Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
Acolyte said:
I like these doggo. I say we go into the prison and true kill Arthur, free the dogs from their prison
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Arthur is not here, and he likely doesn't even know they are here. He's in Avalon. Or, rather, his body is preserved in Avalon, just past the point of death. These are his loyal retainers, risking everything and breaking all laws to save their beloved liege and bring forth the golden future he promised.
Degorium said:
To be honest if these men beg for death I would not be surprised and it would be a mercy to give it to them at this point but I don't think they will and I don't think Molly's a cold-blooded murderer so something is going to go down here even it's just we'll expand your cells a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
True. I would, probably, make an argument for taking them to the City of Endings for professional help, but mercy kill is an option. Still, we shall see how beyond ridiculous their heroic willpower is.
 
Degorium said:
Not while the nagoloshi the spirit of fucking torture still walks this not technically forsaken world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We didn't let that guy live because anyone wanted him to or we condoned his actions in anyway so don't start with that. He believed that Molly had a hard on for betraying people so it made sense that he would expect to be betrayed by us in turn and have a contingency in place carried out by his many servants. He had attacked our friends once before there was nothing stopping him from arranging something in the background before the plane assault.
 
Degorium said:
You know there's no way we're killing these people right. Not while the nagoloshi the spirit of fucking torture still walks this not technically forsaken world. Not to mention the fact they've apparently been conscious this whole time in a Cell so small that the only thing they could do is play board games for the last 500 years and before that 1,000 years of not doing that. By any valuable metric they have served their time even if we can't take them back to Earth even if we can't do anything with them these men need like some kind of Rehabilitation because holy shit just trapped in a cage for fucking 1500 years. By the way most life sentences 25 to life means they spent 60 consecutive life sentences or 15 actual real life sentences of 100 years a piece but either way there's no crime they could have committed here that would warrant such an extreme punishment especially not in such confined quarters essentially till the end of days.

To be honest if these men beg for death I would not be surprised and it would be a mercy to give it to them at this point but I don't think they will and I don't think Molly's a cold-blooded murderer so something is going to go down here even it's just we'll expand your cells a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't care enough about them to argue in their favor after their idiotic actions but I agree that Arawn should have just killed them when his armies got their hands on them (perhaps through a very painful way like the dismemberment by horses of Chinese emperors to satisfy the thirst for revenge for his loved wife) instead sealed, it would have spared us and the dogs from dealing with the idiots.

BoredMan said:
We didn't let that guy live because anyone wanted him to or we condoned his actions in anyway so don't start with that. He believed that Molly had a hard on for betraying people so it made sense that he would expect to be betrayed by us in turn and have a contingency in place carried out by his many servants. He had attacked our friends once before there was nothing stopping him from arranging something in the background before the plane assault.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, @Degorium you using this as an argument in this damn situation is completely in bad faith and reduces any desire to continue arguing with you.
 
Last edited:
I'm still hoping we don't have to kill anyone in cold blood because people don't want to deal with a couple of people.
 
BoredMan said:
We didn't let that guy live because anyone wanted him to or we condoned his actions in anyway so don't start with that. He believed that Molly had a hard on for betraying people so it made sense that he would expect to be betrayed by us in turn and have a contingency in place carried out by his many servants. He had attacked our friends once before there was nothing stopping him from arranging something in the background before the plane assault.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Azais said:
I don't care enough about them to argue in their favor after their idiotic actions but I agree that Arawn should have just killed them when his armies got their hands on them (perhaps through a very painful way like the dismemberment by horses of Chinese emperors to satisfy the thirst for revenge for his loved wife) instead sealed, it would have spared us and the dogs from dealing with the idiots.

Yes, @Degorium you using this as an argument in this damn situation is completely in bad faith and reduces any desire to continue arguing with you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have way more patience for thieves than I do torture monsters. People who say we should just kill them it's like motherfucker they have been in prison for 1500 years if there was a time to kill them it was 1400 years ago. Not after they serve a sentence so far beyond anything a punishment could possibly be considered just. You're right mentioning the torture monster is kind of a straw man except for the fact that we can make Foci and have focuse on his location and know where his home base is this entire time we can make a nuke and go directly to hell but we can't kill that mother fucker yeah definitely. It's definitely easier to condemn men who have already been in prison for the last Millennia and a half that it is to kill a monster that we know the location of it can find it any moment and just haven't yet. But I brought it up because we have negotiated with beings infinitely worse than these two and none of them have ever been in prison for their crime so you'll have to forgive my impertinence and frankly kind of anger with the flippant talk of killing three men that have been wrongfully imprisoned for the last even by the most generous interpretations of grand theft and murder they've been in prison for 10 very long mortal lifetimes too long. Which considering their intent wasn't actually to kill the wife and the fact that they were taking a cauldron of Resurrection to be used in Mortal Affairs and tried to speak first I'm going to give them a shot more than we should just kill men who have definitely at very least served their time even if they haven't learned their lesson.
 
