Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
BoredMan said:
I do wonder how it would be expressed in character and narratively though. Even Micheal doesn't have it set that high. Is max True Faith cult worshipper tier devotion? Anyone got any examples of how characters with max True Faith look from the outside?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe it'd be more representative of their spiritual biology than "normal" true faith? We're literally talking about faith in herself here after all. You could describe the relationship between mitochondria and your cells as faith from a certain perspective, or between your cells for that matter, allowing for a bit of personification.

Everything is dependent on everything else and will keep working even if it kills it. The unity of purpose and certainty that all the other parts are working together is baked into how multicellular life works.

So too between subsouls and their collective self; not just loyal, but spiritually expressing the kind of built in unity that turns a pile of trillions of individual cells sharing a glorified bathtub into a single creature.

I'm not really sure how else it could work in this context.
 
uju32 said:
Thing is, thats not how the True Faith from the Merit appears to work.

Its literally "the Divine is working a miracle for you and through you". Believing in Primordial Molly would have no effect; you cant just make up a religion and believe in it so strongly as to become a saint. Or, to reuse a joke, Ms Degurechaff, believing in the Chicago School of economics doesnt allow her to smite vampires with the force of her Faith.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is not true that is just not how true Faith Works you can have it specifically in things that aren't deities or gods. It is a relationship with faith a character has it is purely an internal phenomenon. Though you can argue it's Divinity working through a character it's the characters innate divinity. That Wishy washy stance might be because no game line other than fucking demon the Fallen wants to acknowledge the fact that God might be real but it Remains the truth no matter what you say you can't make up a religion but these beings that sprung into existence fully formed from Molly's Essence believing her to be to be all and end all of their existence isn't exactly a Step at all too far.
 
Degorium said:
That is not true that is just not how true Faith Works you can have it specifically in things that aren't deities or gods. It is a relationship with faith a character has it is purely an internal phenomenon. Though you can argue it's Divinity working through a character it's the characters innate divinity. That Wishy washy stance might be because no game line other than fucking demon the Fallen wants to acknowledge the fact that God might be real but it Remains the truth no matter what you say you can't make up a religion but these beings that sprung into existence fully formed from Molly's Essence believing her to be to be all and end all of their existence isn't exactly a Step at all too far.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You can not. Not in this Merit. Thats not how the Merit works.
I have the book open right here, and only the fact that I cant copy paste is stopping me quoting it. Faith magic in the Dresdenverse, and True Faith/Faith magic in VTM Inquisition are not the same thing and dont work the same way.

And none of that innate divinity thing here.
Else Nicodemus Archleone would be a True Faith 10 saint who has dedicated two thousand years of his life in the service of one goal and one person.
 
uju32 said:
You can not. Not in this Merit. Thats not how the Merit works.
I have the book open right here, and only the fact that I cant copy paste is stopping me quoting it. Faith magic in the Dresdenverse, and True Faith/Faith magic in VTM Inquisition are not the same thing and dont work the same way.

And none of that innate divinity thing here.
Else Nicodemus Archleone would be a True Faith 10 saint who has dedicated two thousand years of his life in the service of one goal and one person.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Harry uses his pentacle necklace and faith in magic to ward off vampires. Fairly sure that there is an anecdote about someone warding off a vampire with their wallet.
 
Mage 20th Anniversary Pg 644 - 646 said:
Strong belief is essential for a mage. You, however, hold stronger beliefs than usual. Possessing convictions in a greater outside power, you can channel that power for miraculous feats that go beyond mere magick.
Despite the usual association between Faith and Christianity, your character can belong to any sincere creed with an established moral code and historical legacy. (Sorry, but True Faith in postmodern satires like the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not count.) A Technocrat can hold True Faith too, although such Faith is pretty unusual. (See Technocratic Faith, Chapter Five, p. 184.)
Even Marauders and Nephandi can possess True Faith, although the Fallen version of this Merit inverts the usual purity associated with True Faith. Such Faith adds one die per point to Willpower rolls, offers countermagick rolls (even for characters who cannot normally use countermagick), and might allow the character to employ other miraculous powers at the Storyteller's option.
Faith is no simple thing. It must be lived as well as recognized. A person with True Faith strives to be an exemplar of her creed, suffers crises of conviction, and might find herself losing the Faith entirely. Conversely, she can also grow into a paragon of her creed's virtues, embodying everything good (or evil) about her Path.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Even if that ends up with the Clones being mostly Catholics that fully believe Molly to be a God because she's the creator of a world which means she possesses both a legacy and a future and direct and continuing moral stances that they are already to following via their creation.
That power does not have to be a god it can be the belief in samsara the triumph of logic over fallacy or let's say Molly Carpenter the primordial that brought a world into existence is a God. Pretty much anything that allows for a deep sincere understanding of both reality and yourself.

