Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Any enemy that is smart enough to be a threat, is to smart enough to not make a wish. I assume Nicodemus is one of them, and not an fallen that is Anduriel. And no they explicitly can't stop us ripping the hold over their hosts, we are Exalted Galaxy busting is not nearly strong enough to stop an exalted. The White God sure the Angles no. As for the noose, so what Nicodemus if he refuses dies instantly do not pass go, do not take your coin, or you noose with you, go straight to hell game over.
Nicodemus, indeed most of the Denarians, have never lacked for audacity.

Yeah no. You are not ripping the soul of a Denarian's steed out of its body because it refused to keep a deal.
They lie. They cheat. They break deals and rules. Its a fundamental part of their nature. The idea that you get to supercede an angel's defenses around its favored steed is fairly preposterous. Not gonna happen unless the GM rules otherwise.

We're Exalted. We're a Big Deal. But there are much bigger Players than us swimming in this pond.

I mean, its not like this is some unprecedented news.
OG Exalted had Shaping defenses and UMI defenses against precisely this sort of threat as well, when wielded by more powerful actors than a baby Solaroid. Righteous Lion Defense was de rigeur for a Solaroid.
That would really only be a problem for the Raiths. There are clans that feed by pissing people off, or making them afraid, or any number of things really.
You don't think they could feed off of religious fundamentalist? Or act like fundamentalist to piss people off?
Same difference.
White Court virgins kill their first victim, regardless of what flavor of emotion they prefer.
Socializing for empathy endangers that.
 
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Same difference.
White Court virgins kill their first victim, regardless of what flavor of emotion they prefer.
Socializing for empathy endangers that.

They usually don't get told about it till they fledge. At least, from what we see. Their first kill is basically always accidental.

And their hunger tweeks them from childhood so uh. It's not like a ton of instruction is needed.

Most of their strength, faction wise, comes from soft power anyway. Social skills are actually *somewhat* important for them to develop.
 
Nicodemus, indeed most of the Denarians, have never lacked for audacity.

Yeah no. You are not ripping the soul of a Denarian's steed out of its body because it refused to keep a deal.
They lie. They cheat. They break deals and rules. Its a fundamental part of their nature. The idea that you get to supercede an angel's defenses around its favored steed is fairly preposterous. Not gonna happen.

We're Exalted. We're a Big Deal. But there are much bigger Players than us swimming in this pond.

I mean, its not like this is some unprecedented news.
OG Exalted had Shaping defenses and UMI defenses against precisely this sort of threat as well, when wielded by more powerful actors than a baby Solaroid. Righteous Lion Defense was de rigeur for a Solaroid.
GM confirmed that the spell sapphire ritual of exorcism will 100% tear the coins and their holders apart. Sapphire the weakest of the 3 banishment spells in exalted, we are not dealing with beings that where made to fight perfects. As for shaping just buy counter magic, also deals with death curses and can be used on others.
 
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They usually don't get told about it till they fledge. At least, from what we see. Their first kill is basically always accidental.
And their hunger tweeks them from childhood so uh. It's not like a ton of instruction is needed.

Most of their strength, faction wise, comes from soft power anyway. Social skills are actually *somewhat* important for them to develop.
We only ever see Inari that I can recall.
The Despair vamps, and the Fear vamps, are a lot harder to stumble into an accidental kill.
Not sure how theyd pull that off.

Sure their strength is Social.
But social skills do not require empathy. Ask any sociopath.
Quote? Preferably not on the Update because QM also said it was getting late and they were going to bed and already made corrections to other charms.
From the update:
[] Wicked City Charm: Hollow Mind Possession (••): Invest a dark spirit in a into a smart device within line of sight, awakening it into an AI subject of your power within the limits of the device. Can be permanent with enough successes 4 XP
 
We only ever see Inari that I can recall.
The Despair vamps, and the Fear vamps, are a lot harder to stumble into an accidental kill.
Not sure how theyd pull that off.

Sure their strength is Social.
But social skills do not require empathy. Ask any sociopath.
From the update:
I mean yes he also had to correct one thing before they went to sleep I like your plan to the most and I'm still not actually sure its a valid one.

Also even white court doesn't dissociate their kids from other people if anything they encourage it they just make sure they don't develop true love.
 
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Yes?

I specifically asked not to quote the update because of this.
It is past midnight for me I'll post the rolls tomorrow.

Are these supposed to have an XP cost, or do we get one as an arc freebie, or what?

Surely that should be 9 XP.

Also missing XP?

The QM made a mistake on the pricing on ther charms and changed it the moment it was pointed out.

There is nothing to say that the QM will not change it to 8xp when they wake up.
 
