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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

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    • So for Kleisthenes, the realization was... the fact that sometimes self-sacrifice isn't enough. Or, rather, she knew that already -- knew that sometimes you can give it your all and still come up short. She was painfully familiar with that. So, rather, it was her deciding that she wouldn't need to always sacrifice or that she had to always sacrifice.
    occipitallobe said:
    It felt unfair. Her sister leapt ahead, and with casual ease had surmounted every obstacle in front of her. For Euphrosyne, she managed to administer the Clan more excellently than any Elder in the last millennia, whereas Kleisthenes had been at best a middling diplomat. The best of a bad bunch, in truth - the Clan did not raise many talented diplomats.
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    She hadn't been able to give that, in the end. It had been Euphrosyne who had saved the old man, the Clan, and her. She wished she knew what her sister had been thinking at that time. There had never been anything Euphrosyne couldn't do.
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    Euphrosyne really was amazing, huh. After the talk about how "Advance fast, or break through easily; pick one!", then comes Euphrosyne who both managed to advance fast... and also managed to be a potential candidate for Nascent Soul in decent time too, huh.

    And Kleisthenes grieves for her sister once again. To lost comrades and family and friends.
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    Wait, I just remembered. Wasn't it said that Manuel loves playing tricks and pranks, but rarely gets to do it because doing it on a clansmen as a Nascent Soul is like bullying? Because a clan member getting attention from a Nascent Soul can be terrifying.

    Which means that Manuel yanking Sheng's chain a little bit... is a sign of Manuel being in an amazingly good mood.

    Or maybe he's decided to shift strategies, and employ exposure therapy --

    "If I haze the Junior often enough, he will grow used enough to it to appreciate them as pranks rather than as just terrifying interactions with a Nascent Soul!"
    occipitallobe said:
    Manuel chuckled, in a rare good mood.

    "Everyone thinks the same thing. Don't worry, I only look into your secrets when you're sleeping and I sneak into your room at night."
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    Yep, definitely in a good mood.

    So. Manuel.

    Worst Santa ever, or best Santa ever?
    occipitallobe said:
    Manuel spoke smugly.

    "I would like to introduce the Clan's new Second Elder, the second Nascent Soul in two hundred years. Kleisthenes Sarantapechos"

    Sheng Yu cursed - out loud, this time.

    All his invasion plans would need to be redone.
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    "Fucking Old Gold, he did that on purpose just to fuck with me!"
    "See, it's working already!"
    occipitallobe said:
    From outside, a cloak fell. A veil that had been before their eyes had been lifted, and Kleisthenes walked into the room like a font of power. It was... overwhelming. The old man never felt like that, he was restrained. Hidden. This... pulsed, demanding and filling their vision, filling every way to sense Qi they possessed.

    Manuel spoke smugly.
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    "Behold. She has risen above and become a legend. The legend that they fear. The legendary Super Sarantapechos!"
     
    occipitallobe said:
    His Jingshen invasion plans had a first draft nearly finished, and the Devil Bee invasion plans had been thrown out several times. They didn't know enough, though Xie Xinya had promised him more intelligence. Since the Great Devilish Strike in the South six months ago it was hard to get anything concrete. He still couldn't believe the Chuan Clan hadn't seen it coming. Old Fish had been known for his slipperiness, but still...
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    Looks like Old Cannibal and his new students may have caught themselves a nice, juicy fish.
     
    Question, does anyone have an idea of how many people are going to which of the 3 Missions these turns?

    My gut feel is that Thousand Song Siege and Joie De Banditisme are probably getting the most takers, with the Hong Xuan debt getting less. But that's... literally just a blind assumption on my part. Backed maybe by vague discord memories.
    occipitallobe said:
    She snorted. Such a thing was more difficult for those with more... complete beliefs, and they advanced more quickly because of them. The paradox of Core Formation. The more quickly you strengthened and built your Core, the harder it would be to shatter it in future. Weak foundations were what you wanted, yet how could you purposefully sabotage your own foundations? These questions had occupied the thoughts of many Core Formation elders.

    Old Alexios had written a book, in fact. Reason and Unreason, he named it. Two hundred years of his scrawling on the truth he sought to find, the truth that transcended even his own Truth. The truth you sought and found wasn't always the truth you wanted, but it was the one you could believe. The truth of the world you sought out over hundreds of years, stumbling in the dark to find hints of what truly undergirded the universe, what actually sat at the heart of all things. What you needed to do in response.
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    You know, there's something I've been wondering when it comes to Cultivation and Cultivators.