Degorium said:
You're right mentioning the torture monster is kind of a straw man except for the fact that we can make Foci and have focuse on his location and know where his home base is this entire time we can make a nuke and go directly to hell but we can't kill that mother fucker yeah definitely.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I've said nothing about our capabilities now in a different scenario. Only in regards to the plane. Don't bring up our actions during that clusterfuck as if it's relevant now. We worked with that guy because completely outnumbered as we were and after just barely saving our friends, it was believed that was the best way to get out of a bad situation. We got the Hell charm right before the plane assault because of that narrative point and by the end of it nobody other than Arianna and maybe a Rampire or two died on our watch.

The rest is this post isn't addressed to me.

Edit: We've been going through AP hell for a solid minute with a veritable list of plothooks and priorities without the ability to handle them anytime soon and more plothooks popping up every Arc. It's no wonder at all why no one thought adding burning an AP to their monthly plan to kill one guy and his followers, something that wouldn't advance our long-term goals, would pass the sniff test compared to other plans. If the thought would even occur to them that it was a priority with everything else going on.
 
Last edited:
Degorium said:
I have way more patience for thieves than I do torture monsters. People who say we should just kill them it's like motherfucker they have been in prison for 1500 years if there was a time to kill them it was 1400 years ago. Not after they serve a sentence so far beyond anything a punishment could possibly be considered just.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They were not just thieves of a very powerful artifact that was not theirs, they were the killers of a king's wife who spent centuries and millennia together, whose love for each other managed to survive in legend.

Furthermore, we have to take into consideration who is meting out the punishment here, you can make an argument that sealing until the end of the world is an unjust punishment if it were enacted by humans, as they cannot fully grasp this concept with their lives brief, but a god? especially a death god? He fully understands the penalty and its consequences. This argument fails because you only source the human perspective, not the divine perspective.

Furthermore, I would like to mention that Lydia is only willing to give them a chance to talk to them because she was not affected by their actions, not knowing her father's former wife or what he was like before. But I assure you if they had done this to Daniel under the same circumstances (him jumping in front of her to protect her and being stabbed with a sword) she would have had as much mercy for the killers as her father had or less.
 
Azais said:
Furthermore, I would like to mention that Lydia is only willing to give them a chance to talk to them because she was not affected by their actions, not knowing her father's former wife or what he was like before. But I assure you if they had done this to Daniel under the same circumstances (him jumping in front of her to protect her and being stabbed with a sword) she would have had as much mercy for the killers as her father had or less.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think she would just kill them. I have not yet seen her tendency to prolong problems with enemies or fairy shennigans
 
Azais said:
They were not just thieves of a very powerful artifact that was not theirs, they were the killers of a king's wife who spent centuries and millennia together, whose love for each other managed to survive in legend.

Furthermore, we have to take into consideration who is meting out the punishment here, you can make an argument that sealing until the end of the world is an unjust punishment if it were enacted by humans, as they cannot fully grasp this concept with their lives brief, but a god? especially a death god? He fully understands the penalty and its consequences. This argument fails because you only source the human perspective, not the divine perspective.

