn't fully register the root cause. This is true even of the highest functioning autistics, they tend to just... miss a vital part of the equation, and trend towards a level of confusion that I'm not seeing here.
If you want a good example of a very well-written autistic mindset, I'd recommend "Just Deserts", set in the MHA universe. You'll see what I mean. To give an example, the main character has an ability that allows him to basically regenerate wounds instantly. Once he knows he can do this, he starts completely ignoring the fact that he's taken grievous bodily harm if his ability recovers it. "Oh, I took damage and bled some"*shorp* "oh it's fixed, moving on". Pain is completely discarded given that it's temporary and annoying, so he doesn't really consider it as anything worth making note of, where in a normal person pain is a big deal. There's a certain level of hard focus on the results over the method there that's emblematic of the autistic mindset that Sunset just doesn't show here.
Finally, while I know the 'degurechaff' character gaining awareness kills the principle drive of Misunderstanding fics... that's kinda why I was so hopeful. Because the misunderstanding MC actually learning would be a new and interesting experience. Though I definitely agree they can't just have everything fixed all at once, that would kill the story.
I would argue that there's a bit of a misconception or perhaps a misconflation of story types here. Given your usage of the name "Degurechaff", you're presumably referring to the type of story that tends to come from Youjo Senki (Saga of Tanya the Evil) fics (or even the source material) due to the personality and mental world model of the protagonist from it (the Salaryman/Tanya Degurechaff). You are also conflating these with the stories Alivaril tends to write (mostly featuring her particular version of QA). However, the two are distinctly different.
YS fics (at least the decent ones that don't just flanderized the idea of misunderstandings in series), are not really about misunderstandings per say. They are about a character with a nonstandard, but largely functional worldview that doesn't line up with how most people view the world, and thus will often cause some conflicts or complications, but ultimately the character can generally adapt and will continue using their divergent views to work toward their goals, just shifting plans to account for the new circumstances. Depending on the setting, there may not even be significant or frequent misunderstandings, as such misunderstandings generally come from Tanya trying to apply signals for desired position and advancement in modern Japan businesses to her current situation when those don't provide the desired message due to differing cultures (and while Tanya does know how to adapt some of that, she's also generally too late figuring out the problem and to adverse to potentially standing out in a bad way to try changing tracks, instead opting to double down and try to succeed in whatever situation she got herself into). It should also be noted that Tanya is very much a social chameleon who will do her best to try blending into the culture she finds herself in, even if she does make some mistakes due to incorrect preconceived notions on how things work.
At any rate, the main point of difference is that YS fics generally give Tanya some manner of goal she's working toward in a more concrete sense. Usually that's a peaceful retirement, but there may be something she needs to deal with to achieve that. For instance surviving the war in YS canon, or trying to navigate politics in a more politically focused fic, or handling whatever plot is going on. From there, the point of interest in the fic is reading to see how she navigates various issues in pursuit of that goal with her nonstandard views on how the world works and the best ways to interact with others. While she might form some bonds with others, she is largely developed mentally, and as noted, while it may not line up perfectly with reality, her mental model is functional enough for her to get by, and is unlikely to experience much in the way of core changes.
On the other hand, Alivaril's stories (and some others I've encountered from other authors that have similar plotlines) and more what I'd call "Learning to person" stories. They're superficially similar to YS fics, in that you have a character with a very different idea of how the world and people work from the norm, and that does potentially result in a variety of misunderstandings, but the actual focus and goal of the story is quite different. First, while there may be some driving goal for the character, it's often not actually the story focus. Rather, the focus is instead on the character growing as a person and learning to change and/or adapt their worldviews to something that is actually more functional.
For instance in the many QA fics, QA generally has the goal of ending entropy as per the cycle, but is not particularly focused on that, and instead is just enjoying the "nonstandard cycle" she's in, which in turn causes her to encounter unusual situations that challenge her views and generally result in her becoming a better person as she forms bonds and attachments to people. It's admittedly rather slow, but she's also rather ancient so it makes sense that the short period seen in any of the fics thus far hasn't made much progress. In this story, we've already seen Sunset having views successfully challenged and resulting in her making attempts to work on them.
The point is, while the two can be superficially similar, the focus is different. Like how a proper horror movie is different from an action movie with horror story monsters.