    Is there, or was there, a path to Nascent Soul that doesn't incorporate shattering your Core?

    For example, what if the Core->Nascent tribulation was just part of the whole "Deadlock people at World Fusion" scheme that was recently revealed?

    Or maybe not.

    But, well, I've always wondered whether there was a path of Cultivation that went with the approach of "You know what? I'll make an invincible Core! One that can't shatter! One that could even survive Heavenly tribulation!" Conventional wisdom or common sense seems to suggest "Yeah tons of people have tried that. They all died, because that's just not how you do Nascent Soul tribulation. That's not how Cultivation works in this setting."

    But could the One Pillar path be like that? Or the 9th Pillar path? Or one of the Heavenly Treasure prestige special Stages.

    If they both have some kind of non-standard Core stage, then maybe what happens to go from Core to Nascent Soul also differs too.
    occipitallobe said:
    Manuel rubbed his hands together as Xie Xinya started to speak.

    "Wait, Xinya. I have something to announce."

    From outside, a cloak fell. A veil that had been before their eyes had been lifted, and Kleisthenes walked into the room like a font of power. It was... overwhelming. The old man never felt like that, he was restrained. Hidden. This... pulsed, demanding heir attention and filling their vision, overwhelming every way to sense Qi they possessed.

    Manuel spoke, voice smug.
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    Oh right, also -- does Manuel like dramatics and/or liked his monologues or something too? I can't recall if that was a character trait said about him or not. I do remember him monologuing to an unfortunate deceased Seven Divine Sabers Palace disciple. And to... his aurochs, hehe. Because revealing secrets or plans to an audience is, well, you don't do that. :V Not unless you're shit-talking or deceiving the enemy (or shilling your soap products, as the case may be), showing off to friends, or somewhere it's safe to talk.
    Insane-Not-Crazy said:
    It's good to see that our military structure is well in hand for offensive operation. Does Sheng Yu know that in this upcoming invasion the Golden Devils are being supported by the Flood Dragons? Using auxiliary forces will be different from the regimented structure of the Optimatoi
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    No, Manuel has to keep some material in reserve. So that he has something to mess with Sheng Yu some more later on.

    "Wait, we've got Yao for backup on this too?!"
     
    Garlak said:
    Because revealing secrets or plans to an audience is, well, you don't do that.
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    Yes, but a secret revealed is beneficial when your plan is crude and beat stick-y.

    It gives confidence in your idea that brute force is possible and also, it is good to tell the one handling your war plans the general extent of your strength, because it helps inform them what risks are viable.
     
    Yeah so

    Assuming that the Chuan just got deleted, the SPS are going to have a very low level of patience for us fucking over the Jingshen and potentially holding up the spirit stone flow

    When we hit the Jingshen, we're gonna need to finish it quickly and not only bribe the SPS, but also assure them of our intent to burn out the Devil Bees once we get the chance.
     
    The other option is also to simply walk into Jingshen land with Yao in tow and tell Old Jingshen to his face what we know of the situation.

    We have competing interests. They had a plan to fuck us by raising a Third Nascent.

    However now the situation is we got 3 Nascents first. So he is at a disadvantage. Meanwhile this situation also means that their plan to burn their wealth for a fast victory against us isn't doable for them either now.

    Meanwhile Old Cannibal is raising hell and getting ready to come back and eat everyone for round 2. We cant afford to weaken each other now. We cant afford to piss off SPS which doesn't have much patience for either of us pulling shit and ruining the Spirit Stone supply.

    So we agree to de-escalate from the potential war to the knife. We sign a non aggression pact. And then to insure neither Old Cannibal or SPS cave our skulls in. We both work together to fight the Bees.

    They can bankroll our Legions as they thunder out to fight the Bees. While our Nascents stick together to keep Old Cannibal and his students in check.
     
    Deadly Snark said:
    Meanwhile Old Cannibal is raising hell and getting ready to come back and eat everyone for round 2. We cant afford to weaken each other now. We cant afford to piss off SPS which doesn't have much patience for either of us pulling shit and ruining the Spirit Stone supply.

    So we agree to de-escalate from the potential war to the knife. We sign a non aggression pact. And then to insure neither Old Cannibal or SPS cave our skulls in. We both work together to fight the Bees
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    That's a condition I'd considered, but Old Jingshen is a bastard and would work to circumvent that through whatever means. We just can't trust each other to deal in good faith.

    Which is why they'd more than suffice as terms of surrender in the event of the SPS forcing a peace settlement
     
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    TehChron said:
    That's a condition I'd considered, but Old Jingshen is a bastard and would work to circumvent that through whatever means. We just can't trust each other to deal in good faith.