To believe in Molly(Fivefold Court) as the be all and end all is completely sensible especially considering they and I will state this again are literally Made In Her Image. Spring into existence fully formed via her power to disbelieve her a deity their deity specifically is kind of strange.
 
fictionfan said:
Harry uses his pentacle necklace and faith in magic to ward off vampires. Fairly sure that there is an anecdote about someone warding off a vampire with their wallet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes.
Some vampires in the Dresdenverse are susceptible to the whole holy symbol thing. Especially Black Court vampires. Reds as well, but we havent ever seen it as an issue for Whites.

Demons do not appear to be either; the Fallen are not nervous squaring up against Michael, or the other Knights, or even Uriel.

Does Harry seem like a person who has True Faith?
Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden? The dude who used to trade information with the demon Chaunzaggoroth?
The guy who shanked his own baby mama? Arranged his own suicide? That guy?

Fath magic exists in the Dresdenverse.
But it doesnt work the way this Merit claims it does.
Degorium said:
Even if that ends up with the Clones being mostly Catholics that fully believe Molly to be a God because she's the creator of a world which means she possesses both a legacy and a future and direct and continuing moral stances that they are already to following via their creation.

That power does not have to be a god it can be the belief in samsara the triumph of logic over fallacy or let's say Molly Carpenter the primordial that brought a world into existence is a God. Pretty much anything that allows for a deep sincere understanding of both reality and yourself.

To believe in Molly(Fivefold Court) as the be all and end all is completely sensible especially considering they and I will state this again are literally Made In Her Image. Spring into existence fully formed via her power to disbelieve her a deity their deity specifically is kind of strange.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
True Faith in M20 does not work the way True Faith in Inquisitor does.True Faith is certainly not something that the Nephandi, or the Outsiders, or devotees of (random god or ideal) appear to have access to in the Dresdenverse. And we DO see cults dedicated to Old Gods in this setting; none of them are walking around with True Faith.

Gard and her sister Valkyries literally serve the head of a divine pantheon, but they dont have True Faith.
The Einherjar were reincarnated by the power of said divinity, but they dont have True Faith in him.

If you want to buy the M20 True Faith Merit? They explicitly state:
M20 p645 said:
OPTIONAL RULE: POWERS OF TRUE FAITH​

Folks who possess True Faith often perform other miracles. As an optional rule, the Storyteller may allow a character with that Merit to channel her convictions into a range of holy (or unholy) powers:
• Conviction: By invoking the strength of her character's convictions, the player can spend a point of Faith like a point of Willpower.
• Healing: By laying on hands, the character can try to heal another character even if she lacks the Life Sphere. A successful Faith roll, difficulty 6, heals one bashing or lethal health level, and two successes can heal one aggravated health level. A character with malignant True Faith can cause damage at the same rate.
• Intercession: By praying for another person, the character can stabilize a sick or dying person, forgive sins, act as a "phone call to God," or perform some other intercession between a character and the Powers that Be.
• Penance: A firm or compassionate lecture might get another character to repent his sins and offer remorse and penance to the appropriate Powers That Be. Game-wise, this might demand a contested roll of True Faith versus the offender's Willpower. The difficulty is the offender's Willpower, although additional social-feat rolls during the lecture can lower that difficulty for the character with Faith. If the evangelist succeeds, the sinner hesitates, breaks down, or otherwise expresses remorse and potential conversion.
• Shielding: When assaulted by fire, torture, or other attacks, a Faith-full individual can try to soak the attack with a True Faith roll. Each success adds to the character's soak roll, even against aggravated attacks, for one turn. At the Storyteller's discretion, a successful roll might protect the character entirely; flames, beasts, temptations, and other torments might be diverted by a strong display of Faith.
• Transmutation: With a successful Faith roll, the character can transmute water to wine, turn fire to air, negate the effects of poison, or perform other miracles even if she lacks the Matter or Forces Spheres. Essentially, that character's gods direct their powers through their chosen one, displaying their powers over Earthly phenomena.

