Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Last edited:
Time multiplication seems a bit too strong, I think they are best knocked down to x2 otherwise they look great, nice descriptions.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow with hopefully less sleep-deprivation (though saying that being loopy from the lack of sleep does seem to have made my writing faster 
)
)
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Please don't vote to have a party member tie their hands behind their back in 7 different ways guys. I don't think many are going to feel very good or justified about it if Harry finds himself in a situation where a wizard breaking a Law may save the day or get himself and or Tiffany out of a harrowing situation against say, Denarians and their human worshipers.
- Location
- Nowhere
- Pronouns
- She/her
[X] Maybe he should talk to Ebeneezer first? Blackstuff exists and is used for a reason, and you know Harry is worth the trust
-[X] If he's still resolved afterwards, then yes, if that makes him more at ease, no matter the reason you are happy to help
To be blunt I think that Dresden signing the Book is a mistake. Or at least him signing the Book pursuant to the Seventh Law is a mistake. But I don't think that's an argument we can make in-character, and at the end of the day its his choice. That being said, if he's making the choice for the wrong reasons, which it seems he is, then he should at least get some other perspectives before he does something irreversible.
@DragonParadox Has Dresden spoken to McCoy about what he saw in the Labyrinth yet? Because if not, we probably shouldn't be pushing him yo get advice from him.
-[X] If he's still resolved afterwards, then yes, if that makes him more at ease, no matter the reason you are happy to help
To be blunt I think that Dresden signing the Book is a mistake. Or at least him signing the Book pursuant to the Seventh Law is a mistake. But I don't think that's an argument we can make in-character, and at the end of the day its his choice. That being said, if he's making the choice for the wrong reasons, which it seems he is, then he should at least get some other perspectives before he does something irreversible.
@DragonParadox Has Dresden spoken to McCoy about what he saw in the Labyrinth yet? Because if not, we probably shouldn't be pushing him yo get advice from him.
- Pronouns
- ImBuda
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
Last edited:
boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
Edge cases like Sue are important - and seeing as how we should be able to use FSB to nix any derangements until our Spirit Binding Therapists can help him? Yeah, let's not encourage the guy DP describes as "someone with a strict religious upbringing being let loose in the outside world" to backslide, particularly not for political capital (he has tons) or the acceptance of the White Council (not really going to happen after Sue). For fucks sake, look at McCoy!
If he really wants to, then I guess we'll enable him, but let's at least point out what a terrible idea it is. We're one book before Ghost Story - he's already the Mad Wizard Dresden of Chicago.
What if the book decides setting buildings on fire could kill a human he's unaware of? He could be restricted from using his evocations until he's searched all nearby possibly-flammable buildings in a two-mile radius for people who could die if the house caught fire!
Grey areas with an AI judge? Not a good plan for combat situations!
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
Edge cases like Sue are important - and seeing as how we should be able to use FSB to nix any derangements until our Spirit Binding Therapists can help him? Yeah, let's not encourage the guy DP describes as "someone with a strict religious upbringing being let loose in the outside world" to backslide, particularly not for political capital (he has tons) or the acceptance of the White Council (not really going to happen after Sue). For fucks sake, look at McCoy!
If he really wants to, then I guess we'll enable him, but let's at least point out what a terrible idea it is. We're one book before Ghost Story - he's already the Mad Wizard Dresden of Chicago.
What if the book decides setting buildings on fire could kill a human he's unaware of? He could be restricted from using his evocations until he's searched all nearby possibly-flammable buildings in a two-mile radius for people who could die if the house caught fire!
Grey areas with an AI judge? Not a good plan for combat situations!
Last edited:
- Location
- Perth, Scotland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
I was kinda torn between this and the Ebenezar option, but I will say that I particularly don't want the "Yes, no matter the reason" choice - because the reason really does matter here, not just as a matter of general morality (though that's my main impetus) but because magic - wizard magic, at least - is about what you believe in.
It feels, to me at least, like he's doing this for the wrong reasons: as @boo600 highlights, it seems a bit like backsliding, about doing this not because he actually thinks he needs it, but to, I dunno... be seen to be doing it, really? For a chance to finally fit in, and to be accepted?
And that feels like a terrible reason to shackle your own magic.
EDIT: I was going to edit this to say that edge cases like Sue wouldn't be an issue, but actually, I looked up the wording of the Fifth Law - "Thou Shalt Not Reach Beyond the Borders of Life" - and yeah, actually, that would straight-up have barred it, at least if it was implemented by that exact wording.
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
I was kinda torn between this and the Ebenezar option, but I will say that I particularly don't want the "Yes, no matter the reason" choice - because the reason really does matter here, not just as a matter of general morality (though that's my main impetus) but because magic - wizard magic, at least - is about what you believe in.
It feels, to me at least, like he's doing this for the wrong reasons: as @boo600 highlights, it seems a bit like backsliding, about doing this not because he actually thinks he needs it, but to, I dunno... be seen to be doing it, really? For a chance to finally fit in, and to be accepted?
And that feels like a terrible reason to shackle your own magic.
EDIT: I was going to edit this to say that edge cases like Sue wouldn't be an issue, but actually, I looked up the wording of the Fifth Law - "Thou Shalt Not Reach Beyond the Borders of Life" - and yeah, actually, that would straight-up have barred it, at least if it was implemented by that exact wording.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Maybe he should talk to Ebeneezer first? Blackstuff exists and is used for a reason, and you know Harry is worth the trust
-[X] If he's still resolved afterwards, then yes, if that makes him more at ease, no matter the reason you are happy to help
-[X] If he's still resolved afterwards, then yes, if that makes him more at ease, no matter the reason you are happy to help
That seems like an incredibly steep price for what we're doing here. Just looking at the rules it almost seems like it'd be cheaper to make people completely incapable of magic than to be refined about it, since we could just turn off their occult skill with one shattering futility.
