Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

You are misinformed. You need to read chapter 24-25 of Death Masks again.

Every half-blood literally has to live in the knowledge that if they lose control once, they fall off the wagon and Change.
They cant have families or close relationships, because sex will almost certainly result in the death of their partner and their change into a full Red. Its a constant struggle for them.

They cant even stay in the same room indefinitely with open blood because its a major temptation.
We have seen Susan twice almost kill Dresden in canon, once in each book she appeared.
I limped to the icebox, which was going to need more ice before long. I didn't have the leftover energy to freeze the water again by magic. I grabbed two cans of Coca-Cola, opened them both, and took one to Susan. She took a long guzzle and I joined her.
"You're limping," she said when she was done.
I looked down at my feet. "Only one shoe. It makes me lopsided."
"You're hurt," she said. Her eyes were fastened on my leg. "Bleeding."
"It isn't too bad. I'll clean it up in a minute."
Susan's eyes never wavered, but they got darker. Her voice grew quieter. "Do you need help?"
I turned a bit warily so that she couldn't see the injured leg. She shivered and made an evident effort to look away. The tattoos on her face were lighter now-not fainter, but changing in colors. "I'm sorry. Harry, I'm sorry, but I'd better go."
"You can't," I said.
Her voice remained very quiet, very toneless. "You don't get it. I'll explain everything to you in a little while. I promise. But I have to leave."

I cleared my throat. "Um. No, you don't get it. You can't. Cannot. Literally."
"What?"
"The defenses I put up have two sides and they don't have an off switch. We literally, physically can't leave until they go down."
Susan looked up at me and then folded her arms, staring at her Coke can. "Crud," she said. "How long?"
I shook my head. "I built them to run for about eight hours. Sunrise is going to degrade it a little though. Maybe four hours, five at the most."
"Five hours," she said under her breath. "Oh, God."
"What's wrong?"
She waved a hand vaguely. "I've been - been using some of the power. To be faster. Stronger. If I'm calm, it doesn't get stirred up. But I haven't been calm. It's built up inside of me. Water on a dam. It wants to break free, to get loose."
I licked my lips. If Susan lost control of herself, there was no place to run. "What can I do to help?"
She shook her head, refusing to look up at me. "I don't know. Let me have some quiet. Try to relax." Something cold and hungry flickered in her eyes. "Get your leg cleaned up. I can smell it. It's - distracting."