The Storyteller can, of course, create other miracles that suit the nature of the character and her chosen powers. As mentioned elsewhere, such miracles come from that higher power – that is, the Storyteller – not from the player. She can declare what she'd like to have happen, but the final manifestation of Faith... or lack of that miracle... is the Storyteller's call. Such acts – being miraculous, not magickal – do not invoke Paradox, even though they transcend Consensus Reality.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
These things you have been assuming are standard? Are only optional in M20, and are only enabled by QM whim.
And the features are very different between Inquisition and M20.

For example, the M20 True Faith Merit does not grant immunity to mind control, it just makes it harder, and only at high levels:
M20 p645 said:
Levels of Faith​


•
You might be able to drive away vampires with a prayer. (Faith roll, difficulty = vampire's Willpower.) Enemies of your faith feel uneasy in your presence. One die added to countermagick and Willpower rolls.

•• You can sense magick as if you had an Awareness Trait equal to your True Faith rating. If you already have Awareness, add this Trait to that dice pool. Your prayers can cause physical pain to a vampire or other powerful enemy of your faith. Two additional dice for Willpower and countermagick rolls.

•••
Intense devotion allows you to detect vampires or other supernatural beings whose essence is opposed to your creed. Such perceptions are intuitive, not perfect – you get feelings that suggest the presence of unclean things, rather than having an automatic Evil/ Goodness Detector. Night-Folk and mages whose nature opposes your Faith feel distinctly uncomfortable around you and generally try to corrupt you if possible, or escape you if not. Three additional dice for Willpower and countermagick rolls.

•••• Vampires cannot ghoul you, nor influence you with mind-altering Disciplines. Mages who try to sway you with Mind Sphere magicks add +2 to their difficulties. Your touch can burn powerful enemies of your creed (Faith roll, difficulty 7; one aggravated health level per success); and your prayers can harm enemies, or help allies, at the Storyteller's discretion. Four additional dice to Willpower and countermagick rolls.

•••••
An incarnation of everything good or bad about your creed, you drive opponents of your creed to their knees when you address their presence. Sinners weep in anguish when you pray; enemies must spend a Willpower point, flee when you approach, or make a Stamina roll each turn to remain in your presence. (Difficulty is 5 + the enemy's Intelligence Trait, because smarter enemies recognize how much they should fear you.) You can burn such enemies as above, or perhaps invoke other miracles at the Storyteller's judgment. Five additional dice to Willpower and countermagick. At this pinnacle, you're one short step away from your vision of Ascension.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And even there True Faith is capped at 5 points.

This is not something you slap onto a character for a convenient power up.
This is something you build the entire character concept and gameplay around in the full knowledge that acting OOC loses you the entire background; you dont have True Faith without Humanity 9+-equivalent behavior in Inquisition.


Now if you excuse me, I have to go back to searching through the Garou and Fera Gift list.
I still have to finish one more clone build before bedtime.
 
Last edited:
@uju32, since the beginning of the planning for the construction of the clones, questions have been asked several times about whether the clones can have true faith or if there would be any problems and @DragonParadox gave ok every time. For the love of God, drop the question.
 
Azais said:
@uju32, since the beginning of the planning for the construction of the clones, questions have been asked several times about whether the clones can have true faith or if there would be any problems and @DragonParadox gave ok every time. For the love of God, drop the question.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not having an immediate mechanical penalty isn't the same as it not having implications on a character. I'm not sure it's actually unmanageable , but we should probably have an idea of what it means for the character beyond the dice they roll that accounts for the weight of what we're talking about.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Not having an immediate mechanical penalty isn't the same as it not having implications on a character. I'm not sure it's actually unmanageable , but we should probably have an idea of what it means for the character beyond the dice they roll that accounts for the weight of what we're talking about.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't deny his weight, because like him, all these decisions are made of gifts or powerful merits that will impact the narrative of our clones, what I don't like is several people giving so much importance to a point almost in the final stretch and not during the almost three days where the creator was creating the plan.

