Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Why would them not being able to speak modern English be a hurdle? They can look into supernatural means as they have been when they decided on the Cauldron and that doesn't require that you know English. We don't know that they have no allies your just jumping to conclusions there.

The Fae process time differently and depending on how involved with the Fae Courts Arthur and his Knights were they could very well have immediate resources other than us after reaching out. Just because they decided on the Cauldron doesn't mean it was their only choice just what they decided on.
Well it is a bit of a supposition but everything we've seen so far of the fairies is if they had Direct help from one of the Courts they would have just broken into this place and stolen whatever the fuck they wanted without getting caught. By that point in history this particular religion is almost non-existent if they had the backing you're saying to get artifacts of Resurrection that means favors to the point of getting the armies of Summer to March or very least a large contingent of Summer and if they had that this place stood no chance. We know just the three of them were very close to breaking out on their own before David intervened if they had actual backing from the summer court it's a wrap.

There's also the fact in myth so this is with a massive grain of salt only three of the round actually had big inroads with the fairies that was Gawain, Lancelot and Arthur who in order was given a blessing of the Sun at some point in his life by fairies Lancelot was raised and possibly bourn by the Lady of the Lake and Arthur was granted his sword by the Lady of the Lake. None of the other members of the round had any particular connections to fairies outside of slaying trolls and other types of Supernaturals so it's questionable if they would have a relationship outside of being sworn to someone who has a connection.

Also the summer fairies gave an alternative they said they could not resurrect Arthur so we will put him on Ice if they could resurrect him they would have done so already because that's what he asked for to start with.
 
They're articulate and personable, but that doesn't stop them from being a problem. To an extent people who look at an unjust world and go "fine, I'll conquer it and make the damn thing just" are admirable, but getting into the fiddly bits of what counts as just can rapidly become unpleasant

Remember they're Nicene Christians in Sub-Roman Britain just after the Western Empire had collapsed.

From their perspective, Arthur didn't look at an unjust world and seek to make it just. They saw the collapse of civilization and decided they were going to cancel the apocalypse, which was basically what was happening from the perspective of the Romans and Romanised populations.

They wouldn't at all be surprised by that the Crusades don't start until the 11th century they got sealed in the 6th. I imagine they would be more surprised by the dissolution of Kingdoms pretty much around the world and the introduction of the Magna Carta which reduces the power of the monarchy still in Britain to essentially a ceremonial position.

They predate Islam. When they lived the seats of three Patriarchs of the Church were probably Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria, and North Africa and the near east were very Christian.

Arthur wasn't trying to reunite all of Christians that wasn't a thing yet the Holy Roman Empire didn't exist until well into the 10th century no he's trying to reconquer Rome which while it was technically a Christian Empire it wasn't the whole of Christendom. He was doing what essentially every Kingdom in Empire that would come within the next 700 years is trying to do become the next Rome.

I wouldn't quite agree. At their point Caesaropapism is the standard, the Emperor is in charge of the Pope, and the Empire is basically co-extant with the Church's influence.
I'm going to need you to elaborate on this. What we know about Arthur so far is he's dead and his body is being kept in stasis by the summer fairies.

I suspect he's dead like Harry Dresden was dead in Ghost Story.
 
Last edited:
Well it is a bit of a supposition but everything we've seen so far of the fairies is if they had Direct help from one of the Courts they would have just broken into this place and stolen whatever the fuck they wanted without getting caught.
They didn't want to steal it at first it that's why Arawn's wife read their fortune to see the possible consequences of bringing Arthur back. Then negotiations broke down after she said no so basically even if they had resources to pull to try and steal it they may not have thought to use them since they went to ask first. You can't get help from the Courts for free so trying their luck with asking for its use first instead of making deals before even asking might've been the plan. That depends on if they thought going in that if they were told no they'd make a fight of it but that doesn't seem likely considering a Death God was there and they were in his domain.

I'm not saying that they have the backing to get artifacts of resurrection. I'm saying that they may have connections to pull on to look into other means and that we shouldn't assume they have no allies when the Fae live for as long as they do.

