Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[BronzeTongue]

Use a different spell example the lawn chair is just a horrific overreach it doesn't make sense with any of the sphere descriptions it's complete bullshit. If for some reason the living corpses animated by dead blood require life then it would still only be life 3 to transform them because that's what you need to use life in a hostile manner on anything else including werewolves

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The rule was amended precisely because it wasn't intended for mages to use low level powers to casually obliterate other supernaturals. I keep using it as an example because I think your constant insistence that this should be an easy shape metal roll falls into the same category.

You call it pandering, but I'd say mages have plenty of advantages without that being one of them. Other supernaturals are protected by other properties from the exploit that caused the rule change.

I said it this way on purpose I'm not talking about it being a shaping effect I'm talking about just a damaging spell because matter on matter spells follow the forces formula of two dice per success on damage. Also there are rules for both targeting body parts and you can teleport being bodies apart using Magic there's literally nothing stopping us from aiming at the neck of whoever we want to it would just increase the difficulty of our rolls significantly but spells are essentially aimed by eye so aiming at the leg or something and hoping to inflict some kind of movement penalty or otherwise is nowhere near outside of possibility or system.

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I know you said it that way on purpose, I'm saying that the concept is inherently unworkable.

If you do damage then you use the health system, even with called shots. The War Weavers are rather tanky so they benefit from this approach.

The injury penalty system exists to represent the sort of incidental functional loss from someone hurting a subject; there's no difference between that being because they hit you with a sword or tried to explode your joints.

You're basically inventing a super injury penalty tier where the mage cast a spell that acts like a damaging attack but gets to adjudicate its results like a shaping effect.

@DragonParadox could you weigh in on this since it's relevant to the vote and Molly has a high occult score?

I don't expect them to be immune, but certainly hardy enough that wizards can't immediately trivialize them with matter sphere rules lawyering.

 

[BoredMan]

If Sophia is with us she should use her telepathy (as someone had mentioned) so people don't need sign language. It would also allow for better coordination midfight.

 

[DragonParadox]

@DragonParadox could you weigh in on this since it's relevant to the vote and Molly has a high occult score?

I don't expect them to be immune, but certainly hardy enough that wizards can't immediately trivialize them with matter sphere rules lawyering.

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If you are attempting to do damage you have to use the health system yeah, that is what it's for. There is no difference between attacking a robot and a person in WoD in that regard or the technocracy would be screwed which it manifestly is not. IC the robots have spirits in them same as human souls. You do not get to treat it as dead matter.

 

[DragonParadox]

Good night guys.

 

[tenchifew]

[X] Heavy riot suppression SWAT equivalent team

 

[Degorium]

At most I'd guess they'd do night people counterspelling, which is wits+occult.

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This roll is at Difficulty 7 by the way both/ Either shaping would be at difficulty 3,4,5 or 4,5,6 with a dice pool that can be 3 or more dice that also explode. Even at max difficulty for the spell 6 a strong warlock (arete 7) has 50/50 shot with a 10 dice counter magic pool. With the minimal spell difficulty with your suggestion that drops to Arete 5.

The injury penalty system exists to represent the sort of incidental functional loss from someone hurting a subject; there's no difference between that being because they hit you with a sword or tried to explode your joints.

You're basically inventing a super injury penalty tier where the mage cast a spell that acts like a damaging attack but gets to adjudicate its results like a shaping effect.

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No Movement penalties aren't health boxes they are different things.

• Blinded: Cannot block, dodge, or parry; all other tasks +2 difficulty.
• Knocked Down: As per Immobilized until standing back up.
• Immobilized: Attackers reduce difficulty to hit by -2 if target can move; hit automatically if target cannot move.
• Stunned: If, from one blow, target suffers damage that exceeds Stamina rating, then target is stunned one turn; attempts to hit are -2 difficulty during that time

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Literally I know i comment a lot but I try not to say things that are easily verifiably False.
Edit: so Spirit 3 Matter 2 to transform, Matter 2 and or Force 2 to injure as normal.

IC the robots have spirits in them same as human souls. You do not get to treat it as dead matter.

