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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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OculusObservatum said:
Ok now I'm curious, which class would contain the most of Heroic Spirit Theo?
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This is something I've actually put a fair amount of consideration into since I got into fate. Short answer? Ruler.

On a longer note, Theo would have four classes he could be summoned as, most likely, going from least to most fitting they would be:

-Assassin: An Embodiment of theodores suppressed ruthlessness and the aspect of himself that wanted to, and did, follow in Taylor's footsteps. Pretty much devoid of the rest of who Theo was, or at least suppressing it. Theo would often prepare, learn, and study before an attack, and would just as often attack from afar as he would up close. Thus making him a candidate for the Assassin class.

-Berserker: the aspect of Theodore revolving around and defining his righteous anger and hatred against both Jack and the empire. A cold fury that simmered beneath the surface, only emerging in rare bouts. Though it wasn't known to most, we see it in his interludes and his fight against Jack. Qualifying him, to some extent, for Berserker.

-Lancer: Theodores more chivalrous and Heroic side. Defining hid want to help, to remember the fallen and save who he can. Though Theodore doesn't use a spear, not all lancers do, such as romulus, Elizabeth Barthony, and enkidu, use methods other than spears despite being lancers. The same goes for Theo: with his fists acting as his "spear".

-Ruler: the closest thing to the true Theodore. A Theodore that died in middle age. The type of person we see in ward, where he has moved past what has happened, and accepted his regrets, helping others, such as rain, move on. He is no longer bound by regrets, thus no longer covets the grail. As a keeper of law in life, he thus will act as one again in death. A Theodore who has finished his journey.

Those are my thoughts on Theodores classes. As for why Caster isn't among them, generally we see casters as either actual spell casters, or as story tellers(like shakespeare) neither of which are really something Theodore was. I won't say he can't qualify for it, but the problem is, other than territory creation, Theodore doesn't have an other skills or noble phantasms that would make him qualify for Caster. It's just not a class he's well suited to.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Further out, I waited until Arash had left the wyvern's corpse behind and started back our direction before setting upon it with every bug I had available in the vicinity. In death, at least, it seemed to have lost some of its mystery, or perhaps the fauna in this Singularity were simply more used to it, because they didn't immediately explode from getting too close and being overwhelmed by its innate magical power.

That might have been why it had actually been a problem in Orléans; the wyverns there hadn't been native to that time or that location, and because they'd been from a bygone era, the bugs weren't accustomed to the level of power those wyverns took for granted. The end result was bugs popping whenever they got too close.

In this Singularity, with things mashed together the way they were, it seemed that the bugs were more acclimated to that power, so they didn't explode, not even when I set them to devouring the corpse and removing the evidence of its existence. The organs and the remaining meat were going to be easy enough to deal with, it seemed, but the scales and the bones looked like they were going to be much more stubborn.
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....she doesn't seem to realize it, and she skipped out on the Wyvern carving but...

Are her swarm attacks ALSO dragonslaying now?
Not very strongly, but that looks like it.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
One of these days, we were going to find ourselves in a situation where Emiya didn't have a gadget he could pull out of his ass to make things quicker and easier, and, being fair, Rika probably wouldn't be the only one missing the convenience.
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Yeah Emiya might not bet the greatest fighter, but in term of sheer versatility in, and outside of combat, he's probably the best you could pull.
Managing to get him so early was really kind of a blessing.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Fuck me, I was actually questioning the durability of a stuffed bear.
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Nonono, that was an entirely reasonable avenue of thought. Getting some use out of Orion was sadly doomed to failure from the premise.

James D. Fawkes said:
Reports of my death were greatly exaggerated, Lisa might have said there. It wasn't the right thing for the situation, so I wisely kept it off of my tongue.
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Oh, come on. Rika'd probably have appreciated it.
James D. Fawkes said:
I wasn't quite sure what else to do, though. I didn't… It wasn't that I had never given anyone comfort before. That moment with Brian, pulling him back from the headspace of his trigger event — but even that was a bit different. Not the same. I didn't think it would work quite so well on a girl like Rika, and this wasn't about trying to anchor her to the moment instead of letting her get stuck in her own head.

So maybe a good question was…if that one, terrible day that had so changed the course of my life had turned out to be nothing more than a nightmare, how would Mom have comforted me? What would she have said and done as I cried into her chest about how it was so real that I'd thought she died?
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Might I suggest hugging back? Audacious, I know.

James D. Fawkes said:
Slowly, hesitantly, I brought my arms up and gently wrapped them around Rika's shoulders. I closed my eyes and imagined for a moment the woman I had always looked up to, the one person I had always felt was better than I could ever hope to be. Her voice was the one I needed, just then.

"I'm here, Rika," I murmured into her ear. "It's okay. I'm here."

