While we should learn that ancient spell, and probably teach it to Lydia, I think Lydia could well be better than us at this, if properly equipped (including getting her proper animal companions).
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
That's not the point. The other fomor charms explicitly only work on mortals, and that's clearly deliberate, as they don't have the rules for what happens when you use them on supernaturals. They wouldn't work on other supernaturals that can be possessed either, like vampires or Garou. The maggot pit charm works on supernaturals, but the downside is that it had a lot more unpleasant side effects. This is clearly deliberate to deter you turning your already supernatural allies or minions into fomor. Template stacking is something that WoD discourages with nasty side effects at best.
We couldn't turn Thomas into a fomor using the other charms eithe, or the ghouls.
If it wasn't intended to exclude supernaturals, the charms wouldn't be specifically limited to mortals. It would just say target.
Lydia isn't actually an Exalted, she's just using those rules for mechanical convenience. That means she can't use an Exalted's admin permission. Even if she can Molly would remain much better as she can apply her difficulty reducers and dice adders to get vastly more successes than Lydia ever could. Molly is astonishingly good at anything that can be done on her own terms on her own ground, like summoning.
I mean, it's a real loss that Corpsetaker got away as otherwise we could learn Iron Shade Binding and binding her to obedience for a year to get her to spill all her secrets.
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I am not really convinced, tbh. Things like that can be played flexibly depending on your storyteller. Altho DP mostly has experience with DnD, so maybe if I wasn't making emphasis on the fact that you want better-than-generic enhancements for your close friends, that would be a problem.
That's arguable. Like, very arguable, unless we got a QM message I missed. There's plenty enough weirdness in how Lydia was born that I still have odds on Kemmler discovering remnants of Autochtonia somewhere deep in the NeverNever.
Arawn got them, they didn't get away:
MId-combat is not "on her own terms on her own ground". And most things Molly would be summoning meaningfully, would be obvious stuff. Devils, monster, etc. High level, high power, but not subtle. Well, maybe also some ancient magical cybernetically enhanced monks or something.
Lydia gets to summon a lot with low level stuff, and then, if and once those are killed, reanimate them as undead zombies. And the "call ghosts from across the country to you" is a celestial-grade BS.
I mean, yes, the Storyteller can overrule them, but it's pretty clear that the rules as intended are that the default fomor creation charms can't make supernatural fomor, which can be a lot more powerful, and only the most horrific, slowest and hard to use charm is an exception. There's basically some rough balancing, which is fair enough, as something like a vampire fomor is massively more powerful than a regular fomor, particularly given they then become a valid target for Infernal training charms that work on Fomor.
Why would you want to summon mid combat, when you can bind spirits before combat and store them in your anima?
And Molly can cast Iron Shade Binding which is better when it comes to ghosts given her other charms.
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For XP the thing I would most like to see is Molly the character taking 1 out of 5 xp and putting it towards what she would want. As a lot of stuff is never going to get picked without a system like that.
TBH, I think I made my point already concerning what I think about this situation in general and empowering Lydia in particular.
The biggest issue with stacking templates on Lydia or any exalt is that exaltations are meant for humans. If you stop being a human, your exalation leaves you. Lydia can't become a fomor for the simple reason of that precluding her from being a demigod of her father. It's an incredibly bad idea. Make her power armor and iron weapons (speaking of, can someone explain Brawl vs Melee to me? Brawl is for unarmed, Melee is for armed combat? I mean, do we make her battle gloves or something?).
She is not an exalt she a godblood. And second exaltation does not care what you do after you exalt, so long as your alive it stays.
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In ExWoD dragonblooded can be possessed. The Bane just feeds on their essence so they become increasingly powerful until they melt into a puddle of taints or explode, leaving you with a suped up Bane and a dead Dragomblooded. As a result possessed Dragonblooded are strongly advised to get help banishing it asap.
If an Exalt becomes a god or elemental or primordial their Exaltation falls off.
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That is not a rule without its own share of caveats, tho. Consider Akuma. Consider Dragonblooded charms that allow merging with a willing spirit, back in E2.
