Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]
- Thread starter James D. Fawkes
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I largely believe that would depend on the point in time from her legend she's pulled from. She'd probably have it as a Personal Skill as a Caster or Assassin (I personally believe she'd be like Semiras and be Duel Classed) but she definitely wouldn't have it as Berserker.
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Depends on how well known her fights with Lung were. And keep in mind that in-universe Lung is a curiosity at best. He lives in a third-rate city and nobody knows he tried to fight Leviathan once.
As for compatibility...
Taylor is unconsciously suicidal when lonely.
Taylor believes that with great power, must come great responsibility.
Taylor needs to be in control. She has massive trust issues in general. Her gut reaction is to assume any and all authority figures are some combination of incompetent, corrupt, and/or outright malicious. But, she hates it when others act selfishly by her own reckoning.
Taylor is terrible at seeing things from another's perspective.
Taylor is obsessive, driven, and strives to be stoic.
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Who here thinks it would be interesting if Taylor summoned khepri the God as a pseudo-servant? Because you know Taylor's life isn't suffering enough already how about the God she was named after looking like a clone of her.
She never killed Lung, at most she defeated him and Lung isn't a dragon, he's more of a Hyped up Lizard Man or a Waver.
That's early Taylor this is Post GM Taylor, most of her issues got curved also talking about Servant Taylor isn't really relevant to this thread since WoG said they weren't appearing.
WoG said that isn't happening read Essence of Silver and Steel if you want to see Servant Taylor kick ass though.
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Windborne
Devourer of Stories
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- Oregon
Taylor is a pretty complex character, and it really all depends on when she would summon that determines who she would get. Assuming all are without valid catalysts this is my list of who is most appropriately compatible and when in chronological order. I'm not including any non-Canon Servants, and at no point would she ever summon another version of herself without a Catalyst.
Taylor Pre-Annette's Death: Artoria (Lily)
Taylor Pre-Emma turning on her: Artoria (Lancer)
Taylor Pre-Locker Incident: Boudica
Taylor during the Locker Incident: Medea
Taylor Post-Locker Incident to Pre-Lung Debut: EMIYA
Taylor Post-Lung Debut to Leviathan (Skitter): Jekyll
Taylor Post-Leviathan to surrendering (Warlord Skitter): Vlad III (Extra before taking territory, Apocrypha after taking territory)
Taylor as Weaver Pre-S9000: Artoria (Original/OG)
Taylor as Weaver during S9000 and Gold Morning: Artoria (Alter/Salter)
Taylor as Khepri during Gold Morning: Gilgamesh (Archer)
Taylor Post-GM: Tamamo no Mae
As to why?
Lily would be when Taylor was most innocent, but still yearning to be a great Hero. Lily is just starting her journey to becoming King, she doesn't really know what she just gave up once she drew Caliburn. She's been told what she would give up, but she does not truly know.
Artoria (Lancer) would be after Annette has died, but Taylor still is fairly innocent and hasn't experienced betrayal, she still desires to become a shining beacon of heroism. Can't think of anything more fitting a shining beacon than Rhongomyniad and Artoria as the Perfect King would be very fitting to this Taylor.
Boudica would be when Taylor is most in need of guidance and support, a great Queen who survived the death of her entire family and being assaulted, but still led her people afterwards is an amazing fit, especially considering what we see of her motherly nature in F/GO.
Medea is self explanatory. It's in her title.
EMIYA would be to counteract her rashness and to demonstrate the harsh life of being a Hero, but also capable of supporting her to reaching her goal as long as she thinks things through.
Jekyll would be when Taylor is starting to slip into becoming a truly ruthless person. She also is wearing metaphorical masks around everyone, ones that could shatter at any time to let the uninhibited version of her out.
