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Illuminating Invitation (MLP: FiM AU)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Random832 said:
Clarification doesn't happen on its own. If her rulings on edge cases do not come with explanations then - nevermind that the rulings themselves may not actually be 100% consistent with each other - it won't actually be possible for someone to just look at the rulings and figure out which unique facts about each case led to her ruling one way or the other.

I'm somewhat disappointed, incidentally, that the author took the easy way out of having the cult leader not be a true believer.
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Celestia is right there. If people believe her reasoning is insufficiently explained they can just ask her for clarifications on edge cases and codify those decisions. Celestia probably does it herself anyway just to make sure her rulings are consistent.

I don't see how it is the easy way out. If Corona Graph was a legitimate Celestia worshipper or just cared for the community and wasn't insane then this whole situation wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Celestia has the power to get ponies living in communes. Celestia is not using this power to put people in communes or encourage people to live in communes. It does not follow that Celestia wants people to be made to live in communes. It also does not follow that you should avoid worker protection regulations by making people do "voluntary" work in exchange for just room and board.

If you do want to setup a commune or worker union then there is little legitimate justification for setting up in the middle of nowhere. A working commune will still need supplies, trade and contact with the rest of civilization.
 
MrCogmor said:
I don't see how it is the easy way out. If Corona Graph was a legitimate Celestia worshipper or just cared for the community and wasn't insane then this whole situation wouldn't have happened in the first place.
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We didn't know any of details before this chapter, only that it was about a Celestia Cult exploiting it's members. It wasn't unreasonable to expect that the leadership might genuinely think that they were doing the right thing. Random832 was presumably hoping to read about a novel problem that could only occur in Equestria and was disappointed that the scenario was so cliche.
 
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The Mad Ghoul said:
We didn't know any of details before this chapter, only that it was about a Celestia Cult exploiting it's members. It wasn't unreasonable to expect that the leadership might genuinely think that they were doing the right thing. Random832 was presumably hoping to read about a novel problem that could only occur in Equestria and was disappointed that the scenario was so cliche.
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It is unreasonable. Again Celestia is right there and has been for a 1000 years. There isn't a good reason for a religious schism when you can just ask your God to clarify issues of doctrine and they'll give a proper answer back.

If you portray Corona Graph as in the right and Night Flurry as just an old fuddy duddy then you end up with pro-cult propaganda. That's a problem because cults abuse people like this in real life.
 
CATSPIRACY THEORIES AT 10AM

Six elements of harmony!

Sunset

Celestia

Cadence

Twilight

Voice

Corporal Needle
 
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Kaizuki said:
CATSPIRACY THEORIES AT 10AM

Six elements of harmony!

Sunset

Celestia

Cadence

Twilight

Voice

Corporal Needle
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Ah, but which is which? Aside from Sunset obviously being Kindness as she is a wonderful mare who can do no wrong according to four out of four terrified ponies we interviewed.
 
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Celestia is honesty, of course, because she would never even imagine witholding information from ponies, let alone telling an untruth. :V
 
ok I want to be more clear about what I was hoping for since people are misunderstanding me

The fact that the cult was actually exploitative and hypocritical in its own claimed ideals (regardless of if it's correct or sincere in its beliefs about what Celestia would want, an entirely separate question) means a lost opportunity to explore things like generational wealth disparities that clearly exist in Equestria (there's a damn aristocracy! clearly Celestia either doesn't give a shit or doesn't actually have the power to change that), questioning the premise that the people who had more money or other wealth before they joined the cult, and therefore benefit the most from a ruling forcing them to get more money back when they leave than others who had brought in less, had actually earned that wealth at all.

But instead we get "i can feel your greed with my magical alicorn senses, so i know you're just in this for yourself"
 
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Cadence is Magic, obviously. Why would events need to hold her back so much if she weren't?

Edit: Can you imagine how absolutely furious happy Sunset would be if Cadence actually got the Element of Magic?
 
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Random832 said:
ok I want to be more clear about what I was hoping for since people are misunderstanding me

The fact that the cult was actually exploitative and hypocritical in its own claimed ideals (regardless of if it's correct or sincere in its beliefs about what Celestia would want, an entirely separate question) means a lost opportunity to explore things like generational wealth disparities that clearly exist in Equestria (there's a damn aristocracy! clearly Celestia either doesn't give a shit or doesn't actually have the power to change that), questioning the premise that the people who had more money or other wealth before they joined the cult, and therefore benefit the most from a ruling forcing them to get more money back when they leave than others who had brought in less, had actually earned that wealth at all.