Incredulity stampeded through my mind while I tried to make sense of the situation. I didn't—she wanted to adopt me? And not as a niece, like Cadance, but as a full-fledged daughter? Had Celestia ever adopted a daughter? A couple of her past pupils were once wards of the state before being adopted or fostered by other ponies, and the aristocracy had been appeased by two or three honorary nieces and nephews in centuries long past. Case in point, the thoroughly irritating ponce Prince Blueblood, who wasn't an alicorn despite his honorary title and was therefore only equivalent to a duke. Celestia had never adopted anypony as a first-degree relative, though.
In that light, her earlier excuse about stalling while she researched relevant laws wore all the thinner. There was no precedent. I could overlook her avoidance considering the subject matter, though. This was — she said I didn't need to prove myself to her, but since I was the very first pony whom she was doing this for, I quite clearly did. And if there was one lie in there, subconscious or not, there might be more.
Suspicion fell over budding hope and excitement, and dampened both back to reasonable levels. I could dismiss the claim about loving me out of hoof. Celestia often said that she "loved" all her little ponies, yet I knew for a fact that wasn't true. She cared more than any other ruler on the planet, I was certain, but the way she treated us — all the little manipulations and misdirections, puppeting ponies as part of plans, the constant masks, her inability to be genuine unless she was pretending to be somepony else altogether, refusing to help for so long that I was forced to seek answers of my own — that wasn't love. She would have found a way to delegate more of her work well before now, spent more time together, and been gentler in general if she did love me. She did all that for Cadance.
I thought it more likely that she was trying to ensure that I didn't stray too far now that I was close to full-fledged ascension, and perhaps more importantly, had an Outsider metaphorically whispering in my ear. Voice of Imperceptible Dreams remained an unknown to Celestia, and one that had attached Herself to Celestia's own student. If Voice was malicious, She could twist my mind, bit by bit, until I posed a genuine threat to Equestria. Plenty of Outsiders previously did similar acts for their own amusement, although the Grimoire claimed that they usually used brute force when changing minds rather than persuasion. Even if She did turn out to be malicious, I didn't think Voice would resort to forcible changes; it wouldn't make for a very good story.
Similarly, since I was likely to ascend within the next decade anyway, adopting me now was merely getting ahead of the curve. Adopting me as a daughter rather than a niece might be due to Celestia's guilt, or possibly an acknowledgement of how much more I had accomplished compared to Cadance. I hoped it was the latter.
Either way, Celestia didn't love me. Now that I was undying, though, I had all the time in the world to prove myself and ensure that she did. I expected I would have a much greater share of Celestia's time, too, which was enough to encourage me to accept all by itself. She might remain as busy as ever, but ponies were much more forgiving when one took time off for a daughter compared to taking time off for a student.
"There's little that would make me happier," I said honestly, following Celestia's example and keeping my misgivings hidden. "Thank you so very much, Prin—er, 'Mother?'"
Even if I knew it might just be another method of keeping me under control, uttering the word still sent a thrill of happiness through me. I supposed that was what made it an effective lever. Celestia knew well how to offer ponies something similar to what they wanted so that they would happily obey her, often while thinking it was their own idea the whole time.
Although, Celestia did seem delighted to be called 'Mother,' too. So maybe my earlier hypothesis about being shifted to immortal timescales was an accurate one? If I was being treated as the filly equivalent of an immortal rather than a mostly grown mortal mare — well, it might be be a bit humiliating, but it was one of the more innocuous reasons I could think of for Celestia to decide that an adoption was necessary.
"But what does that mean, exactly?" I questioned, keeping my expectations firmly under control. "I know it doesn't make me a princess until after I ascend, but I don't think there's any other precedent for this, is there?"
Celestia sighed with relief and slowly rose back to her hooves. Really, she had been worried that I would say no? What mare in her right mind would refuse this kind of offer from Princess Celestia?
She didn't stop at merely standing up, though. She telekinetically retrieved every unused cushion from around the room, arranged them into an improvised expansion to my bed, and carefully settled down beside me, levitating my food to avoid knocking it over.
As soon as she seemed certain that her position was reasonably stable, one Celestia-sized wing reached out to engulf me in an embrace and drag me against her side. Even if I knew this entire adoption might be a trap, it was one that I suddenly had a very difficult time remaining wary of. Thinking was trickier in general, really. It was hard to exercise appropriate caution when long-neglected biochemical pathways were intent on secreting unquestioning happiness as though trying to make up for lost time.