"See if you can build the fire," I said, and slipped into my room, closing the door behind me. I went into the bathroom and closed that door too. My first-aid kit had its own spot on one of the shelves. I downed a couple of Tylenol, slipped out of the remains of my rented tux, and cleaned up the cut on my leg. It was a shallow cut, but a good four inches long, and it had bled messily. I used disinfectant soap with cold water to wash it out, then slathered it in an antibacterial gel before laying several plastic bandages over the injury, to hold it closed. It didn't hurt. Or at least I didn't pick it out from the background of aches and pains my body was telling me about.
Shivering again, I climbed into some sweats, a T-shirt, and a flannel bathrobe. I looked around in my closet, at a couple of the other things I'd made for a rainy day. I took one of the potions I'd brewed, the ones to counter the venom of the Red Court, and put it in my pocket. I missed my shield bracelet.
I opened the door to the living room and Susan was standing six inches away, her eyes black with no white to them, the designs on her skin flushed a dark maroon.
"I can still smell your blood," she whispered. "I think you need to find a way to hold me back, Harry. And you need to do it now."
"Susan," I said quietly. "Give me your hands."
She opened her eyes and looked at the soft, fine rope. "That won't hold me."
"I made it in case an ogre I pissed off came visiting. Give me your hands."
She was silent for a moment. Then she shrugged out of her jacket, and held her hands out, wrists up.
I tossed the rope at her and whispered, "Manacus."
I'd enchanted the rope six months before, but I'd done it right. It took barely a whisper of power to set the rope into motion. It whipped into the air, silver threads flashing, and bound itself around her wrists in neat loops.
Susan reacted instantly, going completely tense. I saw her set herself and strain against the ropes. I waited, watching for a full half a minute before she started shaking and stopped trying to break them. She let out a shaking breath, her head bowed, hair fallen around her face. I started to move toward her, when she stood up, legs spread enough to brace herself firmly, and tried again, lifting her arms.
I licked my lips, watching. I didn't think she'd break the ropes, but I'd underestimated people before. Her face, her too-black eyes scared me. She strained against the ropes again, the movement drawing her shirt up, showing me her smooth brown stomach, the winding swirls and barbs of her tattoo red and stark against her skin. There were dark bruises over her ribs, and patches of skin that had been scraped raw. She hadn't come away from our tumble from Martin's car without being hurt, after all.
After a minute more, she hissed out a breath and sat down, hair a tumbled mess around her face. I could feel her eyes on me more than I could actually see them. They didn't feel like Susan's eyes anymore. The tattoos stood out against her skin, red as blood. I backed off, again deliberately, calmly, and got the first aid kit out of the bathroom.
When I came back out, she flung herself at me in blinding speed and utter silence. I'd been expecting as much, and snapped, "Forzare!"
The silver rope flashed with a glitter of blue light and darted toward the ceiling. Her wrists went with it and she was pulled completely from the floor. Her feet swung up, and she twisted, again in silence, fighting the bonds on her. She didn't get free, and I let her swing there until her legs had settled again, her toes barely touching the floor.
She let out a quiet sob and whispered, "I'm sorry. Harry, I can't stop it."

"It's okay. I've got you." I stepped closer to examine the injuries on her midsection and winced. "God. You got torn up."
"I hate this. I'm so sorry."
It hurt me to hear her voice. There was enough pain in it for both of us. "Shhhh," I said. "Let me take care of you."
I climbed out of the hole, then over and around a couple of dump trucks' worth of rubble, and hurried over to Susan's side on the opposite end of the ring.
She lay limp and still. There were small cuts and bruises all over her. Her leather pants had hundreds of little holes in them—the shards of bone from the exploding vampire skull, I guessed. Her spine was bent and twisted. I couldn't tell how bad it was. I mean . . . Susan had always been fairly limber, and I had more reason to know than most. With her entire body limp like that, it was hard to say.
She was breathing, and her tattoos were still there, now bright scarlet. Her pulse was far too slow, and I wasn't sure it was steady. I leaned down and peeled back one eyelid.
Her eyes were black, all the way through.
I licked my lips. The tattoos were a warning indicator the Fellowship used. As Susan's vampire nature gained more influence over her actions, the tattoos appeared, solid black at first, but lightening to bright red as the vampire within gained more control. Susan wasn't conscious, but if she had been, she would have been insane with bloodlust. She'd nearly killed me the last time it had happened.

