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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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surprised taylor didn't consider whether wyvern meat was safe to eat, large carnivorous predators occationally to have enough vitamins in them that their meat is actually poisonous to us, i believe bear is the current major example, polar bears specifically comes to mind. there's also parasites and such to consider.
crabbmanboi said:
I'm nor sure if tiamat is really summonable. For instance, in go you can summon scathath and Meelin, both of which are cannonically still alive. The only reason emiya was summoned in stay night, to my knowledge, was that he isn't that timelines shirou emiya. But he did still have to die first.
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i do believe tiamat recently became summonable in fgo in some arcade crossover event
 
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Stahor said:
I commented on it previously, but issue continues. Taylor had plenty of time to think and plan.
1. She commented that she wanted to wait to brainstorm with others. They have communicators, they can do conference call.
Yes, time is not critical, but i would think it's something Taylor would just prefer to do, than simply sit around and be bored.
2. Still no call to Chaldea (besides check-in), to cooperate on "Who are other servants". It's not like list of european female pirates famous enough to become heroic spirit is long.
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That's actually, yeah.

Taylor doesn't really normally have "relax" and "destress" in her vernacular.
The author showed she somewhat managed to claw out something resembling a healthy work-life balance in Chaldea, but it was still heavily skewed towards the "work" part.

Then again, pre-Weaver arc there are some moments of relaxation like that, too. Y'know, in between plagues and explosions.
 
crabbmanboi said:
Well, I don't think it will occur.
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and you're probably right to think so, i just think that'd be really sweet

and i think it's been mentioned above but yeah, Tiamat was recently made summonable in FGO Arcade
typemoon.fandom.com

Larva Tiamat

Larva TiamatWP (ラーヴァ／ティアマト?), Class Name Alter Ego (アルターエゴ, Arutā Ego?), is an Alter Ego-class Servant summoned by Ritsuka Fujimaru in the Grand Orders of Fate/Grand Order Arcade and Fate/Grand Order. Larva Tiamat is an Alter Ego created by Tiamat of the Fate/Grand Order world for the purpose of...
typemoon.fandom.com typemoon.fandom.com

not sure if Fawkes wants to include or count that, but that possibility does exist
 
JadeDemilich said:
and you're probably right to think so, i just think that'd be really sweet

and i think it's been mentioned above but yeah, Tiamat was recently made summonable in FGO Arcade
typemoon.fandom.com

Larva Tiamat

Larva TiamatWP (ラーヴァ／ティアマト?), Class Name Alter Ego (アルターエゴ, Arutā Ego?), is an Alter Ego-class Servant summoned by Ritsuka Fujimaru in the Grand Orders of Fate/Grand Order Arcade and Fate/Grand Order. Larva Tiamat is an Alter Ego created by Tiamat of the Fate/Grand Order world for the purpose of...
typemoon.fandom.com typemoon.fandom.com

not sure if Fawkes wants to include or count that, but that possibility does exist
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Well the reason I said probably not is that, to my understanding, she's an event summon which normally aren't canon. I don't disagree that having tiamat be summoned and become a maternal figure would be sweet, I'm just not sure how canon her summoning is.

As other event summons include character but swimsuit and characters that canonically shouldn't be summonable.

Tiamat is in a very weird grey area
 
JadeDemilich said:
and you're probably right to think so, i just think that'd be really sweet

and i think it's been mentioned above but yeah, Tiamat was recently made summonable in FGO Arcade
typemoon.fandom.com

Larva Tiamat

Larva TiamatWP (ラーヴァ／ティアマト?), Class Name Alter Ego (アルターエゴ, Arutā Ego?), is an Alter Ego-class Servant summoned by Ritsuka Fujimaru in the Grand Orders of Fate/Grand Order Arcade and Fate/Grand Order. Larva Tiamat is an Alter Ego created by Tiamat of the Fate/Grand Order world for the purpose of...
typemoon.fandom.com typemoon.fandom.com

not sure if Fawkes wants to include or count that, but that possibility does exist
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You should reread that article. Tiamat's been summonable in arcade for a decent amount of time. It's just that Tiamat has only recently come out in FGO proper, even if she's still stuck in JP Jail.
 
