Maybe, but Taylor also has something of a problem with toxic self discipline so she also has the potential to make things worse in that regard too.
Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]
- Thread starter James D. Fawkes
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- Crossover
....I'm not sure it's possible to be a worse role model influence than Marisbury Animusphere...
....Blackbeard, might possibly, be a worse role model influence?
...Maybe???
....Do any Dad!Blackbeard fanfics even exist?
I meant mostly on the topic of self discipline, as Taylor was pushed herself hard enough during the time skip that there was implications that she was damaging her body and probably would have caused medical problems in the long term.
I personally think that Blackbeard can actually be a pretty decent role model ironically. Sure he's a degenerate pirate, but he's our meme-spouting degenerate pirate!
If you want horrible role models, i think Sesshoin Kiara can qualify easily for a case of what "not to do" despite how successful she actually is in some timeline.
On the other side of the spectrum of good role models, Caren the Nun, daughter of Yorokobe can actually be a good one for "do as i do, not as i say" type... maybe.
- Location
- Argentina
Hey, I think you are underselling Taylor here, she can be a very good friend is just that what Emma and company did to her still hurts. Taylor dedicated most of her friendship to a single person and that basically destroyed her life, so while not aware of it, Taylor keep looking for a higher purpose to dedicate herself to because yes she is suicidal. And this Taylor didn't have two years of therapy to get mentally better, she got throw right into another save the world scenario.
So if Taylor is not the best friend she could be, is your fault because Taylor will always chose to save humanity from complete extermination over anything else and you put her right in a situation to do it again.
Also do remember Olga sees Taylor as better that herself, someone who already saved the world before and that has talents Olga doesn't have.
So is not that Taylor or Olga are bad friends to each other but that they both have mental hang ups they have yet to overcome.
And of course until the crisis and saving the world actually started Taylor was while grateful still a bit suspicious, because she has been burned and used so many times before.
If Olga returns, Taylor will try to be a better friend to her, if out of guilt if nothing else.
What long term? THE WORLD WAS ENDING! Also Parahuman healers were a thing so you can't see it as if she had done so in real life. Yes Taylor was self destructing but that would only have affected her if there was a world left to live in and Zion didn't just nuke everything. What part of destroying every Earth they could get into are you not getting?
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Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Lev doesn't show up till Septem. Orleans doesn't have any Demon God Pillars making an appearance.
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- He/Him/His
I agree that Taylor is a workaholic to a toxic extant. But, I'm pretty sure that falls under her "make different/healthier choices" decision.
At any rate, the point was, lacking role models, Olga Marie's attempts at self-discipline amounted to indulging her inferiority complex and related issues. (Probably encouraged by Lev).
Taylor was at least productive.
ThatOtherSatori
Lover of Spicy Food
- Location
- Indiana, USA
Yeah, despite being a brutal pirate, Blackbeard's actually a pretty stand-up guy. total degenerate weirdo, but hey. can't the same be said for like, 99% of us net-dwellers?
IIRC, didn't he actually take a serious uptick in 'goodness' when he got access to the modern era's wonders? kinda funny really, how much the internet can change a person.
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My personal take on Blackbeard in the Nasuverse is that he decided, since he can't intimidate enemy servants with shock and awe, he decided to make them underestimate him. If he appears a hapless buffoon, then that just means they're more likely to dismiss him as a threat.
Summer Bones
Just here for Godzilla.
- Location
- Usa
I would like Blackbeard a lot more if he went with a different shtick than, you know, minors.
"Olga or Rin's?"
"...Yes."
Jack Slash. We saw what he did with Riley. And even Shatterbird to an extent. At least Marisbury was doing horrible things on the grounds of "it is an undeniable, and may I say a fundamental quality of man, that when faced with extinction, every alternative is preferable." Jack was doing it for the lulz.
Option A: Be emotionally manipulated and holistically tortured into a monstrous extension of another's will (Jack Slash)
Option B: Be emotionally abandoned and labeled as less than useless. (
I would argue Olga would look at Riley and be envious.
Horrified and diagusted, yes, but envious all the same.
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- Location
- Colorado
Well Tokiomi is still somehow about a hundred times better as a person and a father than Marisbury. Which is pretty depressing.
Did Marisbury actually know the Incineration was coming? I thought he created Chaldea as a precaution/way of taking his family's research to the next level. Also the weirdness with the big bad alien god in part 2 being Olga might be hinting he's somehow involved in that apocalypse too.
But you're right that Jack Slash is a worse role-model. We can probably also add Zouken and Mama Mathers to the list too.
