Remove ads

Hybrid Hive: Eat Shard? (Worm/MGLN) (Complete)

Reader mode
MTB said:
Also, tell Armsmaster means 'PRT plant mightwill get to know', tell Minerva doesn't.
Although, if a Minerva > Taylor connection is assumed, the assassination attempts on Taylor wouldn't inspire confidence. Doesn't help if talking to Minerva doesn't trigger Coil but instead the person responsible trying to off Taylor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That all the assassination attempts have failed may inspire confidence - Shadow Stalker and Bakuda might be assumed to also be on the list. Also, Taylor is still out-and-about, running places - that doesn't suggest someone afraid of the next attack.
 
Ace Dreamer said:
That all the assassination attempts have failed may inspire confidence - Shadow Stalker and Bakuda might be assumed to also be on the list. Also, Taylor is still out-and-about, running places - that doesn't suggest someone afraid of the next attack.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
'Had to have Panacea check her up' (iirc)isn't that much confidence inspiring. Sure, Taylor survived so far, but if it was me, I'd like to survive assassination attempts by not being targeted at all.
 
Oh confound it!

We seem to have forgotten about Hess!

I mean I doubt she'll be appearing again, but what happens to her now? It's not like the BirdCage is an option.
 
From her bit in the last interlude, probably quite a bit was her shard. Even canon implies that much of her behavor is due to her shard.
 
She still had free will, regardless of how the shard was affecting her. Her shard might have predesposed her to be a monster. However Sophia chose to be one. Just as how in canon Taylor's shard might have pushed her to be more aggressive, but she chose to become a villain. She made each choice along the way, for good or ill. And that can't be handwaved away with "but her shard affected her mind". Hell, look at Bakuda. Her shard might have pushed her towards arrogance. But the woman chose to go on destructive rampages.
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
She still had free will, regardless of how the shard was affecting her. Her shard might have predesposed her to be a monster. However Sophia chose to be one. Just as how in canon Taylor's shard might have pushed her to be more aggressive, but she chose to become a villain. She made each choice along the way, for good or ill. And that can't be handwaved away with "but her shard affected her mind". Hell, look at Bakuda. Her shard might have pushed her towards arrogance. But the woman chose to go on destructive rampages.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure how free Sophia's will was in this context. The only metaphor I can think of is 'person who was given drugs, but did not know that they were on drugs' (as opposed to someone who took them on purpose, or who was drugged and realised that they were). How much blame should be assigned her depends very much on how badly the shard affected her judgement.
 
Prince Charon said:
I'm not sure how free Sophia's will was in this context. The only metaphor I can think of is 'person who was given drugs, but did not know that they were on drugs' (as opposed to someone who took them on purpose, or who was drugged and realised that they were). How much blame should be assigned her depends very much on how badly the shard affected her judgement.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, given that Scion was surprised how aggressive [BROADCAST] was being when paired with Jack Slash, and how a great many parahumans turn out fairly decent and not sociopathic...
Plus, being drugged or drunk isn't considered an excuse for injuring people in car accidents or the like. Your responsibility if you find yourself having difficulty driving for whatever reason is to pull over. There's a reason trigger events are often excused, they haven't had time to calm down. Sophia had years to get her head on straight and refused to even see there was a problem.
 
Prince Charon said:
I'm not sure how free Sophia's will was in this context. The only metaphor I can think of is 'person who was given drugs, but did not know that they were on drugs' (as opposed to someone who took them on purpose, or who was drugged and realised that they were). How much blame should be assigned her depends very much on how badly the shard affected her judgement.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

By all accounts from canon and this story, Sophia's shard didn't affect her judgment. It affected her temperment to make her more aggressive. Here's the thing though, aggression can be channeled in a number of helpful ways. And a number of non-destructive ways, even if they are less helpful. Sophia chose to channel her aggression the way she did. She could have channeled it into her running, or debating, or any number of ways other then "hurt people because I think they are beneath me". Her whole "predator/prey" belief? That's more a justification to excuse her actions and probably not a direct result of her shard. Her shard might have ramped up aggression, but it didn't turn her into a budding sociopath.
 