Stahor said:
I commented on it previously, but issue continues. Taylor had plenty of time to think and plan.
1. She commented that she wanted to wait to brainstorm with others. They have communicators, they can do conference call.
Yes, time is not critical, but i would think it's something Taylor would just prefer to do, than simply sit around and be bored.
2. Still no call to Chaldea (besides check-in), to cooperate on "Who are other servants". It's not like list of european female pirates famous enough to become heroic spirit is long.
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1: there's no evidence I can think of in Hereafter of communicators being able to communicate with other communicators. It's Chaldea or no one, AFAIK.

2: that's what, a ten-minute call? I'm honestly surprised Taylor didn't know about Annie and Mary already.
 
Worldsoul15 said:
2: that's what, a ten-minute call? I'm honestly surprised Taylor didn't know about Annie and Mary already.
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There are a few things to remember. Taylor's main thing while she was studying to be a master was magic, which took up much of her time, and famous Servants. While Anne and Mary are famous to a degree, there not what one immediately thinks of in terms of famous beings one would want on their side. Not to mention that, like many servants, they look nothing like their historical counterparts.

Now Taylor's mom is am English professor, not a history professor, so Taylor's main focus would probably be on fiction and the classics as a child. Her only real study of non fiction, the triumvirate book, was due to her studying for her powers.

Now Taylor's mom was a feminist, however, I doubt she would want her daughter to look up to criminals as her role models, especially considering the disaster that is lustrum.

So while she might know about them, I'd say it's rather unlikely.
 
crabbmanboi said:
I'm nor sure if tiamat is really summonable. For instance, in go you can summon scathath and Meelin, both of which are cannonically still alive. The only reason emiya was summoned in stay night, to my knowledge, was that he isn't that timelines shirou emiya. But he did still have to die first.
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The "Indipendent Manifestation" Skill all Beasts (and Beast Candidates) possess makes the point moot, if Tia-mama wants to help Chaldea she can perfectly do so, either by using the Larva-self (Alter Ego from the Arcade that was made canon for the Portable part, at least only on the JP parts as of now) or by manifesting as a Beast-Class, as a variant of Nero did.
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
The "Indipendent Manifestation" Skill all Beasts (and Beast Candidates) possess makes the point moot, if Tia-mama wants to help Chaldea she can perfectly do so, either by using the Larva-self (Alter Ego from the Arcade that was made canon for the Portable part, at least only on the JP parts as of now) or by manifesting as a Beast-Class, as a variant of Nero did.
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Imagine a world where Marie didn't find Taylor, but she just shows up one day and starts helping out.
 
Do u guys think heracles will ever be summoned? Because he's been mentioned a number of times and is cannonically one of the strongest Servants, even as his weakest class of Berserker.

Seeing him and Taylor interact would be nice, and with taylor having sort of a found family thing going on, heracles acting like a paternal figure would be cool.

Also, can we just appreciate that, despite fate having some bad interpretations of myths and history, just how good nasu depicted heracles? I don't think there is a single other depuction that surpasses fate heracles in quality
 
crabbmanboi said:
Do u guys think heracles will ever be summoned? Because he's been mentioned a number of times and is cannonically one of the strongest Servants, even as his weakest class of Berserker.

Seeing him and Taylor interact would be nice, and with taylor having sort of a found family thing going on, heracles acting like a paternal figure would be cool.

Also, can we just appreciate that, despite fate having some bad interpretations of myths and history, just how good nasu depicted heracles? I don't think there is a single other depuction that surpasses fate heracles in quality
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...what.

Fate Herakles is basically only seen as Berserker, the class to which he is at his weakest and least personable. The closest thing we've gotten to the real Herakles after all these years is the STILL corrupted and twisted Herakles in the upcoming Fate/Strange Fake, but as an Archer, where he is insanely dangerous.

