Remove ads

Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

Reader mode
Raiseth said:
*snip*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think this really explains how EMIYA works here in FGO quite well. I had been wondering where this talk of Taylor being a threat because she can control insectile Phantasmal Beasts that seem to barely have more intelligence than their mundane counterparts came from, its perhaps a notable curiosity and just one more reason for Olga's order to keep Taylor's history and abilities under wraps, but its nothing that EMIYA would respond to beyond being like "huh, that's interesting and unsettling, but otherwise helpful to our mission"
 
An interesting question that popped into my mind after reading the available 7 Lostbelt plot snippets is what will be the relationship between Taylor and Daybit? How does Daybit see Taylor, Queen Administrator, and how does Queenie see him? Will anyone draw any definite parallels between Taylor and Daybit?

After all, they both met an alien mind that changed their view of the world, that they are doing the virtually impossible (through escalation/???), that they are both connected with extremely powerful alien entities, that they both have a fairly high compatibility with Grand Assassins, etc.
 
Stahor said:
I'm under impression that all of Team A, including Taylor, was training together months before rayshift sabotage at story start, so they know each other, if only in professional capacity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is not completely true, because according to the available information, most of the A-team was assembled long before the arrival of Taylor, because of which they know each other a little better + have Sirius Light.

Further, it seems like, according to James, Taylor interacted with the team for 1-1.5 years before the events of part 1 took place, but not very actively(there seemed to be a moment that Taylor accidentally organized a silent literature club with Mash and Akuta), which I attribute to the fact that a) At that time, not even completely Avalon came out and b) Team A, in addition to Mash, does not really affect the plot of part 1, and therefore it is better to reduce their influence on plot, so as not to simply fry your brains of a metaphorical 2-year-old backstory.

In general, I operate more on the following statement about Daybit: "He views things from a "cosmic perspective" rather than a human one."
And based on that statement, I'm wondering if Daybit sees something in Taylor or not.

Well, and the chance that the members of team A will compare them is quite high, because they are both Americans with a mysterious past and an amazing ability to create impossible situations or get out of them.
 
Last edited:
Well, I think the important part is less "Taylor sharing her past with others" and more Taylor bonding more with the people she fights with, works with, and relies on for both her character's sake and for the sake of the story.

As an example, currently there are only three people who have seen Taylor vulnerable or struggling: Da Vinci, Marie, and Romani. Of those, Romani is a big worrier for everyone (thus making his showing of concern either unremarkable to everyone else or frequently written off by Taylor herself because he expresses that worry in ways that are practically irrelevant or just plain missing-the-mark for Taylor as a person), Da Vinci has way too much on her plate as is to delve into that, and Marie is in such awful shape herself (as well as thinking incredibly highly of Taylor) that Taylor basically refuses to show any weakness in her presence.

All three are also never present in any singularities, and Marie has only recently come back into play, so to speak. While Taylor being a pillar of resolve and fortitude in the face of horror and impossible odds is entirely fitting for her character, the way in which Taylor doesn't show any real noteworthy or concerning trouble with the times when things are more relaxed and there isn't anything significant she can distract herself with feels like a missed opportunity.

If anything should be rearing its head (in terms of Taylor's psychological vulnerabilities/hangups), it's Taylor feeling increasingly frustrated with being essentially sidelined in any kind of combat scenario. Given how few the number of Servants Chaldea deploys and commands in battle, coupled with the fact that she can only telepathically communicate with the ones that she has or shares a contract with (which, sadly, doesn't currently include EMIYA and never includes CF-summoned Servants that haven't formed a contract with Chaldea), there is often not much for Taylor to do even indirectly in combat/battle. This should be beyond jarring to her, and so frustrating that it should be clearly visible to others in a lot of situations.

As a result, Taylor feels like she is both lacking agency and purpose. Not to a massive degree, but to enough of a degree that it feels jarring to be describing Taylor this way. We don't even get to see her showing her skill/experience with command and control/coordination because the number of friendly and enemy Servants in any given battle is usually too few for her to give more than a handful of commands when the fighting starts.
 
Raiseth said:
Emiya is Rin's compatibility summon, lol, since he's a massive tsundere.

Leaving that aside, I have two points to make.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, I do sort of agree with your points but I think you are basing your points only on a certain POV. It could be said that Rin and EMIYA are compatibility summons but it could also be said that jewel that Rin and EMIYA had was enough for Rin to specifically summon him. It can also be said that having EMIYA get summoned by Rin is an action of the Counter Force, to try and prevent the grail from killing off all humanity.

So, yeah, there are a lot of ways to view Rin summoning EMIYA in FSN. Just not the one single point of view of it being a compatibility summon based on personality.

Raiseth said:
Taylor demonstrates ability to control Phantasmal Beasts? How terrifying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Finally, I can understand why you think people are making a very big deal out of this. But, Taylor (and the others) are all from the modern world. And a mage (of any skill) being able to gain absolute control over a phantasmal creature? That is a very big red flag.