It was sort of what had started this whole mess, in fact.
Her body was covered in injuries of various sizes, and I thought I knew what was happening. It was instinctively drawing upon the vampire portion of her nature to restore her damaged flesh—but as she had not provided that nature with sustenance, it could offer her only limited assistance.
She needed blood.
But if she got it, woke up, and decided that she just had to have more . . . yikes.
Her breathing kept slowing. It caught for a moment, and I nearly panicked.
Then I shook my head, took my penknife from my duster's pocket, and opened a cut in my left palm, in an area where the old burn scars were thickest, and which still didn't have a lot of sensitivity.
I cupped my hand while I bled into my palm. Then, very carefully, I reached down and tipped my palm to carefully spill a few drops into Susan's mouth.
You would have thought I'd just run a current of electricity through her body. She quivered, went rigid, and then arched her back into a bow. Strange popping sounds came from her spine. Her empty black eyes opened and she gasped, then stared blindly, trying to find my hand again with her mouth, the way a suckling baby finds its meals. I held my hand over her mouth and let the blood trickle in slowly.
She surged in languid motion beneath my hand, savoring the blood as if it were chocolate, a massage, good sex, and a new car all rolled into one. Two minutes of slow, dreamy, arching motion later, her eyes suddenly focused on me and then narrowed. She snatched at my arm with her hands—and I drove my right fist into her face.
I didn't pull the punch, either. If her darker nature was allowed to continue, it would destroy her, killing me as a by-product of the process. Her head snapped back against the ground, and she blinked her eyes, stunned.
I stood up, took a few steps back, and stuffed my injured hand into my pocket. I was tired, and feeling shocky. My whole arm felt cold. I didn't stop falling back until I was sure I could shield in time to hold her off if she came at me.
I recognized it when Susan checked back in. Her breathing slowed, becoming controlled and steady. It took her four or five minutes of focus to push her darker self away from control, but eventually she did. She sat up slowly. She licked at her bloodstained lips and shuddered in slow ecstasy for a second before dashing her sleeve across her mouth and forcing herself to her feet. She looked around wildly, a terrible dread in her eyes—until she spotted me.
She stared at me for a moment, and then closed her eyes. She whispered, "Thank God."

I nodded to her and beckoned for her to stand at my side.
I waited until she reached me. Then we both turned to face the Erlking.
When they had sex in Death Masks, Dresden had to tie her up with magical rope and avoid her front because she would have killed him otherwise. When she lost control in Changes, Winter Knight Harry had to punch her in the face full-strength to hold her back

And the one time that she lost control without anyone there to help her, she became a Red.

There's a reason why someone like Martin has Willpower 8.
Thats what it requires to not fall to temptation for that long
No I'm not misremembering I know that they have intense Cravings that are literally half a hair away from doing them in. I also know that it takes an hour and five Essence to fix one of them.

Their condition can be moderated by avoiding combat having a full stomach and staying the fuck away from other people which can literally be done in any Monastery in South America or any flat plain in South America or any forest in South America or any isolated place in the world on any boat on any vessel where there are just not that many other people just limiting contact with other people and not getting into situations where there's a lot of loose blood would be enough to manage their condition.

I'm not saying it's nice I'm not saying it's good I'm saying that they can live like that for an indeterminate amount of time. In the time it takes us to fix one of them a bunch of them can be made if they cannot help expedite the conflict with the red Court then we would never be able to finish fixing them they would always be more half Reds they are literally a symptom of a problem if they cannot help us fix the source then we will never be able to stop cleansing them and if we doing it for free we are wasting our time.

Opportunity costs exist our Essence is not actually free nor our willpower or our time. Not to mention the fact that every time it cleansed one of them our disguise would fall we would be signaling to everyone in South or Central America that we are here every time we fixed one of their membership.

If they cannot in any way materially help the situation with the red court or affect how much time that we have on hand to assist them then assisting them is at an active detriment to our overarching goals of defeating the red court or protecting reality every hour and five Essence we spend on them is better spent elsewhere if they cannot provide any level of assistance.

That's not even a joke on some level even if we very specifically decided to just take to the field and go to location after location after location of red Court assets and Destroy Everything while taking on a non-human disguise it might cost less than five Essence and it would definitely take less than an hour even if we didn't meet any of their Dukes even if we didn't meet any of their nobility it would still be materially better for the entire situation involving to half Reds to do that then help them 1 hour and five Essence at a time.

As every red Court vampire can make more of them. They are a symptom of a greater issue a symptom that is very specifically one that can be pressed into remission rather than needing active management.
 
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The members of the Fellowship of St. Giles are either opposed to the Red Court because they're a horrible force of evil that needs to be opposed, or because they're circumstances have stripped them of options to the point that they're forced to do so. There's room for overlap, but those are the options.

If we cure them of the curse that they are suffering, then we remove the big thing shaping their options. At that point it would be oppose the Red Court either because they think it should be opposed, or be forced into opposing the Red Court because Molly is making you.