While I agree that it would be need for Archer!Herakles to be summoned, he's probably in the category of "too powerful to maintain story drama" for Chaldea to summon this early in the story. Which sucks, because Artoria Pendragon would be a phenomenal Servant for Taylor, creating a very interesting character dynamic between the two and adding to the hilarity of Emiya trying to deal with that situation.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
...what.

Fate Herakles is basically only seen as Berserker, the class to which he is at his weakest and least personable. The closest thing we've gotten to the real Herakles after all these years is the STILL corrupted and twisted Herakles in the upcoming Fate/Strange Fake, but as an Archer, where he is insanely dangerous.

While I agree that it would be need for Archer!Herakles to be summoned, he's probably in the category of "too powerful to maintain story drama" for Chaldea to summon this early in the story. Which sucks, because Artoria Pendragon would be a phenomenal Servant for Taylor, creating a very interesting character dynamic between the two and adding to the hilarity of Emiya trying to deal with that situation.
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Isn't the corrupted one an Avenger class but in any case I would point out that Archer Herk is technically seen there because we see his summoning and corruption. Herk also isn't in the to powerful for story drama category though because from what I've heard the summoned berserker version doesn't have god hand because either Ritsuka or Chaldea is unable to support it and without it he probably ends up below Aife and Siegfried in combat power for berserker if no other classes.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
...what.

Fate Herakles is basically only seen as Berserker, the class to which he is at his weakest and least personable. The closest thing we've gotten to the real Herakles after all these years is the STILL corrupted and twisted Herakles in the upcoming Fate/Strange Fake, but as an Archer, where he is insanely dangerous.
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The entirety of the battle of legend episode of unlimited blade works which is all about illya and heracles shows what I mean. He is a man of incredible unshaking will, one who clearly sees illya as his daughter and does still retain his sanity to some degree.

The whole scene of him breaking the chains of enkidu? Him crying over the deaths of his children in heavens feel?

Fate stay night depicts a man actually raked by the guilt of his actions, but is defined by his will to preserve and push through hardship.

Not only does the fate story of heracles maintain the actual myth rather than some Disney version of it, it shows how a real person would be affected by his actions, how someone like heracles would be affected.

All other stories basically have, as osp described, "ancient Greek superman with a dash of sports stardom"

Which is definitely not what fate depicts
 
SaltyWaffles said:
While I agree that it would be need for Archer!Herakles to be summoned, he's probably in the category of "too powerful to maintain story drama" for Chaldea to summon this early in the story. Which sucks, because Artoria Pendragon would be a phenomenal Servant for Taylor, creating a very interesting character dynamic between the two and adding to the hilarity of Emiya trying to deal with that situation.
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I know double posting is frowned upon, but I had more to say than I thought and it's been a few hours. Essentially, I don't think archer heracles is too strong. He's strong, or he should be, probably one of the strongest Servants, but this chaldea already has Servants like emiya and aífe, both of which are ridiculously powerful, though emiya hasn't shown to what extent.

Additionally, we've also seem Fawkes add or change things to make objectives more difficult, either by adding more Servants, changing abilities, or elaborating on circumstances(like we see with the anne vs the hind)

In essence, there are ways to increase difficulty in natural ways. Off the top of my head, if fawkes gives chaldea even stronger Servants they could have it so the heavenly bull Ishtar lost was corrupted by tiamats sea. Though it's not perfect, she did loose it and it would explain why its gone.

Though that us easier said then done, upping difficulty that is.

Another problem would be Archer heracles stats, but thanks to strange fake we do know some.

We know he'd have god hand, nine lives, the bow of Hydra and the pelt of the Divine beast.

Godhand is a given for heracles in all his classes. Nine Lives is straight up said to be accessible in all but Berserker. The bow if Hydra is heracles bow in general, and is something the wiki does say he has, and we know heracles has the pelt of the Divine beast/nemean Lion as in fakes manga we see it tied around his waist and after becoming alcides, he pulls it off and uses it as a shroud, so we see it in both forms.

This is however entirely speculation, though speculation I'm fairly confident in. We can also say that heracles archers strength is probably A+ as we see it for both alcides and Heracles berserker. But this is more uncertain.