Rika only clutched me tighter, as though to reassure herself that it was true.
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There you go.
 
Isiri Pudireach said:
But Lancer Liz uses a spear when she's fighting? It just happens to double as a microphone stand, but it is canonically a spear first and foremost.
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Ah. I forgot. I never used her so I just assumed. I like maintaining some accuracy/tone in grand order as u play.

Surprisingly, a small demon child with a microphone doesn't fit in France. I don't really know what the creators of go were thinking there.

That's probably one of the changes I like most about hereafter actually. The fact that, where ever it can, it maintains as much of a sense of historical accuracy as possible.

But yeah. I forgot about her mic
 
crabbmanboi said:
Ah. I forgot. I never used her so I just assumed. I like maintaining some accuracy/tone in grand order as u play.

Surprisingly, a small demon child with a microphone doesn't fit in France. I don't really know what the creators of go were thinking there.

That's probably one of the changes I like most about hereafter actually. The fact that, where ever it can, it maintains as much of a sense of historical accuracy as possible.

But yeah. I forgot about her mic
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Elizabeth doesn't fit into the era, but she does play an important role one the themes of Orleans. Specifically in how Eli and Carmilla are similar to both Gilles de Rais and both Jannes. Identity and dark reflections are a major theme in the canon singularity and I found it a small shame that this story didn't build on that.
 
Stahor said:
Taylor spends a lot of screen time thinking about bear, but zero time about Archer herself, who has number of unusual elements to her.
Is there a reason narration totally ignores her?
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It's just that her inner Beast is already considering how she will fight against the Grand Servant.

By the way, I wonder if Orion will feel that she is a Beast Candidate. For I don't remember if he reacted to Fou in canon, but just imagine his inner thoughts from all the absurdity of the situation when two Beast candidates are fighting against the third Beast for the sake of saving humanity, and not what the Beasts usually do to it.
 
Yeah, as others have been talking about, I too was a bit confused as to why Taylor wasn't talking to "Archer". She went on a tangent several times about how boring things were, while being confused by the bear. Yet she never even tried to ask "Archer" her name, much less engage in a conversation like what she did with Bellamy.

James D. Fawkes said:
"So, on the bright side, it's at least edible! That's something, isn't it? Right, Master?"
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Poor Bradamante... She's fishing for a compliment that Taylor will never even consider uttering. Hell, that ending was enough of a clue. She didn't even know how to react to Rika, or anyone, being concerned for her safety. To even comprehend a hug she had to emulate her mom. I mean, I hope this helps Taylor start to open up a bit. Ya know, get some emotional healing in. But it really is sad that Taylor had no idea of what to do in that kind of situation.

Finagle007 said:
Wonder how she'll react to Drake having killed Poseidon...
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Now that's a good point... And since they are Olympians? Either Artemis is going to be happy that her asshole uncle got ganked, or she's going to throw a temper tantrum. The entire thing really is 50/50 with the gods of that pantheon. On a side note to this? I'm daydreaming of Taylor or Rika asking Artemis why Attila/Altera had a space lazer as her noble phantasm.
 
One one hand, I tend to feel that post-GM Taylor not knowing what to do with affection is overplayed. She got a much-needed hug as recently as the beginning of Gold Morning, in this nice sequence:
Extinction 27.1 said:
There was nothing in the worlds that I wanted more than a hug and I couldn't bring myself to ask for one. My dad and Rachel were the only ones I could trust to offer one without further questions, without platitude or commentary, and I couldn't get to Rachel without going through the others. My dad was even farther from my reach.

The mask I'd erected to see things through to this point was cracking and I couldn't bear to show anyone my face.

...

I set foot on solid ground, and felt weirdly heavy when I did. It took me a moment to find my balance.

Tattletale caught me as the door closed beside us. Then she wrapped her arms around me in a hug. Odd, that she was shorter than me. When did that happen? I could remember her giving me a one-armed hug once, a long time ago. She'd been just a little taller than me then. Just the right height for a hug. Now we were like Foil and Parian. I was taller, receiving comfort from someone shorter than me.

I'd underestimated her. She didn't ask any questions or offer any sympathy.

"They're all here," she said. "Ready?"

I hesitated, then spoke. My voice was rough. "Ready."

We didn't budge. She didn't break the hug.

"Fuck it all," I muttered. My voice was still weird with emotion. Maybe I'd keep my mouth shut at this meeting.

"Fuck it," she agreed.

That said, we broke apart, took a second to breathe, and then made our way into the meeting room.
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On the other hand, if I'm remembering correctly it has been a couple of years since then, her mom would be the one she'd be most trying to emulate when comforting someone else, and she finally got a hug here in the Fateverse, so it's good enough for me.
 