The ones that want to oppose the Red Court can be brought under our authority, and are likely to all but beg us to join in anyway. We can negotiate whatever arrangement we want with them at that point.
I don't want us holding their only hope over the heads of those who want out, and forcing them to fight the fight that they don't want to be a part of. We can work to minimize it, but it's an inherent part of them being made to work for us in exchange for the cure. They don't have a choice, and we'd be exploiting that.
I would agree with this except for the fact that they are all masquerade breaches. Every single one of them if they are fixed they are dead the second it is discovered that they are not half Reds. There is no life for them outside of facial reconstruction surgery or disappearing to another continent.

They have to fight the red Court otherwise the red Court will kill them immediately because as far as their concerned they're one traitors two masquerade breaches.

This isn't like the families of those random blood slaves that Ariana had this is people that were specifically turned into essentially Childers of the red Court kindred. They know too much, they've seen too much unless these people intend on never stepping foot in any place where the red court has any level of sway which is most of the planet at this point they have to fight otherwise they will die.

There's nothing stopping us from performing exorcism on the peace lovers for the people who do not wish to fight there is something stopping us from ever levying a cost for our assistance in the future. If you make your terms up front you can provide generous allowances in those terms if you try to change them later you're an oath breaker. It is better to State a cost up front and make it evident in plain and then provide essentially an out to their membership than it is to say that this service is free.
 
I don't want us holding their only hope over the heads of those who want out, and forcing them to fight the fight that they don't want to be a part of. We can work to minimize it, but it's an inherent part of them being made to work for us in exchange for the cure.
It's pretty clear at this point that people have very different views on what we'd even be asking for.
 
It's not about what we'd be asking. It's that we'd be asking anything at all.
So what exactly is the plan because essentially if we don't ask them for anything then we can perform essentially 12 exorcisms per day total and that will take up our entire Essence pool and we won't be able to do anything else except regen in between. If this is even a fraction of their membership I would be deeply pleasantly surprised. Then they would all die but that's a different discussion.

They need to do something simply because it is not sustainable for us to be the source of this not for free if we cannot stem the tide of half Reds then we will literally never be able to cleanse even a minor portion of their membership.

The opportunity cost becomes negligent to indulge at a certain point how many hours are these particular individuals worth rather than pursuing the people that made them what they are?

They are directly in competition and directly they are symptom of the second group which means every hour spent on them but not spent on the other is allowing more people to end up in their situation.

It's a situation where there's an open wound and we're essentially applying a bandage rather than sewing the wound shut if they cannot assist in sowing the wound shut than they are essentially just one more laceration as far as the efforts to fix the issue goes.
 
It's literally something that they do already. They can provide us with what intel they already have and as they get it.



Molly did not decide for them to give us favors. They gave those to us for using it on highly valued Fae because that's how the Fae work. They didn't have a choice. If negotiating with anyone else Molly, the playerbase, have the option of asking for something else.

This is just a strawman argument.


It is factually different.



The Jade Dogs help keep the place she lives safe and the Last Station serves us and out Hand agents in several ways. Bad example.

This does not cost us very little if anything. Our goals align with their own as well what we'd ask for we'd benefit from mutually.

The bathroom comparison is wild. I'm not sure what to think after reading that.


That's depends on what we ask for and how it's arranged after the fact.


Or we can ask for that as a form of payment and they can provide us with intel without disclosing their sources to us just as we would tell people things without disclosing our sources.


Completely different context. I'm not of the opinion that we should always deal in goodwill. It depends on the situation and what's being asked of us.
1)No it isnt. They dont share information with people who they dont trust, because that puts at risk the methods and people by which they got that information, and that information is the only reason they are alive and effective. Just like Molly doesnt just share information received by the Crown.

That kind of access is earned by trust, not deals. Trust of both your goodwill, and your ability to keep their secrets.