Furthermore, I would like to mention that Lydia is only willing to give them a chance to talk to them because she was not affected by their actions, not knowing her father's former wife or what he was like before. But I assure you if they had done this to Daniel under the same circumstances (him jumping in front of her to protect her and being stabbed with a sword) she would have had as much mercy for the killers as her father had or less.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, but who else holds the authority to forgive them than the next holder of that very throne? The punishment was mandated by the kingship that Lydia inherited. If there is anyone in the universe with the authority to declare clemency it is she.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
Yes, but who else holds the authority to forgive them than the next holder of that very throne? The punishment was mandated by the kingship that Lydia inherited. If there is anyone in the universe with the authority to declare clemency it is she.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Lydia did that, I wouldn't say anything, because as you said, she inherited the kingdom from her father and she decides how to dispose of the prisoners. But, even from the beginning, she didn't suggest releasing them, she suggested just taking the dogs who want, we voted to suggest releasing them from the beginning. That's my problem.
DragonParadox said:
"If we take all of them," Lydia points out reasonably. "I ask only for those who are weary of your vigil, of showing yourselves only to the dead and the dying, that again in flesh you shall live."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
Azais said:
I don't care enough about them to argue in their favor after their idiotic actions but I agree that Arawn should have just killed them when his armies got their hands on them (perhaps through a very painful way like the dismemberment by horses of Chinese emperors to satisfy the thirst for revenge for his loved wife) instead sealed, it would have spared us and the dogs from dealing with the idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thing is he is a good of death, killing someone for him isn't punishment, it is pushing someone up in the line that is mortal existence. Also pain is transitory, denying them death on the other hand that was the most terrible thing he could conceive of doing to them, the only one that came close to being proportional to the scope of their sins
 
Last edited:
Degorium said:
You're right mentioning the torture monster is kind of a straw man except for the fact that we can make Foci and have focuse on his location and know where his home base is this entire time we can make a nuke and go directly to hell but we can't kill that mother fucker yeah definitely
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
After thinking on it even moreso I don't believe that nuking him is an option either were we willing to spend AP on killing him. The nuke we dropped on Hell wasn't the tradition type it would have no positive effect on Broken Seerer. If he's near or in a populated area we can't use a traditional nuke and if we do after leading him to a deserted area whatever country we drop it in will be alarmed and start pointing fingers as to who did it. We could set off WW3.

The LoC doesn't have the authority to allow us to drop nukes on U.S. soil either. We really shouldn't be nuking non Hells or places on earth specifically if we can avoid it.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
Thing is he is a good of death, killing someone for him isn't punishment, it is pushing someone up in the line that is mortal existence. Also pain is transitory, denying them death on the other hand that was the most terrible thing he could conceive of doing to them, the only one that came close to being proportional to the scope of their sins
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks for explaining and that was actually my guess as to his motivesas well. But man, it would have saved us all that crap.
 
Azais said:
If Lydia did that, I wouldn't say anything, because as you said, she inherited the kingdom from her father and she decides how to dispose of the prisoners. But, even from the beginning, she didn't suggest releasing them, she suggested just taking the dogs who want, we voted to suggest releasing them from the beginning. That's my problem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So long as Lydia agrees it doesn't need to be her idea. There is nothing wrong with petitioning a monarch to allow something.
 
Azais said:
If Lydia did that, I wouldn't say anything, because as you said, she inherited the kingdom from her father and she decides how to dispose of the prisoners. But, even from the beginning, she didn't suggest releasing them, she suggested just taking the dogs who want, we voted to suggest releasing them from the beginning. That's my problem.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lydia's preference is to release them:
DragonParadox said:
"I... apologize," Lydia breaks the silence. "I'm not sure if I should be upset at my father for not telling me this at myself for even asking, even coming here. but know that I am sorry," she sighs, looking around as though expecting the owls to offer up some wisdom. "I think... they have been there long enough. Now or one day soon I will come and let them pass. "
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Yog said:
Yeah. But I think this (to her) is a choice between continued suffering and release / rest of death. If they want to try and live on, I don't think she'll object.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She won't object if we suggest it because she respects us, but her desire is just to kill them and let their souls go. Please do not distort her desires to improve her position.Freeing them as they wish didn't cross her mind.
 
Azais said:
She won't object if we suggest it because she respects us, but her desire is just to kill them and let their souls go. Please do not distort her desires to improve her position.Freeing them as they wish didn't cross her mind.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Her desire is to end their suffering. The simplest solution to do that for her is to kill them.
 
BoredMan said:
After thinking on it even moreso I don't believe that nuking him is an option either were we willing to spend AP on killing him. The nuke we dropped on Hell wasn't the tradition type it would have no positive effect on Broken Seerer. If he's near or in a populated area we can't use a traditional nuke and if we do after leading him to a deserted area whatever country we drop it in will be alarmed and start pointing fingers as to who did it. We could set off WW3.

The LoC doesn't have the authority to allow us to drop nukes on U.S. soil either. We really shouldn't be nuking non Hells or places on earth specifically if we can avoid it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He is close to a US airbase, you really really should not nuke him with anything the authorities would recognize as a nuke.

Anyway good night guys.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top