Vlad is an interesting one, if he was summoned immediately after Leviathan but before Taylor takes over the Undersiders and the territory given to her by Coil we'd likely see him in his Extra version, with the Innocent Monster Skill in full effect. Afterwards, when she's become a true Warlord, is when we'd see the Apocrypha version. This is Taylor at her most ruthless, which fits very nicely with this version of Vlad and his way of rule.
Artoria the Original is when Taylor gave up everything she was as a person prior to that point for the sake of giving humanity a path forward. This is highly similar to what Artoria embodies as King, she discarded her family, her anonymity and her womanhood, in order to give Briton hope for the future.
Artoria (Alter) is after Taylor has experienced all of the loss following multiple Endbringer fights against Tohu and Bohu, where she rules herself with a will of steel. Alter would fit her incredibly well during this period, Taylor still wants to give Humanity a future, but she's been tarnished over her time as Weaver. Taylor is a tyrant more now than ever, she just doesn't show it beyond herself as it hasn't been necessary up to this point in order to save Humanity.
Gilgamesh is simple, he has always been about Humanity and making it better. Even in his most tyrannical moments during Stay Night he would have accomplished it by restarting from scratch if he succeeded during a Stay Night, but it was always about making Humanity advance and move forward. Fighting against a god set on destroying Humanity across countless Worlds and giving everything up to save it would have him answering Taylor when she was Khepri. She was a tyrant who ruled with absolute control over every human, but the goal, the goal is the key here.
I've explained Tamamo before in thread, look at my previous posts to see why she fits Taylor after Gold Morning.
Taylor Pre-Annette's Death: Artoria (Lily)
Taylor Pre-Emma turning on her: Artoria (Lancer)
Taylor Pre-Locker Incident: Boudica
Taylor during the Locker Incident: Medea
Taylor Post-Locker Incident to Pre-Lung Debut: EMIYA
Taylor Post-Lung Debut to Leviathan (Skitter): Jekyll
Taylor Post-Leviathan to surrendering (Warlord Skitter): Vlad III (Extra before taking territory, Apocrypha after taking territory)
Taylor as Weaver Pre-S9000: Artoria (Original/OG)
Taylor as Weaver during S9000 and Gold Morning: Artoria (Alter/Salter)
Taylor as Khepri during Gold Morning: Gilgamesh (Archer)
Taylor Post-GM: Tamamo no Mae
As to why?
Lily would be when Taylor was most innocent, but still yearning to be a great Hero. Lily is just starting her journey to becoming King, she doesn't really know what she just gave up once she drew Caliburn. She's been told what she would give up, but she does not truly know.
Artoria (Lancer) would be after Annette has died, but Taylor still is fairly innocent and hasn't experienced betrayal, she still desires to become a shining beacon of heroism. Can't think of anything more fitting a shining beacon than Rhongomyniad and Artoria as the Perfect King would be very fitting to this Taylor.
Boudica would be when Taylor is most in need of guidance and support, a great Queen who survived the death of her entire family and being assaulted, but still led her people afterwards is an amazing fit, especially considering what we see of her motherly nature in F/GO.
Medea is self explanatory. It's in her title.
EMIYA would be to counteract her rashness and to demonstrate the harsh life of being a Hero, but also capable of supporting her to reaching her goal as long as she thinks things through.
Jekyll would be when Taylor is starting to slip into becoming a truly ruthless person. She also is wearing metaphorical masks around everyone, ones that could shatter at any time to let the uninhibited version of her out.
Vlad is an interesting one, if he was summoned immediately after Leviathan but before Taylor takes over the Undersiders and the territory given to her by Coil we'd likely see him in his Extra version, with the Innocent Monster Skill in full effect. Afterwards, when she's become a true Warlord, is when we'd see the Apocrypha version. This is Taylor at her most ruthless, which fits very nicely with this version of Vlad and his way of rule.
Artoria the Original is when Taylor gave up everything she was as a person prior to that point for the sake of giving humanity a path forward. This is highly similar to what Artoria embodies as King, she discarded her family, her anonymity and her womanhood, in order to give Briton hope for the future.