Dinode said:
Well, given that Scion was surprised how aggressive [BROADCAST] was being when paired with Jack Slash, and how a great many parahumans turn out fairly decent and not sociopathic...
Plus, being drugged or drunk isn't considered an excuse for injuring people in car accidents or the like. Your responsibility if you find yourself having difficulty driving for whatever reason is to pull over. There's a reason trigger events are often excused, they haven't had time to calm down. Sophia had years to get her head on straight and refused to even see there was a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's because it's generally assumed that you should know that you've been impaired. If a lawyer were somehow able to convince a jury that the accused was genuinely unaware that they were impaired before it was too late, they may well be found not guilty, or get a much-reduced sentence.

FaerieKnight79 said:
By all accounts from canon and this story, Sophia's shard didn't affect her judgment. It affected her temperment to make her more aggressive. Here's the thing though, aggression can be channeled in a number of helpful ways. And a number of non-destructive ways, even if they are less helpful. Sophia chose to channel her aggression the way she did. She could have channeled it into her running, or debating, or any number of ways other then "hurt people because I think they are beneath me". Her whole "predator/prey" belief? That's more a justification to excuse her actions and probably not a direct result of her shard. Her shard might have ramped up aggression, but it didn't turn her into a budding sociopath.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That may be the case, but I'm not sure you can separate 'temperment' that far from 'judgement' in this context. She triggered when she was about twelve or thirteen, I think, so her judgement was already compromised, and then she's getting something that's pushing on her brain (IIRC, more than average for a cape, if that's not fanon). Probably not a sociopath, but I would say that she had diminished capacity, and should either be sent to a mental hospital rather than a prison, or required to get mental help while in juvenile detention. This is especially the case if she shows a notable change in personality after losing her power.
 
rdmcmains said:
Has Taylor had The Talk? Danny was pretty out of it for a couple years after Annette died, and Taylor was about Missy's age at that point...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You are forgetting Kurt and Lacey. I don't know if it's just fannon but they are like her godparents or non-biological Aunt and Uncle so they could have stepped up. You also forgot the summer camp she went to. A Camp Councillor could have too.
 
Shirouyuji said:
You are forgetting Kurt and Lacey. I don't know if it's just fannon but they are like her godparents or non-biological Aunt and Uncle so they could have stepped up. You also forgot the summer camp she went to. A Camp Councillor could have too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Depending on when Taylor had her first period, Zoe Barnes might've handled it as well.
 
Taylor was 12 when Annette died, but they lived in a place with 2 kidnap/rape gangs (and a bunch of nazis) therefore it is likely her mom may well have given her the talk despite Taylor being a little young for it.
 
Prince Charon said:
That may be the case, but I'm not sure you can separate 'temperment' that far from 'judgement' in this context. She triggered when she was about twelve or thirteen, I think, so her judgement was already compromised, and then she's getting something that's pushing on her brain (IIRC, more than average for a cape, if that's not fanon). Probably not a sociopath, but I would say that she had diminished capacity, and should either be sent to a mental hospital rather than a prison, or required to get mental help while in juvenile detention. This is especially the case if she shows a notable change in personality after losing her power.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except legally, they kind of do? I have legitimate medical reasons for why I have a short temper. Actually, in the past it's been a berserker rage but I've mellowed a lot since then. If I do completely lose it, I frequently don't remember what I did afterwords. But legally, it's entirely my ass on the line if I let myself get to that point. If I hurt someone while in a blind rage, it's me that is probably going to get into trouble. Now, considering my life long struggle with my temper you would think I'm an angry person. I'm not, I'm actually rather chill. I try not to swear, am friendly, and generally you'd probably never notice my rage issues if you spent any length of time around me. And when I do feel my control slipping, I try to channel that anger into non-destructive outlets.