But instead we get "i can feel your greed with my magical alicorn senses, so i know you're just in this for yourself"
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This is a comedy approaching crackfic, deep exploration of the aristocratic/capitalist society of Equestria, and how it is clearly modelled after, and influenced by, real world capitalism, is a bit much to expect.

For all its optimism, Equestria has a very stratified society, with hereditary aristocracy, for profit healthcare, and relatively low social mobility (because if social mobility was not low, aristocracy would not be such a major deal).
And clearly Celestia, and before the whole, thing, Luna, have not done much if anything about it.
There has been, and will be in the future, digs at the aristocrats, and obvious faults in Equestrian society, but deep exploration is unlikely to happen i think.
 
Valmond said:
This is a comedy approaching crackfic, deep exploration of the aristocratic/capitalist society of Equestria, and how it is clearly modelled after, and influenced by, real world capitalism, is a bit much to expect.

For all its optimism, Equestria has a very stratified society, with hereditary aristocracy, for profit healthcare, and relatively low social mobility (because if social mobility was not low, aristocracy would not be such a major deal).
And clearly Celestia, and before the whole, thing, Luna, have not done much if anything about it.
There has been, and will be in the future, digs at the aristocrats, and obvious faults in Equestrian society, but deep exploration is unlikely to happen i think.
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When was Equestria shown to have for profit healthcare?
 
Valmond said:
There has been, and will be in the future, digs at the aristocrats, and obvious faults in Equestrian society, but deep exploration is unlikely to happen i think.
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Honestly I mostly wanted to see Sunset confronted with the possibility that her snap judgement, arrogantly made before even hearing any arguments, was at least in part wrong, even if the conclusion ultimately did end up being that the cult is misguided.

Maybe even have the ruling end up being the same [all the assets being in the leaders name doesn't actually mean they were being used for her personal gain, after all, some people just aren't good at structuring a legal entity] and just leave her wondering "but why didn't I sense any of that 'greasiness'?"
 
Random832 said:
Honestly I mostly wanted to see Sunset confronted with the possibility that her snap judgement, arrogantly made before even hearing any arguments, was at least in part wrong, even if the conclusion ultimately did end up being that the cult is misguided.

Maybe even have the ruling end up being the same [all the assets being in the leaders name doesn't actually mean they were being used for her personal gain, after all, some people just aren't good at structuring a legal entity] and just leave her wondering "but why didn't I sense any of that 'greasiness'?"
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I would have enjoyed her learning why some ponies might want to come plead directly to Celestia, and maybe see her confront her snap judgement not being as good as she thought, sure.
But i'm quite happy with a cult leader being slapped down and Sunset starting to learn about Luna, and seeing Sunset show more empathy and kindness than most, including in this instance Celestia, towards the local minority group.
 
Valmond said:
I would have enjoyed her learning why some ponies might want to come plead directly to Celestia, and maybe see her confront her snap judgement not being as good as she thought, sure.
But i'm quite happy with a cult leader being slapped down and Sunset starting to learn about Luna, and seeing Sunset show more empathy and kindness than most, including in this instance Celestia, towards the local minority group.
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I mean that probably will happen but this case was not the one for that. Celestia and Cadence had Sunset attend This one because they both thought that she could be helpful and that it would hold her interest. The case that makes Sunset question her snap judgement comes in the future where one she barely even cared about and was there for just because it was sandwiched between two she does want to preside over suddenly demands she start considering facts she was planning on ignoring

Edit; removed an old post that got left in the post box >.>
 
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dragonx99 said:
tribe of hippogriffs that lived nearish to but not within Equestria which are considered by everyone, themselves included afaik, to be like, half-pony.
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This is incredibly poorly remembered, but I think that hippogriffs in MLP are a result of crossbreeding between griffins and actual ponys, so they are literally half-pony.
 
Valmond said:
And clearly Celestia, and before the whole, thing, Luna, have not done much if anything about it.
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We don't actually know how much Luna tried to prevent it. 1000 years is more than enough time for whatever efforts Luna had made in that direction to fall apart (Celestia clearly doesn't care about preventing the Unicorn aristocracy, her school being unicorn-only definitely doesn't help)

I've seen a few fics have Luna's rebellion be more of a civil war motivated by the wealth disparity and lacking social mobility (of course her losing just made everything worse). This isn't supported by canon though AFAIK, that pretty much entirely has it as Luna being socially isolated and ignored by both her sister and her subjects.

Kaizuki said:
CATSPIRACY THEORIES AT 10AM

Six elements of harmony!