2)Molly's opinion has nothing to do with the market price of SCE.
Just like a person's opinion of their house value has no bearing on how much the open market would be willing to pay for it.
The Fae were willing to pay Court favors for it, unprompted; that puts a floor on its value in the open market.


3) No it is not.
The details are different, the fundamentals are the same.



4)The Jade Dogs do nothing that Porter was not already doing.
Or a detachment of troops from Sanctuary, if we actually needed a mortal guard force.

Molly is currently sustaining more than a hundred people there at Last Station, as a charity and to deny others cheap troops to draw on in Chicago.
The Jade Dogs dont do anything directly for her, and she actually pays them, instead of the other way around.


5) We are actually supposed to be supplying them, rather than the other way around.




6) For a second, the Fellowship of St Giles are not only half-bloods, as evidenced by the presence of Hannah Ascher and when Susan attempted to recruit Harry. They cannot afford to devote most of their resources to catering for half bloods without causing friction with other members. This is Bad.


7) You cannot provide intelligence without giving indications about where the information came from.
If you are providing information about the Red King's diet, you are telling us that you have someone inside his household.
Thats why a lot of information is restricted IRL.

Just like part of the reason why Molly is so miserly with the Crown is because its hard to camoflage that it was gained by some sort of divination.




8) Goodwill is as a rule, more valuable to us than anything material most factions can offer.
There are places where it might be reasonable or justifiable to bargain for stuff and forms of payment.
This is not one of them.

Like I've previously pointed out?
Their value to Molly is as character witnesses to her good intentions to other supernaturals, and as an ongoing threat and distraction to the Red Court.

Molly literally has planetary access to Divination Path sorcerers as well as the Crown and an increasing network of cyberdevils.
She knows at least one wizard who does Divination. She can lay her hands on information about both the Red Court AND the Fellowship of St Giles if she chooses.
 
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Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Nov 12, 2024 at 9:01 PM, finished with 65 posts and 22 votes.

  • [X] Plan first one is free
    -[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    --[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
    --[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
    -[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
    [X] Still free, it will just take a while
    [X] Plan Slow and Steady, or Not
    -[X] Still free, it will just take a while
    -[X] Those who don't want to take a number, can purchase your free time.
    --[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    [X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    [X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    -[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."



Any other votes for Anaja's position would be appreciated
 
2)Molly's opinion has nothing to do with the market price of SCE.
This is just wrong she's the Singular Provider of the service she literally is the only opinion that matters on the market price of Sapphire Circle exorcism.
4)The Jade Dogs do nothing that Porter was not already doing.
Or a detachment of troops from Sanctuary, if we actually needed a mortal guard force.

Molly is currently sustaining more than a hundred people there at Last Station, as a charity and to deny others cheap troops to draw on in Chicago.
The Jade Dogs dont do anything directly for her, and she actually pays them, instead of the other way around.
For all intensive purposes and in actuality they are literally our servants they have sworn themselves into our service in the case of Isabella and Fitzgerald and the Jade dogs are literally our gang we are their lord we have a responsibility to look after them and in turn they have a responsibility to us we don't exercise it that often something because we haven't made any more inquiries into undercity but it is still present.
3) No it is not.
The details are different, the fundamentals are the same.
No this is completely out of pocket this is an insane example you are comparing essentially a selective surgery to needing to use the bathroom that's insane never mind the fact that we are the literally only person who can do that and we can only do 12 in a day if we do literally nothing else that is an insane example.

There's also the fact our time and our Essence and our willpower is not free we were generate a fixed amount of it at a time at any given time we make a specific amount of resources per hour every hour there is a distinct and sharp opportunity cost to helping these people in any noticeable fashion.
5) We are actually supposed to be supplying them, rather than the other way around.


6) For a second, the Fellowship of St Giles are not only half-bloods, as evidenced by the presence of Hannah Ascher and when Susan attempted to recruit Harry. They cannot afford to devote most of their resources to catering for half bloods without causing friction with other members. This is Bad
You seem to be forgetting we do not need them. If they provide literally nothing and create an opportunity cost that is purely negligent to indulge then we should focus on the root of the issue and come back to them later.

