Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

If you write a new Good Seed, or write an omake, please update the spreadsheet if you have access.

If you do not have access, please ping a collaborator (Swordomatic, Alectai, Quest, TehChron, Insane-Not-Crazy, Humbaba, ReaderOfFate, Kaboomatic, no., BungieONI) letting them know what you want and they will update the spreadsheet here. To gain access, you will need a gmail account of some kind. Throwaway emails are fine (I'm using one for the spreadsheet), but to gain access it's as simple as sending me either your email via PM, via DM in Discord, or just in Discord's #spreadsheet-requests channel.

This is mandatory. If a Good Seed does not record their omake by pinging collabs (or just requesting access and editing things themselves - this is the preferred option), I won't give out awards. If a new Good Seed is not recorded here, they won't advance. By doing this it makes the whole thing manageable for me - it's gotten pretty unwieldy!

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Omake Writer Instructions:

There are four fields you need to fill out.

Omake Link, which is just a link to your first omake for the turn. This makes it easier for me to read them as I do the update - without this it's tough to know off the bat which omake were written this turn, and to properly

Requested Bonus, which is your requested bonus for your omake. You can leave it up to me if you like. You can see more info in the Good Seed infopost here.

Cultivation Aims. For those following unorthodox paths - higher than 9th Heavenstage or later than 7th Dao Pillar paths. Please put in what you are aiming for before you break through. I have left it as 'default'. If you do not edit it, I'll go with that.

Turn Notes - Do you want to do something specific? Enter a Secret Realm? Help the Clan out in some way? If you have something specific you want to accomplish on this turn, put it in turn notes so I can adjust your Fate around it.

All other fields are for QM use to record character information to properly run the flow of the game.

 

[Faraway-R]

[X] Kleisthenes Sarantapechos - Your sole remaining friend and diplomat. She has lost a foot and could be carried out.

He flattened Manuel - who is vastly more experienced, on his home ground, and only has to shatter a single token as opposed to killing his enemy.

Killing a bunch of Core Formation elders even with a formation that lets them exchange blows with a Nascent Soul doesn't rate. Bhrigu is absurdly strong and once he pulled out his keyblade magical artifact he basically can hit indefinitely far harder than Manuel can. They're both of equivalent cultivation, but Manuel is tooling around with some neat stuf, Bhrigu's grandfather is late Spirit Severing and dotes on his grandson in terms of things like 'cool stuff to use in a fight'. Even things like 'fighting a war to prevent him being punished for kidnapping and rape', so you can imagine how good the stuff is.

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So. Is Bhrigu an "undefeatable at Nascent Soul" tier, or is he even a cut above that? I am just wondering if Rina (is her tendency for OP-ness continues) will have a chance against him if/when they reach the same Realms.

On that note - I am reasonably sure that killing him, even if it was possible with the Token as his lifesaving, would bring his grandfather on the very next Trials and end with there being no Trials on grounds of complete eradication of Golden Devils and their legacy.

 

[Leon12431]

[X] Kleisthenes Sarantapechos - Your sole remaining friend and diplomat. She has lost a foot and could be carried out.

@occipitallobe does this mean that the horrendous malus that good seeds and all of our actions get is removed from here on out?

 

[Alectai]

Shit, I think I know how he did it.

He's got grandpappy's moderator token, doesn't he? Which clearly exempts the one from the usual "Kicked out for punching down" rule.

It wasn't intended to be used to push an agenda like this, no--but it would explain why he wasn't dispelled...

And shit, it's an opportunity.

Because for once, a moderator token is in the hands of someone who is theoretically within reach of the Clan.

Just, you know, a fully fed and matured Nascent Soul supported by the direct favor and attention of a high Spirit Severing Elder.

That being said, it does look like he didn't go the Hard Mode Route for his cultivation. Manuel was losing but was also buying time for six months, and it wasn't until he brought out that insane ancestral treasure that he became an invincible killblender.

And given his personality, it's extremely unlikely he pushed for the routes that would make his tribulations harder. Not when his gramps can just feed him peak level gear to get the same effect.

 

[BungieONI]

Shit, I think I know how he did it.

He's got grandpappy's moderator token, doesn't he? Which clearly exempts the one from the usual "Kicked out for punching down" rule.

It wasn't intended to be used to push an agenda like this, no--but it would explain why he wasn't dispelled...

And shit, it's an opportunity.

Because for once, a moderator token is in the hands of someone who is theoretically within reach of the Clan.

Just, you know, a fully fed and matured Nascent Soul supported by the direct favor and attention of a high Spirit Severing Elder.

