Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[fictionfan]

Chance of sleepless nightmares currently 1.1%.

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in water 0.2%

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in ice cold liquid 0.05%

I wanted to calculate on average how many sleepless nights per year these are, but it was too much runtime for anydice and I can't remember my statistics class.

If we do this we can't have Molly sleep in a random bottle refilled with bleach; it's gotta be something like this:


Preferably with some sort of coating that makes it chronically look like it needs a good polish.



It's too good an opportunity to miss.

Click to shrink...

I like the idea, but we likely would want it to be a glass bottle so we can see out. We should still make sure it is properly fancy though.

 

[Neshuakadal]

[X] Look into therapy - Go talk to Father Forthil about your nightmares. Maybe he can help directly. Maybe he can guide you to someone who can help.

 

[charysa]

I like the idea, but we likely would want it to be a glass bottle so we can see out. We should still make sure it is properly fancy though.

Click to shrink...

So like this?

Spoiler

 

[fictionfan]

So like this?

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That would work. Fancy. I find that I like the idea so much that if we have 24 XP next spend I might put

[]Plan genie
-[] Rendered Villain Dispersal 4xp
-[]VEE 20 XP

Not really optimal, but damn cool. Also the best possible way to spring our wish granting abilities on our family.

 

[BronzeTongue]

Chance of sleepless nightmares currently 1.1%.

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in water 0.2%

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in ice cold liquid 0.05%

I wanted to calculate on average how many sleepless nights per year these are, but it was too much runtime for anydice and I can't remember my statistics class.


I like the idea, but we likely would want it to be a glass bottle so we can see out. We should still make sure it is properly fancy though.

Click to shrink...

We could probably disguise a few windows as tastefully placed gems as well, but point taken.

 

[fictionfan]

Chance of sleepless nightmares currently 1.1%.

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in water 0.2%

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in ice cold liquid 0.05%

I wanted to calculate on average how many sleepless nights per year these are, but it was too much runtime for anydice and I can't remember my statistics class.

Click to shrink...

I managed to find a calculator that could manage the problem. But the results are hard to summarize without showing the graphs. If you want see for yourself put the number of days you want to model in N and put the probability of a sleepless nightmare in P then click the box in X to see the graph.

There are 365 days in a year.

 

[JayTar]

Chance of sleepless nightmares currently 1.1%.

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in water 0.2%

Chance of sleepless nightmares sleeping in ice cold liquid 0.05%

I wanted to calculate on average how many sleepless nights per year these are, but it was too much runtime for anydice and I can't remember my statistics class.


I like the idea, but we likely would want it to be a glass bottle so we can see out. We should still make sure it is properly fancy though.

Click to shrink...

Lets see if I remember mine:

Okay we have 365 independent trials each with odds of 0.011. The average should just be 365*0.011=4.015
So about 4 sleepless nights per year.
Modeling it as a Binomial distribution gives at least 98% odds of at least one per year.

On the other hand in water we only have 365*0.002=0.73 a year.
Cold water is 365*0.0005=0.1825 a year.

 

[fictionfan]

You know what would be good therapy? Going out and killing a few Fetches. That should make Molly feel better.

 

[恐Drake]

[X] Ignore then, they will go away eventually, you are just working through some stuff

 

[uju32]

To be fair she lived with them under duress; Dresden had to threaten to withhold magic lessons to get her to move back in.
Charity and Micheal might let her stay, but I think Molly would want to move out as soon as it's actually reasonable to do so.

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At the beginning yes. But I dont see that happening after she became a legal adult.
She was 17 in Proven Guilty and Changes was 6 years later. So 23 when she had to do a runner after Harry had himself shot.
Dresden himself left Ebenzar's farm at 19.

Is Molly likely to move out before then?Almost certainly; an official residence at least, and somewhere with an attached alchemy lab. But unless the Carpenters have to adopt/take in several someones like Maggie Dresden and need the space, Molly is likely to still spend at least half her nights sleeping in her old bed at home.

If we do this we can't have Molly sleep in a random bottle refilled with bleach; it's gotta be something like this:
Preferably with some sort of coating that makes it chronically look like it needs a good polish.

It's too good an opportunity to miss.

Click to shrink...

View: https://youtu.be/kIDWgqDBNXA


But yeah, thats essentially mandatory at this point. Brass, obviously.
Complete with symbolic engravings.

So like this?

Spoiler

Click to shrink...

That would work too.

We could probably disguise a few windows as tastefully placed gems as well, but point taken.

Click to shrink...

Shouldnt be necessary.

Rendered Villain Dispersal explicitly says that you can perceive your surroundings as if through a pane of thin glass.
And Boiling Sea Mastery explicitly says that when fully immersed in water, you can see and hear at least 200 yards in every direction regardless of impediments like churning silt and the darkness of the deepest oceans.