"You would be a duchess of a new house with all the privileges that entails, albeit with those same restrictions," Celestia explained, and I forced myself to pay attention. "I have accumulated quite a bit of land over the years that does not formally fall into the holdings of any specific noble house, and could include some of it as part of the bestowal — but the choice of whether you desire such holdings is up to you. I believe you might consider it an unwelcome distraction from your studies, yet I clearly do not know nearly as much about your desires as I thought I did."
Most of those privileges would be irrelevant for several years yet. I would technically be allowed to vote as part of the House of Ladies from the moment the title was bestowed, but tradition demanded that I wait until I was at least twenty. Any younger and some nobles would switch sides, even if it harmed their own interests, specifically to keep young ponies from trying to exercise power until we were deemed old and mature enough to have some idea of what we were doing.
Considering some of the foal exploitation we witnessed in other nations, Equestria's refusal to allow foals and teenagers in national politics was one tradition I had little issue with. The primary exception to the tradition was when an heir was voting in support of a cause that said heir's deceased parents had supported, again to prevent us from devolving into the violent barbarism that other nations so often resorted to.
It was just as well that I would need to wait; I hoped to have ascended before I turned twenty, and it wouldn't do for the nobility to have gotten into the habit of opposing me. Plus, all bills proposed by the House needed to go through Celestia before being implemented into Equestrian law. I might have more influence than ponies assumed simply by virtue of proximity to Celestia.
Eat your heart out, Prince Blueblood, I thought smugly.
Perhaps another pony might jump at the opportunity to be granted tangible assets; it would be insurance in the event that Celestia threw me away. Requiring insurance made it sound like failure was an option, which I refused to allow. Additionally, I had watched Princess Celestia overwork herself long enough to know that the offer was more complex than just being given gifts. With rights came responsibilities.
"I think matters might grow needlessly complicated if I'm granted holdings and subsequently ascend," I admitted. "I'm not oblivious to my own reputation, either. I think anypony whom you assigned under me might view it as punishment, and a resulting decrease in morale and therefore tax revenue might make them contribute less to Equestria than if they were allowed to continue as they have been."
There was a small silence as Celestia presumably followed my trail of logic, or perhaps realized that I wasn't oblivious to what other ponies thought of me after all. Admittedly, it was truly strange to realize that my long-ignored reputation might actually have a tangible impact on my effectiveness. I had always assumed that ponies would automatically forgive any perceived missteps once I proved I was right by becoming an alicorn princess, but as Cadance's troubles showed, even that wasn't a guarantee. I couldn't even blame her for the nonsensical, magically impractical rumors that other ponies spread.
"Your 'reputation' is a byproduct of how you treat ponies," Celestia said gently. "Treat them with kindness, and I believe you will find that the public is quite willing to forgive one who has not directly harmed them. I did notice that you are working on being more civil, and I am quite glad of it; ponies are very quick to judge those who are rude to them. Few creatures are not, although their standards for 'rudeness' may vary."
It wasn't anything that Celestia hadn't said before, but it was easier to acknowledge now that casually disregarding other ponies might come with consequences I cared about. Voice insisting that being polite would be beneficial really did make much more sense now. She had directly told me that much of her support would go toward improving my position once I did ascend. She had coached her insistence on manners in terms of short-term personal benefits, but with the benefit of hindsight, I could see that she was being a bit more ambitious than that.
I would need to be more careful with Voice than I had realized. For all her claims of using restrictions to know what was socially acceptable, it seemed that her prior experience might apply to ponykind after all. I didn't think that she would try to twist me, and being attracted by the Summer Sun Celebration was a definite mark in her favor. However, some Outsiders were attracted to joy so that they might ruin it. I would need to be sure that whatever advice she provided was actually reasonable.
I was getting distracted, though. I couldn't afford to let Celestia believe that I was ignoring her on the very night that she decided to adopt me. For that matter, I should be careful to ensure that she didn't think I was ignoring the magnitude of her actions at all.
"That requires 'treating them with kindness,'" I pointed out, "and I still don't feel as though I was wrong to ignite a few manes."
I expected another disappointed sigh. Now that she might actually view me as important, though, Celestia seemed intent on acting in ways I didn't expect.
