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Harry Potter and the Skittering Spouse

Reader mode
*Reads first chapter.
Stops
What the hell?
I'm not sure this is the weirdest thing I've read ever but it is pretty weird generally. Should I keep going?
 
Ace Dreamer said:
Personally, I might doubt JKR's skills with being subtle would be enough to imply this... If the story of the three artifacts of Death is correct, then that implies an avatar of Death, in some form. While the idea that it's some sort of Outsider (Cthulhu Mythos or more subtle) playing such an avatar might suit some, again that's not logic which seems to suit the Potter-verse. It would seem to leave things 'open' in an unfortunate way.
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Excuse me, the moral of the Tales of Beetle the Bard is actually as follows:

> "The moral of The Fountain of Fair Fortune is that the magic was within you all along. The moral of The Warlock's Hairy Heart is that you shouldn't care what anyone else thinks of you. And the moral of The Tale of the Three Brothers is that you should be invisible at all times."

> Hermione frowned at me, as she often does. "That isn't the moral at all. It's that you can't cheat death."

> "Really, Hermione? Did you even read the tale? It clearly states that the youngest brother spends his entire life under an invisibility cloak, only taking it off when he wanted to die. I'm not sure why he would have wanted that, though," I mused, pulling my cloak tightly around my shoulders.

Source

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Barghest Blue said:
It should be noted that categories such as 'Alive' and 'Dead' could be entirely a thing her Shard decided as limitations using what Amy thought would fit in them as definitions.

The same way QA uses Taylor to define 'Bug' such that it includes spiders and crabs, but not dust mites and other microscopic insects and stuff..

It is entirely possible that it is just an arbitrary limitation imposed based on the thought patterns of the host, and as such might not necessarily have any actual scientific basis.
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This is the canon explanation. Shards don't want humans to accidentally entire cities without working for it, that would kill off their test subjects too easily and might be too power intensive. Therefore they give arbitrary limits on powers that don't exist for the shards themselves, like how QA doesn't really have a range limit smaller than the solar system, but Skitter is limited to a few blocks etc.

Barghest Blue said:
according to some of Wildblows wog, this is what happened.
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That was a joke about people being lucky the Entities didn't find the Pact universe, where souls are a thing you can eat/sacrifice/mutilate etc. His official stance on souls in the canon Worm-verse is that he wasn't thinking of them when writing and so whether or not they exist is irrelevant.
 
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Tactic said:
*Reads first chapter.
Stops
What the hell?
I'm not sure this is the weirdest thing I've read ever but it is pretty weird generally. Should I keep going?
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Do you like memetic skitter? Are you interested in reading a deconstruction of the whole Vegas wedding fanfic concept and how messed up it'd be if treated seriously? I forget if it's evident in the first chapter but Taylor finds her way into the plot a little ways before Half-Blood Prince, they meet Slughorn with Dumbledore, etc.
 
Fencer, I wasn't quite precise in my phrasing. I was referring to the situation where WoG says something that their own already published work says is different. In my opinion, if JKR states ... hmm, let's say that she says that Faye Dunbar is a Slytherin in one of her WoG posts, yet the canonical books show that she's a Gryffindor (I don't even remember if she's ever actually named or if it's one of those things from notes, but assume she's mentioned in the books for this example), then you listen to the books rather than JKR, because Dunbar can only be one or the other. One of us can write a story where resorting is allowed to explain Slytherin Dunbar, but as far as I'm aware, that is not a thing in canon.

That's what I meant about WoG versus the books. (And with Harry Potter, you have to also specify whether it's book canon or movie canon, because they DO differ in places, like with Apparation. It just is in the books, but it causes a moving smoke that tells you which side the person moving is if you're fighting Light versus Dark. (Take a good look in the movie where they first really used that skill - all the Death Eaters turned to black smoke, but the good guys were white smoke.))
 
