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Hybrid Hive: Eat Shard? (Worm/MGLN) (Complete)

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Isnt my realname said:
I think possibly we are stepping outside the bounds of taste and appropriateness, here. Can we stop, please?
Thank you.
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EDIT: SARCASM:
What are you talking about?
Have you never had a cat fall asleep on you and warm you up insanely?
I was talking about that... and cats don't like baths so Levi as a cat would be uncomfortable...

Seriously, am I missing something?
EDIT: /SARCASM
 
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Jacen1 said:
So, the Manton limit would not apply. The Endbringers are conserving energy. If it were possible to do so, simply creating a vortex inside a person's skull (for example) would take far less energy then the abilities Leviathan usually uses to kill someone. There are sources that suggest there is a minimum amount of water he can affect.

I'd say there is some compelling data that suggests he can't manipulate the water inside a person's body, regardless of his sandbagging, simply due to most people being too small.
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How would instantly killing large numbers of hosts help Leviathan accomplish his primary objective of being a worthy opponent for Eidolon and secondary objective of isolating and increasing numbers of crisis points in host populations?

If the Endbringers wanted to kill people, all of humanity would be extinct within days of Behemoth's activation.
 
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Neruz said:
How would instantly killing large numbers of hosts help Leviathan accomplish his primary objective of being a worthy opponent for Eidolon and secondary objective of isolating and increasing numbers of crisis points in host populations?
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The same way Behemoth's "kill field" does. By limiting the range he uses it at, and/or just targeting those that would either inspire Eidolon to fight harder or otherwise prove disruptive to his goals. For extra effect, target those civilians that lack the potential to trigger to help those that can do so. Thus both devastating existing social networks and creating personal crisis points.

Let's face it, if destroying one of the main islands of Japan, with likely an at least eight digit casualty count is allowed, then having his own kill field effect certainly would be as well. It would be nowhere near as costly in energy use, yet still an effective way of making himself a worthy opponent.
 
Jacen1 said:
The same way Behemoth's "kill field" does. By limiting the range he uses it at, and/or just targeting those that would either inspire Eidolon to fight harder or otherwise prove disruptive to his goals. For extra effect, target those civilians that lack the potential to trigger to help those that can do so. Thus both devastating existing social networks and creating personal crisis points.

Let's face it, if destroying one of the main islands of Japan, with likely at an least eight digit casualty count is allowed, then having his own kill field effect certainly would be as well. It would be nowhere near as costly in energy use, yet still an effective way of making himself a worthy opponent.
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Behemoth already has a 'kill field' though, repeating that effect achieves nothing of value; anything that can be gained from the use of a 'kill field' can be done by Behemoth.

Sinking large chunks of landmass over extended periods of time serves as a 'soft' time limit on encounters, similar but different to how Behemoth shows up some distance away from his 'target' and then stomps slowly towards it overland despite being entirely capable of just coming up underneath it. All of the Endbringers have a similar 'soft' time limit effect in play; Behemoth reaches his 'target' and goes nuclear, Leviathan rearranges the geography, Simurgh has her scream, etc. Something that forces a given encounter to end at a certain point if Eidolon fails to meet the challenge.
 
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Jordisk said:
So...Hive and Taylor are recreating the Mana Conversion Affinity unique skills as spell equations? They are already working on Lightning Affinity, so now they need Fire and Speed. I don't know about any other conversion affinities, though.

Also, does Hive have any records of Summoning magic or Boost magic? The first is basically forming contracts with beings and summoning them to fight, and the later is enhancing the body with mana. The second one is probably more useful, but if she gets some allies being able to summon them at need would be useful. Or get Danny out of danger by summoning him.
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This is an assumption, but if those are forms of magic not part of the basic package, then the answer is no. None of Hive's initial records survived her rebuild; that's why all of the testing. Her and Taylor are almost working from scratch at this point.
 
jwizard39 said:
This is an assumption, but if those are forms of magic not part of the basic package, then the answer is no. None of Hive's initial records survived her rebuild; that's why all of the testing. Her and Taylor are almost working from scratch at this point.
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Even if they don't actually know about those affinities and other Rare Skills, they can effectively manage to recreated them in their spells simply by making a spell that does the thing.