Artoria (Alter) is after Taylor has experienced all of the loss following multiple Endbringer fights against Tohu and Bohu, where she rules herself with a will of steel. Alter would fit her incredibly well during this period, Taylor still wants to give Humanity a future, but she's been tarnished over her time as Weaver. Taylor is a tyrant more now than ever, she just doesn't show it beyond herself as it hasn't been necessary up to this point in order to save Humanity.
Gilgamesh is simple, he has always been about Humanity and making it better. Even in his most tyrannical moments during Stay Night he would have accomplished it by restarting from scratch if he succeeded during a Stay Night, but it was always about making Humanity advance and move forward. Fighting against a god set on destroying Humanity across countless Worlds and giving everything up to save it would have him answering Taylor when she was Khepri. She was a tyrant who ruled with absolute control over every human, but the goal, the goal is the key here.
I've explained Tamamo before in thread, look at my previous posts to see why she fits Taylor after Gold Morning.
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I suspect that Olga has an idea for why Taylor's summoning failed…
Not that she's going to spoil Taylor's secret.
I wonder if Taylor even knows Olga knows her past…
Since this is post GM taylor, i don't think betrayal will factor much into compatibility, i mean, even by the time just after leviathan she'd moved on from emma and her bullies almost entirely, they just don't compare to the things she's dealing with and are beneath her. Especially now, as far as taylor's concerned emma's a bygone event, past her and to be ignored as unimportant.
Windborne
Devourer of Stories
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- Oregon
I'd disagree, this is a Taylor without the ability to shunt emotions to her swarm anymore. Her betrayal might have seemed inconsequential and not affecting her, but it's influence is there in every action she took as a Cape. Lisa even remarks on it when she calls Taylor out on her never asking for help. I'd argue that she was constantly shunting the pain of that betrayal onto QA and her swarm while she had her powers to the point it was completely subconscious by the time she awoke in the hospital after the Locker. It's why after Gold Morning it could become so prominent a part of her once again that it can influence her enough during a summoning.
And summoning in FGO is out of normal circumstances, so it's fine. As indicated by your ability to summon them in the game.
And yet they both know what it's like to give up everything for a country that in the end doesn't appreciate your sacrifices. If it's Berserker Vlad or at least F/A Vlad, I think they'd get along just fine. Lancer Vlad is a zealot which is more iffy admittedly.
It's really not, we shouldn't Mix Up game play with story. Like just because I can 1v1 the final boss in breath of the wild doesn't mean we should ignore what's possible story wise, you'd need a catalyst specifically for them to summon Counter Guardians like Emiya, TOHSAKA, Okitan, and Asagami as servants.
Also on Taylor and Vlad Berserker those are entirely different circumstances, Taylor did what she did out of necessity, Vlad did it to send a message. Also she didn't do it out of patriotic feelings and she didn't believe in a god she did because she had too, and even then she had firm lines she wouldn't cross if she could avoid them. Their motivation were completely different, Berserker Vlad while different is still very firm in his belief, like I think they'd be able to tolerate each other with a working relationship but personality wise they aren't very compatible.
Eh maybe while she was still in the bay, but by now i don't think it has much effect. Also the shunting of emotions into the swarm is over-exaggerated, it's a partial shunting at best, and it's mostly just emotional reactions. Like, she doesn't become an emotionless machine, she just looks the part, while her insects are showing all the reactions she normally would. The whole alexandria interrogation thing failed cause taylor felt more emotion than she showed, so alexandria miss-read her. Like i can see it in how she might have trouble trusting again, but like, the betrayal is by no means raw and painful at this point, she felt basically nothing when she worked with shadow stalker during GM, and her reaction to emma's death was very weak compared to how it'd have been while she was still skitter. This is a taylor who's moved on i think, grown stronger from the events she experienced, even if she is probably like artoria in that she wants change her past actions.
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You can canonically summon unconventional servants with the FATE summoning system. You literally see in gameplay that we have those servants.