Isiri Pudireach said:
Especially with the come-ons. Because even with her self confidence as a person, I doubt she sees herself as attractive.
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Oh, she absolutely doesn't. Her brain's busy trying to figure out whether Blackbeard and the bear are hallucinating, their standards are just that low, or if there's something she's genuinely missing ("but that can't be, right? I'm fully aware of my flaws...").
 
Evil Atlas said:
One one hand, I tend to feel that post-GM Taylor not knowing what to do with affection is overplayed. She got a much-needed hug as recently as the beginning of Gold Morning, in this nice sequence:


On the other hand, if I'm remembering correctly it has been a couple of years since then, her mom would be the one she'd be most trying to emulate when comforting someone else, and she finally got a hug here in the Fateverse, so it's good enough for me.
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She also got shot in the head and a ton of other stuff though honesty I'm completely distracted by the height bit since it says Lisa used to be taller than Taylor but wasn't anymore. For reference when Taylor triggered she was 5'7 at the start of January 2011, by the time she went out in costume at the start of that April she was 5'8, during her stint in prison she mentioned she'd been measured and grown to 5'9 she surrendered on the 14th of July so it would presumably be shortly after and gm when that occurred is 2013 by which point she'd grown to 5'10.

That places Lisa at around 5'9 herself. This is fairly odd given tons of worm fics make a big deal over Taylor's height even at the start of canon despite canon not actually caring that much and it turns out Lisa was taller but nothing is said about her. Of course that's probably because it's a detail from so late in worm about 80% of the fandom probably hasn't read it.
 
famfrit said:
She also got shot in the head and a ton of other stuff though honesty I'm completely distracted by the height bit since it says Lisa used to be taller than Taylor but wasn't anymore. For reference when Taylor triggered she was 5'7 at the start of January 2011, by the time she went out in costume at the start of that April she was 5'8, during her stint in prison she mentioned she'd been measured and grown to 5'9 she surrendered on the 14th of July so it would presumably be shortly after and gm when that occurred is 2013 by which point she'd grown to 5'10.

That places Lisa at around 5'9 herself. This is fairly odd given tons of worm fics make a big deal over Taylor's height even at the start of canon despite canon not actually caring that much and it turns out Lisa was taller but nothing is said about her. Of course that's probably because it's a detail from so late in worm about 80% of the fandom probably hasn't read it.
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Yeah.

I don't measure things in feet unless I absolutely have to, but I do know how to, so translating into centimeters, Taylor was never taller than 176-178.

Still respectable, but never particularly amazonian.

You have to understand, green eyed, 6 and a half feet goddess with abs you can grate cheese on who would step on you and you will like it is a fandom invention from the shipfics. Many people have a type. Nothing particularly wrong with that, and Taylor is pretty tall, but fanfiction likes to exaggerate things for effect.

Still better than some Japanese anime where everyone makes a huge deal out of how freakishly tall this character is, you look into the side materials and find they are 172cm tall, lol. My 14 years old niece is taller than entire casts of characters.
 
I don't think I've seen any fics make her quite that tall, they usually just mention that sshe's tall for girl, they even mention her height is about 5'8" - 5'10" range. The average height of adult women in the U.S. is 5'6", so that's taller than average, and she's in a city with a large Asian population, so a little bit more so.
 
...Aw. Tay gets her own moment of realization of just how much Rika and Ritsuka are depending on her emotionally. After all, "Senpai's a badass", and if she's not panicking then it feels like they can get through the situation somehow.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
So maybe a good question was…if that one, terrible day that had so changed the course of my life had turned out to be nothing more than a nightmare, how would Mom have comforted me? What would she have said and done as I cried into her chest about how it was so real that I'd thought she died?

If I could have had my wish on the Holy Grail, how would Mom have soothed me? How would she have filled the shadow that Dad had drowned in?

Slowly, hesitantly, I brought my arms up and gently wrapped them around Rika's shoulders. I closed my eyes and imagined for a moment the woman I had always looked up to, the one person I had always felt was better than I could ever hope to be. Her voice was the one I needed, just then.
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So I think everyone else has got things...pretty well commented on, but I want to focus on this particular bit because...
well for one, that's very on-brand for Taylor. Say what you will about Taylor, but her idealization of her mother is a major driving factor of her own moral compass, in trying to do what's right even if she fucks up. seeing this come out is very cute

for two, some people have mentioned that this really shows both Taylor and the audience how much the twins rely on Taylor as their rock, but it's also the first time Taylor has really succeeded in showing them she cares in return. Scary, confident badass? She's shown that plenty. Good at emotional support? Taylor's not really been great at that, even when she's tried, so seeing her trying something clearly outside her comfort zone for the sake of their emotional well-being- and it visibly working- shows some great progress in breaking down the walls between them. Good! And also cute from this angle!


and a distant third but I'm reeeeally fucking curious: what would Taylor's response to Tiamat be?
Because...if her one wish upon the Holy Grail would be to have her mother back (which...holy shit, yeah also makes sense)...god, how would Tiamat's entire deal mess with Taylor's head?
I'm just trying to imagine Taylor in Ritsuka's place in the Babylonia anime and just...how in the fuck would that conversation go?
i know we'll get to Babylonia eventually, and that vision may well never happen, but this bit has got me thinking...