That being said, it does look like he didn't go the Hard Mode Route for his cultivation. Manuel was losing but was also buying time for six months, and it wasn't until he brought out that insane ancestral treasure that he became an invincible killblender.

And given his personality, it's extremely unlikely he pushed for the routes that would make his tribulations harder. Not when his gramps can just feed him peak level gear.

Click to shrink...

Also worth noting that he's gone now, so its no longer in reach.

 

[Alectai]

Also worth noting that he's gone now, so its no longer in reach.

Click to shrink...

I suspect the moderator token is different from the one we can attack. It'd be a vulnerability that could theoretically be exploited by a punch-up treasure, and the whole point of the moderators is to ensure that we don't get a chance to win.

 

[BungieONI]

I suspect the moderator token is different from the one we can attack. It'd be a vulnerability that could theoretically be exploited by a punch-up treasure, and the whole point of the moderators is to ensure that we don't get a chance to win.

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Possibly, but I'm failing to make the jump you are since he's now gone and no longer in the Third Sea since he used a token port to escape and we have no guarantee he'll come back.

 

[TehChron]

Possibly, but I'm failing to make the jump you are since he's now gone and no longer in the Third Sea since he used a token port to escape and we have no guarantee he'll come back.

Click to shrink...

Sure we do

If Ninth Prince survives that is

 

[TheDuke]

Wew, well, that was a disaster and a half. Feel like I've got to raise a point no one's really brought up though. Significant risks to the clan aside, couldn't this be kind of bad for, eh, Manuel? I know we gave that whole speech about how sometimes you've got to stand up for yourself and shoulder the risk of being destroyed in the hopes of reaching greater heights, but uh, the fact of the matter is that Manuel was mildly injured while three quarters of our Core Formation cultivators lost their lives, all to save one Qi Condensation cultivator. This isn't a democracy or anything, obviously, but that's generally the sort of goof that gets somebody kicked out of office. Violently. Even if the Golden Devils are the sort of Clan that emphasizes camaraderie, I can't help but feel like confidence in our leadership abilities might be at an all-time low, after this.

 

[Timothy]

[X] Staurakios Palaiologos - The stolid master of disciples. He is unwounded, but is unconscious.

 

[RebelYell]

Wew, well, that was a disaster and a half. Feel like I've got to raise a point no one's really brought up though. Significant risks to the clan aside, couldn't this be kind of bad for, eh, Manuel? I know we gave that whole speech about how sometimes you've got to stand up for yourself and shoulder the risk of being destroyed in the hopes of reaching greater heights, but uh, the fact of the matter is that Manuel was mildly injured while three quarters of our Core Formation cultivators lost their lives, all to save one Qi Condensation cultivator. This isn't a democracy or anything, obviously, but that's generally the sort of goof that gets somebody kicked out of office. Violently. Even if the Golden Devils are the sort of Clan that emphasizes camaraderie, I can't help but feel like confidence in our leadership abilities might be at an all-time low, after this.

Click to shrink...

That be the benefits of being the only nuke aka nascent soul, also all the unity buffs we made for our clan.

 

[BungieONI]

Sure we do

If Ninth Prince survives that is

Click to shrink...

Maybe? But its worth noting Manuel is already planning on hiding the Ninth Prince so... if he ain't able to be found by Birigu then Bir boy doesn't have reason to come. I see what Alectai was trying to go for now though.

 

[DangerKitty]

Im interested in the upcoming good seed report. Wanna know how and who my boi ambrus saved and if he went out like a champ or actually fucking survived like a madlad even though i went for double saving.

Boi if he survives i think im practically obligated to start writing omakes for him again. Dudes survived multiple turns without help and i just threw him into the metaphorical wood chipper. If he survives that then just lmao.

 

[LotusPocus]

[X] Kleisthenes Sarantapechos - Your sole remaining friend and diplomat. She has lost a foot and could be carried out.

 

[Bulwark]

[X] Kleisthenes Sarantapechos - Your sole remaining friend and diplomat. She has lost a foot and could be carried out.

 

[UwU]

[X] Kleisthenes Sarantapechos - Your sole remaining friend and diplomat. She has lost a foot and could be carried out.

 

[occipitallobe]

Three (four) posts to come this turn.

Zeroth, three early Fates for omake writers who requested them (as a rule if you've written a lot of omake, tapped out for the turn and want something to push you forward, I can do that).

One, the Saving Juniors post. The Miracle at Disaster in Victory Before the Walls of Defeat after Strike at Defense of... well, something at Waycastle Pleuron. Collective Storypost has won here, but I'll be making sure to mention everyone's name in it at least once.

Two, the final Trials post.

Three, the Good Seed update.

