Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

He might, but I have no idea what it might be focused on. Intellectus are usually very focused on a certain type of knowledge. Best way to torture people, what is happening on a certain island, hearing my name or all that is said in complete darkness.

Odin might have have an intellectus in his aspect as Santa allowing him to judge who is naughty and nice. Or something else, but there is no certainly that he would know all that much about us.
Pretty sure it's the wisdom that he sacrificed his eye to get. That's one of the fundamental parts of Odin's myth.

But intellects are just knowledge. They are not unlimited knowledge. They are just a big pile of knowledge. If Raksha are outsiders than this implies that our exaltation came from creation and that creation was shattered into unreality as it was devoured from the outside in by outsiders. We are not an outsider, but we ARE using a power from a DIFFERENT INSIDE.

Mab may have knowledge of what we are (or she could have been bluffing), but she also had possession of the exaltation locked away and so had reason to go look for answers. There is no specific reason that Odin's intelectus has the specific knowledge that is "What the fuck is this green sun thing?"
 
Last edited:
He might, but I have no idea what it might be focused on. Intellectus are usually very focused on a certain type of knowledge. Best way to torture people, what is happening on a certain island, hearing my name or all that is said in complete darkness.

Odin might have have an intellectus in his aspect as Santa allowing him to judge who is naughty and nice. Or something else, but there is no certainly that he would know all that much about us.
When Harry speaks to him during Changes, he seems to know a lot of things, including something about the future that is not just conventional guessing, but at the same time he implies that a lot of this comes from some more conventional information gathering rather than some supernatural "i just know" ability.

He probably has something, but i would not be surprised if it was pretty limited. Odin in the modern day seem to be a champion of doing much with little.
 
He might, but I have no idea what it might be focused on. Intellectus are usually very focused on a certain type of knowledge. Best way to torture people, what is happening on a certain island, hearing my name or all that is said in complete darkness.

Odin might have have an intellectus in his aspect as Santa allowing him to judge who is naughty and nice. Or something else, but there is no certainly that he would know all that much about us.
Ah, sorry about that, the comment got eaten. Anyway, based on what Gard told Marcone, there are several possibilities:
1) Gard is lying to Marcone. Possible, but tells us essentially nothing, except maybe that Marcone is not considered trustworthy enough by Gard and/or Odin
2) Gard truly doesn't know what exaltations are, and either hasn't asked Odin, or he didn't tell her anything. This would mean that exaltatins are a very closely kept secret
3) Gard and Odin both are unaware of what exaltations are. Depending on if Odin as Winter King and Odin as Odin share knowledge, and can share it, this means that WInter in general is unlikely to know what exaltations are. This means that Mab was bluffing, or at least was likely bluffing. She might have inferred something from having our exaltation in captivity, but is unlikely give us the whole "From time before Time itself, Primordials arose. They crafted Creation together... Autchton, Celesital incarna..." etc lore dump or anything like that.
 
Ignoring things like Paradox and using Mage the Ascension revised for Sphere magic.

Creating new fully functional Minds is a 5 dot mind effect per revised.

Making two places co-located is a 5 dot correspondence effect

Time Travel is a 5 dot time effect.

Taking the shape of any creature you desire without regard for size is a 5 dot life effect.

If you go beyond 5 dots in a sphere that gets into basically god territory.

So similar to the strongest charms but without the ability to use several at the same time or use them in combat without preparations. Of course I suppose that the cost of exp is higher than charms and that most is done ritually to work at that level.
 
So similar to the strongest charms but without the ability to use several at the same time or use them in combat without preparations. Of course I suppose that the cost of exp is higher than charms and that most is done ritually to work at that level.

Yeah Spheres are Expensive and flexible. Especially in conjunction with each other. But you have to consider paradigm and paradox too. An Awakened Progenitor combat construct ALA Rose from Panopticon Quest couldn't manifest effects in the same way as a Chorister who couldn't manifest effects like an Etherite.

First dot in a Sphere is 10 XP. Mages get one Specialty Sphere determined by their faction. That Sphere advances at New Rating*7

So assuming 1 dot in the specialty sphere at chargen, specialty 2 is 14 XP, specialty 3 is 21 XP, specialty 4 is 28 XP, and specialty 5 is 35 XP.