(hell, not to mention that if Fawkes decides to get into the Lostbelts, Tiamat is actually summonable, and wouldn't that be a trip...)
 
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Zea_Dragon said:
...Aw. Tay gets her own moment of realization of just how much Rika and Ritsuka are depending on her emotionally. After all, "Senpai's a badass", and if she's not panicking then it feels like they can get through the situation somehow.
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Yeah. It's something that was sort of naturally understood, before, but it's interesting to be pushed to step back and actually examine how the team dynamics have developed.

Taylor is the rock, here. Always has been. Where the other humans may be flaky, or easily distracted, or panicky, or dead, and the Servants often refuse to take charge, Taylor is determined, unflappable, and competent. When the chips are down, when everything is confusing and scary, they can look to her and she'll pull out some sort of solution.

And while one might say it's impeded their growth, it's allowed the twins to be that much sillier, that much less mature, taking on responsibility at a more reasonable and less desperation-fueled pace. They don't have to be the "face" of the party in talks that could make or break humanity's survival. They don't have to be the tactical leaders for superhuman heroes. They can and do contribute, but it's not all on them.

From Taylor's perspective up to now, there's been some understanding of all that, but largely through a practical filter. Chaldea is a team, and the twins are her rookie teammates; it's her job to take the lead, to take care of the rookies, to take most of the pressure on herself while also training them up in case something happens to her. That she does genuinely care about them is almost completely disconnected from that. It's her job. It's assumed. It's simply what she does.

But from the twins' end? She's a giant. She's stability. She's the promise that things are going to come out okay. And the idea that she can just suddenly be gone, whether she's made plans for that or not? That's terrifying to them.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
"Oh, Darling, haven't I told you enough times?" she said. "The only one who can withstand your lustful stare is me!"

"He can stare all he wants. I don't particularly care," I told her mildly, and her smile froze. "The instant he crosses the line, though, I'll string him up in the nearest tree and introduce him to a few of my friends."
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I actually had a double-take right there, Taylor doesn't know how close she was to being killed or cursed at that moment. If she knew Artemis's identity, I doubt she would even dare to say something like that. Greek gods are vicious, jealous creatures.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
The hours passed like that, mindlessly, and the sun slowly slunk towards the horizon all the while.
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I commented on it previously, but issue continues. Taylor had plenty of time to think and plan.
1. She commented that she wanted to wait to brainstorm with others. They have communicators, they can do conference call.
Yes, time is not critical, but i would think it's something Taylor would just prefer to do, than simply sit around and be bored.
2. Still no call to Chaldea (besides check-in), to cooperate on "Who are other servants". It's not like list of european female pirates famous enough to become heroic spirit is long.
 
JadeDemilich said:
and a distant third but I'm reeeeally fucking curious: what would Taylor's response to Tiamat be?
Because...if her one wish upon the Holy Grail would be to have her family back (which...holy shit, yeah also makes sense)...god, how would Tiamat's entire deal mess with Taylor's head?
I'm just trying to imagine Taylor in Ritsuka's place in the Babylonia anime and just...how in the fuck would that conversation go?
i know we'll get to Babylonia eventually, and that vision may well never happen, but this bit has got me thinking...


(hell, not to mention that if Fawkes decides to get into the Lostbelts, Tiamat is actually summonable, and wouldn't that be a trip...)
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This is actually very much something I was thinking about, I recently finished the Babylonia anime(which outside of some bad cg here n there was fucking great and had the best gilgamesh to ever appear ever. Seriouslythat shit made me cry) but seeing ritsuka run to stab tiamat, I immediately thought that ritsula would probably offer to go, and taylor would either interrupt him or shut him down. Because Taylor is absolutely the person to make the sacrifice play.

Also, I really want to see her reaction to stuff like the Lion kings reasoning and actions.

But seriously, her and tiamat would be so so good.

I'm nor sure if tiamat is really summonable. For instance, in go you can summon scathath and Meelin, both of which are cannonically still alive. The only reason emiya was summoned in stay night, to my knowledge, was that he isn't that timelines shirou emiya. But he did still have to die first.

Merlin and scathath will die eventually but...

Well, I don't think it will occur.
 
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