Also, Hive lost MOST of her records and data when she was damaged, and lost more with her rebuild. She did however retain enough to recreate combat magic from first principles, some media of bullets, beams, Knight's Armor, and the like, and knowledge on how to create the Linker Core tech Taylor has.
 
JumperPrime said:
The double entendre seems to have gone straight over your head. perhaps that's for the best
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Or I just gracefully got myself out of a sticky situation?
Sarcasm doesn't come through very well in writing.

EDIT: Still waiting for the moment when Tay accidentally invents an orbital artillery spell...
Probably in the middle of the Levi fight.
 
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Fragnostic said:
Sarcasm doesn't come through very well in writing.
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Yeah, you pretty much have to explicitly tag it with fake bbcode [/sarcasm] or something like that. I've seen "Comment./s" too. I guess the "eye roll" smiley could also work, but I can never remember the code to insert it and block all scripting by default so the buttons and popups for the reply editor don't appear.
 
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Fragnostic said:
Or I just gracefully got myself out of a sticky situation?
Sarcasm doesn't come through very well in writing.

EDIT: Still waiting for the moment when Tay accidentally invents an orbital artillery spell...
Probably in the middle of the Levi fight.
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If you aren't trolling at this point, then I highly doubt you're American, as almost the entirety of that chain of posts was loaded with widespread, well known sexual metaphors, to the point that even I notice them, and I tend to miss that stuff if I'm not looking for it. Being asexual and mildly autistic means I have made a number of comments over the years that I had no idea at the time were interpreted as sexual in nature. Or, for a really recent one, I linked a movie that in my head was a comedy that had sex in it, only to have it pointed out to me that it was an NC-17 movie.
 
Wyrd said:
If you aren't trolling at this point, then I highly doubt you're American, as almost the entirety of that chain of posts was loaded with widespread, well known sexual metaphors, to the point that even I notice them, and I tend to miss that stuff if I'm not looking for it. Being asexual and mildly autistic means I have made a number of comments over the years that I had no idea at the time were interpreted as sexual in nature. Or, for a really recent one, I linked a movie that in my head was a comedy that had sex in it, only to have it pointed out to me that it was an NC-17 movie.
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I am in fact not American. But I've spent almost my entire formative and adult years immersed in the highly Americanized internet culture. So I am aware of a lot of the mainstream innuendoes.
Some references might go over my head simply because I'm not watching the shows which gave rise to them.

The comment in which I claimed ignorance was both sarcastic and a chance to propagate stereotypes.

Now let's not keep this derail any longer and get back to speculating about Taylor's incoming meeting with Leviathan.

PS. I'm gonna add a sarcasm disclaimer in that post to avoid future misinterpretations.
 
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Canon Interpretations
  • Informational
    • For the purposes of this story I am going to be interpreting a number of things from canon in specific ways. I figured that writing some of this down would help with some of the recent discussions.

    Anything that hasn't shown up in the story is subject to change if I decide that where I was originally planning on going with a detail is stupid or if some other interpretation is more amusing.

