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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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How about the Disney version?

Is it even Disney?
Taran and the Magic Cauldron.

Thinking back, that movie might be an insult to her father that a Disney manager will have to pay in weregild or blood.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I really don't think we should do it, but I was raising this thought in the context of Arthur's body being kept alive by the fey but his soul having long since passed to his proper afterlife.
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Why would we assume that his soul has passed on, though? Harry might have been a ghost with an option to pass away, while in coma under Mab's care, but it's not like this was done against Arthur's will. He doesn't want to pass on.

the DragonBard said:
You know, I wonder if Lydia ever read the Black Cauldron.
With the present events.
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I doubt she would like it. Arawn is basically just Voldemort there. Not even a slandered death god, like how most pop culture treats Hades, just an evil sorcerer.
 
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[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
-[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
--[X] Persuasion excellency
--[X] Activate: All Things Betray
---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.
 
[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
-[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
--[X] Persuasion excellency
--[X] Activate: All Things Betray
---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.

Still not entirely happy, but OK then.
 
[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
-[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
--[X] Persuasion excellency
--[X] Activate: All Things Betray
---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.

Arthur probably will wake before this quest is over. And that is fine. What both we and they should consider is that we are preparing the grounds so that that one gleaming vision becomes the truth upon that day. He might better the world but only if we do a great many things first.

I would like to see the man one day, decades from now and after studying the world and its ways, getting into politics. Possibly as the leading voice for, say, the EU.
 
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[X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge

[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2

I am desperately voting for any of the options that aren't "freeing the not at all remorseful dudes to do stuff" and feeling an insane amount of dejavu while doing so
 
Tied.
Adhoc vote count started by BoredMan on Jun 24, 2024 at 10:01 PM, finished with 64 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    [X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
    -[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    --[X] Persuasion excellency
    --[X] Activate: All Things Betray
    ---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.
    [X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge
    [X] BoredMan
    -[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    --[X] Persuasion excellency
    ---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age and relinquish their previous mission to resurrect King Arthur if deemed necessary. Whether or not he is brought back is not solely their decision anymore and further attempts to steal the Cauldron will be met with death.
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[X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge

[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
 
Serious question - why do people think that Arthur will be unreasonable / will not listen to what we have to say / will stubbornly continue on trying to conquer stuff if he wakes up? Moreover, how would he do that in the modern world?
 
Yog said:
Serious question - why do people think that Arthur will be unreasonable / will not listen to what we have to say / will stubbornly continue on trying to conquer stuff if he wakes up? Moreover, how would he do that in the modern world?
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With his dragon blood power? With remaining favors he can have with Summer? With future favors he can ask from his sister, Queen of Winter? With any amount of possible supernatural allies who still live and can still follow if he call or negotiates?

That he may or may not be irrational but it doesn't hurt to make preparations or have guarantees if he is?

I mean, this is all from my own perspective.
 
Azais said:
That he may or may not be irrational but it doesn't hurt to make preparations or have guarantees if he is?
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I would guess that even great King Arthur would take a bit of time to see how the world has become.

If he was genuinely interested in the conquest only to prevent massed chaos and suffering and wars, then he won't have a problem with the current European order. The world overcame the post-Rome chaos without him, if maybe not as smoothly as it could have gone.

Even if he's the kind of man to look for excuses to conquer, rather than be motivated by the desired peace, he'd probably go for some states in a worse condition, not western/middle Europe.
 
Azais said:
With his dragon blood power? With remaining favors he can have with Summer? With future favors he can ask from his sister, Queen of Winter? With any amount of possible supernatural allies who still live and can still follow if he call or negotiates?

That he may or may not be irrational but it doesn't hurt to make preparations or have guarantees if he is?

I mean, this is all from my own perspective.
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But the plan vote doesn't work for that? It plainly states - no resurrecting Arthur, and you also have to help us.

The favors are potentially an issue, if he is unreasonable and wants conquest for the sake of conquest. But, frankly, I have more faith in his character as a long-term Knight. That should be investigated, yes, but blankly stating "no, this guy doesn't get to return" seems to be an overreaction.
Artemis1992 said:
I would guess that even great King Arthur would take a bit of time to see how the world has become.

If he was genuinely interested in the conquest only to prevent massed chaos and suffering and wars, then he won't have a problem with the current European order. The world overcame the post-Rome chaos without him, if maybe not as smoothly as it could have gone.

Even if he's the kind of man to look for excuses to conquer, rather than be motivated by the desired peace, he'd probably go for some states in a worse condition, not western/middle Europe.
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I mean, there's the whole Red Court vs. White Council war, which he'll likely want to join because White Council, as organization created by Merlin is likely to be his natural choice of allies, barring all else, and South America could do worse that King Arthur as the head of their supernatural world.
 