Taylor doesn't advertise that she comes from a well known magus lineage but she is already controlling the millions of insects and that is some rather high level magecraft. But that at least fits within the possibility of modern magecraft. But then she goes off and controls a phantasmal beast? Absolute and complete control?

Phantasmal creatures left because there isn't enough magic left (one reason). So Taylor gaining absolute complete control over a phantasmal creature is incredibly suspicious. There aren't a lot of reasons why a modern day magus can control a phantasmal beast that doesn't go into suspicious territory.

But yeah, it doesn't mean that he'll immediately start killing Taylor. But to ignore that he won't be keeping an eye on Taylor and won't intervene is a bit optimistic. He'll definitely keep an eye on her and if necessary he will act but we as the readers know that there isn't anything for him to act on.
 
Last edited:
CCMax said:
I mean, I do sort of agree with your points but I think you are basing your points only on a certain POV. It could be said that Rin and EMIYA are compatibility summons but it could also be said that jewel that Rin and EMIYA had was enough for Rin to specifically summon him. It can also be said that having EMIYA get summoned by Rin is an action of the Counter Force, to try and prevent the grail from killing off all humanity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That line about Emiya being Rin's compatibility summon was a joke, hence 'lol'.
 
CCMax said:
There aren't a lot of reasons why a modern day magus can control a phantasmal beast that doesn't go into suspicious territory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To be fair, there aren't a lot of modern day magus families that we know of that don't go hard into suspicious territory. Remember that the goal of almost literally every modern family is to reach the Root and get themselves some of that nice True Magic, and some families are closer than others.

Honestly, Taylor's bug control in general should be the biggest flag for Emiya right from the start, because it looks like she might be from a Matou branch family, and there is just a whole lot of terrible baggage he can lay at the feet of that old man.

The easy, in universe explanation, is that whatever her family was doing by focusing it's everything on insects was more successful than most people would have had a chance to realize and they got closer to True Magic than expected. Remember that Emiya knows about the True Magics, and should have some level of personal experience with the Second and Third. Her having a special and unique Magecraft that lets her include phantasmals in her domain doesn't first mean "suspicion of being a threat to all mankind," but "her family might be in the running for Sixth."
 
zadcap said:
The easy, in universe explanation, is that whatever her family was doing by focusing it's everything on insects was more successful than most people would have had a chance to realize and they got closer to True Magic than expected. Remember that Emiya knows about the True Magics, and should have some level of personal experience with the Second and Third. Her having a special and unique Magecraft that lets her include phantasmals in her domain doesn't first mean "suspicion of being a threat to all mankind," but "her family might be in the running for Sixth."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Honestly my thoughts are the opposite. Not something like "she's a threat to mankind" but more of "Huh, I wonder what her magecraft is like. But I probably wouldn't get the explanation even if she told me about her Mysteries." Because it's worth pointing out that Emiya Shirou, both the boy and the Counter Guardian, has a canonically very skewed understanding of what common Magecraft is like. As opposed to the usual hypercompetent versions you see of him in fanfics, even as an adult, Emiya Shirou never really got an in-depth study of what Magecraft is like, only what he learned from Kiritsugu's terrible teachings and from Rin's tutoring later in life. And he was never really Waver's student, more like student-adjacent.

He can't really grasp the true extent of how weird Taylor's ability to control entire swarms of insects because unlike Lord El Melloi the 2nd, he just doesn't have the academic and magical background to. Sure, he has experience with what Servants can normally do with Unlimited Blade Works, but not what Magi can normally do if you get my gist. He's aware that Taylor's power is weird, but cannot appreciate just how weird.
zadcap said:
To be fair, there aren't a lot of modern day magus families that we know of that don't go hard into suspicious territory. Remember that the goal of almost literally every modern family is to reach the Root and get themselves some of that nice True Magic, and some families are closer than others.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also, to be fair, what we know of Magus families is generally skewed towards the suspicious sorts as well. I know it's a stereotype that Nasuverse Magi are all backstabbing monsters that would sacrifice their children if that got them to the Root, but we actually do have examples of Magi in multiple works that would find that kind of thing abhorrent. I mean, it was mostly because of Toole's efforts, but Goredolf's family is very moralistic for example.

The thing is, nice Magi families like that don't really get story attention because, well, if they're doing nothing bad then the protagonists of the various works won't have to step in and fix their messes. I'm sure that there's plenty of Magecraft users just quietly improving on their family craft and doing nothing bad all around.
 
Last edited:
I always love it when people say that EMIYA distrusts Taylor for being an anomaly, when he's the guy who uses his soul to duplicate a Rank A++ NP created by bloody Fairies like Excalibur.
 
KuroHGC said:
I always love it when people say that EMIYA distrusts Taylor for being an anomaly, when he's the guy who uses his soul to duplicate a Rank A++ NP created by bloody Fairies like Excalibur.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He can't create Excalibur though? Caliburn, yes, and his relationship with Avalon lets him recreate the scabbard, but Excalibur itself is impossible for him to create. The closest thing 'he' made was Excalibur Image, but that was Nameless from Fate/Extra who did that, and it was the Moon Cell that enabled it.