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[fictionfan]

If someone has a lock of Carlos' hair or a vial of his blood Break the Bonds would not have exploded it since it would just be a distinct physical object, not binding him in any way at the moment. The Gift has no way to tell if that piece of him is in the possession of an enemy unless it is actively used to control him when invoked.

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Those things usually tend to have fairly short shelf life though. I think it was 30 day for blood (assuming perfect preservation) and until your next hair cut for hair. Not that they aren't likely to have them. Just that keeping a updated stock of fetishes for everyone is quite a bit of trouble. Also if you someone finds a bunch of labeled locks of hair in your room there are not really any innocent explanations.

 

[BronzeTongue]

This roll is at Difficulty 7 by the way both/ Either shaping would be at difficulty 3,4,5 or 4,5,6 with a dice pool that can be 3 or more dice that also explode. Even at max difficulty for the spell 6 a strong warlock (arete 7) has 50/50 shot with a 10 dice counter magic pool. With the minimal spell with your suggestion that drops to Arete 5.

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Where are you getting the difficulty numbers for that?

For the counter spell from DP's earlier ruling on AI casting from computer the roll is:

4 against difficulty 4 after feature adjustment, which actually gives a pretty good success rate.

Also, I'm not sure this is even allowable itself anymore because DP just posted ruling that they don't count as dead matter. I imagine an effect like this could be done with multiple spheres, but not with a 2 dot pure matter power.

Your arete ratings are also wildly high. Iku was treated as Arete 7. 5 is the border for archmage even if we don't have arch spheres. Even if it was possible archmages only have a 50% chance of making it stick is pretty good.

No Movement penalties aren't health boxes they are different things.

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I interpreted your tactic here as trying to tear it apart at the joints. Still you're going through the damage system to do this. I don't think you get crippling effects without doing a decent chunk of damage, so the general defense still holds.

They have stamina 6 and since they can't directly manipulate the war weaver's bodies at range they'd get active defense too.

Anyone who's capable of blowing through that to cut them up anyway would be able to do the same thing to a cyborg.

Edit: error

 

[Degorium]

The rule was amended precisely because it wasn't intended for mages to use low level powers to casually obliterate other supernaturals. I keep using it as an example because I think your constant insistence that this should be an easy shape metal roll falls into the same category.

You call it pandering, but I'd say mages have plenty of advantages without that being one of them. Other supernaturals are protected by other properties from the exploit that caused the rule change.

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I call it pandering because it literally is no other Supernatural is protected in this way. Werewolves if you have the requisite three Spirit you can permanently transform them into lawn chairs forever using regular sphere amounts that you would turn a normal person into a chair with. Same for the fairies same for most spirits whether that be player spirits such as Oblivion or not. Only the vampires get such extreme leway as to be incapacitated unconscious and still be able to make rolls to defend themselves get to spend Vitae and make frenzy rolls after they are already defeated.

It is literally blatant favoritism because they also get the best ruling for counter magic despite intrinsically having the structure that should make them the worst at counter magic the higher the generation is but instead they get a willpower cap. While werewolves which have way more reason to be kind of deeply resistant to changing magics only get their gnosis as dice.

5 is the border for archmage even if we don't have arch spheres. Even if it was possible archmages only have a 50% chance of making it stick is pretty good.

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Dresden is an Arete 5 Mage(Analogue). That is including the multiple spheres Spirit 3, Matter 3 the same levels to effect Werewolves (Spirit 3,Life 3). It is also with one round with minimal difficulty reducers.

I interpreted your tactic here as trying to tear it apart at the joints. Still you're going through the damage system to do this. I don't think you get crippling effects without doing a decent chunk of damage, so the general defense still holds.

They have stamina 6 and since they can't directly manipulate the war weaver's bodies at range they'd get active defense too.

Anyone who's capable of blowing through that to cut them up anyway would be able to do the same thing to a cyborg.

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You literally can knock down/Stun characters with spells/Maneuvers and Damage.

Forces 2 can lift a single human-sized character, or other roughly equivalent mass, weighing up to 300 pounds or so.

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As a general rule, though, assume that a character who takes incidental damage from a quirk of physics will typically suffer one health level of bashing damage for each success rolled by the mage who cast the Effect. And so, as an example, the victim of Khan's trap must try to soak three health levels of bashing damage after he slips and falls.