Yog said:
I mean, there's the whole Red Court vs. White Council war, which he'll likely want to join because White Council, as organization created by Merlin is likely to be his natural choice of allies, barring all else, and South America could do worse that King Arthur as the head of their supernatural world.
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Generally agreeing, though I doubt Arthur would have much interest in the Masquerade or in only ruling the supernatural world when the problems in his area reach far beyond that into the mundane.
Like, there's little point in killing the Reds if you don't also clean up the Cartels and such.

[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
 
Artemis1992 said:
Generally agreeing, though I doubt Arthur would have much interest in the Masquerade or in only ruling the supernatural world when the problems in his area reach far beyond that into the mundane.
Like, there's little point in killing the Reds if you don't also clean up the Cartels and such.
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True. To be frank, I don't believe masquerade will last too long. Nemesis is actively trying to break it now, we are not fully invested in preserving it, and in many ways benefit from a world without masquerade, and the conflicts / magical activity is escalating. I expect soft breaking of the masquerade in at most two more years, likely less.
 
[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength

This is the most entertaining option, if supernatural predators refuse to change with the times then they deserve some ancient Heroes hunting them down
 
Yog said:
But the plan vote doesn't work for that? It plainly states - no resurrecting Arthur, and you also have to help us.
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The plan vote does not say that. All it says is that they aren't allowed to steal the Cauldron and that if they want to live amongst mortal men they're going to have to be willing to adapt. Actually read it.

Tied.
Adhoc vote count started by Vanguard_D on Jun 25, 2024 at 2:29 AM, finished with 74 posts and 26 votes.
  • [X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    [X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
    -[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    --[X] Persuasion excellency
    --[X] Activate: All Things Betray
    ---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.
    [X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge
    [X] BoredMan
    -[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
    --[X] Persuasion excellency
    ---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age and relinquish their previous mission to resurrect King Arthur if deemed necessary. Whether or not he is brought back is not solely their decision anymore and further attempts to steal the Cauldron will be met with death.
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Frankly I'm not seeing what's unreasonable about the plan. If we want to bring him back we can do so without having the Knights steal the Cauldron. It should belong to Lydia now as it was her father's. They didn't express any regret over what they did so they may very well try again what they did before. And considering that before they tried stealing the divine artifact from a God in his own territory the odds might not matter to them. We aren't even guarding the Cauldron ourselves as far as I know so it's even less protected.
 
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I think your plan is trying too hard to scare them out of thin air and the wording is too harsh. Plus I think that given the conclusion, even a formal confession regret them by the about the death of Arwan's wife is enough.
 
Ivar said:
I think your plan is trying too hard to scare them out of thin air and the wording is too harsh. Plus I think that given the conclusion, even a formal confession regret them by the about the death of Arwan's wife is enough.
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The wording is up to DP. I'm not sure what the issue is they're grown men they can handle having the reality of the situation bluntly stated. It's not out of thin air either they literally just asked what we want. They aren't to try stealing Lydia's Cauldron and if they want to live again it won't be as they did before. They never said that they wouldn't try again they explicitly said that they didn't regret their original mission that got them thrown into prison.

What the plan is asking for is the bare-bones.
 
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BoredMan said:
The wording is up to DP. I'm not sure what the issue is they're grown men they can handle having the reality of the situation bluntly stated. It's not out of thin air either they literally just asked what we want. They aren't to try stealing Lydia's Cauldron and if they want to live again it won't be as they did before. They never said that they wouldn't try again they explicitly said that they didn't regret their original mission that got them thrown into prison.

What the plan is asking for is the bare-bones.
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I'm honestly not sure that the wording won't affect the outcome and that's why I don't particularly like it. And while it's so aggressive in your plan, I don't agree with it. Your explanation of the plan sounds better than the plan.

I'm also not sure why they should regret the mission. It was a relatively noble idea, even with the theft. But their angle is clear and their crime is killing Arwan's wife. I think making sure they don't do something stupid right away is a good idea, but you're threatening them too much for no reason, like they're the Broken Seeker.
 
Ivar said:
I'm honestly not sure that the wording won't affect the outcome and that's why I don't particularly like it. And while it's so aggressive in your plan, I don't agree with it. Your explanation of the plan sounds better than the plan.

I'm also not sure why they should regret the mission. It was a relatively noble idea, even with the theft. But their angle is clear and their crime is killing Arwan's wife. I think making sure they don't do something stupid right away is a good idea, but you're threatening them too much for no reason, like they're the Broken Seeker.
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I think your taking it to personally instead of taking into account who we're actually speaking to.

They tried stealing it before and killed Arawn's wife. They've been imprisoned for centuries with nothing to do but think on what got them there and few boardgames and yet express no regret over trying to steal it. If let out it's a reasonable assumption that they may indeed try again. The Cauldron probably isn't as well protected as it was before as Awarn isn't active right now and Lydia didn't even know it existed until recently.
 
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