There's also the fact in myth so this is with a massive grain of salt
There are too many different versions of the mythos in question for us to take them as fact other than some general bits like that Arthur was a king who wielded Excalibur. This is because it wasn't voted to do a level of research and or Crown questioning before this point. For example, It's very unlikely that this Arthur was given Excalibur by a Lady of the Lake since that's Angel/White God territory. Or the fact that Lancelot doesn't even exist in some tellings.

Also the summer fairies gave an alternative they said they could not resurrect Arthur so we will put him on Ice if they could resurrect him they would have done so already because that's what he asked for to start with.
This is true. Arthur's body is what's preserved in Avalon but his soul is in the afterlife right? That should be White God territory.

Alright I'm taking that bit about Arthur off of my plan then. Still the promise that they don't try and steal the Cauldron to make use of whenever Arthur dies and a confirmation on their willingness to adapt to modern society and the Masquerade seem imperative.

[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
-[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
--[X] Persuasion excellency
--[X] Activate: All Things Betray
---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death. If they wish to make use of it they'll require our permission first.
 
Last edited:
[X] Leave Arthur sleeping until Judgement Day comes, that seemed the thought of Saint David, wise enough to follow you'd judge
 
[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
-[X] Help us, knights of another time, a poor fit you might make in some ways but the world is poor itself in others and there are many trials needing your strength
--[X] Persuasion excellency
--[X] Activate: All Things Betray
---[X] Inform them that if they wish to not simply be freed to the afterlife and walk again amongst mortal men that they require a willingness and ability to adapt to the current age along with the Masquerade. Make it clear that further attempts to steal the Cauldron for their own ends will be met with death.
 
Last edited:
@Iron Roby sorry I changed the bit on my plan regarding Arthur. The only other vote I had for it was by my username so I didn't think to change the plan's name. I'll edit the name now just in case.

@Degorium You should change the name as well so the vote counter doesn't get screwed with.
 
Last edited:
@DragonParadox So Arawn has an artifact capable resurrection as long as there's a body? Does that mean Lydia has had access to something like that this entire time?
 
They wouldn't at all be surprised by that the Crusades don't start until the 11th century they got sealed in the 6th. I imagine they would be more surprised by the dissolution of Kingdoms pretty much around the world and the introduction of the Magna Carta which reduces the power of the monarchy still in Britain to essentially a ceremonial position.

I meant more the very existence of Islam and its original huge conquests, at the cost of Roman territories. Sub-Roman Britain predated Muhammad.

Also, Magna Carta was far from the end of real royal power. Henry VIII had enough power to force the entire country to switch from Catholicism. Charles I was executed by the Parliament, but his son, Charles II, managed to rule Britain as a freaking absolute monarch.

Arthur wasn't trying to reunite all of Christians that wasn't a thing yet the Holy Roman Empire didn't exist until well into the 10th century no he's trying to reconquer Rome which while it was technically a Christian Empire it wasn't the whole of Christendom. He was doing what essentially every Kingdom in Empire that would come within the next 700 years is trying to do become the next Rome.

The original Rome and its direct vassals was pretty much the whole Christendom, where did you think HRE got the idea? Outside of it were mostly only Arian "heretics" in Germania and some Nestorian "heretic" minorities in Persia (which was Zoroastrian). Independent Christian kingdoms only came to be with the collapse of the Western Rome, and Western and Eastern Rome were technically still the same empire, just with two emperors.

So it's hard to cleanly separate the ideas of how much it would be a secular desire to restore Pax Romana, and how much would it be about uniting Christendom.
 
If we do let them go it should be into someone's care. I'm highly tempted to show up in Langtry's office and tell him as a Merlin named Arthur these Arthurian knights are clearly his problem*, then just RVD away.
Politically speaking they are probably in the best position to handle any Fae relations these guys may have. I don't think we should do that before the White Council Outsider/spy issue is handled though. It'd be a shame if they tried to help with the Rampire war only to get set up by Peabody and die in some ambush.
 
So it's hard to cleanly separate the ideas of how much it would be a secular desire to restore Pax Romana, and how much would it be about uniting Christendom.