"I suspect that I may have brought you to gatherings without first explaining how you might defend yourself from such ponies," Celestia admitted. "I am sorry. I blamed you for lashing out even though it was the only defense you knew."
I should really disagree with her: "I know how you do it, and I refuse to smile and let them." We already had that argument just last night, though, and repeating it in the exact same words wouldn't do any better at changing her mind.
I also added another mark in the column of 'evidence that she suddenly thinks of me as a younger immortal.' She was acting as though I hadn't known exactly what I was doing when I warned ponies away, and was instead — what, throwing a temper tantrum? As if. Fiery rebukes with word or spell had accomplished exactly what I'd wanted to, and encouraged awful ponies to stay well away from me.
"However," Celestia hesitantly started. "All this does presume that you want us to announce the adoption. If you would prefer for the announcement to be delayed until you are older or ascended altogether…?"
I didn't even need to think about that one. She wouldn't be able to make any more time for me if everypony still assumed that I was her student instead of her daughter — and that thought, now that my suspicions hadn't turned up any issues that I could not overcome, was a joyous one. I would still need to worry about being disowned, but that was a much more distant risk than the slow encroachment of potential graduation. And I wouldn't be politely kicked out of the castle when I was older, either! I could start properly exploring the castle with an eye to future usage rather than being intrusively aware that my every day spent living there was temporary.
"Only until I'm out of the hospital, please," I said firmly. "Perhaps a little longer if the logistics take time to work out. But please not years."
Much like Cadance, Celestia was momentarily stunned by me bothering to use any of the manners that I'd long ago been taught about, and discarded almost immediately. She recovered much more quickly than Cadance, however, and soon squeezed me with one wing.
...Or, wait, she'd already commented on my efforts. Why the pause, then? Unless it was still surprising? Talk now, analyze later.
"And do I have to give a speech?" I added before she could spout the meaningless platitudes of the hour. "Or, actually, I don't particularly want a party in general. Those are always excuses for rich ponies to prance around and pretend they're so much better than everypony else."
I kept myself from adding, even when they don't even know enough magic to counter one measly cantrip. It was close, though.
There was another moment of hesitation, presumably while Celestia compared my desire to preexisting plans and tried to figure out if it would break any.
"I do not expect you to give any sort of speech," Celestia agreed. "However, there will be those who treat your adoption as being of little import should we decline to celebrate it."
For once, I didn't feel the urge to roll my eyes despite disdain. I was much too comfortable and had to fight to even stay awake. That was a problem on multiple levels; first, that I could not afford to miss out on this conversation. Second, that I still hadn't actually eaten. I wasn't sure that Celestia actually even remembered the tray that she had yet to lower from midair. If I had to skip dinner, it would be no huge loss compared to skipping this conversation, but it would still be unpleasant come tomorrow morning.
"So? I don't need instant gratification. I can wait until I'm ascended for them to realize that I matter."
Celestia was silent for several long seconds.
"I am afraid of provoking an argument should I seem to have too strong a preference," Celestia admitted, "so allow me to be clear: if you truly do not wish for celebrations, you need not have one. However, this is one of those means of 'defending yourself' that I mentioned earlier. I know you view me as doing little against the words of greedy ponies, but truth be told, only the very stupid snub me in the ways that you have seen."
That startled a laugh out of me. Outside of her Spring Hail guise, Princess Celestia seldom called anypony stupid. Foalish, perhaps, but never a harsher insult.
"Everypony else subsequently watches as indirect consequences befall those particular ponies," Celestia continued. "Those consequences are usually born of their own actions rather than me needing to do anything, yet the nobility still believes that I have taken steps to punish offenders for their transgressions. Even when they do not self-destruct without aid, they at least overstep. It is the nature of baseless arrogance to believe that others are inferior, and when they do, they assume that their own plots must be undetectable rather than blindingly obvious.
"If we make it sufficiently clear that you are important to me–"
Another thrill of happiness struck. Confirmation that I was important! My efforts were finally enough! ...For now. I was sure there would be ever more tests as time went on, because there always were.
"–there will indeed still be those who test their luck. But in exchange, you should not be challenged by anypony truly troublesome."
There was a moment's pause before Celestia's tone took on a mock-thoughtful overtone.
"Or I could throw them at the Sun and see which wins," she mused. "A mother is, after all, expected to be protective of her filly."