Non specialty spheres go 10, 16, 24, 32, 40

Then you have to consider spheres are capped by a Mage's Arete.

That's new Rating * 8(After chargen, Arete 2 is 16 XP, Arete 3 is 24, Arete 4 is 32, Arete 5 is 40). A chargen mage can have at most 3 Arete. Ex vs WOD Essence Ratings scale at current rating*8(Essence 2 is 8 XP, Essence 3 is 16 XP, Essence 4 is 24 XP, Essence 5 is 32 XP) and an unfavored 5 dot charm costs 20 XP.

Here's the start of a Panopticon Interlude where Cristos is the character people are controlling. Cristos is an Arete 7 extremely experienced Mage with Correspondence 2, Entropy 5, Forces 3, Life 4, Matter 2, Mind 5, Prime 3, Spirit 5, and Time 3 and a paradigm focused on sheer personal excellence.

MJ12's Primer on Cristos and His capabilities: Panopticon [Quest]: A Quest about Conspiracy, Chaos, Order, and SeaDart

The Interlude itself: Panopticon: A Game of Posthumans, Perniciousness, Paranoia, Politics, and Plasmaguns
 
You know... The Gossamer is pure chaotic potential right? Could we use it to speed up Lydia's father's return? We have a connection to him through her. Can we turn the Gossamer into a "return to life" jumpstarter?
Probably a bad plan. Mab is still unhappy with him, and that's not terribly good for his long term health.

She's not likely to forget, but her priorities can shift.

If he was completely somnolent then I could see the argument, but Lydia can basically talk to him as much as she wants. It's not the same, but it's a lot better than a complete loss.

Everyone involved is effectively unaging, letting the heat die down for a few centuries is more inconvenient than anything else.
 
RE: Sphere magic vs Linear magic
@ImBuda Generally, Linear Magic is comprehensively weaker, but there are caveats for Exalts specifically. First, general overview.

Within the spectrum of the first 5 dots, their ultimate capabilities are pretty much the same. Sphere Magic creates minds at 5 dots, Linear Magic creates minds at 6 dots. Sphere Magic can teleport anywhere at 5 dots, Conveyance can teleport anywhere with a 6 dots ritual. They more or less track together in terms of they could accomplish at their peak.*

The difference is the lack of general flexibility and resource costs; Sphere Mages can make stuff on the fly in far wider spectrum than Sorcerers, need to play a whole lot less of XP for it, and have a considerably easier time creating complicate multi-sphere effects - sorcerers to use multipath effects like Scry and Die stuff needs minute-to-hours long rituals, Mages don't. Sometimes, Linear Magic needs 6 dots for 5 dots equivalent of Sphere Magic; sometimes sorcerers need to pay permanent willpower (effectively, an XP cost per spell cast) when Mages don't. Or just plain needs normally improbable amount of successes on a relevant roll to replicate Sphere effects.

A specific example; Sphere of Life. Mage with Life 5 can heal, shapeshift and create some primitive life, a single Sphere. For Sorcerer, Healing and Shapeshifting are two separate paths, warranting two separate purchases.

So, XP efficiency makes Mages a far more powerful splat than Sorcerers in general play, as they get a whole lot more bang for their buck.

But Molly is not a regular sorcerer, and both gets considerably more out of dots she has, and get those dots at a major discount. Normal Sorcerers purchase at X5 their current rating per dot, Molly purchases at x3 per dot and can get further discounts with grimoires or spent action points. Funny fact; Shish MA which Molly is learning right now for free in exchange for spending action points, can be learned as Linear magic.

Spells normal sorcerers and even mages struggle to cast on the go, Molly aces with her insane dice pools and difficulty adjusters, and she casts them considerably faster. On top of that, Molly also generally has the capacity to cast most of Linear Magic for, essentially, free - there is a way of casting spells without spending resources in exchange for increased difficulty, but Molly really doesn't care about increased difficulty.

