Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Yeah it was a surprise for everyone I'm also not saying let it Fester but the white Council does have the ability to purge mind control Arthur himself showed mind magic skill in front of us. Them knowing and the enemy not knowing and not having a communication advantage and not having a first mover advantage would have been a pretty decisive blow right from the start.
Considering that things got as far as they did right under their noses, including subverting the wards of their headquarters to allow in demons (I doubt that sort of change could be made last minute), I wouldn't assume that things would've been handled in such an ideal way. I wouldn't be surprised if the HM would have figured out that he was caught one way or another and set things off early anyway.
 
I really think it's more important to establish a person connection before we ask her to help us with stuff. At minimum we should address the topic and tension of the discussion to make our position clear. Right now a worried mind could easily take silence on the issue as hedging our bets.

Even if we do think she might go bad, which is still possible, treating her that way is foolish. Any actions or considerations of this type should happen where she can't see them if performed at all.
I agree on general principle, but on practicality, what do you propose? We need information about other three exalts, and we need it now. Unless you are willing to drop the point for the immediate future, which I didn't think you or others were ready for. So, what do we do? Using the recording of the scene as a focus would be more damaging long term to our relationship, I think.
 
I agree on general principle, but on practicality, what do you propose? We need information about other three exalts, and we need it now. Unless you are willing to drop the point for the immediate future, which I didn't think you or others were ready for. So, what do we do? Using the recording of the scene as a focus would be more damaging long term to our relationship, I think.
We spend another round to leave a good impression of Molly and ignore Lara's attempts to end everything. We offer help and press that there are others like her who need help. We show that we are here first and foremost to help cope with the problem. We turn on anti-interrupting responses so that we are not interrupted. And finally, we promise to help further with the Situation.

Aka we ask, but we do it in as much detail as possible and help as much as we can.
 
Considering that things got as far as they did right under their noses, including subverting the wards of their headquarters to allow in demons (I doubt that sort of change could be made last minute), I wouldn't assume that things would've been handled in such an ideal way. I wouldn't be surprised if the HM would have figured out that he was caught one way or another and set things off early anyway.
I don't think the wards were subverted to allow that. On the basis that all of them were white Council Wizards so they have clearance to summon inside of white Council headquarters so they don't need to subvert the wards to do that. We know that summoning demons is a thing that white council wizards are allowed to do even if it is frowned upon.

I'm not sure how the hollow man could find out as his main way of getting information at all was through Peabody who was looking for his own compromise actors and it's not invisible when he's doing that so he can't just spy on an individual senior Council to individual senior council member talks as they would be able to tell someone is using magic to listen in.
That's when you see it out of the corner of your eye, a dark glean in Tina Trailman's eye that isn't her, isn't any magic of hers. Nemesis! The inner warning screams at you at once, but no, that thing would not stand revealed to mundane sight, no matter how your senses may sing in the cold air. Something, someone else is looking through the kid to see how you fight, someone who hadn't been there before.
so maybe he would have some way of finding out but I'm pretty sure at the the very least they wouldn't have such an overwhelming first mover advantage nor the element of surprise.
 
I don't think the wards were subverted to allow that. On the basis that all of them were white Council Wizards so they have clearance to summon inside of white Council headquarters so they don't need to subvert the wards to do that. We know that summoning demons is a thing that white council wizards are allowed to do even if it is frowned upon.
No.
Well it's more that they have been intentionally sabotaged, but yeah at the moment Hell appears to have a free pass, you might not. Though given what you are...

Hey in a roundabout way this means Ancient Mai does not think Molly is a Yama King. Progress :V


I'm not sure how the hollow man could find out as his main way of getting information at all was through Peabody who was looking for his own compromise actors and it's not invisible when he's doing that so he can't just spy on an individual senior Council to individual senior council member talks as they would be able to tell someone is using magic to listen in
I don't care to debate it. They inspired no trust in me with what the HM and co managed to get away with in their own house.
 
We spend another round to leave a good impression of Molly and ignore Lara's attempts to end everything. We offer help and press that there are others like her who need help. We show that we are here first and foremost to help cope with the problem. We turn on anti-interrupting responses so that we are not interrupted. And finally, we promise to help further with the Situation.

Aka we ask, but we do it in as much detail as possible and help as much as we can.
Yes, ok, sure. How do we get information on the locations of others abyssals?
 
I don't care to debate it. They inspired no trust in me with what the HM and co managed to get away with in their own house.
Yeah that's fine again I don't mind and I don't particularly care to argue the hypothetical Point any further I was just saying to bronze tongue Claiming they only survived because of us when we thoroughly fuck them hardcore as far as positioning goes is not right.

It's not like they didn't know that there were traitors or they weren't on the trail of figuring them out already we just made it so no one was in any position to do anything when the traitors got exposed.
 
Both sides got screwed over is the most accurate way of stating it.
True true.
Anyway on to something a bit more pertinent to the scene at hand.
Yes, ok, sure. How do we get information on the locations of others abyssals?
We can just ask the question on the scene where are the other exalted of this form or type Inari might have her vision active but she has no way of contextualizing what she's seeing
"She's doing something, I can see the power swirling like miasma."
Yes, she can see the motes being burned up in your anima.
She can only see the expenditure so just asking a question on the scene would be fine.
 