Either way, easier said then done. Point is, I have full confidence that if fawkes wanted to/planned to, they very well could.
 
crabbmanboi said:
In essence, there are ways to increase difficulty in natural ways. Off the top of my head, if fawkes gives chaldea even stronger Servants they could have it so the heavenly bull Ishtar lost was corrupted by tiamats sea. Though it's not perfect, she did loose it and it would explain why its gone.

We know he'd have god hand, nine lives, the bow of Hydra and the pelt of the Divine beast.

Godhand is a given for heracles in all his classes. Nine Lives is straight up said to be accessible in all but Berserker. The bow if Hydra is heracles bow in general, and is something the wiki does say he has, and we know heracles has the pelt of the Divine beast/nemean Lion as in fakes manga we see it tied around his waist and after becoming alcides, he pulls it off and uses it as a shroud, so we see it in both forms.
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Fgo Ishtar doesn't have the bull because strange fake Ishtar stole it from her. I also believe that it's incorrect to say Alcides has the pelt as a np since I've heard his np is actually another one that represents his 12 labours and lets him pull out things related to them like the Nemean Lion pelt or the Hydra venom arrows.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Artoria Pendragon would be a phenomenal Servant for Taylor, creating a very interesting character dynamic between the two and adding to the hilarity of Emiya trying to deal with that situation.
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Would it would be Artoria who has memories working with Kiritsugu? Because she would definitely see similarities. And knowing how his story ended with Shiro.
 
The-Chained-One said:
surprised taylor didn't consider whether wyvern meat was safe to eat, large carnivorous predators occationally to have enough vitaminsin them that their meat is actually poisonous to us, i believe bear is the current major example, polar bears specifically comes to mind. there's also parasites and such to consider.
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Muscle meat when cooked to well done(which this was apparently cooked till Congratulations) is generally safe.

Most accumulation happens in organs, marrow and fat deposits
 
famfrit said:
I also believe that it's incorrect to say Alcides has the pelt as a np since I've heard his np is actually another one that represents his 12 labours and lets him pull out things related to them like the Nemean Lion pelt or the Hydra venom arrows.
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Well if you look at the wiki page for the bow of Hydra, which is essentially a copy taken from Archer heracles, it mentions that using flaming or Hydra blood arrows is simply part of the bow itself.


View: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-kD474IPQfySyyUAPONRINeZgmQc-wiy/view?usp=drivesdk


View: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-mN7o7QlDTNyDG811bAtL0DqC8SnzT7t/view?usp=drivesdk

Now as I stated, if you look at the pattern of the cloth around Archer heracles waist, and the pelt on alcides head, it's the same pattern. And alcides is shown pulling the cloth off of his waist.

I could be wrong here, but there is evidence to suggest that it was a noble phantasm that was already on him when he was normally summoned.
 
The biggest arguement I've heard in regards to 'Archer Herakles is his strongest version and Berserker is his weakest' is that...functionally speaking his stats aren't really all that different. He still has sky-high strength regardless of how he is summoned, but as an Archer he has more tricks up his metaphorical sleeve, more tools in his arsenal in addition to his tremendous strength, and his guile and tactical acumen is at his best.
by contrast Bererker strips most of his tactical acumen, most of his reasoning, his ability to use any active Noble Phantasms, and all his other combat options...in exchange for a boost to strength that for all practical intents and purposes is kind of meaningless

could be way off the mark, but the explanation does make sense to me


Am looking forward to how his situation turns out here though, especially to see if the underlying irony is present
because from the snippet i found, his appearance in okeanos ends up basically mirroring his previous incarnation- and death- in Fate/Stay Night, only now he is in Gilgamesh's shoes, and Asterios is in his, trying to protect his own version of Ilya...and apparently the irony is not entirely lost on Herc

but that's still probably a few weeks to a couple months off, so plenty of time left to speculate, and any number of things could still change
 
The most recently finished chapter is CVI: Thalassocide, and I'm about three or four chapters out, thereabouts, from finishing Okeanos. So yeah. If you're waiting for Herk, that's still about a month or so out, give or take a week or two.
 
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