Kinsfire said:
That's what I meant about WoG versus the books. (And with Harry Potter, you have to also specify whether it's book canon or movie canon, because they DO differ in places, like with Apparation. It just is in the books, but it causes a moving smoke that tells you which side the person moving is if you're fighting Light versus Dark. (Take a good look in the movie where they first really used that skill - all the Death Eaters turned to black smoke, but the good guys were white smoke.))
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I'm not sure that was apparition. Because we also see others apparate, on both sides, and it looks like they're being twisted inside themselves into an infinitely small point, which actually matches the book's description of it. What we saw in the Battle in the Department of Mysteries was not apparition, but more like a method of flying without a broom.
 
Ace Dreamer said:
Of course not! It's obviously 'two-factor authentication', you need the key and a goblin.

Whether the goblin has to be a particular one, or has to say something mentally, or has a (hidden) talisman, is an innteresting question. Does the goblin need to be conscious? Alive? Could Tonks become a goblin for this purpose? Otherwise, just the key and a random goblin would do?

The goblins are smart for keeping the details unclear... Would using Legilimency help?
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SlickRCBD said:
Uh, whenever I've visited a safe deposit box, this is exactly how things work. There are two keys, one held by the bank, one held by me. I hand my key over to the banker and walk with them to the vault. They use both keys to open up the compartment and take the box over to a small room, and put the box on the table, then leave me to open the box and do my business. Occasionally they will hand me the box and escort me to the room.
When I'm done, I bring the box to them and hand it over, they put it back and hand me the key.
Harris bank works this way, and Bank One did before Chase bought them out. I'm pretty sure Chase works that way too.
First Illinois Bank (or was it First Bank of Illinois? I can't recall as they were acquired/merged by Bank One 30 years ago) did as well before Bank One bought them out, but that was back when my mother would take me with her to visit the safe deposit box, but it goes to show nothing has changed in 40 years about safe deposit boxes.
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That's the thing: When Harry and co rob the Lestrange Vault, Bogrod doesn't use the key to open the vault.

If you read the scene in the book, the key only comes up for initial ID purposes, when they get down to the vault Griphook tells Harry to have Bogrod put his hand on the vault and it just opens. Bogrod does not have the key, Hermione does, and she never does anything with it outside of showing it to a goblin in the entrance hall to prove that she is definitely the real Bellatrix and not Hermione pretending to be Bellatrix. She then gets handed the key back and it is never mentioned ever again.

Its not 'two factor authentication' or any other two keys methods, the keys given to wizards do absolutely nothing, vaults are opened by a goblin putting their hand on the vault door. That's it. The goblins can open any vault at any time whenever they want.
 
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Neruz said:
Bogrod does not have the key, Hermione does, and she never does anything with it outside of showing it to a goblin in the entrance hall to prove that she is definitely the real Bellatrix and not Hermione pretending to be Bellatrix. She then gets handed the key back and it is never mentioned ever again.

Its not 'two factor authentication' or any other two keys methods, the keys given to wizards do absolutely nothing, vaults are opened by a goblin putting their hand on the vault door. That's it. The goblins can open any vault at any time whenever they want.
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Sorry, but, the key is there (in Hermione's possession) when the vault is opened. We're talking magic, here. Arguably, to open a lock you need the key, but, turning it in the (nonexistent?) lock? No. It might be the symbol of control over a locked place.

You are assuming what you physically see is all that is going on. That's an easy enough mistake to make around magic, with no fancy visible special effects... Compared to the magicals, the goblins seem a much more practical people. A MoM approved vault lock? Would likely need waving the key around, a loud ritual, and the presence of whoever was the assigned vault keeper. Who'd probably need to voluntarily contribute a drop of blood, to make things work.

I might be wrong, of course...

Maybe the goblins can open any vault, any time, they want to. But, that would be mundane, not magical logic.

As always, YMMV.
 
sunsunsunsunsun said:
And you're assuming that elements that are neither shown nor mentioned are somehow critical. By Hanlon's Razor Neruz's point requires way fewer leaps of logic than yours.
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Sometime the author expects you to do some of the 'lifting' yourself? Context. Magical world. Author states/strongly implies key required. But, past a certain point, (most) readers don't care. And, expectations of a 'hidden' magical world described with a 'light touch'...

