Harry Potter and the Skittering Spouse

An easy out for Dumbledore on that conversation would have been to state that Draco being a known quantity, they could minimize any damage he may have done, and now there may be another who is unknown and all the more dangerous.

It would be a lie, but it would have allowed Dumbledore room to maneuver in that conversation.

Instead, he doubled down on the 'I know better than everyone'. He is obviously not accustomed to being told no or that he may be wrong.
 
Yes, because if nothing else Dumdum is a very good politician.


….say what? He couldn't convict death eaters, despite having tattoos identifying them as such, after the first war, with the only exception those literally standing over their victims and admitting their crimes. And an innocent man.

He can't keep the ministry from repeatedly helping Voldemort/blood purists, and he can't stop himself getting removed multiple times for stupid reasons. He's a terrible politician coasting by on respect
 
Dd would be fine if he was just powerful, but he also presented as wise and all-knowing.
To a child.

Remember; Harry Potter is written from Harry's PoV, not from Third Person Omniscient. Just because someone says something is true to Harry does not mean it is actually true.

….say what? He couldn't convict death eaters, despite having tattoos identifying them as such, after the first war, with the only exception those literally standing over their victims and admitting their crimes. And an innocent man.

He can't keep the ministry from repeatedly helping Voldemort/blood purists, and he can't stop himself getting removed multiple times for stupid reasons. He's a terrible politician coasting by on respect
He absolutely could have gotten them, but doing so would have required effectively restarting the war, which Dumbles very strongly did not want to do because he felt too many people had died already.

A large number of death eaters (not all remember; Voldemort's most hardcore supporters went to wizard jail) managed to escape by claiming the Imperious because Dumbledore didn't want to push the issue, not because he couldn't.
 
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To a child.

Remember; Harry Potter is written from Harry's PoV, not from Third Person Omniscient. Just because someone says something is true to Harry does not mean it is actually true.


He absolutely could have gotten them, but doing so would have required effectively restarting the war, which Dumbles very strongly did not want to do because he felt too many people had died already.

A large number of death eaters (not all remember; Voldemort's most hardcore supporters went to wizard jail) managed to escape by claiming the Imperious because Dumbledore didn't want to push the issue, not because he couldn't.

Yeah, how dare he not want to restart the war when his side could win. I mean, it's not like their entire ideology just had its teeth kicked in when their leader lost to a baby. I'm sure Malfoy will devote his life to reflecting on his crimes and never be dangerous again, otherwise a half-decent politician would have had him jailed when he had the chance.

Failing to prosecute his mass murdering, wealthy, and influential political enemies when he has the chance means he is a bad politician. Not to mention all but ensuring another war would happen a few decades down the line, Voldemort be damned
 
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Yeah, how dare he not want to restart the war when his side could win. I mean, it's not like their entire ideology just had its teeth kicked in when their leader lost to a baby. I'm sure Malfoy will devote his life to reflecting on his crimes and never be dangerous again, otherwise a half-decent politician would have had him jailed when he had the chance.

Failing to prosecute his mass murdering, wealthy, and influential political enemies when he has the chance means he is a bad politician. Not to mention all but ensuring another war would happen a few decades down the line, Voldemort be damned
Most people dislike violence and will choose to avoid it where possible.

I think "all adults gaslight Harry to think that Dumbledore wise and all-knowing" is bit radical take.
I wouldn't say it is 'gaslighting' because the story makes it very clear that said adults believe it to be true as well.

That still does not make it true.
 
Yeah, except he didn't avoid it, he increased it massively in exchange for pushing it back long enough he might not have to deal with it himself
He avoided it in the short term in exchange for the uncertain possibility of future violence.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that people making short-term decisions based on what they want to happen now without fully accounting for the potential long-term future consequences is implausible?
 
He avoided it in the short term in exchange for the uncertain possibility of future violence.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that people making short-term decisions based on what they want to happen now without fully accounting for the potential long-term future consequences is implausible?

It is not uncertain, fanatical mass murderers with wealth and political power don't go away on their own. So no, he traded little violence for greater violence further on. Or he was too stupid to realize this, and thus is a bad politician.

And making short term decisions at the expense of the long term is not implausible, it just means he is terrible at planning in the long term, like a politician should
 
Yes, because if nothing else Dumdum is a very good politician.
Different angle on is he...which political wins does he actually score within the entire Harry Potter arc?

- Getting the blackmailed school board to reinstate him in year 2.
- ... ???

He's a revered politician, but he really doesn't seem to be a good one to have leveraged his stature, victory in the first war, and position into the government largely acting as the political wing of the Death Eaters before the Death Eaters actually bother to overthrow it.
 
It is not uncertain, fanatical mass murderers with wealth and political power don't go away on their own. So no, he traded little violence for greater violence further on. Or he was too stupid to realize this, and thus is a bad politician.
Dumbledore believed that without Voldemort's power to back them, the majority of his minions would be too cowardly to do a terrorism on their own.

And you know what? He was right about that.

And making short term decisions at the expense of the long term is not implausible, it just means he is terrible at planning in the long term, like a politician should
I never said he was a good politician; given his demonstrable failure to actually push his agenda he is clearly not very good at politics. Which makes sense as he clearly also doesn't like politics; he just doesn't trust anyone else to push his agenda on his behalf.
 
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I never said he was a good politician; given his demonstrable failure to actually push his agenda he is clearly not very good at politics. Which makes sense as he clearly also doesn't like politics; he just doesn't trust anyone else to push his agenda on his behalf.

You responded to me explaining why he is a bad politician by ostensibly defending him, saying he may have avoided it because he disliked violence. Then repeatedly ignored my points about him being a bad politician until now.

the majority of his minions would be too cowardly to do a terrorism on their own.

