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History Strikes Back (TNO/TLM ISOT into OTL)

Would you all prefer a side story series on

  • UAR culture, subcultures and society in general

    Votes: 13 25.5%

  • UAR cities and locales

    Votes: 11 21.6%

  • Changes and events IOTL unrelated to the Cold War

    Votes: 27 52.9%
  • Total voters
    51
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IDK, if anything, North Korea would probably welcome the UAR. Historically, North Korea had good relations with Gaddafi and was (and remains to this day) supportive of Palestinian statehood while refusing to recognize Israel as a state.
 
Spylobster said:
The funny thing is that depending on the exact month the TL is in, the largest political party in Ukraine is the Communist Party of Ukraine and even after the March 2002 election was still the third largest party in the Ukrainian legislature.
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Genuinely would be very interesting to see a European nation like Ukraine elect a communist party and have it ally with the UAR. Because otherwise I'd assume the continent would be a stronghold for capitalism under Putin or America's thumb.

With Putin on the prowl and a NATO more focused on us than Eastern Europe, I wonder how many countries there would look towards the UAR for assistance. Even if they didn't necessarily ally with them. Though presumably the EU is an option: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, and Cyprus haven't joined the EU yet. Still time for these countries to change course.
 
Spylobster said:
IDK, if anything, North Korea would probably welcome the UAR. Historically, North Korea had good relations with Gaddafi and was (and remains to this day) supportive of Palestinian statehood while refusing to recognize Israel as a state.
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Maybe, but then again would the uar except them for who they are?

North korea is a communist dystopia, ironic because a few years later south korea will become a capitalist dystopia.
 
the_game_rail said:
Maybe, but then again would the uar except them for who they are?

North korea is a communist dystopia, ironic because a few years later south korea will become a capitalist dystopia.
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IDK, North Korea always kind of was the black sheep of the socialist bloc, but IIRC, until the 80s its standard of living and industrialization was equal or better than South Korea. I think the baggage the DPRK carries with it doesn't really mean as much to the UAR as it would to a IRL leftist, who won't really have that context.
 
Well at least DPRK would have increased quality-of-life as a result of the UAR being willing to help them on that front at the very least. Otherwise, it's not going to be a fun time going through the 1920's all over again in terms of political and economic instability.
 
Always Late said:
So when do we get to calling Putin a Nazi and throwing the UAR's entire military into Ukraine?
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the_game_rail said:
Hey, what do the uar think of russia, amd putin as a hole.

As we know, the russian federation is a ancap-turn state capitalist autocracy headed by a ex-secreat service agent. What would the uar think of the situation?
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"You are a corpse state wearing the skin of the Soviet Union while spitting on everything it fought and died for no matter its flaws, you will hang with the rest of the imperialists when the time comes"

As for throwing their entire military into Ukraine, that currently isn't necessary or feasible since the UAR can't exactly access Ukraine from its current position short of Turkey turning red.

the_game_rail said:
Maybe, but then again would the uar except them for who they are?

North korea is a communist dystopia, ironic because a few years later south korea will become a capitalist dystopia.
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The UAR can't look a gift horse in the mouth right now with it being alone on the world stage, and the DRPK is an excellent base to get involved in East Asia. Though you can bet the UAR will be doing its best to undermine Kim Il Jung and start working on building real socialism.

LuxemburgLover69 said:
Genuinely would be very interesting to see a European nation like Ukraine elect a communist party and have it ally with the UAR. Because otherwise I'd assume the continent would be a stronghold for capitalism under Putin or America's thumb.

With Putin on the prowl and a NATO more focused on us than Eastern Europe, I wonder how many countries there would look towards the UAR for assistance. Even if they didn't necessarily ally with them. Though presumably the EU is an option: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, and Cyprus haven't joined the EU yet. Still time for these countries to change course.
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Spylobster said:
The funny thing is that depending on the exact month the TL is in, the largest political party in Ukraine is the Communist Party of Ukraine and even after the March 2002 election was still the third largest party in the Ukrainian legislature.
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The problem with potential socialist nations is that unless they have a med coast, they don't have easy access to the UAR and its material support, meaning they are likely to get blockaded and embargoed to hell, even if the UAR shields them from invasion by invoking MAD. And thats without the potential of say a Ukraine about to turn red being invaded outright by Russia, only with NATO's blessing this time.
 
Acc. No. 1409 said:
Well at least DPRK would have increased quality-of-life as a result of the UAR being willing to help them on that front at the very least. Otherwise, it's not going to be a fun time going through the 1920's all over again in terms of political and economic instability.
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They need to reform after they get their first batch of aid. This cult of personality has been tolerated for too long, and the UAR unlike China isn't going to tolerate these quirks. No more dragging the name of socialism through the ground, they need to clean up their act. This isn't red imperialism it's basic common sense and decency.
 