As a part of overall build, Linear Sorcery also allows to extend the ultimate cap of power DP currently allows us; there are no limits on dice-stacking in ExWoD, but there are only so many charms. Ultimate cap for soak/damage resistance is 10 points less without Linear Sorcery for example; a hefty loss.

Currently, we want Linear Sorcery because it allows to surpass the limits of Core ExWoD Charms available, and fill in for capabilities Infernal Charms lack; granting wishes without turning people into demons or destroying their minds, healing yourself and others without nasty drawbacks, crafting stuff without engaging with Holden's overcomplicated crafting system, and so on.

Supposedly, Exalted have their own magic system, Ancient Sorcery/Circle Sorcery/Sorcerous Workings, to fall back on this sort of stuff, but Holden butchered the shit out of it in ExWoD so we make do with what we have. 10XP a pop for shitty spells is just horrid.

Finally, there are charms that allow Exalts to further boost their sorcerous powers, like Scepter and Pentacle; when DP finally allows custom charms, I'll write one for Linear Magic. Or maybe we'll homebrew a version of Ancient Sorcery system that isn't horrid. That would be nice. There is a homebrew for Sorcerous Working in ExWoD floating on the net.

I'd describe mechanics more thoroughly and draw more detailed comparisons for everything, but I kind of don't have time, sorry
 
Last edited:
Probably a bad plan. Mab is still unhappy with him, and that's not terribly good for his long term health.

She's not likely to forget, but her priorities can shift.

If he was completely somnolent then I could see the argument, but Lydia can basically talk to him as much as she wants. It's not the same, but it's a lot better than a complete loss.

Everyone involved is effectively unaging, letting the heat die down for a few centuries is more inconvenient than anything else.

Him being unable to protect himself and helpless of Mab tracks him down to wherever he is makes him a lot easier for Mab too kill them him being fully awake.

On top of that having an active and awake Arawn is a positive good for the world. Necromancers are a serious threat, and having him up and about and killing then makes the world a safer place. It's not inconvenient for him to be absent. It's actively endangering the continued existence of humanity at a critical point for him to be taken out of the game. We're at one of those moments where the stars are right for the apocalypse, and we need all the help we can possibly get.

I also don't believe that Mab is capable of letting a grudge go under any circumstances. Unless we do the sensible thing and kill and replace her, she's always going to be murderously vengeful.
 
[X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
-[X] Try to take the fainted "nurse" with you
 
Never stated but inferred, from the fact we can restore the crafters ablity to make warden swords by granting the Sphere natural merit. And can grant the potential to reach that level to others, with the Sphere natural merit. #6,521
Thank you for the citation.
I dont think I agree with your interpretation, but thanks for taking the trouble.

Interesting. Does Odin have intellectus? It seems that either Gard is lying (unlikely from the context), Odin knows and hasn't told her, or exaltations are
Odin almost certainly has intellectus under his mantle as Kris Kringle/Santa Claus, particularly during Yule.
Its not said, but its heavily implied that his power level waxes during the holiday season and wanes afterwards.

Donal Vadderung, otoh, does not. Neither does Odin One-Eye.
They do have very good intelligence networks though, though we dont know the mechanics of how thats sorted.
But that has clear limits, as evidenced by when he told Dresden he didnt know where Maggie Dresden was, just where she would be.

Iron and carbon are easy. Now, try finding stuff like rhenium (used in advanced superalloys), lutetium (high power high temperature magnets, certain alloys), or other rare elements.

You can expect to find (or extract from stainless steel) chromium, nickel, vanadium, maybe titanium. Once you go for rarer stuff, you are out of luck in a household.
Why would we need them?

Rhenium is an element of high temperature alloys, such as in jet engines and turbine blades.
Stable lutetium has very few applications outside stuff like catalyzing industrial chemistry processes like petroleum cracking. Neither of them is relevant to a discussion about building body armor, any more than polonium would be.

The elements that modern science considers to be relevant to the manufacture of high quality, lightweight personal armor are not particularly scarce or hard to come by. And someone who makes armor like Charity(in addition to her husband's, she makes sufficient excess that the armor everyone wore to Arctis Tor was her make) would have relevant samples at home.