Especially because the idea of choosing the True Faith merit has been circulating since the current version of the clone charm was chosen and after DP gave his opinion of no problem no one else has raised any issues with it. Until now.
 
My apologies this has taken this long, but Im about done with the last clone.
Gimme a couple minutes to collate this with the other clone builds and I'll put out the final draft.
Azais said:
@uju32, since the beginning of the planning for the construction of the clones, questions have been asked several times about whether the clones can have true faith or if there would be any problems and @DragonParadox gave ok every time. For the love of God, drop the question.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My apologies if this has bothered you.

However, Im pretty sure other people raised the narrative issues with the True Merit background; I know I did.
I just didnt bother to look up the mechanical workings of the Merit itself in the sourcebook until yesterday, when it looked like we would have to deal with it in play.
 
Final draft.
The final clone is the sorcerer/cursebreaker, that comes in part from the side of Molly that used to listen at doors, climb out of the window at night, and sneak into clubs with fake ID, and experiment with magic.

Its called Hidden Dragonmage because....well, you'll see :V
Source:
W20. W20 Book of the Wyrm. W20 Book of the Wyrm Companion.
M20 Gods and Monsters. Mage Revised. Wyrmfoe
=====================================

VOTE
[X]Plan Newborn Scholar
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Perception
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Wits
-[X][Power]Armored Skin
-[X][Power]Numbing
-[X][Power]Corpse Hide
-[X][Power]Disguise
-[X][Power]Sense The Unnatural
-[X][Power]Bestial Mutation
-[X][Power]Enhanced Bestial Mutation
--[X][Standby Power]Sirens Veil
--[X][Bestial Power]Exoskeleton
-[X][Power] Enhanced Super-Beast Mode: Intelligence 3, Dexterity 2
-[X][Power] Wicked Weapons of Malfeas: Hideous Breath
-[X][Power] Extra Speed
-[X][Power] Twisted Gifts
-[X][Power] Greater Gifts of Malfeas
-[X][Gift] Cybersenses(Glass Walker 1)
-[X][Gift] Apecraft's Blessings(Homid 1)
-[X][Gift] Plug and Play(Glass Walker 1)
-[X][Gift] Touch of the Muse(Black Fury 2)
-[X][Gift] Grandmother's Touch(Children of Gaia 2)
-[X][Gift] Coils of the Serpent(Uktena 2/Bunyip 2/W20)
-[X][Gift] Strength of Purpose(Philodox 2/Croatan 2/ Get of Fenris 2)
-[X][Gift] Pain Chain(Children of Gaia 3)
-[X][Gift] Universal Interface(Glass Walker 3)
-[X][Gift] Barring The Will(Black Furies 3)
-[X][Gift] Pulse of the Invisible(Theurge 3/Bunyip 3)
-[X][Gift] Mental Speech (Metis 3/Philodox 3)
-[X][Gift] Adaptation(Silent Strider 3)
-[X][Gift] Speech of All Things(Children of Gaia 3)
-[X][Gift] Trust of Gaia (Children of Gaia 5)
-[X][Gift] Assimilation (Homid 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Harmonious Unity of the Emerald Mother (Stargazer 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Break The Bonds(Galliard 6/Philodox 6/W20)
-[X][Gift] Home In All Lands (Red Talons 6)
-[X][Merit][Special Advantage] Soak Aggravated Damage: 2 (after discount)
-[X][Merit] Ability Aptitude: Occult: 1
-[X][Merit] Eidetic Memory: 2

=========
RATIONALE
35 points of powers+Gifts
5 points of Merits

==
NEWBORN SCHOLAR STAT BLOCK
-4DC to activate powers + gifts
-2DC to soak

+3HLs
+3 Perception, +3 Wits, +3 Stamina, +1 Dex, +4 Strength
+5 Stamina, +4 Dex, +5 Strength, +3 Intelligence and Appearance 0 when Bestial Mutation is active
+2 Charisma, +2 Appearance, +2 Manipulation when Siren's Veil is active