There's an example of 'How to write a bad science fiction short story', from the 1960s/1970s (might have been earlier?). The young lover bounds up the steps to the front door of their beloved's house. Reaches out, presses the doorbell. And, the story then launches into a detailed description of the design and function of the doorbell.

There's also the 'shortest science fiction story'. "He was the last one alive, on the Earth. Suddenly, the doorbell rang." Yes, I know, it could also be a ghost/horror story...

TL;DR - You can logic-chop as fine as you like, but, 'Does the story work?'.
 
Ace Dreamer said:
You can logic-chop as fine as you like, but, 'Does the story work?'.
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That was John Scalzi's comment about whether or not "The Force Awakens" was a good movie. Were there plot holes out the wazoo? Yes. Was the experience enjoyable WHILE WATCHING IT? If the answer to that question was yes, then it was a good movie. I watched it and walked out saying "THAT was Star Wars." Thought about the plot holes later, but while I was in the theater watching? I was lost in the film. Which meant that it did exactly what it was supposed to - keep me entertained.
 
Kinsfire said:
That was John Scalzi's comment about whether or not "The Force Awakens" was a good movie. Were there plot holes out the wazoo? Yes. Was the experience enjoyable WHILE WATCHING IT? If the answer to that question was yes, then it was a good movie. I watched it and walked out saying "THAT was Star Wars." Thought about the plot holes later, but while I was in the theater watching? I was lost in the film. Which meant that it did exactly what it was supposed to - keep me entertained.
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Yup. This is also (maybe) a good example of a reductionist approach compared to a contextualised (systems?) one.

TerryP poked this with his Auditors (in an over-the-top way, of course!), where they take a painting apart, into carefully sorted pigments, then claim 'beauty' doesn't exist because there's no pile with it in. (I also liked the 'suicide by chocolate', but, I'm strange like that. :) )
 
Personally I think the Goblins just lying about the keys being important and secretly having the ability to open any vault they want sounds entirely in-character for them and their usual attitude towards wizarding society.
 
Neruz said:
Personally I think the Goblins just lying about the keys being important and secretly having the ability to open any vault they want sounds entirely in-character for them and their usual attitude towards wizarding society.
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Personally, I'd think it would be more interesting if all the vaults can be accessed by a secret set of tunnels, and 'maintenance doors'. And, that so security isn't unduly risked, only senior, trusted, goblins know about this set-up.

Want to go weirder? Said access is ancient, but the goblins have lost knowledge of it, due to deaths in the Goblin Wars. 'There's historical reasons for that' can be one of the most fun way to build-up layers in world-building. No one character is likely to know all the history, about all the people's and places, of the world. So, making friends with 'retired wizarding folk', while finding the 'spin they put on the past' - really worthwhile.

I wonder what secrets of Hogwarts could be learned by talking to ghosts, or paintings? I know that's been used in some fanfic, and the 'Black Library' has been done to death, but things such as hidden-away (white sheep of the Black) family paintings in 12 Grimmauld Place could be a fun thing for Taylor to find...
 
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I like the idea of Kreacher stashing all the "disgraceful" portraits in a closet somewhere.

Taylor comes across them when she sends the swarm surveying, and picks up screaming and realizes it's a bunch of portraits freaking out about the bugs.
 
Stick97 said:
I like the idea of Kreacher stashing all the "disgraceful" portraits in a closet somewhere.

Taylor comes across them when she sends the swarm surveying, and picks up screaming and realizes it's a bunch of portraits freaking out about the bugs.
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If wanting to have 'fun' you could have Kreacher influenced by the 'Spirit of Black House', which is composed of all the strongest beliefs of the Black Family, from over the centuries...