Saying we shouldn't mix up gameplay with story is true, but you're focusing on the wrong thing. Like don't mix up servant star rating or in game effectiveness with how powerful they are in lore. But canonically, as long as it's a servant, the FATE system can summon it (and some things that probably shouldn't be servants but are via loophole).
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I meant a pseudo-servant like Ishtar or Ershkigal, aposed to a demi-servant which is what Mash is. This is a abit of a diffrents, sorry if I was being confusing.
No it can't, for real in story the unconventional servants were never summoned, they don't show up until Singularity Solomon, Mash doesn't even recognize a few of them and others they try to forget. Events are canon but that doesn't mean we can just summon them out of no where, it's even mentioned in Fate/Stay Night that Counter Guardians shouldn't be summonable.
also this is what I meant by mixing gameplay with story, summoning LB Servants shouldn't be possible, summoning Counter Guardians shouldn't be possible, summoning Magical Girls definitely shouldn't be possible, Summoning someone who wasn't even recorded in proper human history without a catalyst should 100% not be possible. None of these characters ever showed up in the main story section, only in events, which you can pick and choose which to ignore. Despite having all your servants in the LB section of the story you really only have Mashu, Da Vinci, Nemo, and Sherlock Holmes and any story servants for each LB. In the LB you get summoned Servants become a lot more involved.
Seriously are you really gonna say Illya, Miyu, Chole, and Shiki are summonable servants that take an active role in the story normally? Because if my Grailed to fucking hell NP5 Shiki Saber was there from the start there wouldn't be any LBs, the crypters would just be dead.
That's 100% possible, it's k btw, I get shit confused too.
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Main quests tend to be strangely arbitrary about what Servants MC brings with him, but it does seem that they have the full array to pick from. Events are canon. Some events, such as CCC are especially canon. And Emiya was explicitly brought into that singularity. As a servant. Now, he got some weird scatter effect that resummoned him as Emiya Alter, but the point is, he is very clearly summonable by FATE.
As for only having servants summoned in singularity? CCC, Salem, LB3 and LB4 really want to talk to you about that.
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Medea could be a good choice for Taylor, and not because of the betrayal angle.
They both can be ruthless and committed in doing what is necessary, but while Taylor is driven in always fighting in the front lines Medea just wants a normal happy life.
It ties in to the "living to fight" and "fighting to live" theme.
They both can be ruthless and committed in doing what is necessary, but while Taylor is driven in always fighting in the front lines Medea just wants a normal happy life.
It ties in to the "living to fight" and "fighting to live" theme.
Windborne
Devourer of Stories
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No there are Canon explanations of why we can summon anyone, how we summon for Battles, and why Events are absolutely Canon. It might not be possible all the time, but pretty much every Heroic Spirit we can summon in the game is absolutely summonable with the FATE system, and Ritsuka does summon their Servants to fight through a very specific means that allows them to die during a battle but not be permanently unsummoned. I believe I've covered the method in much greater detail somewhere earlier in this thread, though it might be in the Essence thread instead. I repeat myself way too much as is, so you'll need to search for it yourself.
As for Gameplay mixing with story trust me FGO is tame and simple compared to other games like FFXIV. That game has an actual lore reason for the freaking matchmaking of the Group Finder game mechanic that explains in detail why your character can do those things and how it works in a way that is 100% Lore Compliant. The Echo is way more complicated than anything FGO pulls off.
Tamamo is just as much applicable as Medea in the ways you mention, and in many other ways would outclass Medea by a long shot in her compatibility with Taylor. So yeah while Medea is a decent compatible Servant, there are better ones. But as I said above I repeat myself way too much as is, go look through the thread for my reasoning why.
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On the topic of unconventional servants and such, an easy hand wave is that Gaia (earth's will) and Alaya (humanity will) are lending a bit of help, allowing for a larger pool of servants from more diverse worlds and history's, as well as allowing then to support so many servants. Might be a lore reason that I don't know of but oh well.