Even knowing she would never do such a thing, the very idea that she was considering such thoughts was enough to provoke a weak grin. Not that she could see it with me pressed into her side. Or that I was complaining about said cuddling.
...Celestia might be on to something by acting like I was suddenly younger than was accurate. I didn't react nearly this strongly just a few days ago, before the new magic had started to properly settle in my body.
"What about when somepony smarter comes along, though?" I questioned, intent on ensuring that this remained a conversation.
"Then they are usually either smart enough to know that cooperation with the crown is in their best interest for their own continued prosperity, or aren't quite clever enough to understand that and try to take over Equestria altogether."
That startled a snort out of me. Anypony dumb enough to try would be lucky if they ended up as a footnote in history books.
"Despite their bluster, I have had a thousand years to defang the nobility," Celestia concluded. "I knew the ancestors of their great-great-great-great grandparents, and there are very few who can so much as imagine a world without me. Their strategies are based around 'managing' me rather than anything as reckless as seizing power. I am the board to them, not a competitor."
I couldn't help but notice how she didn't mention any of the little manipulations that ensured ponies still did her bidding even when she wasn't overtly expressing her power. 'The board,' indeed.
"Excuse me for a few minutes, please," Celestia requested, and paused.
The Solar Diarch finally seemed to remember the uneaten tray and floated it down to me. A moment later, she lifted her enveloping wing enough for me to get to the food, but showed no other sign of wanting to move. Which was a problem, because I had never seen her flip day to night without being able to see the sky.
I hadn't even noticed her casting any sort of warming spell, but I was absolutely sure that my food had gotten cold before. No longer; the salad remained cool, but steam wafted up from the carrot cake and porridge that comprised the rest of tonight's dinner.
"Please feel free to eat while I lower the Sun," said Celestia.
She still showed no sign of moving, yet the Sun wasn't visible from my bed.
"...Don't you need to get up for that?" I had to ask.
"It is far harder when I cannot see them, but not impossible," Celestia admitted. "Why, I fear that I might fall asleep on the spot."
Her tone was teasing and the implication obvious. If Celestia was going to go home simply to rest, then why not rest here? I had toyed with the idea of asking last night, and now I didn't have to. Still, the implied inefficiency did bite at me.
"I–"
I hesitated and mentally changed what I was going to say from, 'I wouldn't complain.' I needed to make it clear that adopting me would provide the lever that Celestia wanted, or else she might return to far less pleasant methods of control. Also, there existed no good reason for me to feel so comfortable, but I was.
"I would like that, I think," I admitted. "But why not just conjure a mirror or something so you can see out the window from here?"
There was a moment of silence. Celestia soon sighed, but it didn't seem to be with disappointment.
"Because I am quite clearly an old, addled mare who somehow never thought of that even after ensuring that mirrors were no longer a threat," Celestia grumbled, her horn lighting.
Wait, since when were mirrors dangerous? Aside from Starswirl's Mirror, which had admittedly led to dangerous ideas. I would need to ask later — or, actually, I wouldn't. History could stay where it belonged: in the past. Unless there was something to be learned from their methods or defeat, I would waste a great deal of time if I tried learning about every half-rate villain in Equestria's history.
A thin sheet of silver spread over the floor between us and the window, providing the reflective surface necessary for her to see the skies outside. A few seconds later, her horn brightened further — and promptly sent the Sun dipping down from our point of view, but up from everypony else's. Celestia twitched and caught the error within a few seconds, but nopony looking at the sky would have missed it.
"Oh, dear," Celestia snickered, sending the Sun back in the direction it was supposed to go. "Just when I had started to convince ponies that all was well. I'll certainly be asked about that one tomorrow."
I considered replying, but ultimately forced myself to start eating instead. I shouldn't distract her any more than she already had been. Raising the Sun and lowering the Moon was the single most important thing that Celestia did each day, and was even more important than everything else she did combined. Without her, or a small army of suitably trained unicorns, Equis's climate would grow unpredictable and possibly even unsuitable for most life. Even then, ordinary unicorns tended to burn out when trying to direct the Sun. There was some scholarly debate regarding whether that was due to repeated magical exhaustion, some form of mana burn, inferior nutrition of the pre-Equestrian era, or some combination of those factors. Whatever the cause, it simply was not a good idea for mortal unicorns to touch the Sun.