+1 Action/turn
X1.5 Speed


=============================
[X]Plan Newborn Regent of Sanctuary
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Perception
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Charisma
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Manipulation
-[X][Power]Armored Skin
-[X][Power]Numbing
-[X][Power]Corpse Hide
-[X][Power]Disguise
-[X][Power]Bestial Mutation
-[X][Power]Enhanced Bestial Mutation
--[X][Standby Power]Sirens Veil
--[X][Bestial Power]Exoskeleton
-[X][Power] Enhanced Super-Beast Mode: Intelligence 2, Wits 3
-[X][Power] Extra Speed
-[X][Power] Twisted Gifts
-[X][Power] Greater Gifts of Malfeas
-[X][Power] Font of Evil Will
-[X][Gift] Sense of The Transformation (Planetary 1/Meros)
-[X][Gift] Truth of Gaia (Philodox 1)
-[X][Gift] Apecraft's Blessings(Homid 1)
-[X][Gift] Touch of the Muse(Black Fury 2)
-[X][Gift] Grandmother's Touch(Children of Gaia 2)
-[X][Gift] Strength of Purpose(Philodox 2/Croatan 2/ Get of Fenris 2)
-[X][Gift] Mental Speech (Metis 3/Philodox 3)
-[X][Gift] Adaptation(Silent Strider 3)
-[X][Gift] Sense The Unnatural(Lupus 2/Fianna 3)
-[X][Gift] Territory (Red Talon 3/ White Howler 3)
-[X][Gift] Ease The Fevered Mind(Gurahl 3)
-[X][Gift] Reality's Path(Philodox 4)
-[X][Gift] Secret of Gaia(Silver Fangs 5)
-[X][Gift] Trust of Gaia (Children of Gaia 5)
-[X][Gift] Assimilation (Homid 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Ubermensch/Beyond Human(Homid 5)
-[X][Gift] Harmonious Unity of the Emerald Mother (Stargazer 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Break The Bonds(Galliard 6/Philodox 6/W20)
-[X][Gift] Home In All Lands (Red Talons 6)
-[X][Merit][Special Advantage] Soak Aggravated Damage: 2 (after discount)
-[X][Merit] Ability Aptitude: Occult: 1
-[X][Merit] Eidetic Memory: 2


REGENT STAT BLOCK
-4DC to activate powers + gifts
-2DC to soak

+3HLs
+3 Stamina, +1 Dexterity, +4 Strength, +3 Perception, +3 Charisma, +3 Manipulation
+5 Stamina, +2 Dexterity, +5 Strength, +2 Intelligence, +3 Wits and Appearance 0 when Bestial Mutation is active
+2 Charisma, +2 Appearance, +2 Manipulation when Siren's Veil is active

+5 Willpower(that can only be used for activating Gifts)
+1 Action/turn
x1.5 Speed