Here's the saying here guys things are going to get ALOT worse before they get better when the UAR beats Russia and NATO that means they have practically destroyed the bear to the point it collapses on itself and made the EU dissolved
 
StarMaker764 said:
The only silver lining was that fewer people were inclined to blame capitalism or their own governments for the immediate crisis than they normally would be, for the Wamda was something that no one could have realistically predicted or prepared for (something that was emphasized by government officials and free market economists repeatedly).
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Pay no attention to the gigantic socialist superpower which was literally plucked out of its economic environment and still fared better than the Greatest Political/Economic System Ever Devised.

StarMaker764 said:
There were of course just as many instances of people refusing to give into blind xenophobia, with neighbors and communities rallying to the defense of their Muslim peers, family and friends while the street fighting anti fascist left sprang into action after an initial period of confusion and uncertainty as old battles between the far left and far right replayed themselves in the 21st century, though the burgeoning ANTIFA fighters found themselves facing both fascist hooligans and police forces that targeted them exclusively and the movement across Europe was a shadow of its former self in the wake of the left's global malaise (and in Eastern Europe such groups were almost nonexistent).
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Even if the US Left is emaciated and unprepared, it still plucks the heartstrings to see them and even otherwise "apolitical" Americans put up a fight and come to the defense of their neighbors (As had happened in our world in many cases even during the nationwide hysteria of the GWOT).
 
Whenyouseeyou said:
Here's the saying here guys things are going to get ALOT worse before they get better when the UAR beats Russia and NATO that means they have practically destroyed the bear to the point it collapses on itself and made the EU dissolved
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I think that's an exaggeration even OTL (as in the real world), no one wants to dissolve Russia's for a variety of reasons. I think the UAR would also need Russia for something so they won't dissolve them.
 
StarMaker764 said:
You are a corpse state wearing the skin of the Soviet Union while spitting on everything it fought and died for no matter its flaws, you will hang with the rest of the imperialists when the time comes"
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>read Putin file documenting how he was in charge of a KGB operation taking Neo-Nazis out of East German prisons and sneaking them into West Germany to undermine social order and create conditions for war.
"What the actual fuck, where did they go off rails this badly?"
>Gives file of Holodomor
"Ah. Lemme go cry in the corner now."
StarMaker764 said:
As for throwing their entire military into Ukraine, that currently isn't necessary or feasible since the UAR can't exactly access Ukraine from its current position short of Turkey turning red.
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Not currently.:evil:
 
StarMaker764 said:
There were of course just as many instances of people refusing to give into blind xenophobia, with neighbors and communities rallying to the defense of their Muslim peers, family and friends while the street fighting anti fascist left sprang into action after an initial period of confusion and uncertainty as old battles between the far left and far right replayed themselves in the 21st century, though the burgeoning ANTIFA fighters found themselves facing both fascist hooligans and police forces that targeted them exclusively and the movement across Europe was a shadow of its former self in the wake of the left's global malaise (and in Eastern Europe such groups were almost nonexistent).
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I think the UAR would do good to lean into how the "modern left" is anarchist dominated after the fall of the soviet union and help organize them. They shouldn't neglect other avenues but they won't find as strong a purchase for finding mass parties and the like these days. I know Anarchism is having success cases in TLM so they can source plenty of people who can go out and train and organize communities across the west.

The fascists that run the west and their right wing lackies might be dominant but there are still ebbs and flows to the population towards the left even in the heart of imperialism.
 
yeastmobile said:
I think the UAR would do good to lean into how the "modern left" is anarchist dominated after the fall of the soviet union and help organize them. They shouldn't neglect other avenues but they won't find as strong a purchase for finding mass parties and the like these days. I know Anarchism is having success cases in TLM so they can source plenty of people who can go out and train and organize communities across the west.

The fascists that run the west and their right wing lackies might be dominant but there are still ebbs and flows to the population towards the left even in the heart of imperialism.
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Hell, maybe we can even invite chomsky and sanders to our cause
 
the_game_rail said:
Hell, maybe we can even invite chomsky and sanders to our cause
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Probably not, Sanders did support the Bombing of Yugoslavia and has been an accomplice of us imperialism for over a decade at the time of the story. I don't think he's coming over.

Chomsky, maybe, but probably not. He's very idealist and doesn't really take any actual socialist experiments seriously. He would denounce the UAR because they follow a Leninist model and Council Democracy.

They will probably be at the spear point of the West attempt to keep the Western left separate from the UAR.
 
Anarchism is really only sort of a significant ideology in some parts of the First World. In 2002, most left-wing movements are Marxist-Leninist or Maoist like the Naxalites, NPA, FARC, and the anti-monarchist Nepalese. Even in the First World there are still armed left-nationalist groups active at this time like the ETA in Spain.
 
The parts of the KMT that had somewhat good relations with the CPC and Comintern were from the Left KMT anyway, whose closest equivalent would be the Revolutionary Committee of the Kuomintang in China, not the KMT in Taiwan.
 
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Wasn't it the Left KMT that sided with the Communists after the Japanese collaborators enacted their coup, while the Right KMT tried to ally with the US?
 
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