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Literally aiming at a character with the intent to fuck them up using incidental damage like fucking up their footing is a thing you can do and they take levels of damage equal to the successes on said roll like causing a joint to over-actuate using spirit and matter or just causing the foot to slide across a floor using never mind just lifting them and slamming them into shit which considering the Rarity of life sphere Wizards and the not at all Rarity of spirit Mages is a considerably more real concern Spirit 1 to lock the effect force 2 to pull and slam and Pull and slam.

I'm going to be real with you a lot of my concerns about that come from the fact that neither Spirit magic nor Matter magic is rare in Dresden Files while life magic is seemingly extremely so.

Just making the bottoms of the robot's feet slippery which yes they might counter magic their way out of I honestly doubt that they can use wits plus computer for counter magic because that's insane especially when you're counting magic that has nothing to do with a computer. The fact that you can lock in effect using matter or spirit and also life but the Rarity of the life sphere in setting means there aren't really locked spells like can be done on a robot that is both a spirit and steel body.

Someone who can Shear through a war-weaver could probably also do it to a cyborg but they can't just lock an effect to a cyborg that completely fucks up cyborg because that would require life sphere Magic. The force magic they used to dampen the sound of this entire area is a considerable concern in that aspect.

[X] Non-masquerade breaking assistance

[X] Heavy riot suppression SWAT equivalent team
-[x][Stunt]The Party Poopers (not the official name but at this point even they use the name with pride) are a specialized magic containment unit. Usually called in as a quick response force when magical accidents go out of control. Most of them aren't mages themselves, but they have a good knowledge of magic theory specialized in grounding and countering it.

 

[fictionfan]

Something to mention for the next build vote. Tiffany being part of our circle makes every extra health level that much more valuable.

It used to be that we basically had to spend essence on our soak charms for any situation that might possibly be dangerous even for a normal human.

But with passive Ox-bodys and Tiffany to costless heal ourselves up we don't need to spend essence on paranoia as much. Which is a big deal when essence economy has been a big limiting factor on our tempo for these arcs.

 

[firefrog600]

Maybe I'm going too far in the opposite direction, but the point I'm trying to argue is not that they're impossible for us to get so much as that logistics is complicated.

The more specific and rare a subject you request is the more involved fulfilling it is. Having more resources around means you're more likely to have it, but also that finding it and moving it is harder. This applies to people as much as material goods.

Request a good doctor? Doable. Request a world class one? Workable but expensive. Requesting 5-6 world class surgeons with experience performing particular operations? That's going to take a minute.

Asking for really good sorcerers with those paths is different than asking for the best around. Especially with the side chatter about them being focused on counter spelling specifically. I can buy that poking our head into Sanctuary and calling for good sorcerers to show up would get results, but the tailor made applicants don't grow on trees and probably have important stuff on their plates. Those things can be handled, but not without lead time.

I guess the root of this is that I'm thinking about what the guy we ask to do this has to work out.

Imagine you work in the Empress's palace, maybe running Molly's fast action security forces. She pokes her head in and asks you to find the best people alive at X task with Y specialization that you didn't previously know to keep around and are in currently out living their lives in one of the cities. In the next hour.

They exist, and they're probably not going to turn down their goddess, but could you even get them on site in time?

I think this problem could be eased by say assigning a subsoul to help organize an office for it, but our security forces aren't exactly set up for that role.



The cosplayers get more dedicated every year.


Yeah phone posting. My bad on that, I never use this site any other way and honestly didn't consider that.

@DragonParadox replied in a way that implies to me that they don't need to worry about being turned into toasters by an uncontested shaping effect.

Wizards usually can't just snap their fingers and banish things or transmute bodies. With some prep yeah, but at combat times they're going to be evoking at them.

At most I'd guess they'd do night people counterspelling, which is wits+occult.

@DragonParadox we saw a sutra use computer to cast fortune magic once, is that a general rule for them? Full disclosure on the point of the question; because of the features I picked for flavor reasons being able to counterspell attacks like this with computer would be favorable to the War Weavers.