I occasionally thought that JKR missed an idea by not having such spirits, and things like the 'hearth stone' be the core of magical families... Rituals like burning the umbilical cord in the family hearth... Burning a ritual equivalent for those joining the family... Makes life difficult if you want to disown someone, though, as I doubt there's magic for 'unburning'...

Would make the logic of the Floo Network rather more interesting, wouldn't it? :)
 
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Ace Dreamer said:
If wanting to have 'fun' you could have Kreacher influenced by the 'Spirit of Black House', which is composed of all the strongest beliefs of the Black Family, from over the centuries...

I occasionally thought that JKR missed an idea by not having such spirits, and things like the 'hearth stone' be the core of magical families... Rituals like burning the umbilical cord in the family hearth... Burning a ritual equivalent for those joining the family... Makes life difficult if you want to disown someone, though, as I doubt there's magic for 'unburning'...

Would make the logic of the Floo Network rather more interesting, wouldn't it? :)
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A key repeating theme throughout Harry Potter is that the muggle myths are very distorted, if not outright wrong, so that's probably why you see very little 'direct translation' of mythology like that. (There are exceptions of course, like Werewolves.)


It's also not impossible that Reparo would work on ashes, given it demonstrably works on ancient bridges that likely collapsed centuries ago.
 
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Neruz said:
A key repeating theme throughout Harry Potter is that the muggle myths are very distorted, if not outright wrong, so that's probably why you see very little 'direct translation' of mythology like that. (There are exceptions of course, like Werewolves.)
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A classic theme in harry potter is that no, actually, pretty much every muggle reference to something like a magical creature or a magic way of doing things is absolutely spot on. Legillimency totally isn't just mind reading... oh wait no, it is, that was just bullshit. Dragons are just dragons, flying broomsticks are just flying broomsticks. You're ascribing credit to something that was not implemented.
 
sunsunsunsunsun said:
A classic theme in harry potter is that no, actually, pretty much every muggle reference to something like a magical creature or a magic way of doing things is absolutely spot on. Legillimency totally isn't just mind reading... oh wait no, it is, that was just bullshit. Dragons are just dragons, flying broomsticks are just flying broomsticks. You're ascribing credit to something that was not implemented.
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The muggle references are usually to something that does actually happen, but they're almost never entirely accurate: Yes magicals use broomsticks to fly, no it is not a uniquely witch thing and they have seats and handlebars and stuff instead of just being an otherwise normal broomstick. Dragons are real but do not kidnap princesses or gather hoards of gold and valuables, eastern dragons do not live in rivers and seas, cannot control water and do not look like wingless horned snakes with legs that step on clouds instead of flying. Legilimency can indeed be used to read minds, but it can also be used for far more than that, such as using it to communicate over distances and even actively drive a person mad: Calling Legilimency 'mind reading' is like calling a hammer 'a tool for hitting nails into wood'; yes it is absolutely used for that, but that is far from the only thing it can be used for.

So generally in the Potterverse you can assume that the myths definitely refer to something on the magical side, but the details are almost never entirely accurate.
 
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Neruz said:
such as using it to communicate over distances and even actively drive a person mad: Calling Legilimency 'mind reading' is like calling a hammer 'a tool for hitting nails into wood'; yes it is absolutely used for that, but that is far from the only thing it can be used for.
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The "communicating over distances" part is a factor of having someone else's soul stuck inside you, not Mind Reading.
 
sunsunsunsunsun said:
The "communicating over distances" part is a factor of having someone else's soul stuck inside you, not Mind Reading.
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Not necessarily; Jacob was able to use Legilimency to send visions to his brother in Hogwarts Mystery. It does appear to require some kind of connection to use Legilimency over distances without eye contact, which Voldemort's soul fragment provides, but it's not soul fragment exclusive. Queenie was also able to passively use Legilimency in an area around her without making eye contact, proving that it is indeed not necessary.

Voldemort also explicitly uses Legilimency to send Harry those visions; the soul fragment provides the connection, but it is Voldemort's use of Legilimency that is the actual cause of the visions, which is why Harry never got any visions before Voldemort discovered the connection.
 
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