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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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rafuki22 said:
Didn't that have a canon answer about how the main singularities were different from other singularities were Chaldean servants could enter aplenty?

I think that i remember an answer like that.
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Yeah, here it is, thanks to Grue.
Heian-Kyo's pre-Rayshift stuff explains it:
Da Vinci As for how we determine whether even that's a possibility, it all comes down to a Singularity's essence.
Da Vinci By which I mean, how harshly it treats elements that didn't originally exist in that history.
Da Vinci To put it another way, how many gaps it has through which foreign elements might slip in.
Da Vinci For example, if a Singularity were to occur at a crucial point in human history, there would be almost no room to bend the rules regarding what sort of outside elements were allowed.
Da Vinci But a minute Singularity's restrictions aren't nearly so, well, strict...
Da Vinci ...which means there's room to fudge things, presumably allowing us to Rayshift contracted Heroic Spirits in alongside Master.
Da Vinci The same mostly holds true for Pseudo-Singularities, too.
Da Vinci We've seen some cases where select Heroic Spirits were able to Rayshift along thanks to their bonds, temperament, traits, or other unique characteristics.
Da Vinci For example, with the Agartha incident, Astolfo and d'Eon had no problem tagging along.
Da Vinci In Salem, we managed to send Robin Hood, Sanson, and Mata Hari.
Da Vinci With the Shinjuku case, we could have technically sent a few Servants along...
Da Vinci ...but they ended up unable to Rayshift all the way there thanks to a certain professor's interference.
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TLDR: The more significant a Singularity is the less leeway there is to get stuff in.
 
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ic3shard13 said:
Uh? Didn't Gorgon's head went into Athena's shield? If I'm not wrong, what spilled in the ocean was the blood.
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Braelyn said:
That's from the movie, Clash of the Titans. In mythology, Perseus gave Medusa's head to Athena.
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The version of the story I read has Perseus tossing Medusa's head into the ocean.

Where it inexplicably petrifies sand as it rolls around, this being the mythological explanation for coral.
 
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James D. Fawkes said:
Geez, though. Maybe I shouldn't have made Forneus so huge, because it made him hard to kill. I didn't want it to be as easy as the Flauros fight was, because I didn't want Aife to be the solution they could throw at the problem and have it be solved, but that meant I had to do a whole lot more to make it work.

Not sure yet what this will mean for future Demon Pillar fights, though.
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You could make future Demon Pillars tough in different ways, for example one that's strong against physical attacks but weak to magical damage
But in the end you kinda did this to yourself, by making "punch it really hard" work on the first one
 
How many random human feet does Davy Jones have in that locker?

And for that matter, given how there are tons of major American cities right on the oceanfront, how many pairs of Jordans and black Nike Air Force 1s does he have?
 
Touch Dom said:
You could make future Demon Pillars tough in different ways, for example one that's strong against physical attacks but weak to magical damage
But in the end you kinda did this to yourself, by making "punch it really hard" work on the first one
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I mean, since every Servant is made up of spiritrons instead of physical matter, doesn't that mean that basically any attack by a Servant's own weapons is magical, let alone Noble Phantasms?

It might be an interesting mixup to not have destroying the Demon Pillar itself be the hard part, but have them force the heroes into running battles to knock out the anchors for a Bounded Field that's been set up to drain the Servants and Masters, or that they've got the Grail hidden some distance away fueling their regeneration via a mystical link and supercharging them to be implacable to all attacks.

Because the real problem thus far hasn't really been 'you just need to punch it really hard to kill it', it's that the two battles thus far have just been 'heroes do an attack, Demon Pillar goes some variety of "ow", the heroes stand around and express disbelief that the attack wasn't enough to kill Demon Pillar, rinse and repeat'. It makes the Demon Pillars just feel very static as enemies, like they're just health sponges there to annoy you and make you waste resources.

The way they keep being staggered and surprised by everything that hurts them without killing them and constantly being interrupted, they don't really feel threatening, they just feel like a timesink.

And aside from all this, it makes Taylor come across as very odd when she also expresses surprise at the Demon Pillars being hard to kill. Like, she spent years fighting the Endbringers; she of all people should be used to an enemy that just shrugs off everything imaginable being thrown at them.
 
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Hm. I have to say, there was a lot of reacting to things, talking, and having one Servant try things at a time for a fight with a high-tier regenerator. I can excuse that for a lot of the characters, but Taylor knows better. Accepting a battle of attrition rather than an alpha strike is a good way to waste your efforts, tire yourself out, and die.
 
The other obvious thing to do is to flip some so rather than being larger giving them basically more hp make some smaller with other advantages such as they are denser so have higher def or have more resources to spend to things like regeneration or atks. Perhaps by being smaller they could even do things like fire weaker but faster blasts including multiple at once or shoot lasers instead of point explosions.
 
Evil Atlas said:
Hm. I have to say, there was a lot of reacting to things, talking, and having one Servant try things at a time for a fight with a high-tier regenerator. I can excuse that for a lot of the characters, but Taylor knows better. Accepting a battle of attrition rather than an alpha strike is a good way to waste your efforts, tire yourself out, and die.
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I mean, from FGO's perspective, Alpha strikes aren't necessarily the best option, especially once you count things like Guts and Break Bars. ;)
 
James D. Fawkes said:
"Don't worry, Darling! I'll protect you from everything, even my big brother!"
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if i recall, didn't she litteraly help her mom with the birthing of apollo? she's the elder sister by seconds to minutes if i recall
James D. Fawkes said:
I opened my mouth to start explaining.