They'd get the -2 difficulty on the roll if it was wits+computer, but since they aren't casters otherwise it mostly lets them be good on the defense without investing lots of dots outside of their focus.

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In fairness the palace is more a small city than like the White House it has hundreds of thousands so I imagine the head doctor could be as good as 5 or 6 dots in their profession as an example. I know there's definitely someone with over 5 dots in finance in our palace.

 

[firefrog600]

[X] Non-masquerade breaking assistance

I think it'd be nice to ask dp how rare people with 5 dots and above are in a profession like 1 in a thousand in that path or 1 in ten thousand or even 1 in a million to break past 5 dots.

 

[BronzeTongue]

It is literally blatant favoritism because they also get the best ruling for counter magic despite intrinsically having the structure that should make them the worst at counter magic the higher the generation is but instead they get a willpower cap. While werewolves which have way more reason to be kind of deeply resistant to changing magics only get their gnosis as dice

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The ruling was added specifically because mage players started arguing that because vampires were dead they didn't count as creatures for the purposes of magical targeting guidelines. Nobody was making that argument for werewolves.

Dresden is an Arete 5 Mage(Analogue). That is including the multiple spheres Spirit 3, Matter 3 the same levels to effect Werewolves (Spirit 3,Life 3). It is also with one round with minimal difficulty reducers.

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Dresden is in the top 5-10% of all magical talents. That's why he matters enough to get in trouble and be headhunted by most factions he interacts with. Nicodemus didn't throw a coin at him just to be an asshole and Mab didn't spend years debt trapping him because she has an abundance of free time.

If they had a truckload of archmages they wouldn't be acting like this.

You literally can knock down/Stun characters with spells/Maneuvers and Damage.

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Okay. Those effects work on anyone though, and there's nothing to indicate they'd be especially effective against robots in particular.

Something like telekinetically throwing people around would be resisted by countermagic and soak for the collision damage if that failed, so it's not really a gotcha. That's what five of the people you're voting to bring would do too.

We're also working as a group here, the war weavers cover an angle the wizards have more trouble with and vice versa.

We're probably going to see summon tactics coming the other way for the similar purpose of pressuring and pining our wizards. Killbots can perform that role and defend against it as needed.

Edit:

I would like to emphasize that we were just told you couldn't treat possessed combat robots like they're dead metal. So they're just as hard to effect as a living being, you just need a sphere other than life to go with whatever you're trying to do.

There isn't a particular defensive advantage found in a hand agent over a robot in this fashion.

Sutra do have the added benefit of not losing their immortality on Earth though, because spirit killers are basically nonexistent outside of Halloween and the eye of Balor.

 

[firefrog600]

The ruling was added specifically because mage players started arguing that because vampires were dead they didn't count as creatures for the purposes of magical targeting guidelines. Nobody was making that argument for werewolves.



Dresden is in the top 5-10% of all magical talents. That's why he matters enough to get in trouble and be headhunted by most factions he interacts with. Nicodemus didn't throw a coin at him just to be an asshole and Mab didn't spend years debt trapping him because she has an abundance of free time.

If they had a truckload of archmages they wouldn't be acting like this.

Okay. Those effects work on anyone though, and there's nothing to indicate they'd be especially effective against robots in particular.

Something like telekinetically throwing people around would be resisted by countermagic and soak for the collision damage if that failed, so it's not really a gotcha. That's what five of the people you're voting to bring would do too.

We're also working as a group here, the war weavers cover an angle the wizards have more trouble with and vice versa.

We're probably going to see summon tactics coming the other way for the similar purpose of pressuring and pining our wizards. Killbots can perform that role and defend against it as needed.

Edit:

I would like to emphasize that we were just told you couldn't treat possessed combat robots like they're dead metal. So they're just as hard to effect as a living being, you just need a sphere other than life to go with whatever you're trying to do.

There isn't a particular defensive advantage found in a hand agent over a robot in this fashion.

Sutra do have the added benefit of not losing their immortality on Earth though, because spirit killers are basically nonexistent outside of Halloween and the eye of Balor.