No matter what Celestia claimed, she was a goddess by any and every sensible measure. And she had chosen to adopt me. If I let myself think too hard about that fact, released my iron grip on my emotions for even a moment, I might well break down on the spot.
It was slightly terrifying to realize that, should I lose my composure right then, I might inadvertently doom everything in a massive area should Celestia be distracted from her sacred duty. If a summoned aspect of the Sun could famously raze entire battlefields, I didn't want to find out what losing track of the entire Sun would do.
Simply scarfing my food in silence was safer in multiple senses of the word. I wasn't the most dignified right then, but that didn't really matter. Celestia was focusing on the Sun and Moon right then, as she should be. If I finished before she finished transitioning day to night, we might even be able to continue speaking before bed. It wasn't as though she would have much time to talk in the morning.
By the time Celestia finished and looked back down, my tray was clean. I stared smugly up at her and reveled in the unfeigned bafflement she sent back, secure in the knowledge that she wouldn't bother to feign such an emotion. Bafflement implied a lack of understanding, and Celestia loathed letting herself look anything less than perfectly wise.
"…You realize that you were allowed to chew?" Celestia eventually managed.
"I'm part earth pony now," I said, still smug. "I've seen them eat at feasts. My digestive system can handle itself just fine without help from mastication."
A yawn escaped me, and I silently cursed my traitorous body. Worse still, Celestia took that yawn as encouragement to once more drag me close with one wing. I was immediately surrounded by warmth far more comfortable than what Cadance could manage on her best days.
"I'm not the only one who needs rest," said Celestia. "You, my dear daughter–"
Being called such sent another disproportionate thrill through me. I still strongly suspected that they might just be nice words, but they really were very nice words.
"–need to rest up if you ever want to escape this hospital bed. I will be certain to wake you before I depart."
But you are going to depart, I refrained from pointing out. Complaints were for after she ignored me, not when she was actually paying attention for once.
"I am so very glad that you accepted," Celestia added quietly. "I knew not what I would do if you threw the offer back as too little, too late."
I couldn't believe that. I drifted off to sleep secure in the knowledge that Celestia always had a backup plan. Case in point: resorting to the current adoption after I defied her orders and approached alicorn ascension without her aid. Her backup plan should I reject this likely wouldn't be half as gentle.
Ha! Sunset making the right choice for questionable reasons. Still, a major improvement from making horrible choices for questionable reasons. I'm glad she's still got that over analytical bend - it makes her fun to read.
Hopefully she and Celestia didn't talk past each other too much!
On the one hand, things went "well" and Sunset and Celestia both "got what they wanted", but on the other, those misunderstandings continue to swim about under the surface, and it doesn't look like Celestia has any idea just how bad those misunderstandings are - Sunset's responses appear to be sufficiently "normal" from the outside, despite the odd reasons for her decisions under the covers. Celestia's aware things aren't good, but she can't see into Sunset's head to see just how "not good" they are... I guess Voice will be happy, though - it likely has years to decades of entertainment while Cadance and Celestia try to help Sunset understand just how broken her base level assumptions are.
It's not the results here that are at issue, it's the process to them. Here, Sunset eschews a lot of social norms because she's working from the idea that the people asking for those norms are asking to her detriment because they're jealous/want to hurt her. That's a neurotypical pattern. For the autistic pattern it would be "I don't know why this social norm exists and no one has actually explained it to me in a way that makes sense, so I'm going to ignore it because it's annoying". That's the neurodivergent pattern.
While I generally agree she's probably not autistic, I would argue that she most likely is some manner of neurodivergent. Most likely one of the many varieties of anti-social personality disorder. She does have a number of traits in common with Schizoid personality disorder, but some key traits don't quite line up (her general lack of internal fantasy, her intense emotions, and her lack of indifference to praise and criticism being the main conflicts with that diagnosis, while arguments can also be made for other traits not fitting). Thus I'd suspect some flavour of anti-social personality disorder (which is often accompanied by intense emotion, is generally focused on personal utilitarian benefits from interactions while often focusing on short term over long term, and also has the general lack of concern for others), though as with most mental conditions, not all symptoms are expressed in all people with it and even when they are expressed there is varying severity and may be potential exceptions (also some arguments might be made that ponies with their different neurology and in particular their cutie marks may have some differences from humans in regards to how certain conditions are commonly expressed, though that could result in some debate over if they would qualify as the same condition since many cases are defined by symptoms, so changing the symptoms means it should be classified as something else).