GM confirmed that the spell sapphire ritual of exorcism will 100% tear the coins and their holders apart. Sapphire the weakest of the 3 banishment spells in exalted, we are not dealing with being that where made to fight perfects. As for shaping just buy counter magic, also deals with death curses and can be used on others.
Sapphire Banishment ejects the Fallen from the body.
It doesnt yank the human soul out of the body like the Charm would have to do as an instant death Shaping effect.
Different things done.

Sapphire Banishment is Celestial Circle Sorcery.
The only thing stronger is Adamant Circle Sorcery, which is where you're ordering 3CDs around.

Countermagic does fuckall to Shaping in Exalted.
And when Dresden was under attack by an entropy spell, he didnt try countermagic either.
He ran and hid under magic defenses.
 
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[x] The Hell of Burrowing Maggots Charm: Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••): Grant the prayers of any who would cast their wishes in the wind and in exchange if you should wish demand obediance
 
We only ever see Inari that I can recall.
The Despair vamps, and the Fear vamps, are a lot harder to stumble into an accidental kill.
Not sure how theyd pull that off.

Sure their strength is Social.
But social skills do not require empathy. Ask any sociopath.

If you're talking about unfledged WCs? They aren't told because the trauma makes them pliable to their elders. at least, that's what I recall Butcher saying on the subject

As for how they stumble into it? Well, with fear vamps they don't need to be the target of said fear- plus there is some mind whammy shit going on. (both themselves and the victim. Hunger tweeks their hosts to be better at gathering the right emotion.). Just being around someone sufficiently scared is enough- and once the feeding begins the fledgling basically frenzies. By the time they come to it's already over.

I don't think we've ever gotten an answer on how the despair WC's do their thing.
 
Sapphire Banishment ejects the Fallen from the body.
It doesnt yank the human soul out of the body like the Charm would have to do as an instant death Shaping effect.
Different things done.
Well first of charms are not shaping effects, they are charms which are an order of level above shaping or even Solar circle sorcery. If a charm say you die you die, it not a shaping effect it just happens. You might suddenly trip and fall to your death, but that happend after you died from the charm, even if fate records them falling to their death. Nice thing about charms effect happens directly no need for a cause.

Sapphire Banishment is Celestial Circle Sorcery.
The only thing stronger is Adamant Circle Sorcery, which is where you're ordering 3CDs around.

Countermagic does fuckall to Shaping in Exalted.
And when Dresden was under attack by an entropy spell, he didnt try countermagic either.
He ran and hid under magic defenses.
Word of Holden is all spells, are only as powerful as their first circle counter part do to the broken nature of the world. Second circle and up are level of effects are not possible, thou you can develop weaker version of higher circle charms. Why he put Sapphire instead of Emerald is likely just an over-site.
 
@uju32 can you also make a 8xp version of your plan?

I do not mind it winning but I also do not want it to be disqualified due to the change in xp.

Also what is the logic of going after Hollow Mind Possession now?

I mean, we have CHA - 3 and tech - 1. So we roll only 4 dice with no excellency and no buffer against 1s. I am not sure if we can reliably pull it off, especially since the difficulty is at 7.
 
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Well first of charms are not shaping effects, they are charms which are an order of level above shaping or even Solar circle sorcery. If a charm say you die you die, it not a shaping effect it just happens. You might suddenly trip and fall to your death, but that happend after you died from the charm, even if fate records them falling to their death. Nice thing about charms effect happens directly no need for a cause.


Word of Holden is all spells, are only as powerful as their first circle counter part do to the broken nature of the world. Second circle and up are level of effects are not possible, thou you can develop weaker version of higher circle charms. Why he put Sapphire instead of Emerald is likely just an over-site.
in fairness magic while not exalted levels is higher than world of darkness here so who knows especially in the nevernever where basically world destroyers can throw said powers out if provoked.
 
Not really sold on Hollow Mind Possession right now. It keys off Charisma 3 + higher of Computer 1 or Technology 0. Which gives us a grand total of 4 dice and no excellency. Dif 7 against 4 dice is maybe 1-2 success which only lasts a week for the latter. We need all 4 to make it last a year, and can't actually make it permanent.
 
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Well first of charms are not shaping effects, they are charms which are an order of level above shaping or even Solar circle sorcery. If a charm say you die you die, it not a shaping effect it just happens. You might suddenly trip and fall to your death, but that happend after you died from the charm, even if fate records them falling to their death. Nice thing about charms effect happens directly no need for a cause.
Not all charms are shaping effects.
But here, the Charm rips a person's soul out of their body and sends it to hell.
It IS a Shaping effect by every definition in Exalted.

Word of Holden is all spells, are only as powerful as their first circle counter part do to the broken nature of the world. Second circle and up are level of effects are not possible, thou you can develop weaker version of higher circle charms. Why he put Sapphire instead of Emerald is likely just an over-site.
Im assuming he meant that for WoD.
This is a crossover anyway, so the QM gets a say about how the power levels translate.
You arent expelling a Dresdenverse Fallen Angel or Nemesis with something rated to get rid of Exalted First Circle Demons.