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1% better than 1% actually in terms of power he says hes somewhere in the top 40 but given a century or two its repeatedly said he could get to top 5 most powerful wizards in the world. He never says number 1 but that might just be humility if we're being honest.

 

[Degorium]

we were just told you couldn't treat possessed combat robots like they're dead metal. So they're just as hard to effect as a living being, you just need a sphere other than life to go with whatever you're trying to do.

There isn't a particular defensive advantage found in a hand agent over a robot in this fashion.

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Okay are you not looking at the examples I'm giving spirit 3 is the other sphere. It is serving in the place of the life sphere for affecting the metal of the body of said spirit. I'm very much not treating it as dead metal that is what you were supposed to do the ability to hurt harm or otherwise fucking Spirits is Spirit 3.

Yet again I will state the explicit Rarity of Life Wizards in Dresden Files is why they hold a better place than Spirit robots when almost every wizard we see in print has some level of spirit binding ability. Never mind most of them also possess the ability to work Magic on regular objects.

The ability to shape any living thing requires the Life Sphere and I can only think of one wizard who is written that might have the sphere capable of doing what I said which is Listens to Wind one of the council's strongest members and Senior council member and that's the only one if you have any other examples of Life Mages across the entire Canon please feel free to tell me but he's the only one who I can think of that has the ability to shapeshift into animals which would be Life 4.

Nearly every other wizard we see on screen has some level of spirit binding ability direct access to force magic or otherwise the ability to manipulate matter on some level whether that be transforming forces directly into magic which is a weird Force Prime rote thing. Directly affecting and grabbing objects with magic changing the nature and size and shape of objects with magic. I might be forgetting someone but outside shapeshifting there is very little Life magic in Dresden Files.

Telekinetically grabbing someone with magic requires the life sphere if they are a flesh person. Pushing someone over just requires Force. Spirits because every wizard that gets trained by the white Council has some level of spirit binding ability all of them have some level of Spirit sphere it is literally the first thing they seem to train even someone who is completely half trained like Dresden has a spirit binding abilities.

 

[firefrog600]

Okay are you not looking at the examples I'm giving spirit 3 is the other sphere. It is serving in the place of the life sphere for affecting the metal of the body of said spirit. I'm very much not treating it as dead metal that is what you were supposed to do the ability to hurt harm or otherwise fucking Spirits is Spirit 3.

Yet again I will state the explicit Rarity of Life Wizards in Dresden Files is why they hold a better place than Spirit robots when almost every wizard we see in print has some level of spirit binding ability. Never mind most of them also possess the ability to work Magic on regular objects.

The ability to shape any living thing requires the Life Sphere and I can only think of one wizard who is written that might have the sphere capable of doing what I said which is Listens to Wind one of the council's strongest members and Senior council member and that's the only one if you have any other examples of Life Mages across the entire Canon please feel free to tell me but he's the only one who I can think of that has the ability to shapeshift into animals which would be Life 4.

Nearly every other wizard we see on screen has some level of spirit binding ability direct access to force magic or otherwise the ability to manipulate matter on some level whether that be transforming forces directly into magic which is a weird Force Prime rote thing. Directly affecting and grabbing objects with magic changing the nature and size and shape of objects with magic. I might be forgetting someone but outside shapeshifting there is very little Life magic in Dresden Files.

Telekinetically grabbing someone with magic requires the life sphere if they are a flesh person. Pushing someone over just requires Force. Spirits because every wizard that gets trained by the white Council has some level of spirit binding ability all of them have some level of Spirit sphere it is literally the first thing they seem to train even someone who is completely half trained like Dresden has a spirit binding abilities.

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there's probably a fair few spirits that can do life stuff but dresden just isn't allowed nice things. Also summer fae given its probably niche life stuff like nature manipulation.

 

[BronzeTongue]

Okay are you not looking at the examples I'm giving spirit 3 is the other sphere. It is serving in the place of the life sphere for affecting the metal of the body of said spirit. I'm very much not treating it as dead metal that is what you were supposed to do the ability to hurt harm or otherwise fucking Spirits is Spirit 3.