Anyway, do keep in mind that while neurodivergent is often used to describe or reference the autistic spectrum, that is hardly the only condition that the term applies to.
Now take this heartwarming scene of Mother and Daughter and realize that there is a third person in the room, one that has been there the entire time, standing unnoticed next to the bed, watching with delight at the story taking place.
Now take this heartwarming scene of Mother and Daughter and realize that there is a third person in the room, one that has been there the entire time, standing unnoticed next to the bed, watching with delight at the story taking place.
Huh, I hadn't realized the "keep your (potential) enemies closer" reasoning but in retrospect it's an obvious one. Ties in well with the "I'm a baby immortal" reasoning since she's an impressionable little being who will need to be carefully guided (and hopefully with actual care instead of the previous "give vague hints" guiding)
Yes, and also encouraged everyone to stay well away. Still, once a few people with actually important problems come to her and she doesn't set them on fire, her reputation will likely start recovering.
"Only until I'm out of the hospital, please," I said firmly. "Perhaps a little longer if the logistics take time to work out. But please not years."
Much like Cadance, Celestia was momentarily stunned by me bothering to use any of the manners that I'd long ago been taught about, and discarded almost immediately. She recovered much more quickly than Cadance, however, and soon squeezed me with one wing.
...Or, wait, she'd already commented on my efforts. Why the pause, then? Unless it was still surprising? Talk now, analyze later.
Ok, this pause is clearly not from her being stunned at Sunset using the word "please" twice. I'm guessing that it's Celestia recognizing the emphasis on "years" and trying to figure out why Sunset would think she would delay things like that.
...Celestia might be on to something by acting like I was suddenly younger than was accurate. I didn't react nearly this strongly just a few days ago, before the new magic had started to properly settle in my body.
This was also when she was anesthetized and barely conscious. Somehow I doubt it's the new magic's fault that she likes being cuddled by her mother figure.
Case in point: resorting to the current adoption after I defied her orders and approached alicorn ascension without her aid. Her backup plan should I reject this likely wouldn't be half as gentle.
There's so much wrong here, Celestia would be in pain if she knew Sunset was thinking this. At least Sunset has finally internalized that Celestia wasn't trying to subtly push her into trying to call an outsider, whereas earlier she was constantly rationalizing it when Celestis denied it.
On that note, has Celestia dealt with the book yet? Seems like something she would do, locking it away in the "dangerous artifacts" vault instead of just the restricted section of her library.
Anyway, do keep in mind that while neurodivergent is often used to describe or reference the autistic spectrum, that is hardly the only condition that the term applies to.
My impression of her is that she is neurodivergent only in the sense of having had divergent experiences: much like how PTSD is a normal brain's response to certain trauma, so too is Sunset's behavior a response to what she's had to deal with in her life thus far. Well, beyond being a very driven and intelligent person, that probably came from before.
Ok, this pause is clearly not from her being stunned at Sunset using the word "please" twice. I'm guessing that it's Celestia recognizing the emphasis on "years" and trying to figure out why Sunset would think she would delay things like that.
Given that the original question was whether or not to wait until she's older or has ascended, the only thing I can think of is that Celestia was surprised that Sunset thought it would take her longer than a year or two to finish ascending.
Was Celestia even present when Voice gave Sunset the "within a decade" estimate? I can't remember.
Maybe she thought Sunset's friendship with Voice would develop quicker than that?
It wouldn't surprise me if she was underestimating the extent of Sunset's damage in that area.
In canon, Twilight forged a friendship worthy of the elements in the span of a day, and they were adults. If that's closer to normal for ponies, then a 15 year old filly taking multiple years to form one friendship would be surprising.
In canon, Twilight forged a friendship worthy of the elements in the span of a day, and they were adults. If that's closer to normal for ponies, then a 15 year old filly taking multiple years to form one friendship would be surprising.
In canon, Twilight forged a friendship worthy of the elements in the span of a day, and they were adults. If that's closer to normal for ponies, then a 15 year old filly taking multiple years to form one friendship would be surprising.
Twilight & Co were very firmly middle/high school age when that happened, depending on how much time passed between the pilot and the Equestria Girls movie. Traveling through the mirror made them human, it didn't make them younger.