@uju32 can you also make a 8xp version of your plan?
I do not mind it winning but I also do not want it to be disqualified due to the change in xp.

Also what is the logic of going after Hollow Mind Possession now?
I mean, we have CHA - 3 and tech - 1. So we roll only 4 dice with no excellency and no buffer against 1s. I am not sure if we can reliably pull it off, especially since the difficulty is at 7.
1)No point. If the GM shows up and says they made an error, I drop Appearance.
Like I said, the plan is built around Hollow Mind and what it does for Molly's knowledge of the setting.
Because information is how she knows where to apply force.

2) CHA 3 + Tech 1 + Stunt 2 at difficulty 7 will pretty reliably give you 2 successes out of 6 dice barring any 1s.
Which will give you a week of coverage. You roll better, you get longer duration, up to Permanent at 5 successes or greater.
And you can repeat at will as long as you have 1 Essence to spend.

And we're taken Charred Sinner Renewal for Essence regen.
With her Essence total going up to 12, Molly could afford to spend 3 Essence every day simply throwing Hollow Mind at various targets until it sticks, and still have 9/12 Essence in reserve.

In 30 days that translates to 90 separate rolls for putting demons helper spirits in stuff.
Im comfortable with the odds.
 
1)No point. If the GM shows up and says they made an error, I drop Appearance.
It is considered bad form to change a vote after people have voted for it. Especially since people may be voting for the Appearance dot as well.

So if you do change it, at least ping the people who voted for your plan so they are informed.
 
Not really sold on Hollow Mind Possession right now. It keys off Charisma 3 + higher of Computer 1 or Technology 0. Which gives us a grand total of 4 dice and no excellency. Dif 7 against 4 dice is maybe 1-2 success which only lasts a week for the latter. We need all 4 to make it last a year, and can't actually make it permanent.
4 dice can give you 8 successes if you roll all 10s and no 1s.
A hilarious consequence of the Storyteller system I only realized last week.
 
[X] Plan Survivability and Recovery
[X]Plan Information Supremacy


Any enemy that is smart enough to be a threat, is to smart enough to not make a wish. I assume Nicodemus is one of them, and not an fallen that is Anduriel. And no they explicitly can't stop us ripping the hold over their hosts, we are Exalted Galaxy busting is not nearly strong enough to stop an exalted. The White God sure the Angles no. As for the noose, so what Nicodemus if he refuses dies instantly do not pass go, do not take your coin, or you noose with you, go straight to hell game over.
You're assuming they'll make wishes themselves, instead of blackmailing us into granting specific wishes to disposable mooks or trying to sneak people past us to pick up wishes that way.

Or that they'll try to directly benefit instead of simply reducing the gains of an enemy.

Wizards are one of the most readily available groups that could gain serious power from VED, supposing they ever trust us enough to use it. If we did, the red court would notice and react.

The same thing applies to anyone we help who also happens to have enemies.

People unimportant enough to use this on without complication are also low level enough we can get them with other stuff.

I mean, the little folk can be bought off with pizza; demonic pacts aren't the minimum buy in here.
 
in fairness magic while not exalted levels is higher than world of darkness here so who knows especially in the nevernever where basically world destroyers can throw said powers out if provoked.
Eh not really in WOD mages are kind of god level reality warpers. Like all of the mage groups have off world Death Star sized bases with super laser firepower. Dresden wizards do compare fairly well to low to mid mages. But they would fold hard to any WOD Archmage.
Not all charms are shaping effects.
But here, the Charm rips a person's soul out of their body and sends it to hell.
It IS a Shaping effect by every definition in Exalted.


Im assuming he meant that for WoD.
This is a crossover anyway, so the QM gets a say about how the power levels translate.
You arent expelling a Dresdenverse Fallen Angel or Nemesis with something rated to get rid of Exalted First Circle Demons.
If it is a shaping effect it gets tagged as one. Shaping is the lowest level of effect in exalted, with a ton of counters. While the charm in exalted is shaping for granting the wish the consequences for disobedience the same as an Eclipse oath, no counter. They owe us an unlimited favor, they have to fulfill, or be cast into the hell's.

And GM confirmed we can rip the fallen from their hosts with the Exorcism spell. Suck to be born without inbuilt perfects. Shaping < Terrestrial circle sorcery < Celestial circle sorcery < Solar circle sorcery < Charms.
You're assuming they'll make wishes themselves, instead of blackmailing us into granting specific wishes to disposable mooks or trying to sneak people past us to pick up wishes that way.

Or that they'll try to directly benefit instead of simply reducing the gains of an enemy.
Mooks are great, now serve me faithfully for a year, or be doomed to the hell's forever. That is just handing us minions.
 
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