Yet again I will state the explicit Rarity of Life Wizards in Dresden Files is why they hold a better place than Spirit robots when almost every wizard we see in print has some level of spirit binding ability. Never mind most of them also possess the ability to work Magic on regular objects.

The ability to shape any living thing requires the Life Sphere and I can only think of one wizard who is written that might have the sphere capable of doing what I said which is Listens to Wind one of the council's strongest members and Senior council member and that's the only one if you have any other examples of Life Mages across the entire Canon please feel free to tell me but he's the only one who I can think of that has the ability to shapeshift into animals which would be Life 4.

Nearly every other wizard we see on screen has some level of spirit binding ability direct access to force magic or otherwise the ability to manipulate matter on some level whether that be transforming forces directly into magic which is a weird Force Prime rote thing. Directly affecting and grabbing objects with magic changing the nature and size and shape of objects with magic. I might be forgetting someone but outside shapeshifting there is very little Life magic in Dresden Files.

Telekinetically grabbing someone with magic requires the life sphere if they are a flesh person. Pushing someone over just requires Force Spirits because every wizard that gets trained by the white Council has some level of spirit binding ability all of them have some level of spirit it is literally the first thing they seem to train even someone who is completely half trained like Dresden has a spirit binding abilities.

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We know life is somewhat rare, but not how rare. We also don't know the distribution of the relevant sphere combinations and levels. A bit of spirit binding isn't a sign of serious spirit magic.

Wizards aren't as readily able to improv without some information to work with as mages are anyway. After some study sure, but a wizard casting precise tricks like this on something they've never seen before isn't their usual combat strategy.

Even setting that aside we're still talking about high arete wizards throwing around multi reasonably investment heavy sphere effects. Arete 5 Spirit 3/Matter 3 mages don't grow on trees and aren't exactly hurting for options in combat.

The barrier of entry for this particular trick has only gone up over the course of this discussion, but you're continuing to treat it like it's a blinding obvious weakness everyone can trivially exploit.

Edit:

Dresden was trained by the guy who wrote the textbook everyone else is using. He's a young meathead wizard and a freak of nature and shouldn't be the standard measure of what skills a standard wizard has.

Even then he and everyone else we see fight spirits on screen don't do spirit hijinks like this.they set them on fire, apply bane weapons, leverage specific weakness, and lure them into specially prepared traps.

 

[Degorium]

We know life is somewhat rare, but not how rare. We also don't know the distribution of the relevant sphere combinations and levels. A bit of spirit binding isn't a sign of serious spirit magic.

Wizards aren't as readily able to improv without some information to work with as mages are anyway. After some study sure, but a wizard casting precise tricks like this on something they've never seen before isn't their usual combat strategy.

Even setting that aside we're still talking about high arete wizards throwing around multi reasonably investment heavy sphere effects. Arete 5 Spirit 3/Matter 3 mages don't grow on trees and aren't exactly hurting for options in combat.

The barrier of entry for this particular trick has only gone up over the course of this discussion, but you're continuing to treat it like it's a blinding obvious weakness everyone can trivially exploit.

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You do know that was literally the best case scenario right a full 10 dice against a wizard with one round of preparation instead of the normal amount of dice which is anywhere from four to six against the wizard who has some level of preparation against what he's facing the odds of successfully shaping a robot with that spell that I crafted hits Unity for a power 7 wizard the second that dice pool drops below eight.

They will assuredly transform the being the second that happens. For a power five wizard the second that dice pool hits 6 the odds are 75% that they are going to transform them they get worse the more likely the dice pool is. I gave you a best case scenario and two of them get to 50/50 with minimal calculations or preparations.

With an actually average pool of attribute and ability which of 3/3 at difficulty 7 that is two successes on average. A wizard casting that spell assuming they had three dice would be casting it at difficulty 4,5,6 which means they'll hit that anywhere from 78% to 50% of the time. A wizard that by most game standards is a complete beginner. It is only by having a dice pool that is literally maxed out that that is a good example.

Which isn't hand-picked example because we have clippy as an example of a Cyber spirit and if no cheese that might allow it to cast counter magic using an ability that has nothing to do with magic exists would immediately fall under that kind of spell like our pistols were in danger of doing the second we gave them to the white Council and they immediately told us the devil's inside of them could be subverted to using their magic.