Molly could no doubt explain the way in which those things might be separate things, these are smart people and they understand that other models of governance and statehood exist, but it would have to be explained. Spiritual and material peace would be the same thing to them.
 
The original Rome and its direct vassals was pretty much the whole Christendom, where did you think HRE got the idea? Outside of it were mostly only Arian "heretics" in Germania and some Nestorian "heretic" minorities in Persia (which was Zoroastrian). Independent Christian kingdoms only came to be with the collapse of the Western Rome, and Western and Eastern Rome were technically still the same empire, just with two emperors.

So it's hard to cleanly separate the ideas of how much it would be a secular desire to restore Pax Romana, and how much would it be about uniting Christendom.
Rome despite its Christian Outreach and general influence was more known for being the empire then it was being Christian. It was the epitome of political and Military influence in this period of time. To become Rome was to become the center of the world to wield unprecedented power in all things not just Christian Centric power but power in all senses. Now there is a reason to say it's about uniting the faith but Arthur is a Welsh King. Even he as a Christian is not exactly Towing the party line as far as the Catholics go never mind what the people in the Basilica follow. The reason I assumed it was mostly secular is because he places down the sword. He is a Christian monarch but he had a clear sign from God that the blade would not support him in this action. So he was reaching for the wreath for other reasons that I don't think I can list them all but there's a lot of successor states that all tried to claim Rome and only some of them got anywhere near close so he wouldn't be particularly out of place. There's a e Myriad of reasons political monetary developmental and religious to try and become Caesar but the religious are kind of the least important at very least at that point.
 
No, this is the first time she walked in here and her father was cagey when talking about it, possibly relating to the story of its theft.
I suppose it doesn't change too much on our end. It comes with the consequence of turning them into a creature of darkness and requires that we move them before they die but we already have a means of reviving people.

I do have to wonder how that works though. This seems like White God territory since Arthur's soul is probably in Heaven right now the Cauldron would have to interact with it to retrieve his soul right? I didn't think Arawn had that sort of thing at his disposal.
 
I do have to wonder how that works though. This seems like White God territory since Arthur's soul is probably in Heaven right now the Cauldron would have to interact with it to retrieve his soul right? I didn't think Arawn had that sort of thing at his disposal.
It's probable that his soul stayed with him the whole time, thanks to Summer's preservation?

Otherwise this wouldn't be possible.
 
It's probable that his soul stayed with him the whole time, thanks to Summer's preservation?

Otherwise this wouldn't be possible.

You guys could call Lilly and ask, she would find being in this particular dungeon rather unsettling, but she likes you enough to show up even so. Choosing when and to whom to show up is one of the things fey can do without any debt incurred to either party.
 
It's probable that his soul stayed with him the whole time, thanks to Summer's preservation?

Otherwise this wouldn't be possible.
If Summer has his body and his soul and his body is in good condition wouldn't that be enough for resurrection? Then again moving souls doesn't sound like their portfolio.

You guys could call Lilly and ask
Ah yes the benefits of having good will with important people who are probably told things. Though this is what I meant earlier by stopping to gather more context on what's going on with Arthur and his Knights, it would cost us nothing to use the Crown but Lily would probably have to ask for a price to give that info.

It does seem more likely that the Cauldron just mixes the soul into the body, hence the name, rather than interacting with an afterlife.
 
Last edited:
Rome despite its Christian Outreach and general influence was more known for being the empire then it was being Christian.

From a timeless retrospective, yes. But for the people of the time? After Constantine, those two slowly started to stop being seen as different things.

He is a Christian monarch but he had a clear sign from God that the blade would not support him in this action.

In the role of a Knight of the Cross, sure. But just like how a monk having to be celibate does not mean God disapproves of all marriage, God disapproving a Knight of the Cross trying to restore Rome by conquest, wouldn't necessarily mean to Arthur, that God would disapprove a King of Britain trying to do the same.

I'm not saying that Arthur would (or at least couldn't be dissuaded from) take a map of all the current and former Christian territories and mark them for conquest. It's just that it would be conversation that would probably need to be had with him.
 
