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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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You might think that the chapter was a little rough somehow, based on the AN, but I think it flowed rather well.

Always looking forward to more.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Shirou knew the flaws in Kiritsugu's ideals from the beginning, it's just that the knowledge faded and it's only in UBW that he reaffirms, "Yeah, I knew that from the beginning, and I'm still going to hold onto them!" Emiya, however, is from something resembling Fate route, so he had to get it thrown in his face by the world instead of his jaded future self.

Did he know what Kiritsugu did before retiring to sabotage his son's magecraft training? That part, I'm less clear on. I want to say no, because Saber comments on how different the Kiritsugu she knew is from the one Shirou knew.

Fair. This chapter mostly exists because I knew Romani needed to get caught up and I wanted to put more space between the team coming back and Olga getting rezzed.
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I did like the bit where Taylor stepped on the Twins' idealism and they countered by finding a way to make it work, only for Taylor to grind her boot in it with a reminder that when they had a chance to they didn't. Then EMIYA coming out to the rescue because A; "mealtime is happy time don't you dare ruin my happy time," and B; he's a giant tsundere for idealistic heroes.
 
Stahor said:
I forget, did Emiya learned what actual ideas Kiritsugu had, not what he think he had, as a child? Because it's possible that EMIYA can get some Kiritsugu vibes from Taylor.
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Nah, that was Miyuverse Shirou. Regular Shirou from the Fate series actually had very little awareness of who Emiya Kiritsugu really was, aside from the fact that Kiritsugu had some really sketchy connections (his large home in addition to his connections with the Fujiwara family, the local yakuza and Taiga's family). As far as Shirou knew, Kiritsugu was a former magic hero before some form of curse or disease forced him to retire, and Kiritsugu had been happier to keep Shirou as far away from that part of his past as much as possible. In contrast, Miyuverse Shirou had been picked up by Kiritsugu when he was still active and Miyuverse Kiritsugu raised him as much as he trained him to be another Maiya.

The only time Fate Shirou even came close to finding out about Kiritsugu's past was when Ilya and Kotomine confronted him for the first time, but even then I suppose Ilya decided leaving him in the dark was kinder once she decided to not kill him, while Kotomine found the irony to be so beyond amusing to actually tell Shirou anything that he would believe.

Of course EMIYA would've found out about Kiritsugu's past at some point in his career. He did kind of end up going the same path after all anyway.
 
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Blaflaix said:
"Da Vinci has a theory. Something about 'fanservice.' I decided I didn't want to know more."
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Honestly Fate has gotten so bad about the gender switches that at some point, no logic would be able to explain any of it anymore. Not logic that makes sense anyway.
Stahor said:
It be.. ironic if Waver would tell EMIYa about his dad.
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It's extremely unlikely that EMIYA doesn't know at this point. After all, in his timeline he had to have already met a Lord El Melloi II who would've told him all about it.
 
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Stahor said:
I forget, did Emiya learned what actual ideas Kiritsugu had, not what he think he had, as a child? Because it's possible that EMIYA can get some Kiritsugu vibes from Taylor.
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It depends on the Route.

Archer Emiya only ever focused on what he did and the inevitability thst Shirou would choose the same.

In Heaven's Feel, Kirei and Saber outright tell him what Kiritsugu was.
 
Honestly I think I like the downtime in Chaldea chapters better than the exploring adventures in Singularities. Part of that is lack of experience with the source material, but certainly some of it is the pacing allows for more thoughtful discussions.
 