You dont need the Periodic Table.
We aren't using mortal magic. We are using exalted BS. I have zero reason to believe that Charity working with us is impossible. I have little reason to believe that she is actually using active faith magic when making the armor for Michael (in fact, I have all the reason to believe that she is actively not using supernatural abilities). I don't see why we shouldn't try. And, above all else, I don't think we would do worse in making actual armor.

Mab, one of the highest hitters in the universe, when going all out (if with little to no ritualistic preparation) rolls 20 dice with an additional UMI effect when doing social combat. Assuming Charity is as good at crafting as Mab is at social combat, math checks out that we'd be at least as good.
1) Charity made armor that stopped multiple handgun rounds at contact range.
The pistol was literally touching the armor, and the bullets went through the steel but got stopped by ceramic backing. This is canon. That is, to the best of my knowledge, well beyond the capabilities of a mortal artisan working with an amateur setup.

2) My dude. You are in the position of a Level 4 DnD wizard insisting that a Level 10 Cleric's magic must work with ours because the cleric's patron deity has no option but to cooperate with us because Reasons. Regardless of whatever prior agreements said deity is party to.

3) Michael has been a knight for more than two decades.
His wife makes him armor good enough to stop contact range handgun fire by the head Denarian. If his Employer had deemed it necessary that he needs better armor, he would have gotten it by now.

This is one of those occasions where it behooves us to recognize boundaries and stay in our lane.
There are lots of ways to offer our father support without walking into landmines of what works for Knights.
This isnt one of them.