Except Malfoy, who unleashed the diary on Ginny and Hogwarts. And the ministry, which is filled with sympathizers by first year etc.
 
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The Wizarding World traded peace for justice, which ended up not getting them either one.

Now, Taylor and Harry have an idea of who they can count on to begin their campaign and who will stand on their way, at least at first. It was also good of Susan to explain the 'You-Know-Who' nonsense to Harry, and probably a lot of others who did not know the why and were just copying their parents or the popular culture in the case of the first-gens.

After the meeting, Dumbledore must be cursing the Lupins for being the cause of Taylor's presence and Harry's open defiance. Will he start to withhold the information he has in a fit of pique until it's almost too late, or will events conspire to show him that his way is not the only one or the more effective?

The chapter also mentions that Snape was in a state, would it be the Vow or guessing that the Potters had something to do with Draco's fall? I guess we'll see in the next DADA class.
 
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You responded to me explaining why he is a bad politician by ostensibly defending him, saying he may have avoided it because he disliked violence. Then repeatedly ignored my points about him being a bad politician until now.
Because your logic was wrong; he's not a bad politician because he couldn't push for prosecution of the Death Eaters who claimed the Imperius, he could have done that, he simply chose not to because he was tired and sad and felt that enough people had died.

I wasn't disagreeing with you that he's a bad politician, I was disagreeing with your provided reasoning to reach that conclusion.
 
Because your logic was wrong; he's not a bad politician because he couldn't push for prosecution of the Death Eaters who claimed the Imperius, he could have done that, he simply chose not to because he was tired and sad and felt that enough people had died.

I wasn't disagreeing with you that he's a bad politician, I was disagreeing with your provided reasoning to reach that conclusion.

If he is so brain dead that he can't see a second war coming by letting off every child-murderer from the last one, even when he can do otherwise, then he is a bad politician due to sheer stupidity, no other reason necessary
 
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Except Malfoy, who unleashed the diary on Ginny and Hogwarts.
Having no idea what it would do and was just trying to get rid of an incriminating piece of evidence, not restart the revolution.

If he is so brain dead that he can't see a second war coming by letting off every child-murderer from the last one, even when he can do otherwise, then he is a bad politician due to sheer stupidity.
He didn't "let off every child-murderer from the last one" though; most of them are in Azkaban. Only about 30 Death Eaters showed up to meet Voldemort in the Graveyard, out of a total of around 400 at their height.

Even if we assume half of Voldemort's supporters died (which is not backed up by the books), that still puts well over a hundred Death Eaters in prison.


I do not understand why you are acting like every single Death Eater escaped when the books very clearly tell us that most of them did not. Some did by claiming the Imperious, which worked because that was in fact a thing that had happened, and thanks to the fact that it seems nobody was willing to force the issue, as well as nobody knowing the circumstances under which a Dark Mark was acquired, a number of marked Death Eaters were able to escape under that umbrella.

Note that the only one of those escaped Death Eaters that had any political relevance was Malfoy; the others were all minor and unimportant people with no real power.

And hell, as Karkaroff demonstrates; just because you were marked doesn't mean you are actually a loyal follower, something that Dumbledore absolutely would have latched onto given his hard-on for redemption due to his own checkered past.
 
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He absolutely could have gotten them, but doing so would have required effectively restarting the war, which Dumbles very strongly did not want to do because he felt too many people had died already.

A large number of death eaters (not all remember; Voldemort's most hardcore supporters went to wizard jail) managed to escape by claiming the Imperious because Dumbledore didn't want to push the issue, not because he couldn't.
If you want to exchange "couldn't" therefore bad politician for "didn't" therefore bad politician, those roads lead to the same output?
And you know what? He was right about that.
No he wasn't? even if we discount Malfoy as acting under Voldy's horcrux, the Death Eater's still did a terrorism at the world cup with no Voldy influence and there was lots of destruction of property and a family of muggles were tortured.
 
If you want to exchange "couldn't" therefore bad politician for "didn't" therefore bad politician, those roads lead to the same output?
And a stopped clock is still correct twice a day, that doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't use it for timekeeping.

It doesn't matter if the wrong logic leads to the correct conclusion; the logic is still wrong.

No he wasn't? even if we discount Malfoy as acting under Voldy's horcrux, the Death Eater's still did a terrorism at the world cup with no Voldy influence and there was lots of destruction of property and a family of muggles were tortured.
Which is a far cry from open warfare and people getting murdered in their homes. It also took over a decade for them to work up to that.
 
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Which is a far cry from open warfare and people getting murdered in their homes. It also took over a decade for them to work up to that.
I don't see why you think people getting murdered in their homes is at all on the table for "Dumbles pushes harder to elimate Death Eater Ideology and those who escaped prison". The point you made is that without Voldy, his minions would be too cowardly to do a terrorism. he was wrong about that. Given how dramatically the ministry failed to stop said terrorism, I don't see any evidence that would have been the last word either. That's what happens when you allow an openly genocidal movement to ferment inside your culture, People keep trying to establish that agenda. Instead of using his political influence which you claim he has (doubt personally, people with political influence don't get run out of public life when they oppose the president) to stretch out a slightly longer, much easier conflict for his side to dig up all the roots, he instead waves it away, allowing it to grow and fester to the point that a Mass Azkaban breakout and the dementors literally turning on the ministry isn't enough to convince the public that Dumbledore was right, and then within months of his death, they take over Britain completely.
That's not good politics. That's explicitly awful politics, that's doing what is easy instead of what is right. The one thing Dumbledore claimed was most important, he couldn't or wouldn't manage.
 
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