Dumping the loot from the entire quest so far, ranging from greater Akuma to nephandi archmages, wouldn't be enough to get even half way there.
They're a big change, but items that need physical access one willing user at a time to apply their effect don't seem equivalent to that level of effort. Especially when fascinations are already so flexible about their application rules.
That is to say, you could have a fascination that only blasts people who lie in front of it, or who like jam on their toast. Couldn't this be implemented as a fascination which curses anyone who signs it to fail when they try to commit black magic that just happens to have a permanent duration instead of a "in presence only" one?
Or if that won't fly, perhaps sorted into groups for "magic you can't perform on mortals" and "magic you can't perform on the world"? Breaking them into those groups keeps the association pretty direct so it's not like the application criteria of either would be tortuously complicated rules lawyering.
IC we might even be able to fluff it as inspired by Molly's perfect shaping defense. Not in applying an effect like that to people, but the flavor text of it is basically asserting her identity over the changes others wish to impose. A vast majority of the laws could be boiled down to judging by the same sort of criteria, no doing anything to people that would violate their nature by a standard set copying Molly's exaltation's notes.
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
[X] Maybe he should talk to Ebeneezer first? Blackstuff exists and is used for a reason, and you know Harry is worth the trust
-[X] If he's still resolved afterwards, then yes, if that makes him more at ease, no matter the reason you are happy to help
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
[X] Maybe he should talk to Ebeneezer first? Blackstuff exists and is used for a reason, and you know Harry is worth the trust
-[X] If he's still resolved afterwards, then yes, if that makes him more at ease, no matter the reason you are happy to help
Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
The argument there works on me.
A question for the people voting for this without the use of the empathy excellency. Was it just a matter of copying a version of the vote without it, or was it actually disagreeing with the use of empathy?
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
The argument there works on me.
A question for the people voting for this without the use of the empathy excellency. Was it just a matter of copying a version of the vote without it, or was it actually disagreeing with the use of empathy?
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
The first it initially didn't have the empathy Excellency attached.
Last edited:
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
The base votes will be added together as usual. In this case "No try to argue" has 13 votes with different variants of it existing.
[x] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
[x] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination
- Location
- Estonia
[X] No, try to argue him around to Tiffany's side. Now is not the time to voluntarily disarm himself even of the most distasteful weapons
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
It's his choice, yes. But it's also Molly's choice to try to convince someone important to her not to do something stupidly self-flagellating out of guilt again.
Molly and Lash really need to agree to double-team him in such matters
-[X] "You've lived with and fought through the Doom of Damocles all of your life, and shown that it is possible to overcome the influence of Lawbreaking through choice alone. You stand as an example for others. If the White Council wishes to avoid having this book become a crutch that it is reliant upon, then it will need a beacon such as yourself, to shine the light of self-determination."
-[X] Empathy excellency
It's his choice, yes. But it's also Molly's choice to try to convince someone important to her not to do something stupidly self-flagellating out of guilt again.
Molly and Lash really need to agree to double-team him in such matters
Last edited:
boo600
Ego sum egredietur tempestas.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Hungry
He might feel a little ganged up on, if we do that. Two woman, one an exalt with a social entity, the other an ancient shadow of a divine being literally made to tempt him specifically?
I mean, he does need the social work, sometimes. He's kind of… withdrawn, and he's learned a lot of toxic, self-harm adjacent behaviors and 'knowledge.' He 'killed Elaine' and 'is barely redeemable.'
According to TV Tropes, Proven Guilty lets Molly give Charity a big speech calling her out over how she treated Harry and all he's done over the years. He didn't really get that here, because Exaltation. (Also, Charity has resolutely stayed anti-magic, even if she's trying for Molly's sake - meaning Molly is magical, and could honestly just leave at this point, and Charity had a heart and a brain).
He needs some support. Ghost Story is about Harry learning to look at himself - at the effect he had on Chicago, and the people he loved, as well as how people saw him. The Mad Wizard Dresden, who made it so that there were easier cities to prey upon.
He needs to hear that, and believe it. Not to get a swelled head… but seriously internalize what good he has done. Or he'll just keep… trudging along, painfully.
We can't tell him Elaine is alive, in-character. But we could give him this.
I mean, he does need the social work, sometimes. He's kind of… withdrawn, and he's learned a lot of toxic, self-harm adjacent behaviors and 'knowledge.' He 'killed Elaine' and 'is barely redeemable.'
According to TV Tropes, Proven Guilty lets Molly give Charity a big speech calling her out over how she treated Harry and all he's done over the years. He didn't really get that here, because Exaltation. (Also, Charity has resolutely stayed anti-magic, even if she's trying for Molly's sake - meaning Molly is magical, and could honestly just leave at this point, and Charity had a heart and a brain).
He needs some support. Ghost Story is about Harry learning to look at himself - at the effect he had on Chicago, and the people he loved, as well as how people saw him. The Mad Wizard Dresden, who made it so that there were easier cities to prey upon.
He needs to hear that, and believe it. Not to get a swelled head… but seriously internalize what good he has done. Or he'll just keep… trudging along, painfully.
We can't tell him Elaine is alive, in-character. But we could give him this.