We should be able to see and hear just fine.

The question is going to be if the body of liquid has to be open to the air, or if we can jump into a sealed container.
I think it suggests we can jump into a closed bottle, but I can see how people might argue otherwise.
For the QM to decide.

 

[BronzeTongue]

You know what would be good therapy? Going out and killing a few Fetches. That should make Molly feel better.

Click to shrink...

The Fetches, 'minding their own business' in Chicago:

Spoiler

 

[fictionfan]

Shouldnt be necessary.

Rendered Villain Dispersal explicitly says that you can perceive your surroundings as if through a pane of thin glass.
And Boiling Sea Mastery explicitly says that when fully immersed in water, you can see and hear at least 200 yards in every direction regardless of impediments like churning silt and the darkness of the deepest oceans.

We should be able to see and hear just fine.

The question is going to be if the body of liquid has to be open to the air, or if we can jump into a sealed container.
I think it suggests we can jump into a closed bottle, but I can see how people might argue otherwise.
For the QM to decide.

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Yes good point. Should have reread the charms before saying anything.

 

[Azais]

[X] Ignore then, they will go away eventually, you are just working through some stuff

 

[fictionfan]

Any idea how Molly could go about finding Fetches without using up crown questions? I said it as a joke, but actually would make Molly feel better. Also we don't get that many opportunities to murder blender things that really deserve it.

 

[Artemis1992]

Any idea how Molly could go about finding Fetches without using up crown questions? I said it as a joke, but actually would make Molly feel better. Also we don't get that many opportunities to murder blender things that really deserve it.

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Personally she'd have a hard time, she has no useful charms for such a hunt.

I guess she could ask lesser Winter- or Wyldfey until she manages to get a Fetch's location out of one.

 

[fictionfan]

Personally she'd have a hard time, she has no useful charms for such a hunt.

I guess she could ask lesser Winter- or Wyldfey until she manages to get a Fetch's location out of one.

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Yes we currently have to basically hope that one of our allies will pass on a hint. If we find a Fetch then after we kill it we can ask it's corpse where it's friends are repeat as nessacry, but we still need to find that first Fetch.

 

[DragonParadox]

The question is going to be if the body of liquid has to be open to the air, or if we can jump into a sealed container.
I think it suggests we can jump into a closed bottle, but I can see how people might argue otherwise.
For the QM to decide.

Click to shrink...

I'd say it has to be open to the air, there is nothing in the charms that suggests it allows you to pass through anything solid.

 

[uju32]

Yes we currently have to basically hope that one of our allies will pass on a hint. If we find a Fetch then after we kill it we can ask it's corpse where it's friends are repeat as nessacry, but we still need to find that first Fetch.

Click to shrink...

More seriously?
Killing shit is generally a pretty poor coping mechanism. Getting a mindset of "acceptable targets" is unhealthy.

I'd say it has to be open to the air, there is nothing in the charms that suggests it allows you to pass through anything solid.

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Specifically?

Without the ability to enter, and specifically, exit from closed containers, you can be imprisoned in a bottle of water that was closed/sealed AFTER you entered and went to sleep, say. Which seems to be against the intent of the charm's drafter, and a rather large problem.

Remember, RVD explicitly denies you freedom of movement once you're dispersed in the body of liquid; you cant just break the bottle's surface physically.

 

[DragonParadox]

More seriously?
Killing shit is generally a pretty poor coping mechanism. Getting a mindset of "acceptable targets" is unhealthy.


Specifically?

Without the ability to enter, and specifically, exit from closed containers, you can be imprisoned in a bottle of water that was closed/sealed AFTER you entered and went to sleep, say. Which seems to be against the intent of the charm's drafter, and a rather large problem.

Remember, RVD explicitly denies you freedom of movement once you're dispersed in the body of liquid; you cant just break the bottle's surface physically.

Click to shrink...

You can still break it with any purely mental action you might take, it only denies you movement not all actions. So for instance Path abilities that could shatter a bottle are fair game.

 

[Yog]

I'd like to point out that at least specifically for anything we ourselves make this shouldn't be a problem. Just make a capillary channel through a solid wall. Modern technology allows one to make capillaries as small as ten(s) of microns.

 

[uju32]

You can still break it with any purely mental action you might take, it only denies you movement not all actions. So for instance Path abilities that could shatter a bottle are fair game.

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Only if you invested in a relevant Sorcery (or Psychic)Path, and have a tutor. And sorcery isnt a default assumption for the ExWoD Infernal. It seems antithetical to the design assumptions of the Infernal, or indeed Exalted, charmset that you need to buy other charms or to go outside the charmset altogether to avoid your own 1-dot charm fucking you over in its normal function.