Sophia doesn't even have the excuse of "I can't remember what happened when I lose control". What the law cares about is "is she capable of understanding Right from Wrong". And the answer is yes, she is capable of doing so. She's well aware of the fact that what she's doing is wrong, and that she'd get in trouble for it if discovered. Her bullshit "predator/prey" belief gives her justification for doing thigns she knows are wrong and illegal, but she is mentally competent enough to know right from wrong. She might need psychiatric help, but her issues don't remove her culpability. Hell, from the last interlude of this story it sounds like she still has her predator/prey belief system, it's just the shard driven aggression that is gone.
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
Sophia doesn't even have the excuse of "I can't remember what happened when I lose control". What the law cares about is "is she capable of understanding Right from Wrong". And the answer is yes, she is capable of doing so. She's well aware of the fact that what she's doing is wrong, and that she'd get in trouble for it if discovered. Her bullshit "predator/prey" belief gives her justification for doing thigns she knows are wrong and illegal, but she is mentally competent enough to know right from wrong. She might need psychiatric help, but her issues don't remove her culpability. Hell, from the last interlude of this story it sounds like she still has her predator/prey belief system, it's just the shard driven aggression that is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The law is somewhat in a mess about human choice... There are assumptions about being a 'rational agent' mixed in with ideas about 'continuity of identity'. Scientific evidence strongly suggests that rationality is something humans often don't have time for - normally, learned (automatic) behaviour is what's used (see Type 1 and Type 2 thinking; though I suspect that's a bit too absolutist). Also, identity can be rather conditional on mental state, drugs, etc. - to some extent who you are can vary by your physiological state.

I've met people who seem to be physically/socially functional, but, they don't appear to have a coherent identity. They have a set of reactions, learned behaviour, but it doesn't seem to all join-up, fit together. This can confuse others, who may think they're a criminal genius, a brilliant liar, but basically they seem to be broken. Without even the predator/prey model, just getting by with what seems to work, tell people what they seem to want to hear, and do what gives them minimum pain/trouble. People with a history of abuse may be at most risk of this sort of mental mess.

Yes, people can change over time, learn coping strategies, signs that they are risking a mental state they'd prefer to avoid, and how to head it off. And, people can learn to self-observe, things like mindfulness. But, teenagers tend to be a mental mess at the best of times (all those varying hormones, and that neural pruning...), and Shadow Stalker didn't appear to be getting the effective support she needed ('Worm' - funny that).
 
In addition, I would say that Shadow Stalker might not actually be able to understand Right from Wrong, at least not in such broad terms. Her mindset is that, basically, if you're strong, you're allowed to do whatever. If you're weak, you take it. And the only reason she went vigilante instead of full blown psychopath is that it was easier.
 
Even within her Predator/Prey beliefs, she actively chooses to torment those she thinks of as "prey" rather then guarding them. Of course her belief falls apart when you stop to consider that predators don't hunt just for the sake of hunting. They don't injure or torment the helpless just for the sake of doing so. They hunt because if they don't hunt, they don't eat. But when not hungry, a predator doesn't continue to hunt. In fact, it's possible to find a predator drinking from the same watering hole as it's usual prey at the same time. And more then a few predators are highly social creatures. They have to be in order to survive.

Sophia likes to think of herself as a wolf, and yet wolves usually don't hunt alone. Nor do they torment others for the sake of tormenting them. They also don't attack each other for no reason. Or as Kippling put it, "the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack."
 
FaerieKnight79 said:
Sophia likes to think of herself as a wolf, and yet wolves usually don't hunt alone. Nor do they torment others for the sake of tormenting them. They also don't attack each other for no reason. Or as Kippling put it, "the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, a fundamental misunderstanding of how human society works... It works by most of the people, most of the time, doing what's needed to keep it going on working, even if they aren't being watched. Cooperation is needed, for the 'clever' to be able to compete, or exploit the situation. But, you also need the competition to provide the flexibility to handle how things change, over time. Comes down to 'balance', like so many things do...
 
Aaand my referencing of Kippling has caused me to dive down a rabbit hole regarding the following joke:
"Do you like Kippling?"
"I don't know, I've never kippled."

This joke or variations of it has apparently been going around for nearly two centuries now.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top