4)And one point of correction: Mab was making a serious social effort.
Nowhere, however, does it say or imply that she was going all out.
Finally, there are charms that allow Exalts to further boost their sorcerous powers, like Scepter and Pentacle; when DP finally allows custom charms, I'll write one for Linear Magic. Or maybe we'll homebrew a version of Ancient Sorcery system that isn't horrid. That would be nice. There is a homebrew for Sorcerous Working in ExWoD floating on the net.
Linky please?
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Nov 18, 2022 at 3:44 AM, finished with 182 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X]Plan Foxhunt
    -[X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
    --[X]Loot cultist cellphones before leaving Soul's Rest
    --[X]Crown of Eyes: NotWolverine: What way do they open?: -1 Essence
    --[X]Crown of Eyes: NotWolverine's Partner: What is Dr Niemi's current cellphone number: -1 Essence
    --[X]Return to hotel; run check with cyberdevils in hotel network and in La Blanche's phone if anything of significance has happened
    --[X]Let Michael and Lydia use the bathroom first.
    --[X]Two hour bleach soak to regen 9/11 HLs and 4/12 Essence to full
    --[X]Call Dresden at scheduled time. Use Burny, not his landline, to avoid Daedalus landline intercepts if they exist.
    --[X]Wait for Lydia to refresh Essence at (sunset? midnight?) before setting out again.
    --[X]Dr Niemi's cellphone: Using an online ID spoofer, have Clippy call number and attempt to sell him an extended warranty. Crown of Eyes location of owner of phone
    --[X]Cyberdevils:
    ---[X]Police traffic camera network around Soul's Rest. Attempt to track destination of fleeing cultists, especially Niemi
    ---[X]Cultist phone history, with aim of finding out why they wanted the gossamer, and any safe houses to flee to
    --[X]STUNT: A last look around the erstwhile chamber of horrors. "One minute".In moments you are going through their pockets, ignoring bulging billfolds and credit cards in favor of a small pile of cellphones. At your Dad's look, you explain as you stuff them in your pockets "Loose ends, Dad. Niemi was apparently scamming both Iku Turso and the poor people here. His people's phones might help us figure why." A hurried departure through empty passageways gets you out of there just ahead of a throng of firemen and EMTs, and you only have a brief meeting with Ruth Koskinen before slipping out the foyer and down the sidewalk.
    [X] Return home, someone is going to have to deliver all these Pathfinder goons to the White Council
    [X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
    -[X]Loot cultist cellphones before leaving Soul's Rest
    -[X] Set Clippy and your other cyberdevils to tracking the cultists you identified.
    --[X]Police traffic camera network around Soul's Rest. Attempt to track destination of fleeing cultists, especially Niemi
    --[X] Have them check ICQ and other messengers and social pages of the cultists. Maybe you'll be able to track them that way.
    -[X]Bleach soak to heal and regain power
    -[X] Go after Dr. Niemi after both you and Lydia regain power.
    --[X] Use the crown at that time to check where he fled to. Use the Soul's Rest site as a focus. The question is "where is Dr. Niemi fleeing to?"
    --[X] Spend the time between you getting out of the bath and going hunting for Niemi looking for fleeing cultists.
    -[X] Message Harry that there is a mess to clean up in Cleveland, definitely breaching a lot of the Laws. You, dad, and Lydia dealt with the immediate situation, but there are prisoners that need handling. Have Clippy compile and send a detailed report to Mouse's devilphone. In cypher / whatever demonic language your cyberdevils speak.
    --[X] Call Harry at 7 P.M.
    -[X] Stunt: "Ok! So, who's up for pizza? I am famished, and need good food and a nice bath before we go hunt down the local mastermind." You ask casually even as you are quickly typing on you phone, giving your virtual minions their marching orders. And looking for good pizza deliveries in Cleveland.
    [X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
    [X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
    -[X] Ask urgent questions via the crown:
    --[X] Use the building or its website, if it is still up, as a focus of the crown. The question to ask is "where is Dr. Niemi fleeing to?"
    --[X] Set Clippy and your other cyberdevils to tracking the cultists you identified.
    -[X] If possible, try to give Lydia some power before taking a bleach bath.
    --[X] Go after Dr. Niemi after we regain our power.
    -[X] Message Harry that there is a mess to clean up in Cleveland, possibly infringing upon "Though shalt not Open the Outer Gates" law, and definitely with a lot of other Laws. You, dad, and Lydia dealt with the immediate situation, but there are prisoners that need handling. Have Clippy compile and send a detailed report to Mouse's devilphone.
    -[X] Stunt: "Ok! So, who's up for pizza? I am famished, and need good food and a nice bath before we go hunt down the local mastermind." You ask casually even as you are quickly typing on you phone, giving your virtual minions their marching orders. And looking for good pizza deliveries in Cleveland.
    [X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
    -[X]Loot cultist cellphones before leaving Soul's Rest
    -[X] Set Clippy and your other cyberdevils to tracking the cultists you identified.
    --[X]Police traffic camera network around Soul's Rest. Attempt to track destination of fleeing cultists, especially Niemi
    --[X] Have them check ICQ and other messengers and social pages of the cultists. Maybe you'll be able to track them that way.
    -[X] If possible, try to give Lydia some power before taking a bleach bath.
    -[X]Bleach soak to heal and regain power
    -[X] Go after Dr. Niemi after both you and Lydia regain power.
    --[X] Use the crown at that time to check where he fled to. Use the Soul's Rest site as a focus. The question is "where is Dr. Niemi fleeing to?"
    --[X] Spend the time between you getting out of the bath and going hunting for Niemi interrogating the prisoners.
    ---[X] Use Intimidation excellency
    ---[X] Focus on who they work for, who they were in contact with, etc.
    -[X] Message Harry that there is a mess to clean up in Cleveland, possibly infringing upon "Though shalt not Open the Outer Gates" law, and definitely with a lot of other Laws. You, dad, and Lydia dealt with the immediate situation, but there are prisoners that need handling. Have Clippy compile and send a detailed report to Mouse's devilphone.
    -[X] Stunt: "Ok! So, who's up for pizza? I am famished, and need good food and a nice bath before we go hunt down the local mastermind." You ask casually even as you are quickly typing on you phone, giving your virtual minions their marching orders. And looking for good pizza deliveries in Cleveland.
    [X] See if you can track down the escaped cultists
    -[X] Try to take the fainted "nurse" with you
 
Him being unable to protect himself and helpless of Mab tracks him down to wherever he is makes him a lot easier for Mab too kill them him being fully awake.
She was literally in the room with us; if Arawn was accessible she'd have him already. Waiting to do so serves little purpose.

As to the other bit; he isn't the only or greatest hunter of necromancers. So far he's given me the impression of notable incompetence, but even if I'm wrong I doubt his absence is a critical danger to the world.

