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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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Parks_98 said:
Wait Galahad is suppose to look like an adult? Honestly when we saw him in Moonlight Lostroom he looked more like a teenager/Young Adult to me.
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Even still. To fit the timeline as we know it so far, he'd be, like, 5 years old or younger.

Now, this is all obviously less of an issue when you have a King Arthur who has been ruling for twenty or thirty years and is pushing 50 or 60 by the time of Camlann, as well as a Lady of the Lake who doesn't have to be in two, three, or four places at once to fulfill all of her roles, because that leaves a whole lot more room to work with and far more time for things to happen, but for Nasuland's Arthurian timeline? Things are so tight that I'm not sure everything can even fit in the way it's been described to us.
 
To be mildly fair to the Nasuverse, it is entirely possible that Morgan, regardless of her personalities and roles, whether as an incarnation of Britain itself, or as a fae, did these things in separate Camelot timelines. Which then got complied together either due to the Throne allowing all those versions to meet up, to find a common denominator, because of Timelocks pushing events a certain way, or alternatively Morgan's 'Mental bodies' letting her multitask.

For the last one I presume her actual body was involved in those cases where a knight was born from herself, but wouldn't be too terribly shocked if a mental body did either...
 
yeah the way i got it was that she as a servant was summoned as those 3, a wierd merger due to the wacky nature of servants, not that morgan in life was 3 people at once, although, given she can in fact make clones of herself, being 3 people at once isn't, like, impossible
 
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Lady of the Lake (Informational) - by James D. Fawkes
  • Apocrypha
    • Lady of the Lake [Term]

    The faerie of the lake. The woman at times worshipped akin to a water goddess. In her oldest form, Vivian.

    When Vivian's purpose as a faerie was fulfilled, however, two offspring were born at the same time, each inheriting a portion of her power and Authority. The first of these was Nimue, who would go on to raise Lancelot and Bors, two Knights of the Round Table, in France in the kingdom of Benoic. Later, she would take up the role of Custodian of the Holy Sword(Lady of the Lake), and she would become King Arthur's ally, distributing Arondight, Galatine, and Excalibur to him and his knights. A "good" faerie who willingly surrendered the Isle of Britain to the advancing mankind and constructed the castle, Camelot.

    The second of these was Morgan, daughter of King Uther. Had she but followed the same path, the outcome could have been vastly different. However, the portion of Viviane's legacy inside of her fed upon her resentment and jealousy, and the loving sister of King Arthur became a vile witch, and in the moments where she could not contain her darker impulses, she acted against King Arthur, stealing the scabbard of the holy sword that protected him, conspiring with his enemies, and creating Mordred. A "bad" faerie who fought to take Britain back from the encroaching humans and wanted to return it to a land of Mystics.

    Burdened by her conflicting roles and positions, Morgan le Fae came to embody all the worst aspects of the faeries: their cruelty, whimsy, and capriciousness. Alternating between friend and foe, she was ultimately responsible for the downfall of Camelot, even if she may eventually have regretted her part in it.
    There. i fixed it.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • The-Chained-One said:
    yeah the way i got it was that she as a servant was summoned as those 3, a wierd merger due to the wacky nature of servants, not that morgan in life was 3 people at once, although, given she can in fact make clones of herself, being 3 people at once isn't, like, impossible
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    That's not what any of it ever says. When Holmes starts positing how things worked, he specifically says the reason why she's depicted so erratically in the myths is because she was, in fact, three people existing in the same body.

    Also, the clone thing has not stopped being stupid. It will never stop being stupid. Even if Nasu eventually explains how it works, it will remain stupid, because his first explanation was to have her say, "What do you mean? It's not that complicated. Any competent mage should be able to do it," instead of blaming it on something sensible, like using her canonical water Authority to create water clones. Half my problem with her feats has to do with the fact that every explanation for them boils down to, "Well, she's just a genius, don't you know, so of course she can do crazy stuff like that."
     