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Marisbury looked like a decent chap the first time we heard of him, but every single detail discovered after that makes him a worse person...
And Tokiomi?
Insert here the doctor meme:
Was Tokiomi Toshaka a good parent? It depends. On Fuyuki? No. On Space? Yes!
James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
Fuuuuuh... Be nice if getting in on the Walmart+ Xbox Series X restock queue on time actually meant something, instead of being stuck at "Estimated wait time: 1min" for AN HOUR AND A FUCKING HALF, only to be booted and told they're out of stock. What do I have to sacrifice to which god, what voodoo, what black magic is necessary to secure a single video game console when even doing everything right only results in failure? Ugh. And this is the second time it's happened.
But, like, Tokiomi's worst failing as a parent is generally that he trusted the wrong person in a situation without any good options. Sakura was in danger as long as she didn't have the protection of a proper magic crest and family line. The Einzbern would have made Sakura a handmaiden for Illya (if Tokiomi even could or even tried to contact them at all), which in this case is basically synonymous for "slave." Her options likely weren't that good with any other allies he might have had in the Mage's Association, either. Zouken was an old family ally who fell on hard times. He must have seemed like a godsend to Tokiomi. "What a fortuitous twist of fortune!" is probably what Tokiomi thought.
Marisbury...is not Tokiomi. Marisbury is an idealist, the worst kind of idealist, for whom every option had to be taken and every sacrifice deemed necessary to ensure that his vision of the future came to reality. In some ways, his abandoning Olga was the best thing that could have happened to her, and it's also what screwed her up so bad she's the neurotic, hypercritical mess she is when we're introduced to her in FGO's prologue.
On the scale of "worst parent ever," Tokiomi's probably a 3 or 4. Marisbury is solidly around 6. Zouken is obviously right around 8 or so, if only because he became less abusive and more neglectful as Sakura got older, with that elusive 10 reserved for the absolute monsters.Like that couple in Michigan who thought giving a gun to their clinically depressed son who was caught looking up how to buy ammunition in class was a great idea. Sorry, what was I saying? Right. There are 10s out there on that scale. But I'm not even sure I'd put Gendo at a 10, and he used and manipulated his son for the sole purpose of causing the apocalypse. Ragyu? Maybe. The mindrape and the literal rape put her pretty far up there on the scale.
Anyway. Tokiomi isn't the greatest dad ever. But he's far from the worst that it seemed a lot of the fandom liked to paint him as in the aftermath of Zero.
Tokiomi wasn't a great parent. Tokiomi wasn't even a good parent, generally. He at least intended to give his children the chance to turn away from the life of a magus, which stopped being an option when both of his daughters were so exceptional.
But, like, Tokiomi's worst failing as a parent is generally that he trusted the wrong person in a situation without any good options. Sakura was in danger as long as she didn't have the protection of a proper magic crest and family line. The Einzbern would have made Sakura a handmaiden for Illya (if Tokiomi even could or even tried to contact them at all), which in this case is basically synonymous for "slave." Her options likely weren't that good with any other allies he might have had in the Mage's Association, either. Zouken was an old family ally who fell on hard times. He must have seemed like a godsend to Tokiomi. "What a fortuitous twist of fortune!" is probably what Tokiomi thought.
Marisbury...is not Tokiomi. Marisbury is an idealist, the worst kind of idealist, for whom every option had to be taken and every sacrifice deemed necessary to ensure that his vision of the future came to reality. In some ways, his abandoning Olga was the best thing that could have happened to her, and it's also what screwed her up so bad she's the neurotic, hypercritical mess she is when we're introduced to her in FGO's prologue.
On the scale of "worst parent ever," Tokiomi's probably a 3 or 4. Marisbury is solidly around 6. Zouken is obviously right around 8 or so, if only because he became less abusive and more neglectful as Sakura got older, with that elusive 10 reserved for the absolute monsters.
Anyway. Tokiomi isn't the greatest dad ever. But he's far from the worst that it seemed a lot of the fandom liked to paint him as in the aftermath of Zero.
Fandoms tend to hate on parents alot, for example some people make Danny Hebert out to be the scum of the earth for no discernible reason or make naruto's parents out to be monsters for really dumb reasons.
I mean, yes? Because Zouken did not plan to train Sakura as a magus and that was what Tokiomi expected and he would have disagreed that. And yeah, he didn't have a lot of good options for her.
But also, uh.
I don't really think he manages to meet the bar of mediocre but unlucky here.
