Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Quick question what sensory Powers has Mab ever had or displayed in comparison to the exalted with their known ability to literally look into different dimensions with just their eyes.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I have a very vague memory of us players asking about using the crown on... something? that was very closely reltated to the core of Mab's power/authority and DP said there was a chance she'd notice our 'poking'.
Honestly, I might be making that memory up wholesale.
Though I wasn't talking about 'perception powers', it was more along the lines of 'she has abstract domnion over this [concpetual space/topic]'.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Exalted are supposed to be rare. Enough so that borderline nobody even recognizes the term in this Age. They aren't just going to immediately guess that we have a perfect intellectus. That's outrageous. Besides if the only requirement really is that they hang around us long enough as we use it for missions to realize we have one then they're going to figure out we have it no matter what we do. The service is for a year and a day, following this argument it getting out to them is practically inevitable.
He said that they may be able to tell something is happening. Whether or not they'd recognize the mechanics and the near absolute effect for what it is was never stated. I don't think we should be comparing what maybe dragonblooded in some form to characters like
We were willing to use it on Nemesis knowing full well that Outsiders are aware of the previous Age with Exalted after fighting that Walker and they also got to roll to block it. Shortly after we started outing Nemesis plants. I could make the argument that they should recognize our Crown after using it directly on them yet we've seen no sign of that.
Exactly. If Lydia doesn't know then there's no reason to expect them to recognize it. DP has said that Molly is the first exalted walking around in however long. If Crown like abilities were around and encountered by them from other Exalted so often that they'd recognize the scope of something similar upon use you'd then have to explain where all these other Exalted went and why almost no-one knows of them.
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- Location
- Germany
[X] Free them under the conditions proposed
I distinctly recall telling you guys that it might be unwise to use in front of Titania in the heart of her power so yeah I probably gave the same warning relating to Mab.
It would come across as perfect intellectus is because we don't have any Dominion or Divine territory to look using regular intellectus to find out what he wants. The Archives intellectus is based completely and utterly on humanities transcribing of information. The only intellectus stronger or as general as the crown is that of angels.
I would just prefer we give them no greater insight into how it works the necessary and using it right in front of their eyes is not a great move especially when you're asking it questions about internal motives it seems like if there's any way for a person to notice an absolute effect working on them that's how it happens.
I'm fully willing to admit it might be paranoia but just not doing it in front of their face I think it's just a better idea anyway if for no other reason then we can keep our reaction on the low and then subvert or deal with them later.
Keep in mind the Crown isn't generally Exalted, it is the Crown of Eyes of the Infernal Exalted. I don't want to spoil too much, but it is unlikely that the Moon, the Sun or the Elements would grant similar abilities which leaves... The Sneaky Celestials (TM)
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
They don't know that we don't. They don't have our context as readers.
Again if they're going to be working for Lydia for a year and a day going on missions with us, fight with us, they are 100% going to be around when we use it.
I get that we're exalted and Powerful but we are still but we are not actually a god or being with true intellectus. They are also not citizens or people's of the court that we claimed either they're also 1,500 years from us from a different part of the world we have literally no reason to be able to use any kind of intellectus on them.
Yet again I don't mind them getting hints about how it works or them believing it some kind of very fast divination but I don't want them to be able to guess at the true nature of it which using it in front of them on them is a good way to tip them off that it might be that way.
Lydia understands probably the broad Strokes of how it works but she doesn't know that it's I can do it at literally any time on any Target if I have any Focus. I would prefer if they stuck to a Lydia like understanding of we have some level of information gathering capability that is beyond human but isn't seemingly omniscient.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Again as I said. The Knights don't know any of that. Molly does have intellectus outside of the Crown which even further muddies the water with possibilities.
And again if they're going to be going on missions with us for a year they're going to see us use it. Repeatedly. We aren't going to have the luxury of pushing them out of the room everytime we want to use it. This conclusion that they'll be able to tell what the Crown is in its entirety doesn't seem founded on evidence just what ifs and it's irrelevant because if they can they most definitely will later on.
Okay I feel like I'm going nuts. I don't mind them thinking it's some kind of Supernatural information going ability I don't care about that I just don't want to poke them in their brain meat while they're looking at us to extract information from them. Just like we shouldn't be staring right into the face of Titania and trying to extract information from her.
Lydia does not know the full extent of the crown. Lydia also has an occult of two as well as not particularly high awareness or perception. For some reason I don't think knights of the round grown men who came to an afterlife on a mission and apparently have excellencies to not be able to tell what a supernatural phenomenon that is actively probing their mind is.
Please note I'm not saying don't use the question on them I'm asking for just for a little bit of circumspection.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
We shouldn't use it on Titania a being of an different tier most likely with intellectus of her own, while in the seat of her power for an entirely different reason. It's really not comparable. And again the warning with Titania and Mab was that they may notice its use not that she'd somehow recognize the full scope of it. That is the fact that we can ask whatever we want and get an answer.