    Warning Shards Endbringers Triggering Entities
    • Some of this could be seen as spoilers. Look at the other tabs at your own risk.
      • Properly deployed shards have one primary version of Earth that they were deployed to. They expand to designated secondary Earths as they grow/collect resources.
      • "Buds" are nothing more than additional connection profiles on the primary shard. (For those that read Mauling Snarks: This is obviously different than how buds are handled there.)
      • Limit controls (Manton-style or otherwise) are all provided through the "slave circuit" and aren't actually part of the core shard software itself.
        • Manton limts and instructions for erasing the trigger vision were added to intentionally deployed shards through a basic data packet
        • Eden dropped a new restriction set onto Path to Victory's slave circuit to implement the last-minute blocks applied there
      • All Shards have what amounts to the same capabilities at a low level, but run different software. This allows "pings" off of other shards, which are nothing more than grabbing a software module or two.
      • Some shards provide services for other shards when needed, though how they do so will vary.
        • Aisha/Imp's canon shard provides software and guidance for erasing trigger visions from those who get Zion's shards
        • Information Gathering abilities feed back into Precog and similar shards in order to improve simulations
        • Many of these are limited by where they originated. Properly deployed Eden shards use a similar but different method of memory erasure than deployed Zion shards. Dinah's precog gets information from different sources than Coil's. That kind of thing. While not used for every cycle, this allows for the two Entities to more easily align themselves as opponents to one another instead of as partners, and even when they're partners they get different points of view from what might otherwise be identical powers.
      • Cauldron vials connect individuals to a primary shard but essentially force a "ping" effect from other shards mixed in to the formula. The primary shard may not be the one they expect it to be. Their stabilizer agents are essentially partially configured but not deployed Eden shards that had been taught "connect to Human" but hadn't had other restrictions applied yet. They may or may not have realized that they've invalidated some of their old experimental results through this through the "ping" effect providing more of their target shards connection profiles.
      • Drinking only part of a Cauldron Vial is likely to prevent the "ping" effect from working properly and connect you to the wrong primary shard.
      • Path to Victory is an accidentally but properly deployed Eden shard. It was used as part of the "figure out connect to human" dance on Eden's end and thus had that programming available when it connected to Fortuna.
      • Deployed shards have a limited ability to "fight back" against something attacking them directly. This doesn't work against Hive grabbing them through a host connection and dragging them down into her internal processing systems, but would work if an attempt was made to do that by visiting one of the planets that the shard was on and interacting with it from there.
      • Shards like the Butcher's and Glaistig Uaine's generally "fake" the connection profile of the powers that they collect, though this isn't always perfect. For certain kinds of powers there are intentional differences. Eidolon, for example, would not have his original power set available to either. In canon Glaistig gained the ability to "run" more powers in tandem, and that would be the same here. I'm going to say that the Butcher would see a general improvement in all other secondary abilities gained from previous hosts.
      • The Endbringers had Manton-style Limits applied to prevent them from being too powerful compared to Humans. This requires some examples and explanations:
        • Behemoth's kill aura is actually a radiation field and does not directly manipulate humans within it. Those immune to the radiation can thus enter the kill aura.
        • Leviathan can't directly manipulate water inside of Humans. This has nothing to do with purity or volume of the water.
        • Ziz can't directly tear people to pieces with telekinesis. Mental manipulations are considered a distinct ability and any direct mind manipulations on that front use a different ability than her normal telekinesis.
      • The Endbringers are semi-autonomous once activated, and thus do not have constant direct control being applied to them by Eidolon's powers. They are limited by base directives that they were given when activated plus the other limits that were more deeply coded into them.
      • Generally, the Endbringers were to be controlled by Eden, but were set up to be able to work with Zion shards as well. This means that Ziz can pull from all shards for precog and power borrowing purposes, Tohu can copy any parahuman, etc.
      • Triggering (through a vial or otherwise) causes a software configuration event on the shard. This includes decoding information that the shard has, assembling a power profile, loading that into memory, and then locking down the rest of the information in the shard to prevent it from being used. Inactive abilities are secured with an encryption key tied to the shard components that Hive identifies as the slave circuit.
      • Once a parahuman has triggered, their brain function becomes partially dependent on the shard connection. Without outside aid, disconnection from the shard will render them braindead at a minimum and is likely to cause their vital bodily functions to shut down entirely.
        • This applies even if the corona pollentia and gemma have moved elsewhere in the body.
        • Hive already knows how to provide said outside aid for properly disconnecting a shard from a human.
      • Entities have a core set of shard-like central control units for specific functions that control the "slave circuits" in their shards
        • A general master control group
        • Secondary groups for managing things that can be left on autopilot, such as trigger events and their own growth
        • Direct pipelines for personal shards that are never normally deployed, used for things like their avatars
      • The central control units tend to be clumped together, and a broad attack to them will likely take most of them out. This is part of why they lock themselves away, because they don't want the weak point exposed.
      • When trading shards, they have to take the time and effort to re-code those "slave circuits", but this is easier for those that originated from the same "line" as Eden/Zion did because very early on an ancestor standardized a "takeover" mechanism for the task. It still isn't instant, as part of the process is re-encoding the entire encrypted shard data set, though the information in the shard is still available during the process as it has to be decrypted first anyway.
     