Last edited:
We are an Exalted Queen ourselves, and daughter to the current wielder of Excalibur. Maybe we are in the best spot to convince them that...

[X] Plan: Modern Problems Require Modern Knights v2
 
It's what you'd expect from an Exalt.

A mortal (or near-mortal) trying to pull it of does give some respect-points in my book.
I can respect it on one level, but I care more about if their vision harms people or conflicts with our vision of the same.

They were invested enough to kill a goddess in her own home while under guest right over it. They're sorry they did it, but they're still dedicated enough to pointedly not apologize for what led them here. I don't expect them to just nod along and pick up a new agenda.
Remember they're Nicene Christians in Sub-Roman Britain just after the Western Empire had collapsed.

From their perspective, Arthur didn't look at an unjust world and seek to make it just. They saw the collapse of civilization and decided they were going to cancel the apocalypse, which was basically what was happening from the perspective of the Romans and Romanised populations.
It was well meaning, but still a world domination plan as far as they were concerned.


This is true. Arthur's body is what's preserved in Avalon but his soul is in the afterlife right? That should be White God territory
I really don't think we should do it, but in the interests of fairness we probably have an actually functional tool to do so outside of the wheel, because it probably can't just yank souls out of other afterlives.

Second Coming (6 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of an Adornment.
In the moment of its user's death, the Adornment self-destructs in a brilliant pyrotechnic display
of unbound Essence, restoring her to life with one remaining unwounded health level. The
Splendor is permanently destroyed in the process.

That's ancient sorcery saying you're coming back to life now. If there's anything that could pick someone up from beyond the pearly gates, or whatever other weird situation their soul is in, it's that.


If Summer has his body and his soul and his body is in good condition wouldn't that be enough for resurrection? Then again moving souls doesn't sound like their portfolio.
If I had to hazard a guess they're probably explicitly barred from that sort of thing. The fey can buy your love of music and sell you impossible dreams, but they're never even implied to be involved in the soul trade. I doubt they have moral issues with it, so it follows they're not allowed to.
 
That's ancient sorcery saying you're coming back to life now. If there's anything that could pick someone up from beyond the pearly gates, or whatever other weird situation their soul is in, it's that.
That's cool but if we were to revive him and the Cauldron is indeed capable of it I don't see why we'd waste resources to make a probably regent expensive Splendor if we have a viable alternative via Lydia. Though it is possible that she can't actually use it due to the difference in power. Arawn would've had a lot more mojo than she does right now at his peak but somehow I'm doubtful that she can't use it. The Knights must've thought they could use it too or maybe they just got desperate in trying to steal it?

They were invested enough to kill a goddess in her own home while under guest right over it. They're sorry they did it, but they're still dedicated enough to pointedly not apologize for what led them here. I don't expect them to just nod along and pick up a new agenda.
That's a good point though. Maybe we should try leaving this Cauldron thing in the Five Courts if it's not in a safe place and Lydia is fine with it being moved.

@DragonParadox Can you tell us what type of protection detail it has without us asking in story?
 
Last edited:
That's cool but if we were to revive him and the Cauldron is indeed capable of it I don't see why we'd waste resources to make a probably regent expensive Splendor if we have a viable alternative via Lydia. Though it is possible that she can't actually use it due to the difference in power. Arawn would've had a lot more mojo than she does right now at his peak but somehow I'm doubtful that she can't use it. The Knights must've thought they could use it too or maybe they just got desperate in trying to steal it?
I really don't think we should do it, but I was raising this thought in the context of Arthur's body being kept alive by the fey but his soul having long since passed to his proper afterlife.

I can buy the least competent death god having something that can restore people from full soul ghosts, his own realm, and at least try for souls in the possession of other gods. I have significantly less faith in the idea that he can filch from actual Heaven.

The white god can and does dispatch fucking Celestines with a heaping helping of home team buffs to make them even more powerful when people threaten to touch mortal souls destined for his realm. Ancient Sorcery cheats enough I can buy being allowed to try. Anything less than that should probably have to wrestle an army who's average scrub tier member can snuff out stars.
 
Back
Top