 

[BronzeTongue]

You do know that was literally the best case scenario right a full 10 dice against a wizard with one round of preparation instead of the normal amount of dice which is anywhere from four to six against the wizard who has some level of preparation against what he's facing the odds of successfully shaping a robot with that spell that I crafted hits Unity for a power 7 wizard the second that dice pool drops below eight.

They will assuredly transform the being the second that happens. For a power five wizard the second that dice pool hits 6 the odds are 75% that they are going to transform them they get worse the more likely the dice pool is. I gave you a best case scenario and two of them get to 50/50 with minimal calculations or preparations.

With an actually average pool of attribute and ability which of 3/3 at difficulty 7 that is two successes on average. A wizard casting that spell assuming they had three dice would be casting it at difficulty 4,5,6 which means they'll hit that anywhere from 78% to 50% of the time. A wizard that by most game standards is a complete beginner. It is only by having a dice pool that is literally maxed out that that is a good example.

Which isn't hand-picked example because we have clippy as an example of a Cyber spirit and if no cheese that might allow it to cast counter magic using an ability that has nothing to do with magic exists would immediately fall under that kind of spell like our pistols were in danger of doing the second we gave them to the white Council and they immediately told us the devil's inside of them could be subverted to using their magic.

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An arete 7 wizard is an archmage. The combat robots are not made to 1v1 archmages.

Arete 5 wizards aren't common either, and I don't think we ever hear about generic casting buffs in the series*. The more likely situation is that the they're facing say an Arete 3-4 wizard and whatever non-mage support they bring.

War Weavers work in teams of 5 with options across most ranges. If you take your casting action to attempt to shape one of them the rest are going to shoot you, probably twice a pop because they have an action enhancer. A mage who chooses to press that instead of splitting defensive actions will end up smeared across the ground.

We're moving in with at least 2 forces archmages of our own along with Harry, Carlos, and the 3 wizards Morgan trusted to take hunting elder vampires in the jungle.

They have fewer people than us, and Peabody is the strongest warlock anywhere near here.

I think you're dramatically overstating the risk, but if one of them is stupid enough to pick that as their casting action they're going to get removed from the gene pool doing it.

The point is that they're dangerous murder blenders; they are very good at dealing out violence to run interference and pressure larger threats. That is the role they fill in the fight. Our 7 major wizards can exploit that cover to deal with the problems the murder bots struggle with.

* For that matter shaping other people without a focus isn't a thing either. Forces shit is normal but if you want to do weird things you better have a name or a part of their body.

 

[fictionfan]

For the upcoming wizard fight Molly should just focus on SSC try and make the enemy wizards fail all rolls. Mostly because I think that they white council will be much better about all this if they manage to solve at least some of their own problems. Also Molly cutting their heads off is a bad look.

It's the wrong choice from a pure combat perspective because the biggest debuff is wounded, unconscious and death in that order, but it seems like the right optics.

 

[Anaja]

Huh. Does this imply that incarnates like Tiffany are a known thing, or just that the idea exists and Morgan is using it as an approximation for what he sees?

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It could just be an inclusive category. One of the interpretations for what nephilim are is offspring of humans and angels. They might just use the term for beings that have angelic ancestry.

 

[fictionfan]

I thought it was powering through pain, but it's actually refusing to experience it in the first place.

It's a good thing Molly hasn't been near a mortal doctor in a while, cause between that and the tattoos across her heart and bones from SWSS I imagine it would be somewhat alarming.

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And yet at the same time.

The Infernal scribes a litany of the pain and hardships she has endured upon her heart and her very bones, fortifying her flesh against harm.

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So the Infernal doesn't experience pain, but does write the book on it in their flesh.

 

[Yog]

So... the main take from the interlude is that Council is really, really suffering from Dresden not actually trusting them as an organization.

 

[Nyarky]

[x] Bronzetongue

 

[Ivar]

So... the main take from the interlude is that Council is really, really suffering from Dresden not actually trusting them as an organization.

Click to shrink...

Um, could you expand on that a little bit? What is Dresden's fault here? And take into account Morgan's bias against Dresden.