On the whole of it if they cannot provide any measurable Aid against the people that made them half Reds then literally anything we do to prepare with a full-on conflict with the red court is time better spent any one we kill from the red court is Essence better spent any spells we learn in preparation for the conflict with the red court is time better spent an hour and five Essence.

Molly literally has planetary access to Divination Path sorcerers as well as the Crown and an increasing network of cyberdevils.
She knows at least one wizard who does Divination. She can lay her hands on information about both the Red Court AND the Fellowship of St Giles if she chooses.
This comes back again to the fact we do not need them they are mostly Mortals. They were going to lose their lives against us when we were Essence two and bumming around in Central America why do you think giving them more information would help them they're literally 10-piece chicken mcfucking nobodies no amount of information would let them lay low the red Court.

You are insane if you think that we need them for any reason if they cannot provide anything then we should come back for them later because literally it's a problem that cannot be solved until we come back to them later.
 
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In order.

1) It is. They carry out operations against the Red Court. This requires that they gather information on their activities and whereabouts when and where they can. They can give intel without disclosing methods of retrieval.

Just like Molly disclosed information derived by the Crown to the White Council without telling them of her Crown usage.

2) The Fae are bound to deal in certain ways. Molly is free to make whatever offer she feels like to the Fellowship. The Fellowship isn't Fae. Strawman argument.

3) In one instance we used it on a single child who it would've been entirely unreasonable to ask anything of. In the other instance we'd be deciding to do so for free for X individuals going forward which would require an entirely different cost to us and they are capable of giving us recompense even if it was only intel that they already have and procure on their own even before we showed up. It's factually different.

4-5) Porter is a single spirit and he's been disabled before. He isn't invincible. The Jade Dogs help keep the Last station our, Dragon Nest and base of operations on earth, secure as well as Chicago by proxy. Both of which actively benefit Molly. This was decided on before the Five Courts existed.

6) Devote most of their resources? I have no idea what your talking about. I've tried to clarify my position so as to not talk past each other but you keep going on about this so clearly there is still some level of misunderstanding.

7) We have given people Crown derived information before. They can tell us what they feel doesn't put their assets at unacceptable levels of risk.

8) I disagree that this isn't one of them. Such means are much more accurate when you have more intel to operate on to begin with. Like when we gather more info to better aim the Crown.

Edit: multiple errors
 
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[X] Still free, it will just take a while

Harry can learn the spell which will be fun.
Harry can cast the spell once per day or he could cast literal world changing magic once per day the magnitude and the comparisons of usefulness of making someone who is near mortal into a complete mortal versus being able to release a firestorm onto a compound full of nobility of the red Court write themselves.
 
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[X] Still free, it will just take a while

Even beyond it being the right thing to do, I agree with Uju that they are likely to share most if not all intel that would be of interest to us of their own accord. Furthermore it is very IC for Molly to try and save people from a horrific fate if it is within her power and from an OOC perspective we can afford to be magnanimous, we shouldn't dedicate all our time to this because there is other stuff we need to do to but we do not have anything preventing us from spending time exorcising half-reds when we have the opportunity to do so.
 
This is just wrong she's the Singular Provider of the service she literally is the only opinion that matters on the market price of Sapphire Circle exorcism
There's this too. Nobody else has any bargaining power here because nobody else is selling this service. That means Molly can set the market price as something unreasonable like the Moon, for free at no cost to the buyer(s), or something in between those two extremes, catered to whomever is asking for it.
 
[X] Plan first one is free
-[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
--[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
--[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
-[X][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
 
Harry can learn the spell which will be fun.
Important point - no, he cannot:
Can Study (Terrestrial) Ancient Sorcery
What circle is the exorcism spell?
Celestial unfortunately, that is why it's called Sapphire Exorcism, it requires not just the power to shape essence but the authority of the Celestial Exalted (or the Gods in their own spheres)
Only exalts can do this.