Axel
Tenno Wax
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- Italy
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Rape? we are talking about kill la kill, right? who did she rape?
Also, about parents, i would up Zouken at last to nine, he was intentionally neglectful to sakura, it would not do to her to snap at the wrong time or to the right wrong side.
And Gendo i would put 10 too, but mainly because not only the way he acted directly with shinji, but also because it is implied he was the cause for shinji to not have had friends or someone to care about while the two were separated.
Oh, right, and because while knowing he would have to contend with fucking aliens in a giant robot with a simpatetic link he didn't even train him in basic self defense
Satsuki i think
Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
The way I've heard it, Gendo was just having trouble being around Shinji because he reminded him if Yui. Also that the first draft of his letter said a whole lot more than "Come" but it was heavily redacted. And by the time Shinji makes it to Tokyo 3 the Angels are invading, so Gendo needs to put his personal feelings aside so he can accomplish his goals.
If you want a really bad father, I would say Genma from Ranma 1/2. That man had no business raising a child, to the point that fucking Haposai was actively shown to be someone you could better trust with your kids.
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James D. Fawkes
Court Scribe
- Location
- Avalon (Isle of Mists)
I'm not sure it's ever outright stated, but it's very heavily implied that Satsuki's semi-regular visits to with her mother, wherein they bathe together in...I think it was an open air bath, I don't remember for sure, involved Ragyu raping her, and that she's been doing it since Satsuki was very, very young, to the point where it's become something that "just happens." I remember that scene sticking out to me for how suggestive and lewd it was, even if it was very heavily edited, probably to keep from getting the anime put into a much more mature category. Satsuki takes it like a champ, but only because she's learned how to endure it and her will is pure, unalloyed adamantium.
It's hard to place them. On the one hand, you could probably very successfully argue that Zouken was much worse than Ragyu during Sakura's "training," but Sakura's "training" only lasted a year or two before Zouken gave up on trying to break her completely, because he didn't have a wedge to pry open the walls she'd placed around her heart. Ragyu's treatment of Satsuki and Ryuko in any particular instance isn't as bad as Zouken throwing Sakura into a pit of worms to be raped over and over, but her actions are spread out over a longer period of time, so it really depends on the question: which is worse? A relatively short period of extremely intense abuse, followed by callous neglect, or callous neglect punctuated with regular moments of abuse over the course of a long time?
No one wins in this no matter what. But it remains that Marisbury and Tokiomi weren't great parents, but they also weren't as monstrous as they could have been, at least to their kids.
- Location
- Madness realms
What a truly awful subject to have as a story alert bring me to.
In short, Tokiomi was too caught up on the hypothetical image of Rin and Sakura as adult magi that he committed grievous negligence.
Zouken committed arguably the most despicable act of cruelty on child imaginable but when it turned out it wasn't working out gave up on her entirely in order to save resources, since to me it seems like many of the crest worms were outright used up in the process.
The thing is Gendo Ikari and Zouken have this in common: Their cruelty has a purpose, at least in their own mind. It's not there to help them sort out their internal issues but to fulfill a goal. That's horrifying, especially in Zouken case because he can and would cut his losses if it turned out to be futile.
Ragyo Kiryuin was cruel for its own sake, which, while disturbing, is something that can be levered and manipulated into traps. It doesn't happen in her own story because it's not that kind of story. In fate she would struggle I think, because by the end of kill la kill Ragyo had decades to set everything up in her favour. By definition, fate/ stay night prevents the magi from having more than a few months of preparation time, unless one is part of the three families. The servants get even less time to set up.
Zouken committed arguably the most despicable act of cruelty on child imaginable but when it turned out it wasn't working out gave up on her entirely in order to save resources, since to me it seems like many of the crest worms were outright used up in the process.
The thing is Gendo Ikari and Zouken have this in common: Their cruelty has a purpose, at least in their own mind. It's not there to help them sort out their internal issues but to fulfill a goal. That's horrifying, especially in Zouken case because he can and would cut his losses if it turned out to be futile.
Ragyo Kiryuin was cruel for its own sake, which, while disturbing, is something that can be levered and manipulated into traps. It doesn't happen in her own story because it's not that kind of story. In fate she would struggle I think, because by the end of kill la kill Ragyo had decades to set everything up in her favour. By definition, fate/ stay night prevents the magi from having more than a few months of preparation time, unless one is part of the three families. The servants get even less time to set up.
- Location
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She at least has the excuse of being brainwashed by the Original Life Fiber.