    James D. Fawkes said:
    Also, the clone thing has not stopped being stupid. It will never stop being stupid. Even if Nasu eventually explains how it works, it will remain stupid, because his first explanation was to have her say, "What do you mean? It's not that complicated. Any competent mage should be able to do it," instead of blaming it on something sensible, like using her canonical water Authority to create water clones. Half my problem with her feats has to do with the fact that every explanation for them boils down to, "Well, she's just a genius, don't you know, so of course she can do crazy stuff like that."
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    On one hand, Morgan high skill level, plus her lack of experience with modern/other magecraft users, could skew her impression of "Any competent mage should be able to perfectly clone themselves." Remember that there are three magecraft users in all of Britain : Castoria, whose Merlin Magecraft is more pipe bombs than actual magecraft. Baobhan Sith, who only used it because she was Morgan's daughter and used primarily mystic codes. And Morgan, who not only had her panhuman's self memories of magecraft, but also like 5000 years to improve on said magecraft.

    At this point it isn't surprising that the immortal faerie who receive magical energy from literally everyone in Fairy Britain would have a skewed threshold for what a competent mage is.
     
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    I just chose to believe it is largely a territory thing falling into the large Nasuverse trope of don't assault a Magus in their Workshop where Fairy Camelot is the workshop she has been building for 2000 years. In a manner of speaking setting it so she couldn't do it anywhere else. Even then it's still dumb but not as dumb as figuring out the basics of Rayshifting in a single night dumb.
     
    Woke up, took a look through
    Man, why do my sessions of dunking on the Nasuverse version of Arthur's cycle lore never coincide with the sessions of the rest of the thread? :V
     
    James D. Fawkes said:
    Also, the clone thing has not stopped being stupid. It will never stop being stupid. Even if Nasu eventually explains how it works, it will remain stupid, because his first explanation was to have her say, "What do you mean? It's not that complicated. Any competent mage should be able to do it," instead of blaming it on something sensible, like using her canonical water Authority to create water clones. Half my problem with her feats has to do with the fact that every explanation for them boils down to, "Well, she's just a genius, don't you know, so of course she can do crazy stuff like that."
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    Honestly I've just kind of assumed she was trash talking. Sort of a "look just how far you're beneath me and how incompetent you are in comparison to me."
     
    James D. Fawkes said:
    That's not what any of it ever says. When Holmes starts positing how things worked, he specifically says the reason why she's depicted so erratically in the myths is because she was, in fact, three people existing in the same body.

    Also, the clone thing has not stopped being stupid. It will never stop being stupid. Even if Nasu eventually explains how it works, it will remain stupid, because his first explanation was to have her say, "What do you mean? It's not that complicated. Any competent mage should be able to do it," instead of blaming it on something sensible, like using her canonical water Authority to create water clones. Half my problem with her feats has to do with the fact that every explanation for them boils down to, "Well, she's just a genius, don't you know, so of course she can do crazy stuff like that."
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    And, as the cherry to top this sundae of stupidity, Morgan technically shouldn't be able to be summoned in the first place on account of her not actually being dead. The version of Morgan that Nasu has gone with never died, and she lacks the loopholes being used to allow Merlin and Scathach to be summoned, thus there is no way for Beryl to have summoned Morgan in the first place.
     
    Code-Perseus said:
    And, as the cherry to top this sundae of stupidity, Morgan technically shouldn't be able to be summoned in the first place on account of her not actually being dead. The version of Morgan that Nasu has gone with never died, and she lacks the loopholes being used to allow Merlin and Scathach to be summoned, thus there is no way for Beryl to have summoned Morgan in the first place.
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    is this her actually living forever for some reason like merlin or just her not having a canonical death event and thus she must still be alive? cause like, if its the first i'd like to know from where that's said, if its the second tho, then technically medea doesn't either, she's got no myths in which she actually dies, she just kinda stops appearing overtime in myths
     
    The-Chained-One said:
    is this her actually living forever for some reason like merlin or just her not having a canonical death event and thus she must still be alive?
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    Iirc its that she's got a plan to rez Artoria* or something, and she (Morgan) needs to be alive for it. Might be mixing it up with something else though.