These guys are not going to have the, extremely specific and practically non-existent in this Age, knowledge on Infernal powers to know the specifics of what was used on them. Which is what your saying there's risk of, that they may realize it's an all encompassing effect and not just precog or intellectus of some form. They don't get reader knowledge. The concern doesn't seem rooted in reality.
I'm not sure why your still on Lydia. At any rate I never said they wouldn't be able to tell something is going on what makes no sense is thinking that they could recognize the Crown for what it is. We have no reason whatsoever to believe that.
I don't think particularly highly of either of the fairy Queens abilities of sensory perception. On the other hand I know exalted sensory capabilities tend to be rather intense (Ability to see through dimensional walls, The ability to see and sense creatures of Darkness, the ability to distribute their vision throughout every watery surface in area. Etc). Nemesis is only able to maybe hide from our Sight charm that maybe is because it's entire existence is based around becoming a part of another existence hiding itself. So with this assumption in mind if a being like Titania and Mab could tell under any circumstance what the crown is why would I be less careful with people who I suspect have more powerful sensory abilities. This suspicion may be completely unfounded but there is nothing gained in testing it though arguably there's nothing lost in testing it either but... Why.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I doubt he has any well defined plans he is working at a huge information lack. If he has any fixed plans then he's a fool.
- Location
- Brazil
It doesn't matter if you have consideration for them or not, they are still Incarna level beings responsible for their own dominion/authority, not in the slightest compared to only three dragonbloods, they would crush them whether in terms of magical power, esoteric capabilities or cosmic importance.
If the three notice something, a big if, they are much more likely to assume it is just a form of divination, not any kind of Inteletus. Furthermore, I don't trust Lyr at all, he seems to be the leader among the three and is very good at persuasion, the specific weakness that Lydia precisely wanted to reduce with the help of the dogs.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Why? They're some of the heaviest hitters in the setting and their role requires that they fight Outsiders at the Gates. Nemesis type Outsiders exist he's just the best at it. High perception abilities are a requirement for that otherwise everyone would be fucked by now.
Reread my post. I've said more than once that all DP said was that they maybe able to notice its use if we fire it off in front of them. He said nothing about them being able to recognize the Crown specifically or the full breathe of its scope. As to why I want to here's what I said when I presented the option of using the Crown-
That's my why.
Molly noticed that he apparently has a plan of some sort after being told what our conditions are and offering service under Lydia. Like Yog pointed out they've had nothing but time to plan for this moment and they've just used a lot of essence.
*Shrug* the question is for Lydia's sake. Instead of doubting I'd much rather just spend a mote to ask to nip anything problematic in the bud before they start hanging out around her for extended periods of time.
Unless you're an angel being an incarna or major hitter doesn't actually give you more abilities outside of your wheelhouse winter and summer have raw power and there's tons of raw power on display for both the queen of winter and summer there's also multiple Feats of them being snuck up on tricked and deceived as well as their lieutenants and nobility being subverted. Not to mention in general I don't believe either Queen actually possesses intellectus at all. Power is power but not all power translate to all senses like exalted power does.
Edit: I don't expect any exalted to match the juice of an incarna but I also don't expect incarna's abilities to be more than just having a fuck ton of juice and a particular area of influence. Making things cold making them dark making them windy and having bonuses in those environments and benefiting from normal fairy abilities are pretty much all I expect from Mab you can expect a myriad of different things from every exalt even of the same type.
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Silvereagle21
Soaring through the Sky
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Free them under the conditions proposed
Good night guys.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I found it. You are underestimating them by a significant degree:
- Location
- Brazil
I'm not really going to discuss the first part with you because I'm already used to the difference in the so-called capabilities of a faction and their achievements on screen, in several different media, which happen both to give the protagonist a chance to solve problems and for the problems to occur in the first, then we agree to disagree.
You are being very literal here about their powers, I will give examples taking into account that the Mothers and Queens must have more or less lesser capabilities, diverging in power, scope and conceptual depth: the Unveiling that Mother Winter gave to Dresden, the cane of her who acts as the BlackStaff and the plague of hope that was only made through the conceptual control of illnesses and extreme emotions that Summer has.
If we follow what you say, the courts would not be able to do any of this because their powers would be very direct. Not to mention that here they are a kind of modified rashaka, who knows what capacity they can still maintain at this time.
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That quote that you just put out there essentially says they're connected to a Cosmic force that would resonate when we use the crown not that they're sensory abilities are any good. Which is a point in your favor for using the crown in front of the demigods but not actually a point for either of the Queens having good sensory abilities in general. But I am willing to completely conclude mine is just complete paranoia but I just don't believe looking directly into someone with Supernatural Powers brain meat while they're looking directly at you is a good idea. If for no other reason then they can tell that you just used some kind of Supernatural ability while looking at them. Olivia literally just did that she just saw them use an Excellency just now and describe the phenomenon.
- Location
- Brazil
Yes, and ? The use of magical powers to gain an advantage or learn something in negotiations is the norm on supernatural world, just as we use our charm and excellence and they use their own excellence before. If we were using something on him you would have an argument because it would hinder future trust between us, but in these circumstances where it is use upon ourself? No.