It's true though that EMIYA has no issue with anomalies however. Especially in his FGO incarnation where he's basically so mellowed out he's pretty much just an older Shirou. Outside the Fuyuki Grail War and Alaya's influence, combined with the fact that he's undeniably fighting for the sake of humanity, basically renders him so much less cynical that he straight up canonically becomes one of the Mom Servants in Chaldea. And we can already see that so far in this fic.
 
Last edited:
CCMax said:
Honestly, having Taylor able to gain complete control over a phantasmal creature is a very clear issue. It needs to be resolved somehow because a normal person can't just simply gain absolute control over a phantasmal creature. Sure, Chaldea might be in a rather unique situation but this is a bit beyond. Some type of an explanation is needed, unless Taylor is hoping that the Twins will fail to note this in their after action report.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"The explanation is as it has been; I control arthropods. The giant magical crab was still a crab, and didn't have any special characteristics to prevent me from controlling it, therefore I can control it. I know most of you aren't Casters, but you're still Servants or mages to some degree. You should understand this; it's Conceptual Effects 101."
 
Formerly said:
"The explanation is as it has been; I control arthropods. The giant magical crab was still a crab, and didn't have any special characteristics to prevent me from controlling it, therefore I can control it. I know most of you aren't Casters, but you're still Servants or mages to some degree. You should understand this; it's Conceptual Effects 101."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Phantasmal beats aren't beasts. They're 'something mysterious in the shape of a beast'. Taylor having access to an effect that works that well conceptually, instead of an effect that controls based on biology, is pretty odd, and worthy of note. However, I agree that it isn't something worth pressing, given the current situation.

However, some people don't care about whether it's worth pressing or not. People like Da Vinci and Waver seek understanding. While Emiya might not press, I bet they will.
 
Young Pyromancer said:
However, some people don't care about whether it's worth pressing or not. People like Da Vinci and Waver seek understanding. While Emiya might not press, I bet they will.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think Waver cares that much actually even if he does comment or ask about it (he's more of the "this is bullshit and I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist for my peace of mind") and Da Vinci will likely not press Taylor too hard about it if she refuses to talk (as shown with the whole "I have a weird thing in my head" that was already established; after it was shown to not have a negative impact on Rayshifting or Taylor's health, she mostly dropped the issue).
 
Yeah, Waver is probably going to be all up in Taylor's bullshit.

Poor Waver, what he doesn't understand is Taylor doesn't know how, QA doesn't care why, and both don't really give a fuck in general.

Just imagine the look on his face if he realizes the original application of this ability is meant to direct billions of beings the size of continents/small moons.

Hot Pops is outta luck though, to get to Taylor he has to go through his greatest nemesis: a violently tsundere teenager.

To clarify: he's certainly curious, and he would try a lot of things to examine Taylor with her consent, but without receiving it he won't do anything. 'Moral' and 'Magus' happen to play equal parts in his motivations. Just a very inquisitive scientist as opposed to typical Magus Mengeles and Lyesenkos.
 
Last edited:
Young Pyromancer said:
Phantasmal beats aren't beasts. They're 'something mysterious in the shape of a beast'. Taylor having access to an effect that works that well conceptually, instead of an effect that controls based on biology, is pretty odd, and worthy of note. However, I agree that it isn't something worth pressing, given the current situation.

However, some people don't care about whether it's worth pressing or not. People like Da Vinci and Waver seek understanding. While Emiya might not press, I bet they will.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Does it have the "Crab" trait? Yep. Then it's a crab. Imma make it scuttle. -Bullshit Alien God-Thing Fragment.
 
Young Pyromancer said:
However, some people don't care about whether it's worth pressing or not. People like Da Vinci and Waver seek understanding. While Emiya might not press, I bet they will.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It runs back in to the same issue, they can press, but they're pressing on Taylor and that tends to just not work. Only one person in their whole organization could force Taylor to talk if she doesn't want to, and she's very much on Taylor's side in any theoretical confrontation.
 
Now that I think about, Emyia already analyzed Last Resort with his Structural Analisys, isn't it automatic? He should have caught a lot of her history from that, especially after being 'mythologized' by Shakespeare.
 
ic3shard13 said:
Now that I think about, Emyia already analyzed Last Resort with his Structural Analisys, isn't it automatic? He should have caught a lot of her history from that, especially after being 'mythologized' by Shakespeare.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Can Emiya trace Last Resort? While it may be a knife, he has trouble tracing complex mechanisms.
 
Speaking of Last Resort, I'm starting to wonder if being converted into a Noble Phantasm messed with the nanothorns somehow. It seems to just be used like an ordinary knife now, without that whole cloud of microscopic razors around the blade that turn anything they touch into a pile of fine dust.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top