Mab won't give up a grudge, but this is a business thing. She's perfectly capable of setting things way down her priority list, and now that Arawn doesn't have her stuff it's not really worth her time. In a few centuries when she's busy and the insult is less immediate he'll probably be fine.
 
I found the material on ExWoD-dedicated discord that I found in an old 2020 RPG.Net thread I accidentally found with a google "Exalted Versus World of Darkness" request. A moment, I'll ask for permissions to post the links.
@uju32

Join the The Original ExWoD and Demake server Discord Server!

Check out the The Original ExWoD and Demake server community on Discord - hang out with 181 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

docs.google.com

Exalted vs. the World of Darkness: Divine Workings

Exalted vs the World of Darkness: Divine Workings This is a supplement designed for my Healing World homebrew. It is meant to be used in combination with that article, but does not strictly have to be. Any listed differences for the Healing World version will be bolded and have (HW) at the end t...
Workings homebrew specifically. Supposedly unfinished.
It literally says she threw everything she had at us:
Preparations make a big difference. That was everything she had at hand, at that moment. Difference between "just" activating all social charms you got on a short notice, and truly preparing everything you got could easily be 10-15 dice.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. Does Odin have intellectus? It seems that either Gard is lying (unlikely from the context), Odin knows and hasn't told her, or exaltations are

Iron and carbon are easy. Now, try finding stuff like rhenium (used in advanced superalloys), lutetium (high power high temperature magnets, certain alloys), or other rare elements.

You can expect to find (or extract from stainless steel) chromium, nickel, vanadium, maybe titanium. Once you go for rarer stuff, you are out of luck in a household.

We aren't using mortal magic. We are using exalted BS. I have zero reason to believe that Charity working with us is impossible. I have little reason to believe that she is actually using active faith magic when making the armor for Michael (in fact, I have all the reason to believe that she is actively not using supernatural abilities). I don't see why we shouldn't try. And, above all else, I don't think we would do worse in making actual armor.

Mab, one of the highest hitters in the universe, when going all out (if with little to no ritualistic preparation) rolls 20 dice with an additional UMI effect when doing social combat. Assuming Charity is as good at crafting as Mab is at social combat, math checks out that we'd be at least as good.
valkyries seem to have a minor intellectus that tells them of the deaths and deeds of heroic mortals death in battle. So Odin probably does.
 
Preparations make a big difference. That was everything she had at hand, at that moment. Difference between "just" activating all social charms you got on a short notice, and truly preparing everything you got could easily be 10-15 dice.
True. Still, I feel putting Charity in this dicepool range should be a reasonable guesstimate, assuming she is using some form of mysticism.

I still feel that the probability of us disturbing Charity's workings are low enough that we should attempt collaboration. We don't have any evidence that she observes any specific rituals that would be disturbed by our presence, and in general exalted could collaborate with pretty much anyone they wanted.

I think we could afford to buy at least Alchemy 2, maybe Alchemy 3 this purchase turn. That would give us more actions per day (the "sleep one hour per week with no consequences" potion is 2 dots), and at 3 we start making magical materials (that give inherent magical armor protection).
 
I was speaking about social combat with Mab?
Yes, I understand. I used Mab going all out in social combat with no(t much) prep. time as a reference point to how good Charity could likely be in crafting MIchaei's armor.

As to Mab, she probably has something like Demonic Primacy of Essence which applies to fae / winter fae, might have WHWH analog, and almost certainly has an IPM analog (susceptible to Nemesis corruption, though).
 
There are a lot of questers, who advocate spending XP on the Sorcery Paths. But how will it work, narratively? Our merit is centered around Ancient Sorcery, rather than Linear one.
 
There are a lot of questers, who advocate spending XP on the Sorcery Paths. But how will it work, narratively? Our merit is centered around Ancient Sorcery, rather than Linear one.
I would guess adaptation of our remembered ancient lore to modern state of the world. Maybe remembering ancient mortal magic / thaumaturgical rituals. Maybe a function of our crown, to reconstruct the ancient memories into something applicable.
 
Back
Top