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Notes: Thank you @occipitallobe for looking it over. He shows up after trails so no rolls for now. So do I add him now and just put no rolls or somthing or wait till turn 6 tab is created?

Click to shrink...

Just wait and put him on the Turn 6 tab.

Oof, Manuel slowly but surely used up his treasures in order to fight Bhigru and then lost a major part of his people anyway after that speech about burning as opposed to rotting. That's gotta hurt. Like if most of the jounin got killed by Orochimaru but the Third Hokage managed to survive even after talking about how he was a pillar protecting Konoha. And the only thing the golden devils got in exchange was poor karmic luck being revoked.

That setup was so good for a proper taking you with me payoff too.

Welp.

Click to shrink...

This was actually my problem! I had a speech, I couldn't link it to the fight I wanted, and no matter how I wrote the coming disaster when I tried to go from speech to fight to disaster it all just fell apart on me. In the end I just skipped most of the fight and wrote the last portion of it from an outsider's perspective to avoid not being able to make the whole thing work.

Very frustrating, but after ~5 days of it just not working I decided to up and write something and just post whatever it was.

If we suffer the Wound, would recovery prevent us from Teaching?

The combo of that expensive Palace and our Talent in teaching just might make it so that we can recover the lower level cultivators much faster. Hopefully the Good Seeds that survive can pad enough of our higher levels that it would still work.

Click to shrink...

Yes, a Wound for Manuel just prevents him from taking any Actions that turn. He could still technically teach, but he'd be too laser-focused on recovery and spending all his time and effort getting better. It's basically 'time spent proactively recovering' versus 'time spend doing anything else'.

I feel like sometimes it's better if we just... don't do that :/

Click to shrink...

I went into this quest with a really strong agenda, which was 'find out how a world running on xianxia tropes can make sense'. Powerful men getting away with horrible things is a staple of human history, and you can only imagine how much moreso it would be in the event those people are superpowered - I didn't want to dwell on it for too long, but ignoring it felt wrong as well.

The Clan is really nice in xianxia terms, as established at creation - you can be punished harshly for doing horrible things, but for most factions this is only the case in a relative sense - don't do the wrong thing to Righteous Path members or mortals, or don't do the wrong thing to members of your Clan, or Sect, or so on and so forth. The cultivation world is a really unpleasant one.

We don't need to hide our weakness for multiple turns. We need to hide it for one. At the end of this turn we are going to have 54-32= 12 Core Formation cultivators vs our vassals' 9. We are at a serious risk of internal rebellion (or even them allying with foreign powers).

Click to shrink...

Not especially. You have a Nascent Soul which is the important thing. There was a post once where I mentioned Nascent Soul versus everyone else in an average power is a Nascent Soul win. That's still true.

-A whole bunch of our councilmembers are dead, we need Core Formation cultivators to replace them. Honestly, I don't know why we need CFs for the council, but I'm assuming there's a reason all our councillors were Core Formation. We need people moving up the ladder to replace them.

Click to shrink...

Core Formation cultivators tend to be older, have more experience, think faster (cultivation boosts everything), and are far less subject to being suborned. As a rule to fuck with someone's mind and enthrall them you generally need to be above them by a whole Great Realm (this isn't just illusions or the like, but 'you are now my willing slave' style stuff such as Lady Jiao). Given Nascent Souls moving around is a big deal it's very hard to suborn Core Formation cultivators.

Foundation Establishment experts on the other hand can have this done by Core Formation cultivators, of which there are far more and who move around much more freely.

To add to what Chron is saying, a fight between Nascent Souls is essentially a 50/50. Sure, if the Old Cannibal defeated Manuel, the Blood Cannibals would be in a great position - but if the Old Cannibal dies then they're fucked, they're donezo, they cease to exist. That's how it works. Why would anyone take that shot? There's a lot less painful things to do, with a lot less attached risk.

Click to shrink...

From Manuel's perspective he considers it far more likely Old Cannibal will try and strongarm him into returning the territories the Devils won and threaten action otherwise. Free lands bloated with mortals, zero cost? Yes please.

So. Is Bhrigu an "undefeatable at Nascent Soul" tier, or is he even a cut above that? I am just wondering if Rina (is her tendency for OP-ness continues) will have a chance against him if/when they reach the same Realms.

On that note - I am reasonably sure that killing him, even if it was possible with the Token as his lifesaving, would bring his grandfather on the very next Trials and end with there being no Trials on grounds of complete eradication of Golden Devils and their legacy.

Click to shrink...