1) No it's not, nobody even remembers CCC, this is why I said you can pick and choose which events to follow because events do not make sense and even if you apply events Servent Emiya isn't normally summonable. He is literally a fan-service for Emiya lovers. Fate/Stay Night literally says word for word that NO counter Guardians are not summonable under normal circumstances. You can IGNORE CCC and it would have zero impact on the main story.
2) I have never said Events aren't canon, just that you can pick and choose which to ignore. Even then they shouldn't be taken seriously, use what you know not what's presented because Events can sometimes follow their own logic.
3) Salem had no irregular Servants, every servant there comes from proper human history. I have never said servants can't be summoned.
3) are you just ignoring the part where I said Summoned servants becoming more involved in the story? Because I'm pretty sure summoned servants were not active participants of the story until remnant.
4) I've never said they can't be summoned, I said they can't be summoned normally without a Catalyst specific to them. I can justify Emiya with them being in Fuyuki, because Gudako did conically make a summoning contract with an unknown servant in a singularity F which is as irregular as it gets. However Counter Guardians can't be summoned normally it's been stated in GudaGuda, and it's been stated in Fate/SN, please give me actual evidence on the contrary, like an in lore reason by da vinci or something.
I too find myself repeating myself regularly, but it is the duty of the informed to correct misconceptions! Otherwise we get a whole lot of fandom merking up what is and isn't true.
Ether way You'll have to find it for me because I am not looking through a whole other thread. Also I'm not contesting that any Heroic Spirits can be summoned, just Counter Guardians and Irregulars without a catalyst. I know that normally heroic Spirits that aren't proper Hero's shouldn't normally be summoned to a Grail War because their restricted. I can believe that you can summon anyone in recorded history through a more powerful ritual like the Chaldea summoning because they are know far and wide regardless of their alignment. But Counter Guardians are unknown, summoning them shouldn't be possible per lore. Same with irregulars like Shiki and illya if you can give me a reason why this is wrong please go ahead but if it's the same he can be summoned because he showed up here I'll probably say the same thing. It's not normally possible without a catalyst.
Windborne
Devourer of Stories
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That is part of the actual reason, it's how there are Rogue Servants. Like Jeanne in Orleans, Boudica in Septem etc. But they are summoned via the Counter Force.
I'm not going to repeat myself or find the information for you since I've already stated the reasons in the locations I already said to look in. And it really is just because they're there and we met them. It truly is that simple, Void Shiki being summonable is only because we met her in the Event, same for Illya. The Welfare's in those events just stuck around. It's also why we get crazy Servants like Liz Brave. I've stated my reasoning, as have others, but don't go saying we're wrong when we have given you plenty of reasoning that you don't want to acknowledge simply because you're too lazy to look for it.
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That's not how the counterforce works, Counter Guardians like Emiya are the Nuke option of a situation. Heroic Spirits are usually sent for a specific purpose, and the ones deployed by the counterforce usually already know their purpose is.
Rouge Servants are caused by the Singularity, they aren't supposed to be there, most of the Servants we meet are Rouge Servants that are only there because everythings gone Fubar.
Windborne
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That's exactly how it works. I'm too tired to argue with you, but there are plenty of examples of the Counter Force working exactly as I say. KnK the actual series, Lostbelt 3 just to name a few.
CCC is part of the main story, because it covers where one of the 4 demon pillars that escaped went. It is also explicitly referred to in Kama's event, which in turn refers directly to LB4 and is connected to it in lore.
Edit: If you can ignore CCC, you can ignore any of the Epic of Remnant. It is no more filler than any of those are.
So I think I've figured out where some of the problem is.
You haven't gotten the memo that more than a couple things from F/SN have been essentially retconned by now, and are insisting that the early version of the lore overrides the later because it came earlier. Counter Guardians don't work exactly as F/SN portrays them at this point, for example.