    Which is why they'd more than suffice as terms of surrender in the event of the SPS forcing a peace settlement
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    In which case. Unless we find a good chunk to split off, we should probably go with Old Gold's original plan. Taxes and raids until they either surrender or declare war on us.
     
    Deadly Snark said:
    In which case. Unless we find a good chunk to split off, we should probably go with Old Gold's original plan. Taxes and raids until they either surrender or declare war on us.
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    That was my original plan first...

    But it's no longer needed with the fig leaf of Yaos presence. We're better off striking within the next two turns with her "taking the lead and us merely adhering to our treaty obligations with our ally."

    And we do have a good chunk to split off:

    The rest of the former Cannibal Territories.
     
    TehChron said:
    That was my original plan first...

    But it's no longer needed with the fig leaf of Yaos presence. We're better off striking within the next two turns with her "taking the lead and us merely adhering to our treaty obligations with our ally."

    And we do have a good chunk to split off:

    The rest of the former Cannibal Territories.
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    So long that we explicitly don't touch the trade route that should be doable.
     
    Deadly Snark said:
    So long that we explicitly don't touch the trade route that should be doable.
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    That's the plan, yeah. It also leaves the possibility of us applying the initial plan down the line if the opportunity presents itself.

    What's likely to be asked of us will be committing to culling the Devil Bees to weaken them as a force.

    The best way to do that, in turn, is to force them out of the mountains.

    Itd be a long, arduous project. But a doable one.
     
    Garlak said:
    Oh right, also -- does Manuel like dramatics and/or liked his monologues or something too? I can't recall if that was a character trait said about him or not. I do remember him monologuing to an unfortunate deceased Seven Divine Sabers Palace disciple. And to... his aurochs, hehe. Because revealing secrets or plans to an audience is, well, you don't do that. :V Not unless you're shit-talking or deceiving the enemy (or shilling your soap products, as the case may be), showing off to friends, or somewhere it's safe to talk.
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    He enjoys them, but is savvy enough to know that monologuing is best done to either dead bodies where they can't interrupt you mid-explaining your plan smugly with some sort of clever counter, or to your friends who really need to know your plan.
     
    TehChron said:
    Appeasing them is just the common sense alternative to provoking them into punching our faces in.

    That's what you do with uneven power dynamics, you realize?
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    It doesn't matter how much we knowtow, pay in tribute and allow them to slaughter the mortals under our protection they will always stab us in the back.

    They're the scorpion and we're the the frog carrying them across the river, it's their nature to betray us by stabbing us in the back.

    The idea that we can have peace, that they will be content with us existing, is fundamentally false.
     
    Shaper47 said:
    It doesn't matter how much we knowtow, pay in tribute and allow them to slaughter the mortals under our protection they will always stab us in the back.

    They're the scorpion and we're the the frog carrying them across the river, it's their nature to betray us by stabbing us in the back.

    The idea that we can have peace, that they will be content with us existing, is fundamentally false.
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    I mean, technically, becoming Righteous might be on the table, in which case they stop trying to kill us as much.

    But no, the trick is making them not want to kill us right now.
     
    Shaper47 said:
    It doesn't matter how much we knowtow, pay in tribute and allow them to slaughter the mortals under our protection they will always stab us in the back.

    They're the scorpion and we're the the frog carrying them across the river, it's their nature to betray us by stabbing us in the back.

    The idea that we can have peace, that they will be content with us existing, is fundamentally false.
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    ???

    What're you talking about

    Peace is a transitory state. No one expects it to last in the first place
     
    Shaper47 said:
    It doesn't matter how much we knowtow, pay in tribute and allow them to slaughter the mortals under our protection they will always stab us in the back.

    They're the scorpion and we're the the frog carrying them across the river, it's their nature to betray us by stabbing us in the back.

    The idea that we can have peace, that they will be content with us existing, is fundamentally false.
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    Okay how do you propose we kill the Jingshen and then have the power to survive Old Cannibal and an immediate SPS strike force all the while saving enough money to prepare for the next trials?
     
    Deadly Snark said:
    Okay how do you propose we kill the Jingshen and then have the power to survive Old Cannibal and an immediate SPS strike force all the while saving enough money to prepare for the next trials?
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    Keep in mind that this is relevant because its a worst case scenario.

    Not an impossibility.

    That being said, I've more or less settled on a plan of attack that I've posted in the discord. Pretty pleased with it, tbh,
     
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