Further compounding the issue is that we have to have a healer on hand for the process, as it inflicts 10 dice of lethal damage on the target - something that a normal mortal just cannot survive.
Harry can cast the spell once per day or he could cast literal world changing magic once per day the magnitude and the comparisons of usefulness of making someone who is near mortal into a complete mortal versus being able to release a firestorm onto a compound full of nobility of the red Court write themselves.
Harry can't cast it at all sadly. Not unless he gets the sidereal exaltation or something.

Also, @DragonParadox can you tell us rough estimation on their numbers? Ie how large a commitment this is? Are there 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000, 100000 half-reds for us to treat?
 
One thing I want to point out in this debate about if we should ask a price or not:

Uju has used the argument that it isn't IC for Molly to do that several times.

I just want to remind that this particular point is false, we have already been over this for a previous vote not that long ago: all of the base options are IC.

And I think one of the big disconnect is the idea of how much we would ask even if Anaja said it was about the principle of the thing. As Boredman said, the language used in their post makes me think we would be asking for unreasonable things.

I don't know for all the voters, but I want to ask for things like *good relations with your organization* or *some information about our mutual enemy, the red court*.

As I said, token favors to make the pill pass better instead of having a good chunk of the hierarchy search for the hidden cost.

Because that is what I see it as, a move to reassure, not to extract favors.

Edit:

In the comparison to a billionaire asking you for something to heal you, I want to ask for a single cent to make you not feel in debt.
 
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500-2000 are the approximations Molly has heard
Yeah, at this scale mentioning and bringing in other options becomes important. Assuming 2 per day, which is an upper boundary estimation, and certainly should cost an AP each turn, that's a year long commitment at minimum. Making an automatic Exorcism device becomes much cheaper, in terms of action economy, even if we have to hunt for reagents ourselves, which we shouldn't.

MiS also becomes important too. We gave Isabela control of her hunger in the midst of initiation, where it should have been overwhelming, we should give half Reds some relief with it. And this means that we need them to be paying us in service. That's how the charm was.
I don't know for all the voters, but I want to ask for things like *good relations with your organization* or *some information about our mutual enemy, the red court*.

As I said, token favors to make the pill pass better instead of having a good chunk of the hierarchy search for the hidden cost.
This. And also likely things to make MiS trigger
 
[X] Plan first one is free
-[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
--[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
--[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
-[X][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
 
Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Nov 13, 2024 at 1:56 AM, finished with 80 posts and 27 votes.

  • [X] Plan first one is free
    -[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    --[X] Pending other more mass-producible options, of which there might be several, but which either require testing, or expensive and hard to get reagents to setup.
    --[X] As one of the options... Fetch me some napkins, please.
    -[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
    [X] Still free, it will just take a while
    [X] Plan Slow and Steady, or Not
    -[X] Still free, it will just take a while
    -[X] Those who don't want to take a number, can purchase your free time.
    --[X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    [X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    [X] The Fellowship has skills, knowledge, you could do with the help while setting up your operations on Earth
    -[x][Stunt]"An hour of my time is becoming a more valuable commodity constantly. I have many other things that I want and need to do and many people that I am responsible for."
 
In order.

1) It is. They carry out operations against the Red Court. This requires that they gather information on their activities and whereabouts when and where they can. They can give intel without disclosing methods of retrieval.

Just like Molly disclosed information derived by the Crown to the White Council without telling them of her Crown usage.

2) The Fae are bound to deal in certain ways. Molly is free to make whatever offer she feels like to the Fellowship. The Fellowship isn't Fae. Strawman argument.

3) In one instance we used it on a single child who it would've been entirely unreasonable to ask anything of. In the other instance we'd be deciding to do so for free for X individuals going forward which would require an entirely different cost to us and they are capable of giving us recompense even if it was only intel that they already have and procure on their own even before we showed up. It's factually different.