Blaflaix said:
"Da Vinci has a theory. Something about 'fanservice.' I decided I didn't want to know more."
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Sasuga Da Vinci-chan, breaking the Fourth Wall casually like the Universal Man Woman he she is!
readerdreamer said:
Honestly Fate has gotten so bad about the gender switches that at some point, no logic would be able to explain any of it anymore. Not logic that makes sense anyway.
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At least for Musashi they justified it by saying she's of an alternative timeline. Just embrace the madness and the fan service. I for one am very happy with Bunny Ruler.
 
readerdreamer said:
There was one I believe. The EMIYA timeline just had the Archer be the first eliminated in the War because for some reason, that timeline's Emiya Shirou either failed to stop Saber in time from killing the Archer or just didn't stop her.
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Pretty sure the answer from Nasu would boil down to something like "since the Throne of Heroes exists outside time, the Archer summoned for the HGW that led specifically to Shirou becoming EMIYA was in fact still EMIYA."
 
I don't know if this has been answered yet, or not. But, could taylor call upon her own legend without actually summoning herself? Because fate magic is the fuckity by my observations and I'm curious about the authors fiat.
 
IIRC, Archer was always EMIYA because the timeline worked in a sorta grandfather paradox. EMIYA became a Counter Guardian and ascended to the Throne; and because the Throne is outside the time axis, he would always be a Counter Guardian. Thus, he was the Archer for his own Grail War because he always was a CG capable of being summoned as an Archer.

The only thing we know about EMIYA's Grail War is that it was eerily similar to the Fate Route but he didn't save Saber's heart, but it doesn't say that it was a different Archer Servant. If anything, the first Servant dying would still be Medusa at Homurahara.

Also:

EMIYA: You can't just Seigi no Mikata them before they had breakfast baka!

Taylor: Alright, but only because my Inner Lisa is gonna tease the everliving shit out of you in the near future.

EMIYA internally: shit did I come across another Rin already?! Curse you E-rank Luck!
 
Re: The unknown, hypothetical (i.e. no canon evidence) Archer of EMIYA's Grail War

I've recently entertained the notion of Arash Kamangir being Rin's Archer of that HGW (unintentionally* pushing young!EMIYA along the path of what he thought seigi no mikata meant before, well... everything).

* - Because if memory serves, personality-wise Arash is pretty much the modern-day ideal superhero (as opposed to the 90's Anti-Hero), but in the Age of Gods.

EDIT: That ignores that Arash apparently has no wish to be granted by the Holy Grail, so I guess... ignore the above?
 
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TimeDiver said:
Waver Velvet who informed EMIYA of Kiritsugu's history (what the Clock Tower knew of it, at any rate), back in his own timeline?
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My original post that EMIYA learns from El Melloi II in Chaldea, but i was informed that Emiya Shiro met Lord El Melloi II before becoming counter-guardian, so he had opportunity to learn before making contract with Alaya.
 
johnwedd said:
I don't know if this has been answered yet, or not. But, could taylor call upon her own legend without actually summoning herself? Because fate magic is the fuckity by my observations and I'm curious about the authors fiat.
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There's been some strong hints that Taylor's first failed summoning actually called Heroic Spirit Taylor who bonded with living Taylor to form a demi-servant, and that's why her bug control came back.
 
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Taarkoth said:
There's been some strong hints that Taylor's first failed summoning actually called Heroic Spirit Taylor who bonded with living Taylor to form a demi-servant, and that's why her bug control came back.
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Pretty sure it was all-but-implied:

James D. Fawkes said:
She laid the blade across her hands, looking down at it. "I think now… This must be my own Heroic Spirit, aiding me in my time of need."
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James D. Fawkes said:
"It's…not impossible," Da Vinci hedged. "Heroic Spirits can be summoned into a time period technically before their own legend occurs. Tiberius, for example, or either Constantine. It may be that the summoning didn't happen properly because Nero is already alive, so whatever fraction of her Saint Graph made it there instead found Nero as a host."
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Seeing how she's disoriented only in the Singularities or in other situations that have some form of Human Order Foundation (not Chaldea because technically the area around it is Incinerated) as well as the Sidestory for Fleeting Lunar Phantasia mentioning that a weakened Human Order results in her own powers being likewise weakened, it's pretty much confirmed.
 
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