"HAVE YOU EXHAUSTED YOURSELVES, WORMS?"
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she uh never did get to explaining, even when she had time, she spent a lot of time just kinda watching others fight, when she could be explaining, she's kinda wasting the time she was given
AurielReaver said:
Even makes sense why if you start throwing so many Noble phantasms at something it's eventually going to succumb to Magical Artillery be killed by one of the more specific Thematic interactions or if not either Run or throw more
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yeah throwing the whole kitchen sink at the problem is the go to for endbringers too, makes sense why you'd try it, might get lucky and hit some unseen weakspot or just wittle the enemy down
Sir_Travelsalot said:
And aside from all this, it makes Taylor come across as very odd when she also expresses surprise at the Demon Pillars being hard to kill. Like, she spent years fighting the Endbringers; she of all people should be used to an enemy that just shrugs off everything imaginable being thrown at them.
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also yeah this, this doesn't feel like how taylor usually does endbringer esque fights, she's just watching a lot, which is fine when she can't really do anything... but there are times when she can and then doesn't, like with the explaining thing. there's also the thing where only one servant tries a thing at a time, instead of taking a few seconds to coordinate a simultaneous strike or something, if you hit it with 3 np's at once it might do more than just one at a time, which leads on to the thing where seemingly only one or two servants act at a time when really you've got like 5 servants ready and able, the archers are only ever seen attempting something once or twice and then just kinda stand back, if nothing else, the negligible but existant damage their arrow barrages do should at least still exist ya know? it's nothing major or anything, but it's stuff that could be improved to make the fights seem more 'real' or something, as is, it's almost turn based, like the game, as opposed to what it probably should be.
 
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On the future Demon Pillar front, maybe you could do something with their quote unquote "true forms", like we have seen with Baal, Phenex, and technically even with Draco's seven Sin-Dragons; Luxuria, Avaritia, and Invidia? That and there's also the matter that the Pillars seem to have different specializations, even if broadly related to say their main cluster-group and functions. Some might be summoners, some might be elemental inclined, hell maybe even do something with Imaginary Numbers, or Curses on the less odd end.


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I mean, so far, the Demon Pillars have been acting more or less as they did in canon, the problem is that outside the format of the game it's difficult to make that interesting.

Perhaps leaning on the specializations in the Ars Goetia some would help?
 
Roaming_Guardian said:
Huh, so that being the case, why didn't Jones pull out any of the heavier artillery? By read, Davy Jones gets ALL the warships that sink, including up to the 'modern' era.

We had the opportunity to pull the Yamato out of the briny deeps to slam 18 inches of fuck you into an abomination.
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They are in a singularity that takes place in the 1400s, modern warships are not currently in the ocean. They can take advantage of sunk Noble phantasms but not things that are not in the sea yet.
 
Barghest Blue said:
I mean, so far, the Demon Pillars have been acting more or less as they did in canon, the problem is that outside the format of the game it's difficult to make that interesting.

Perhaps leaning on the specializations in the Ars Goetia some would help?
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Yeah that's the key problem. This is an accurate depiction of what it's like to fight the Demon Pillars in FGO, translated to work in a narrative instead of a turn-based rpg. Unfortunately as boss battles, the Demon Pillars are a bunch of boring health-sinks.
 
On the subject of what to do with further Demon Pillars, I like what you've done with the Demon Pillar fights we've seen so far, that being said, I also agree that something will need to change for the future fights. My suggestion would be to have certain NPs do more damage or be more effective against appropriate demon pillars, like maybe Flauros, for instance, would take a lot more damage from Jack because she denies one of his core functions. Failing that, I saw someone else suggest adding effectively side-objectives to the battles.
Either way, with it being made clear that Demon Pillars are deeply invested in the Incineration of Humanity, I think that Taylor's probably going to want to start running the twins through what is effectively 'Endbringer Training' AKA How to fight, when you know that you can't do more than survive and maybe help drive the enemy off.
 
Another option might be to see Demon Pillars doing more Magecraft then just using their Mystic Eyes, like actually make ritual circles, perhaps by blasting and or warping the landscape so cleanly that it does 'Stuff'. They know and are in some ways literal Magecraft from what I understand of the Demon Pillars. Thus far it feels like what the Pillars have been doing is equivalent to how naturally a Dragon is breathing fire, not really much Magecraft at play, and more so using their innate Mystery.
 
The Void said:
On the future Demon Pillar front, maybe you could do something with their quote unquote "true forms", like we have seen with Baal, Phenex, and technically even with Draco's seven Sin-Dragons; Luxuria, Avaritia, and Invidia?
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I don't think that's really their "true forms", they feel more like humanoid forms they take when they need to be slightly subtler than house-sized pillars of flesh.
 
The closest to a true form is probably the eye-tentacle thing, though even that may not be given how some of them and/or goetia remark that one way they are superior to humans is "not requiring flesh and blood", so they may view their true self as not their bodies.
 
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