4-5) Porter is a single spirit and he's been disabled before. He isn't invincible. The Jade Dogs help keep the Last station our, Dragon Nest and base of operations on earth, secure as well as Chicago by proxy. Both of which actively benefit Molly. This was decided on before the Five Courts existed.

6) Devote most of their resources? I have no idea what your talking about. I've tried to clarify my position so as to not talk past each other but you keep going on about this so clearly there is still some level of misunderstanding.

7) We have given people Crown derived information before. They can tell us what they feel doesn't put their assets at unacceptable levels of risk.

8) I disagree that this isn't one of them. Such means are much more accurate when you have more intel to operate on to begin with. Like when we gather more info to better aim the Crown.

Edit: multiple errors
In order

1) They carry out operations against the Red Court, but they dont swing at the big dogs. They do outreach to halfbloods and try to expose Red Court operations where they would be forced to stop. Their terminal sanction targets are generally street and middle management. The highest we know they have ever tried was for Paolo Ortega.

And their penetration is nowhere as good as you appear to think.

Notably, they didnt hear a peep about when and where Maggie was kidnapped to in Changes, they had no idea why Chitchen Itza was planned, nor did they have any idea that the Red Court was going to wipe them out in Changes until they started having HQs and safehouses hit by kill teams.


2) Exactly.
She has no reason to charge them anything at all for this. She has no need to charge them anything for this, and it actively degrades their capabilities against a mutual enemy. Not to mention the social effects.



3) No its not.
Its like offering a Third World country excess COVID-19 vaccines that you would otherwise have to throw away, but insisting they pay US retail prices for it. Its a dick move IMO.


4-5)The only thing that disabled Porter was a greater akuma with preptime, and it roflstomped the Jade Dogs as well.
And we didnt have to rescue Porter.

Nothing that gets past Porter is even going to be slowed by the Jade Dogs.
And we could have moved the Jade Dogs to Sanctuary if we wanted to and replaced them with actual professional Sanctuary troops with military hardware.

We didnt because the Jade Dogs arent here at Last Station for security, they are there for PR and community outreach to the darker side of Chicago's supernatural underworld.
Just like our association with Cauldron is for community outreach to the lighter side of Chicago's supernatural scene.



6) Let me try and explain this once more:
The Fellowship is an insurgency not a nationstate. It doesnt get to piggyback on nationstate resources like the Reds can do.

It has limited resources.
Limited shooters, limited spies, limited fundraisers. Limited lore.
People training new recruits arent doing field ops. People doing admin work arent doing espionage.

And they have to do all this while trying to dodge the attention of both the Red Court and mortal authorities, because more than a minority of the Fellowship have been put on mortal watchlists by the Reds as criminals and terrorists.
Thats why Susan was arrested by the FBI in Changes.

Any demands would require that they pull people off those existing jobs specifically to cater to Molly's demands means they have less resources for other work.
Just the additional overhead necessary to scrub any intel of its sourcing materially degrades their capabilities.

This is not Sanctuary, where you have tens of thousands of experts to draw on.
Its not even the Fae Courts.



7)We have only passed Crown-derived info to people we trust enough to know about it, or after we've laundered the Crown info sufficiently that its origins are obscured beyond "nebulous"
Even hinting that we knew shit was a major problem while we were dealing with the Hollow Man conspiracy.


8) Disagree strongly.
There was once upon a time when the Fellowship might have been a useful source of intel in South America, but that passed when Molly got a fucking planet as a Background to draw on, and went up to Essence 4.

Their value is as PR and maybe tripwires.
That is not helped by trying to squeeze them as a captive market in the middle of their war.
Its of no value to Molly personally, and it starts out any relationship on the wrong footing.


Not to mention that, since we might well need Tiffany's help with this when dealing with the older Halfbloods so they dont die of old age after exorcism, it complicates the accounting even further.
 
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