  • Informational
    • CmptrWz said:
    For the purposes of this story I am going to be interpreting a number of things from canon in specific ways. I figured that writing some of this down would help with some of the recent discussions.
    /snip
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    Is "Will the endbringers go sort-of-dormant should Eidolon die" too spoilery to get a confirmation on in the EB tab? Seems appropriate to ask, given what you've said about semi-autonomous and their canon interpretation.
     
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    HebrideanStarfis said:
    Is "Will the endbringers go sort-of-dormant should Eidolon die" too spoilery to get a confirmation on in the EB tab? Seems appropriate to ask, given what you've said about semi-autonomous and their canon interpretation.
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    They didn't exactly go full dormant in canon, though you could argue that was unusual circumstances to begin with.

    In other words: It probably won't matter in the story either way.
     
    CmptrWz said:
    For the purposes of this story I am going to be interpreting a number of things from canon in specific ways. I figured that writing some of this down would help with some of the recent discussions.

    Anything that hasn't shown up in the story is subject to change if I decide that where I was originally planning on going with a detail is stupid or if some other interpretation is more amusing.

    Warning Shards Endbringers Triggering Entities
    • Some of this could be seen as spoilers. Look at the other tabs at your own risk.
      • Properly deployed shards have one primary version of Earth that they were deployed to. They expand to designated secondary Earths as they grow/collect resources.
      • "Buds" are nothing more than additional connection profiles on the primary shard. (For those that read Mauling Snarks: This is obviously different than how buds are handled there.)
      • Limit controls (Manton-style or otherwise) are all provided through the "slave circuit" and aren't actually part of the core shard software itself.
        • Manton limts and instructions for erasing the trigger vision were added to intentionally deployed shards through a basic data packet
        • Eden dropped a new restriction set onto Path to Victory's slave circuit to implement the last-minute blocks applied there
      • All Shards have what amounts to the same capabilities at a low level, but run different software. This allows "pings" off of other shards, which are nothing more than grabbing a software module or two.
      • Some shards provide services for other shards when needed, though how they do so will vary.
        • Aisha/Imp's canon shard provides software and guidance for erasing trigger visions from those who get Zion's shards
        • Information Gathering abilities feed back into Precog and similar shards in order to improve simulations
        • Many of these are limited by where they originated. Properly deployed Eden shards use a similar but different method of memory erasure than deployed Zion shards. Dinah's precog gets information from different sources than Coil's. That kind of thing. While not used for every cycle, this allows for the two Entities to more easily align themselves as opponents to one another instead of as partners, and even when they're partners they get different points of view from what might otherwise be identical powers.
      • Cauldron vials connect individuals to a primary shard but essentially force a "ping" effect from other shards mixed in to the formula. The primary shard may not be the one they expect it to be. Their stabilizer agents are essentially partially configured but not deployed Eden shards that had been taught "connect to Human" but hadn't had other restrictions applied yet. They may or may not have realized that they've invalidated some of their old experimental results through this through the "ping" effect providing more of their target shards connection profiles.
      • Drinking only part of a Cauldron Vial is likely to prevent the "ping" effect from working properly and connect you to the wrong primary shard.
      • Path to Victory is an accidentally but properly deployed Eden shard. It was used as part of the "figure out connect to human" dance on Eden's end and thus had that programming available when it connected to Fortuna.
      • Deployed shards have a limited ability to "fight back" against something attacking them directly. This doesn't work against Hive grabbing them through a host connection and dragging them down into her internal processing systems, but would work if an attempt was made to do that by visiting one of the planets that the shard was on and interacting with it from there.