I'd like to try reaching out to Silver in a more personal way and make a point about the difference between our opinions and the council's.

[X] Plan Act of Faith
-[X] Invite Silver Phantom to participate in our search for the others if she wants to.
-[X] [Stunt]: Nodding to Lydia in solidarity, Molly turned to the rest of the room.
—[X] A poisonous sort of heat welled up in Molly's voice, echoing her frustration. "I would like to make something clear."
—-[X] "My purpose here is not to threaten anyone. Nor to interrogate, to subjugate, or dictate terms. It would be a lie to say that I do not fear potential harm someone like us could do, but no one in this room has the right to doubt the potential good in us either". The unspoken 'not after what I have done for you' hung in the silence like a lead weight.
—[X] Turning to the newly styled Silver Phantom Molly catches their eyes with her own, her tone softening as she continues. "I don't know what all of this means, but I believe it makes us something to each other". A dry sort of smile darts across her face "If nothing else, we're going to be sharing this world for a very long time and I'd like it to be as friends"
—[X] "If things were different perhaps this conversation would be different, but you as much as anyone else deserve to be seen for who you are and not the choices others fear you might make".

Thinking about how to cap it off*, but this is already a bit long for a stunt. May be better to just leave it.

The idea is to make a personal appeal, clearly divide our approach from the council's, and instead of asking for a bit of assistance before leaving inviting her involvement as a friend. Maybe she just chooses to help us and then go home, but the substance of the offer matters I think.

Might need some tuning to move towards reaching out in friendship over the current setup, could use some feedback on that.

I don't like how this essentially drives a bit of a wedge between us and the council, even if it's a small one, but LtW is causing us a problem here. We brought him in on this, we made a promise at the door when his presence was questioned. Lydia's outburst helps, but Molly lead this excursion and to an extent by not making a point of the distinction we're implicitly signing on to his messaging**.

* Including a jab about who in this room exactly has a good track record as a judge of character. Cause last I checked Lara and Listens-To-Wind are not the ones picking Outsiders out of our hair.

** As an aside, I personally don't blame him for his opinions on this. The issue is that you should almost always at least try to reach out and never, ever, show a target the knife in advance in situations like this.

I agree on general principle, but on practicality, what do you propose? We need information about other three exalts, and we need it now. Unless you are willing to drop the point for the immediate future, which I didn't think you or others were ready for. So, what do we do? Using the recording of the scene as a focus would be more damaging long term to our relationship, I think.
Thoughts on approach in the rest of this post?
 
[X] Plan Act of Faith
-[X] Invite Silver Phantom to participate in our search for the others if she wants to.
-[X] [Stunt]: Nodding to Lydia in solidarity, Molly turned to the rest of the room.
—[X] A poisonous sort of heat welled up in Molly's voice, echoing her frustration. "I would like to make something clear."
—-[X] "My purpose here is not to threaten anyone. Nor to interrogate, to subjugate, or dictate terms. It would be a lie to say that I do not fear potential harm someone like us could do, but no one in this room has the right to doubt the potential good in us either". The unspoken 'not after what I have done for you' hung in the silence like a lead weight.
—[X] Turning to the newly styled Silver Phantom Molly catches their eyes with her own, her tone softening as she continues. "I don't know what all of this means, but I believe it makes us something to each other". A dry sort of smile darts across her face "If nothing else, we're going to be sharing this world for a very long time and I'd like it to be as friends"
—[X] "If things were different perhaps this conversation would be different, but you as much as anyone else deserve to be seen for who you are and not the choices others fear you might make".

Definitely this. My reason for voting for the previous winning vote was for the bit of offering faith and a hand in friendship, but that got interrupted. I am all for getting that out there before we leave.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Feb 26, 2025 at 7:19 PM, finished with 42 posts and 7 votes.

  • [X] Plan Act of Faith
    -[X] Invite Silver Phantom to participate in our search for the others if she wants to.
    -[X] [Stunt]: Nodding to Lydia in solidarity, Molly turned to the rest of the room.
    —[X] A poisonous sort of heat welled up in Molly's voice, echoing her frustration. "I would like to make something clear."
    —-[X] "My purpose here is not to threaten anyone. Nor to interrogate, to subjugate, or dictate terms. It would be a lie to say that I do not fear potential harm someone like us could do, but no one in this room has the right to doubt the potential good in us either". The unspoken 'not after what I have done for you' hung in the silence like a lead weight.
    —[X] Turning to the newly styled Silver Phantom Molly catches their eyes with her own, her tone softening as she continues. "I don't know what all of this means, but I believe it makes us something to each other". A dry sort of smile darts across her face "If nothing else, we're going to be sharing this world for a very long time and I'd like it to be as friends"
    —[X] "If things were different perhaps this conversation would be different, but you as much as anyone else deserve to be seen for who you are and not the choices others fear you might make".
    [X] You could use her help finding the others if she's up to it
    -[X] If she agrees, use the Crown on her bloody tears to find other abyssal exalts
    -[X] STUNT: "I am sure he will love the title, Phantom, and if you need exalted backup when talking to him, I would be glad to help." you say, the newly formed title slipping easily past your lips, the whimsical optimism of superheroics dear to your American heart: "For now, though, I have to ask you for your first superhero act - three more are black shards loosed upon the world, and yours have spent a lot of time with them. Would you focus the search, so we can find other exalted?"
 