If Rina followed all the unorthodox paths and reached Nascent Soul she'd kill him as easily as turning over her hand. Manuel is tricky and old and clever, but he's not very strong relative to Bhrigu and his endurance is garbage for a Nascent Soul of his level. He wins by doing unexpected things and tricking his enemies into taking blows they really shouldn't, not by being stronger and tougher.

[X] Kleisthenes Sarantapechos - Your sole remaining friend and diplomat. She has lost a foot and could be carried out.

@occipitallobe does this mean that the horrendous malus that good seeds and all of our actions get is removed from here on out?

Click to shrink...

Yes. The Trials still exist, ascension is still tough.

Wew, well, that was a disaster and a half. Feel like I've got to raise a point no one's really brought up though. Significant risks to the clan aside, couldn't this be kind of bad for, eh, Manuel? I know we gave that whole speech about how sometimes you've got to stand up for yourself and shoulder the risk of being destroyed in the hopes of reaching greater heights, but uh, the fact of the matter is that Manuel was mildly injured while three quarters of our Core Formation cultivators lost their lives, all to save one Qi Condensation cultivator. This isn't a democracy or anything, obviously, but that's generally the sort of goof that gets somebody kicked out of office. Violently. Even if the Golden Devils are the sort of Clan that emphasizes camaraderie, I can't help but feel like confidence in our leadership abilities might be at an all-time low, after this.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Euphrosyne basically laid our her opposition in an earlier post - this was not an uncommon view among the Clan. This is not going to be a huge boost to his popularity, let's just say.

 

[BungieONI]

Zeroth, three early Fates for omake writers who requested them (as a rule if you've written a lot of omake, tapped out for the turn and want something to push you forward, I can do that).

One, the Saving Juniors post. The ~~Miracle at Disaster in Victory Before the Walls of Defeat after Strike at Defense of~~... well, something at Waycastle Pleuron. Collective Storypost has won here, but I'll be making sure to mention everyone's name in it at least once.

Two, the final Trials post.

Three, the Good Seed update.

Click to shrink...

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! Wooooohooo!

From Manuel's perspective he considers it far more likely Old Cannibal will try and strongarm him into returning the territories the Devils won and threaten action otherwise. Free lands bloated with mortals, zero cost? Yes please.

Click to shrink...

Hmmm. *thinking noises occur*

 

[Kairos123]

Yes. The Trials still exist, ascension is still tough.

Click to shrink...

Will the rough ascensions ever get worn down in the same way luck has as good seeds ascend higher?

 

[George]

Wew, well, that was a disaster and a half. Feel like I've got to raise a point no one's really brought up though. Significant risks to the clan aside, couldn't this be kind of bad for, eh, Manuel? I know we gave that whole speech about how sometimes you've got to stand up for yourself and shoulder the risk of being destroyed in the hopes of reaching greater heights, but uh, the fact of the matter is that Manuel was mildly injured while three quarters of our Core Formation cultivators lost their lives, all to save one Qi Condensation cultivator. This isn't a democracy or anything, obviously, but that's generally the sort of goof that gets somebody kicked out of office. Violently. Even if the Golden Devils are the sort of Clan that emphasizes camaraderie, I can't help but feel like confidence in our leadership abilities might be at an all-time low, after this.

Click to shrink...

When you put it like that, I'm pretty unclear on why Manuel didn't give him over. Isn't Manuel all about spending lives for the greater good of the Clan? I assume there's something I'm forgetting that sheds light on his motivation to fight it out.

 

[Kaboomatic]

When you put it like that, I'm pretty unclear on why Manuel didn't give him over. Isn't Manuel all about spending lives for the greater good of the Clan? I assume there's something I'm forgetting that sheds light on his motivation to fight it out.

Click to shrink...

The Watsonian answer is that the shadow of heaven told him not to, the Doylist answer is that it would be a real dick move to kill the Ninth Prince out of nowhere for plot reasons, especially when he has a LST

 

[ReaderOfFate]

When you put it like that, I'm pretty unclear on why Manuel didn't give him over. Isn't Manuel all about spending lives for the greater good of the Clan? I assume there's something I'm forgetting that sheds light on his motivation to fight it out.

Click to shrink...

Manuel thought for a moment. There was something screaming in the back of his mind. A trap. It wasn't his instincts, nor his Dao.

No.

His eyes opened wide, his face jolted by relevation. This was not him communing with Heaven's Shadow.

This was Heaven's Shadow communing with him.

Don't.... let him... we all end... don't... let...

The tiny, flickering voice ended, cut off without even an echo to remember it.

Click to shrink...

Here's the relevant quote, btw.