      • Shards like the Butcher's and Glaistig Uaine's generally "fake" the connection profile of the powers that they collect, though this isn't always perfect. For certain kinds of powers there are intentional differences. Eidolon, for example, would not have his original power set available to either. In canon Glaistig gained the ability to "run" more powers in tandem, and that would be the same here. I'm going to say that the Butcher would see a general improvement in all other secondary abilities gained from previous hosts.
      • The Endbringers had Manton-style Limits applied to prevent them from being too powerful compared to Humans. This requires some examples and explanations:
        • Behemoth's kill aura is actually a radiation field and does not directly manipulate humans within it. Those immune to the radiation can thus enter the kill aura.
        • Leviathan can't directly manipulate water inside of Humans. This has nothing to do with purity or volume of the water.
        • Ziz can't directly tear people to pieces with telekinesis. Mental manipulations are considered a distinct ability and any direct mind manipulations on that front use a different ability than her normal telekinesis.
      • The Endbringers are semi-autonomous once activated, and thus do not have constant direct control being applied to them by Eidolon's powers. They are limited by base directives that they were given when activated plus the other limits that were more deeply coded into them.
      • Generally, the Endbringers were to be controlled by Eden, but were set up to be able to work with Zion shards as well. This means that Ziz can pull from all shards for precog and power borrowing purposes, Tohu can copy any parahuman, etc.
      • Triggering (through a vial or otherwise) causes a software configuration event on the shard. This includes decoding information that the shard has, assembling a power profile, loading that into memory, and then locking down the rest of the information in the shard to prevent it from being used. Inactive abilities are secured with an encryption key tied to the shard components that Hive identifies as the slave circuit.
      • Once a parahuman has triggered, their brain function becomes partially dependent on the shard connection. Without outside aid, disconnection from the shard will render them braindead at a minimum and is likely to cause their vital bodily functions to shut down entirely.
        • This applies even if the corona pollentia and gemma have moved elsewhere in the body.
        • Hive already knows how to provide said outside aid for properly disconnecting a shard from a human.
      • Entities have a core set of shard-like central control units for specific functions that control the "slave circuits" in their shards
        • A general master control group
        • Secondary groups for managing things that can be left on autopilot, such as trigger events and their own growth
        • Direct pipelines for personal shards that are never normally deployed, used for things like their avatars
      • The central control units tend to be clumped together, and a broad attack to them will likely take most of them out. This is part of why they lock themselves away, because they don't want the weak point exposed.
      • When trading shards, they have to take the time and effort to re-code those "slave circuits", but this is easier for those that originated from the same "line" as Eden/Zion did because very early on an ancestor standardized a "takeover" mechanism for the task. It still isn't instant, as part of the process is re-encoding the entire encrypted shard data set, though the information in the shard is still available during the process as it has to be decrypted first anyway.
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    Is this taking ward info like Victorias Shard into count?
     
    You make me wanting that MpPi continue his Taylor Varga/Mauling canon crossover lol ( and perhaps a Taylor Varga/Hybrid Hive crossover after ;))
     
    Jordisk said:
    Magical Taylor with Nanoha superweapons is nowhere near as OP as Taylor, Brain of the Varga.
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    But still a lot more so than 'I can talk to your power and hit things without touching them'. Even with the addition of Panacea's powers and 'I can understand and fix just about anything', and what she can do with a handgun, there's still no comparison between Maul and Minerva.
     
    rdmcmains said:
    But still a lot more so than 'I can talk to your power and hit things without touching them'. Even with the addition of Panacea's powers and 'I can understand and fix just about anything', and what she can do with a handgun, there's still no comparison between Maul and Minerva.
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    If we take Mauling Canon into account, there is one thing that Maul can do that this Taylor can't: Effectively use Sting.
     
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