Still, your ruling.

I'd like to point out that at least specifically for anything we ourselves make this shouldn't be a problem. Just make a capillary channel through a solid wall. Modern technology allows one to make capillaries as small as ten(s) of microns.

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You dont need modern tech for that.
If we went by that ruling, basically every clay pot is porous.
And I dont think thats the intent.

 

[DragonParadox]

Only if you invested in a relevant Sorcery (or Psychic)Path, and have a tutor. And sorcery isnt a default assumption for the ExWoD Infernal. It seems antithetical to the design assumptions of the Infernal, or indeed Exalted, charmset that you need to buy other charms or to go outside the charmset altogether to avoid your own 1-dot charm fucking you over in its normal function.

Still, your ruling.

You dont need modern tech for that.
If we went by that ruling, basically every clay pot is porous.
And I dont think thats the intent.

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If the infernal intentionally turns themselves into liquid and then allows a lid/cork to be placed on the vessel that feels to me less like the charm screwing the user over and more like a lack of foresight. Since the infernal can see everything going on around them as liquid it's not like someone putting a cork on the bottle can take them by surprise.

 

[uju32]

If the infernal intentionally turns themselves into liquid and then allows a lid/cork to be placed on the vessel that feels to me less like the charm screwing the user over and more like a lack of foresight. Since the infernal can see everything going on around them as liquid it's not like someone putting a cork on the bottle can take them by surprise.

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Not if you're sleeping.
Or trying to heal from some -4/-5 wound penalty or poisoning.
Which is what the combo of Rendered Villain Dispersal and Charred Sinner Renewal seems explicitly designed to do.

The proportionality of what it takes to confine an Infernal in this scenario seems way off if it just requires a pot lid or bottle cap.

You cant talk by default when dispersed in RVD, so you cant negotiate or social your captor.
You cant take physical actions, so you cant attempt to run or fight your way out unless you have gone outside the charmset altogether to buy Sorcery or Psychics. Or maybe Ancient Sorcery.

Even the Infernal movement charm that allows you to run through walls at the cost of HP require that you already be moving.

Literally the only charm that I can think of that might be applicable here is Mind Hand Manipulation.
Which requires a high Occult Infernal to use
It just doesnt seem to fit with the idea of this being a 1 dot charm for your starting Infernal to make use of.

(I also looked at Sandstrike Blast; its a Dex + Ability charm, so physical. Also friendly fire damage.)

TL DR
Under this rule?

If they got their hands on you while you were weakened, or asleep, or snuck up on you under a veil? Even after you heal you have no options for engaging with the situation unless your captor makes a mistake. Which does not seem like the design intent for the charm, or Exalted play in general.

 

[Artemis1992]

Not if you're sleeping.
Or trying to heal from some -4/-5 wound penalty or poisoning.
Which is what the combo of Rendered Villain Dispersal and Charred Sinner Renewal seems explicitly designed to do.

The proportionality of what it takes to confine an Infernal in this scenario seems way off if it just requires a pot lid or bottle cap.

You cant talk by default when dispersed in RVD, so you cant negotiate or social your captor.
You cant take physical actions, so you cant attempt to run or fight your way out unless you have gone outside the charmset altogether to buy Sorcery or Psychics. Or maybe Ancient Sorcery.

Even the Infernal movement charm that allows you to run through walls at the cost of HP require that you already be moving.

Literally the only charm that I can think of that might be applicable here is Mind Hand Manipulation.
Which requires a high Occult Infernal to use
It just doesnt seem to fit with the idea of this being a 1 dot charm for your starting Infernal to make use of.

(I also looked at Sandstrike Blast; its a Dex + Ability charm, so physical. Also friendly fire damage.)

TL DR
Under this rule?

If they got their hands on you while you were weakened, or asleep, or snuck up on you under a veil? Even after you heal you have no options for engaging with the situation unless your captor makes a mistake. Which does not seem like the design intent for the charm, or Exalted play in general.

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You don't have to fight while bottled up.
A single success on Mind-Hand or Sandstrike is easily enough to break the bottle.

 

[uju32]

You don't have to fight while bottled up.
A single success on Mind-Hand or Sandstrike is easily enough to break the bottle.

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I dont agree.

Sandstrike Blast is Dex + Athletics; physical, so it doesnt work, even if you didnt have to worry about friendly fire.
MHM is Int + Occult, so its applicable, but it both requires that you are both an Occult-specced Infernal, and that you're in a plastic or glass container. Metal, like a kettle, flask, teapot, or even a soda can, and you have issues.

The signs suggest that it wasnt supposed to work that way.