Sunset

Celestia

Cadence

Twilight

Voice

Corporal Needle
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Magic/Friendship: Twilight Sparkle (Sorry Sunset, but Twilight's just better than you)
Loyalty: Corporal Needle (you don't get into the royal guard without having strong loyalty to the crown)
Honesty: Sunset (she's never afraid to share her true feelings about somepony)
Generosity: Celestia (she works and works but there's never enough of herself to give to her country)
Laughter: Cadence (her jokes might be bad but at least she tries)
Kindness: Voice (she's clearly one of the nicest outsiders ever. Considered laughter but she's seeking laughs while she's already kind)
 
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Viewer Omake: War Regalia
  • Apocrypha
    • Alivaril said:
    We all stared at the pink, heart-shaped, Celestia-sized Fire of Friendship that Cadance accidentally created in the middle of Twilight's living room. Turns out that getting the Alicorn of Love to cast a fire spell came with side effects. I really should have seen it coming.
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    War Regalia

    I had had a brilliant idea. A powerful idea.

    Cadence took only a little bit of convincing. Once I pointed out the myriad historical events involving malicious creatures nopony wished to leave unsmote, she came around fast enough.

    The help took a little bit more work. Getting Celestia's measurements from the royal Tailor without disclosing what we were doing was a concern of national security, and besides, Cadence and I had every right to access that information. Cadence insisting on apologizing even after I said please and thank you was entirely unnecessary.

    But eventually we had everything we needed. Under powerful wards, Cadence and I held a dozen lessons on enchanting and forgework while Celestia was preoccupied with Day Court.

    And at last, our work was complete.





    Celestia stared at the neon pink Celestia-shaped Fire of Friendship occupying a new pedestal in the strongroom of the royal armory.

    "It's revolutionary, see?" Sunset cheered. "Cadence made a big old blob of Fire, and we molded it into a suit of armor, then we hooked that up with a liner and enchanted that! So you teleport into it, and the liner enchantment handles the Fire for you, and then nopony could ever even TRY to hurt Mom!"
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Kaizuki said:
    War Regalia

    I had had a brilliant idea. A powerful idea.

    Cadence took only a little bit of convincing. Once I pointed out the myriad historical events involving malicious creatures nopony wished to leave unsmote, she came around fast enough.

    The help took a little bit more work. Getting Celestia's measurements from the royal Tailor without disclosing what we were doing was a concern of national security, and besides, Cadence and I had every right to access that information. Cadence insisting on apologizing even after I said please and thank you was entirely unnecessary.

    But eventually we had everything we needed. Under powerful wards, Cadence and I held a dozen lessons on enchanting and forgework while Celestia was preoccupied with Day Court.

    And at last, our work was complete.





    Celestia stared at the neon pink Celestia-shaped Fire of Friendship occupying a new pedestal in the strongroom of the royal armory.

    "It's revolutionary, see?" Sunset cheered. "Cadence made a big old blob of Fire, and we molded it into a suit of armor, then we hooked that up with a liner and enchanted that! So you teleport into it, and the liner enchantment handles the Fire for you, and then nopony could ever even TRY to hurt Mom!"
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    There's that brilliant archmage we all know and love. She's always coming up with great ideas!
     
    So, using Granny Smith's hip replacement as a springboard.
    Now there's a sentence.
    It is interesting how much world building can be completely unintentional. Like Equestria's healthcare system, what little we see of it.
    Applejack worrying about being able to afford Granny Smith's hip replacement, probably makes perfect sense to someone who lives in the US, or another country without socialized medicine.
    But for someone who lives in a nation that does have socialized healthcare, it can easily stand out as establishing something.

    In one single comment, the series has established that healthcare is not guaranteed, or if it is guaranteed, that guarantee is limited/rationed and those limits can be sidestepped with wealth.
    Equestria was created by people living in a specific culture, and it shows, and it can be interesting to wonder how much of that is intentional, and how much not.
     
    Valmond said:
    Applejack worrying about being able to afford Granny Smith's hip replacement, probably makes perfect sense to someone who lives in the US, or another country without socialized medicine.
    But for someone who lives in a nation that does have socialized healthcare, it can easily stand out as establishing something.
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    If by "socialized healthcare" you mean a system where you outright can't purchase better access to healthcare, that's very unusual, and really only makes sense from a commitment to prohibiting private provisioning of healthcare entirely rather than merely providing aid to people. (If you mean a system where access to healthcare is unlimited and universal, that doesn't exist anywhere)

    The thing that stands out to me about that line is the assumption that hip replacements are a common enough procedure that a rural farming family would plan to save up for one, which strikes me as more modern then Equestria is broadly depicted as and I would be tempted to ignore it on aesthetic grounds.
     
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