    *in part fulfilling that "Future King" part of "Once and Future King."
     
    Isiri Pudireach said:
    Iirc its that she's got a plan to rez Artoria* or something, and she (Morgan) needs to be alive for it. Might be mixing it up with something else though.
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    If you are referring to Gray's backstory no, Morgan in this case laid the foundations of the plan itself because the village was founded by people that either were venerating her or were THAT obsessed with the idea of a return of the King and thus aided in the plan, and remember that it took to the Battle of Camlann to the Fourth Holy Grail War for said plan to bear a fruit in the form of Gray-chan.
    But nowhere is stated that "Morgan has to be here in flesh and blood" is a key component of said plan.
     
    Isiri Pudireach said:
    Might mistake her for her mom...
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    Stahor said:
    Singularity!Taylor is 15 and fresh-faced.
    Chaldea!Taylor is 20+ and lived.. harsh.. life.
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    Cue Olga assuring Chaldea!Taylor she is in fact beautiful awe-inspiring she is physically fit and well proportioned in body and face, carries herself with a commanding presence, and her grooming habits are above average which combined make her objectively attractive according to conventional standards.
    ... As befitting a representative of Chaldea.
     
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    The-Chained-One said:
    is this her actually living forever for some reason like merlin or just her not having a canonical death event and thus she must still be alive? cause like, if its the first i'd like to know from where that's said, if its the second tho, then technically medea doesn't either, she's got no myths in which she actually dies, she just kinda stops appearing overtime in myths
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    Because the most common outcome for Morgan(and presumably the one Nasu used for her) is for her to end up in Avalon as well, waiting for that day when Arthur(Artoria in this case) will wake once more. In addition, depending on whether or not you consider the Matter of France to be a canonical extension of the Arthurian story, she also ends up married to Ogier the Dane, the last surviving member of the Paladins, who in turn also cannot be summoned due to him still being alive. As a result, PHH Morgan cannot actually be summoned due to her still being alive in Avalon, and lacking the loopholes used by Merlin to be summoned.
     
    Code-Perseus said:
    Because the most common outcome for Morgan(and presumably the one Nasu used for her) is for her to end up in Avalon as well, waiting for that day when Arthur(Artoria in this case) will wake once more. In addition, depending on whether or not you consider the Matter of France to be a canonical extension of the Arthurian story, she also ends up married to Ogier the Dane, the last surviving member of the Paladins, who in turn also cannot be summoned due to him still being alive. As a result, PHH Morgan cannot actually be summoned due to her still being alive in Avalon, and lacking the loopholes used by Merlin to be summoned.
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    Artoria in FGO references the events of FSN, which means her summoning is after the contract she made with Alaya. Avalon is an afterlife for her, from which she explicitly can't be summoned because it's located on the Reverse Side and not connected with the Throne.

    Which does fuck all to prevent that.
     
    Raiseth said:
    Artoria in FGO references the events of FSN, which means her summoning is after the contract she made with Alaya. Avalon is an afterlife for her, from which she explicitly can't be summoned because it's located on the Reverse Side and not connected with the Throne.

    Which does fuck all to prevent that.
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    But, just like Merlin and Scathach, Artoria is abusing a Loophole. Namely, Alaya is fronting her Summon, the same way EMIYA is summonable. Alaya is actively allowing Artoria to be summoned despite her not being able to be summoned otherwise.
     
    Code-Perseus said:
    But, just like Merlin and Scathach, Artoria is abusing a Loophole. Namely, Alaya is fronting her Summon, the same way EMIYA is summonable. Alaya is actively allowing Artoria to be summoned despite her not being able to be summoned otherwise.
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    I was under the impression it was a post UBW Artoria, meaning the one who forsook the Grail, but became a Heroic Spirit instead of going to Avalon.

    The lore on that is all messed up.
     
    Here's an idea.
    Artoria is still answering the call, even in Avalon. Using the remnants of the broken pact with Alaya.
    The events of FGO are just asking for 'The Once and Future King' to answer.

    Who knows FGO Artoria could be from after Stay Night, but before she returns her swords.
     
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