It occurs to me that with five solaroid exaltations out and about it means that there are connections to five lunar exaltations that exist. Something that someone with skill in tracking stuff based off of connections, such as Harry, could use to find them.

We still don't have reason to be aware of that though. That's a bit frustrating.
 
So nobody thinks my plan is too aggressive? I stand by the argument I made in the original post, and honestly I feel like this sort of comment would press Molly's buttons:

"Merely a statement." The old wizard says, though he continues in a tone unhappy as it is implacable. "The Council is older than the Accords, it wasn't founded to keep the secret, but keep the world of the every day safe from evil things. Highest among that charge is to guard against Those of Hell and Those Beyond the Gates and Those Below. What guarantee do we have here and now? Your word Mrs Raith?"
"Lydia Rhys your heart's in the right place, but I've heard this talk from too many others. We stand now knowing little even you and Mrs Carpenter, even her..." He tilts his head in diffany's direction, one of the bags on his belt jingles faintly. "Though it might be better that knowledge isn't relevant. All we have not is a guess, a gamble. Your power we know..."

He's making the same sort of judgements of someone else that she's been fighting against since she exalted. Talking about the council's judgement and responsibilities when not even a month ago he implicitly trusted how many warlocks highly placed in his government? After being saved by someone he'd have been wary of on the same basis he is now.


That said; he's not actually wrong to treat Abyssals as horrible news over all, and deliberately rebuking his position in front of others is a diplomatic step back from people we've worked hard to get close to. It shouldn't be a serious issue in my estimation, but it's one worth considering.

I could see the argument that a softer approach would be more efficient.
 
I could see the argument that a softer approach would be more efficient
Nah. Fuck em. Should've let us continue taking the lead on this and reserve judgement while observing the approach of the closest thing to an Exalted expert in the room. Greater years of experience aside he literally doesn't know what he's talking about. Molly said that she's done nothing to warrant suspicion and he immediately drew our statement into question.

[X] Plan Act of Faith
 
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That said; he's not actually wrong to treat Abyssals as horrible news over all, and deliberately rebuking his position in front of others is a diplomatic step back from people we've worked hard to get close to. It shouldn't be a serious issue in my estimation, but it's one worth considering.

I could see the argument that a softer approach would be more efficient.
Well, I think I've stated my position in detail. But let's think about politics... We are actually guilty and asked for help and so on, minus to Molly. But we are immediately trying to fix everything and politically we are now exchanging one of the senior members of the council for Lara and most importantly Silver Phantom. The risk is that we will make an enemy among the white Council. Against the risk that we will fuck up the 3 remaining Abyssals and will not be able to pull them over to Molly's side. And that Lara will become more hostile and she will have every chance to get a completely loyal ally of Abyssal. I think the exchange is more than reasonable. There are risks, but I am more afraid of botch than the reaction of the Listens-to-Wind
 
Vote closed. Lets see if you can pull this off.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Feb 27, 2025 at 11:15 AM, finished with 50 posts and 11 votes.

  • [X] Plan Act of Faith
    -[X] Invite Silver Phantom to participate in our search for the others if she wants to.
    -[X] [Stunt]: Nodding to Lydia in solidarity, Molly turned to the rest of the room.
    —[X] A poisonous sort of heat welled up in Molly's voice, echoing her frustration. "I would like to make something clear."
    —-[X] "My purpose here is not to threaten anyone. Nor to interrogate, to subjugate, or dictate terms. It would be a lie to say that I do not fear potential harm someone like us could do, but no one in this room has the right to doubt the potential good in us either". The unspoken 'not after what I have done for you' hung in the silence like a lead weight.
    —[X] Turning to the newly styled Silver Phantom Molly catches their eyes with her own, her tone softening as she continues. "I don't know what all of this means, but I believe it makes us something to each other". A dry sort of smile darts across her face "If nothing else, we're going to be sharing this world for a very long time and I'd like it to be as friends"
    —[X] "If things were different perhaps this conversation would be different, but you as much as anyone else deserve to be seen for who you are and not the choices others fear you might make".
    [X] You could use her help finding the others if she's up to it
    -[X] If she agrees, use the Crown on her bloody tears to find other abyssal exalts
    -[X] STUNT: "I am sure he will love the title, Phantom, and if you need exalted backup when talking to him, I would be glad to help." you say, the newly formed title slipping easily past your lips, the whimsical optimism of superheroics dear to your American heart: "For now, though, I have to ask you for your first superhero act - three more are black shards loosed upon the world, and yours have spent a lot of time with them. Would you focus the search, so we can find other exalted?"
 
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