 

[George]

The Watsonian answer is that the shadow of heaven told him not to, the Doylist answer is that it would be a real dick move to kill the Ninth Prince out of nowhere for plot reasons, especially when he has a LST

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ahhh, I forgot about the shadow of heaven, thank you!
As to the Doylist answer, if occipital wanted to write about Manuel handing over a promising young cultivator, he could just not make it a player's good seed.

Here's the relevant quote, btw.

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ok thank you that was very dramatic and clear at the time LOL, I've had a long week ^_^

 

[Gore17]

Yeah, Euphrosyne basically laid our her opposition in an earlier post - this was not an uncommon view among the Clan. This is not going to be a huge boost to his popularity, let's just say.

Click to shrink...

Would people even be aware of what, exactly, the guy was here for? Wouldn't they just think that this was them going after him?

 

[TheDuke]

When you put it like that, I'm pretty unclear on why Manuel didn't give him over. Isn't Manuel all about spending lives for the greater good of the Clan? I assume there's something I'm forgetting that sheds light on his motivation to fight it out.

Click to shrink...

It's probably a combination of being super done with being proverbially bent over by the heavens every time, the fact that we basically got a divine revelation telling us to take this course of action and, at the same time, probably not expecting the costs to be nearly this high. Them being able to bypass a supposedly immutable law of the Trials isn't exactly something one would probably account for, otherwise I'm sure Manuel wouldn't have called on all his Core Formation Elders to help him. There's also the argument to be made that Bhrigu hinted at the fact that the Ninth Prince was much stronger originally, but that's still probably a rather weak one.

 

[FixerUpper]

Shit, I think I know how he did it.

He's got grandpappy's moderator token, doesn't he? Which clearly exempts the one from the usual "Kicked out for punching down" rule.

It wasn't intended to be used to push an agenda like this, no--but it would explain why he wasn't dispelled...

And shit, it's an opportunity.

Because for once, a moderator token is in the hands of someone who is theoretically within reach of the Clan.

Just, you know, a fully fed and matured Nascent Soul supported by the direct favor and attention of a high Spirit Severing Elder.

That being said, it does look like he didn't go the Hard Mode Route for his cultivation. Manuel was losing but was also buying time for six months, and it wasn't until he brought out that insane ancestral treasure that he became an invincible killblender.

And given his personality, it's extremely unlikely he pushed for the routes that would make his tribulations harder. Not when his gramps can just feed him peak level gear to get the same effect.

Click to shrink...

I re-read the interlude and while I think you're on the right track, the details are off. The mystery prince Bhigru was conferring with spoke of 'winning him a token.' The token is special in some way, possibly in a way that is truly costly (maybe it cannot be replaced), possibly not. If it were a normal token, I don't see how it would permit him to punch down.

That said, let's examine what we know:

1) There was a need for secrecy in assassinating the Naag. The need was grave enough to merit murdering an eavesdropping girl.

2) A living memory wiper was sent along Bhigru.

3) WOG says that severing soul cultivators love watching nascent souls duke it out.

4) Bhigru punched down and killed a healthy portion of our core formation elders and was not ejected.

Taken altogether this suggests Bhigru is... uh, kind of an idiot. His was a stealth mission so important he needed to bring along anti-divination backup and he managed to royally bungle it up in every conceivable way (everyone is aware of it and his target got away even after he pulled out his ace in the hole and broke the rules) purely because he had a sadistic streak. I wouldn't be totally surprised if all this was just a gambit to get him disowned by his family by finally screwing up in a way so profound his grandfather has no choice but to kick him out. The Shadow of Heaven communicating to Manuel directly kind of suggests against it, but this mission was (if you think about it )actually not that hard and he 100% effed it up.

For instance:

1) If he had left the core formation alive he could have bargained their lives for the life of the Naag.

2) If he had Manuel on the ropes he could have bargained Manuel's life for the life of the Naag.

3) He could have simply ignored Manuel and gone around torturing people until he found the Naag. I mean there's apparently little to nothing Manuel could do to him.

The more I consider the apparent options available to him the more I boggle at his extraordinary ineptitude.

I want to see him back for a re-match too, but after his dumbass showboating my guess is they just send someone competent this time.

This was actually my problem! I had a speech, I couldn't link it to the fight I wanted, and no matter how I wrote the coming disaster when I tried to go from speech to fight to disaster it all just fell apart on me. In the end I just skipped most of the fight and wrote the last portion of it from an outsider's perspective to avoid not being able to make the whole thing work.

Very frustrating, but after ~5 days of it just not working I decided to up and write something and just post whatever it was.

Click to shrink...

A++ speech though, it really set the tone, the stakes and the mood. Payoff was up to the dice which there was no helping with.