Finally, consider Holden specifically writing "Yes, this is a thing that could happen" in ExWoD in a paragraph that specifically describes interactions of possession-prone spirits with various types of exalts.
By the rules of ExWoD, she is Exigent, which are a new type of exalts that come from 3rd edition. And no, you absolutely can do stuff that would make your Exaltation fall off, but like. It really isn't easy.
God and elemental are lesser existences to exalts and also explicitly impossible to become as it stepping down which the exaltation cannot do. Becoming a primordial is fine as well, becoming a copy of an the defeated Yozi will cause the exaltation to leave thou again lesser existence to the exalted.
And she explicitly keep her exaltation, with the only downside being have to invent new charms.
And exigent are beyond stupid when Godblooded are functionally the exact same thing but better.
Ok. Still, a bad idea in my mind. Better to empower Lydia through equipment, minions (she can and should have her own ghost court, as much as we have our monster court in the Undercity. Maybe we should visit some Pyramids? Ancient egyptian priest retainers could be great for her), stuff like that.
Speaking of, does Command the Dead allow Lydia to animate crude oil? It's at least partially the bodies of dead plants and prehistoric animals? Hmm, taking it even further - can Lydia animate limestone and dead wood in general? Animated wooden soldiers / golems sound much more PR friendly than corpses.
Speaking of, does Command the Dead allow Lydia to animate crude oil? It's at least partially the bodies of dead plants and prehistoric animals? Hmm, taking it even further - can Lydia animate limestone and dead wood in general? Animated wooden soldiers / golems sound much more PR friendly than corpses.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Harry: I animated a T-Rex and rode her like a mighty steed through downtown Chicago to stop the rise of a new necromancer god. Pretty spiffy, right?
Lydia: Hold my mocha frappe.
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Also, back in E2, Dragonblooded also gained some power from breeding with Raksha? Or gods? But it diluted the bloodlines, and therefore was a pretty bad idea? I remember something vague like that. Altho I might be misremembering, it was awhile.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Breeding with God's guaranteed exaltation of the DB child but diluted the bloodline.
In 3E it is the Cawl and the 5 shrines.
Given that you are typically pretty enthusiastic about devil-tigers, I thought that additional spiritual symbionts/purpose made organs would be ok with you?
I am. Enthusiastic that is, and about trans- ... exaltism, I guess, too. But before we even look into trying to do that, we need to figure out how Lydia works. Is she actually an exalt? Is she a strange demigod? What sort of natural progression is she going to have?
And, besides, fomor are described as "cursed, wretched beings" for a reason, and no, we very deliberately don't get to choose / design fomori we make. Transforming people we love / care for into fomori is not something to be done easily or at all under most circumstances. I mean, there's always Darkhallow, if we want to empower Lydia.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Wasn't this already answered? She is a Demigod being mechanically simulated as a Extigence.
If I recall correctly, there was ambiguity. Like, even if she's a demigod, she's not a normal one:
1) She's not empowered by Arawn's pantheon, but by the very concept of death, due to Kemmler's legacy
2) Her date of birth is significant (she was born on Halloween)
3) She's an essence manipulator, not a magic user, if I understood correctly
4) Her excellencies are actually excellencies. As in, when asked if we could use the crown on her doing something flashy to circumvent "exaltation can't see itself" rule to investigate the nature of our powers, the answer was mostly positive, from what I recall.
For figuring out what sort of a custom spirit to integrate onto her soul structure all that prolly would be a part of the process, tho.
Typical fomori produces misshapen freaks because Pentex works with spirits of Pure Evil and Corruption, slapping random often unwilling spirits into unwilling hosts without much care for their longevity. When Pentex actually cares, they produce Ferectoi, which are pretty much terrestrials.
But there are examples of even more benign possessions in the universe, and they are pretty impressive. Given that with Key+Kingdom we gain opportunity to use our own demons created from Molly's soul for the procedure, I think kami/other posessed splats are closer to what could be expected with proper care and thoroughness.
Darkhallow definitively would be better, but Darkhallow is also how Molly herself could go E6, I presume. Shame that it is a super-murder ritual, tho.