All but Applejack lived alone at theseries start, with their own houses/property.
Rarity owned a succesful business.
Applejack ran the farm (success, debatable).
Rainbow Dash was a national level star athlete and basicly the boss (or close to) of local pegasus population when it came to running the weather.
Pinkie Pie was a (an apprentice?) baker and possibly ran a business as a party organizer.
I'm not sure what age they are supposed to be, but they clearly are past middle/high school age.
I got the impression of recent high school graduate/early college age. Rarity's business seemed fairly new, Rainbow Dash wasn't national-level until later in the show, and Pinkie Pie was an employee.
Though, I don't think Equestria has universal education beyond Elementary School ages. Twilight didn't really think about it when she went to the human world because she was one of the few who actually did get higher education, but it does seem to fit. Cheerilee is apparently the one teacher for all of Ponyville, and there aren't any older students at the schoolhouse.
If we assume they've been working since around middle-school age, the other bearers' positions in life aren't that unexpected.
Also, was reviewing the previous chapter and found:
All but Applejack lived alone at theseries start, with their own houses/property.
Rarity owned a succesful business.
Applejack ran the farm (success, debatable).
Rainbow Dash was a national level star athlete and basicly the boss (or close to) of local pegasus population when it came to running the weather.
Pinkie Pie was a (an apprentice?) baker and possibly ran a business as a party organizer.
I'm not sure what age they are supposed to be, but they clearly are past middle/high school age.
One of three things is happening A) people just start living life really young in Equestria on account of the target audience B) Twilight was significantly younger than her entire friend group C) Twilight is a full adult and got heavily de-aged when going to the human world to match her local counterpart.
Personally C feels the least likely, and I didn't get the impression that there were significant age gaps between the Mane Six.
I got the impression of recent high school graduate/early college age. Rarity's business seemed fairly new, Rainbow Dash wasn't national-level until later in the show, and Pinkie Pie was an employee.
Though, I don't think Equestria has universal education beyond Elementary School ages. Twilight didn't really think about it when she went to the human world because she was one of the few who actually did get higher education, but it does seem to fit. Cheerilee is apparently the one teacher for all of Ponyville, and there aren't any older students at the schoolhouse.
If we assume they've been working since around middle-school age, the other bearers' positions in life aren't that unexpected.
Rarity's business may be new, but it is established and Rariy at no point comes of as someone with no idea what she is doing the way someone just beginning probably would.
RD was national level, maybe not at the top of the level, but still up there.
One of three things is happening A) people just start living life really young in Equestria on account of the target audience B) Twilight was significantly younger than her entire friend group C) Twilight is a full adult and got heavily de-aged when going to the human world to match her local counterpart.
Personally C feels the least likely, and I didn't get the impression that there were significant age gaps between the Mane Six.
Considering how the main cast are depicted, i would actually think C most likely.
It's not like time and age manipulation are beyond magic.
Yes, the target audience is young, but that doesn ot mean the cast has to be. One of the reasons MLP:FiM was such a success was because it did not look down on its audience.
If the cast had to be the age of the target audience, i would also expect the casts activities be more in line with their audience, which is not the case.
I was of the opinion that they were young adults.at the start of the series. However the mirror actually made them human teens cuz Sunset went in years before twilight and still appeared to be the same age as twi. Heck the dazzlings went in centuries prior and still looked and acted like teenagers.
Anyway the mirror is wack pocket dimension or something and ages Don't matter there, you are placed at optimal high-school drama age or are an adult who can't affect the plot :>
The mirror gives you the age needed for the plot.
Movie was high school drama, therefore the cast are high school age.
The main series never makes it clear what anyones ages are, because that is not important.
All we have are context clues which are going to leave it rather vague.
Rarity's business may be new, but it is established and Rariy at no point comes of as someone with no idea what she is doing the way someone just beginning probably would.
RD was national level, maybe not at the top of the level, but still up there.
Going by my estimated numbers, Rarity has been working for ~5 years and then maybe started her own business ~1 year pre-show. That's plenty of time to gain experience. Gotta love that child labor! She's also basically parenting her sister, considering how rarely their parents show up.
If you're counting athletes not at the top level, well, college football stars IRL are also national level.
Don't the ponies manually control their entire climate anyway? They don't do weather forecasting, they do weather scheduling. (Though yes, the sun's movement is definitely important)