====================

[X]Plan Newborn Protector
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Perception
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Dexterity
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Wits
-[X][Power]Armored Skin
-[X][Power]Numbing
-[X][Power]Corpse Hide
-[X][Power]Disguise
-[X][Power]Bestial Mutation
-[X][Power]Enhanced Bestial Mutation
--[X][Standby Power]Sirens Veil
--[X][Bestial Power]Exoskeleton
-[X][Power] Enhanced Super-Beast Mode: Intelligence 2, Dexterity 3
-[X][Power] Extra Speed
-[X][Power] Twisted Gifts
-[X][Power] Greater Gifts of Malfeas
-[X][Power] Font of Evil Will
-[X][Gift] Speed of the Messenger (Planetary 1/Mitanu)
-[X][Gift] Apecraft's Blessings(Homid 1)
-[X][Gift] Sense of the Prey/Pulse of the Prey (Ragabash 2/Black Furies 2/Red Talon 2/Silent Striders 2/Get of Fenris 2)
-[X][Gift] Strength of Purpose(Philodox 2/Croatan 2/ Get of Fenris 2)
-[X][Gift] Mental Speech (Metis 3/Philodox 3)
-[X][Gift] Adaptation(Silent Strider 3)
-[X][Gift] Rending The Craft (Uktena 3)
-[X][Gift] Sense The Unnatural(Lupus 2/Fianna 3)
-[X][Gift] Attunement(Bone Gnawers 4/Glass Walker 4/ Silent Strider 4/Uktena 4)
-[X][Gift] Ignore Deathblow/Sidestep Death(Silver Fang 4)
-[X][Gift] Aegis(Ahroun 5)
-[X][Gift] Invoke The Spirits of the Storm (Wendigo 5/Bunyip 5)
-[X][Gift] Secret of Gaia(Silver Fangs 5)
-[X][Gift] Assimilation (Homid 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Endurance of Heimhall (Get of Fenris 5)
-[X][Gift] Howl of Healing (White Howler 5)
-[X][Gift] Harmonious Unity of the Emerald Mother (Stargazer 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Break The Bonds(Galliard 6/Philodox 6/W20)
-[X][Gift] Home In All Lands (Red Talons 6)
-[X][Merit][Special Advantage] Soak Aggravated Damage: 2 (after discount)
-[X][Merit] Ability Aptitude: Occult: 1
-[X][Merit] Eidetic Memory: 2


PROTECTOR STAT BLOCK
-4DC to activate powers + gifts
-2DC to soak
+2DC to enemy attack rolls when Aegis is active

+3HLs
+3 Stamina, +4 Dexterity, +4 Strength, +3 Perception, +3 Wits
+5 Stamina, +5 Dexterity, +5 Strength, +2 Intelligence and Appearance 0 when Bestial Mutation is active
+2 Charisma, +2 Appearance, +2 Manipulation when Siren's Veil is active
x2 Stamina when Endurance of Heimhall is active

+5 Willpower(that can only be used for activating Gifts)
+1 Action/turn
x1.5 Speed


===============================
[X]Plan Newborn Hidden Dragonmage
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Unholy Blessing
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Perception
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Intelligence
-[X][Power]Mega-Attribute: Wits
-[X][Power]Armored Skin
-[X][Power]Numbing
-[X][Power]Corpse Hide
-[X][Power]Disguise
-[X][Power]Bestial Mutation
-[X][Power]Enhanced Bestial Mutation
--[X][Standby Power]Sirens Veil
--[X][Bestial Power]Exoskeleton
-[X][Power] Enhanced Super-Beast Mode: Intelligence 3, Wits 2
-[X][Power] Extra Speed
-[X][Power] Twisted Gifts
-[X][Power] Greater Gifts of Malfeas
-[X][Power] Font of Evil Will
-[X][Power] Paint With Flesh
-[X][Gift] Blur of the Milky Eye(Ragabash 1)
-[X][Gift] Apecraft's Blessings(Homid 1)
-[X][Gift] Strength of Purpose(Philodox 2/Croatan 2/ Get of Fenris 2)
-[X][Gift] Mental Speech (Metis 3/Philodox 3)
-[X][Gift] Adaptation(Silent Strider 3)
-[X][Gift] Exorcism(Theurge 3)
-[X][Gift] Sense The Unnatural(Lupus 2/Fianna 3)
-[X][Gift] Summon Stormcrow (Shadow Lord 3)
-[X][Gift] Coyotes Mask(Nuwisha 5)
-[X][Gift] Ubermensch/Beyond Human(Homid 5)
-[X][Gift] Invoke The Spirits of the Storm (Wendigo 5/Bunyip 5)
-[X][Gift] Secret of Gaia(Silver Fangs 5)
-[X][Gift] Assimilation (Homid 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Thousand Forms(Ragabash 5)
-[X][Gift] Howl of Healing (White Howler 5)
-[X][Gift] Harmonious Unity of the Emerald Mother (Stargazer 5/W20)
-[X][Gift] Break The Bonds(Galliard 6/Philodox 6/W20)
-[X][Gift] Home In All Lands (Red Talons 6)
-[X][Merit][Special Advantage] Soak Aggravated Damage: 2 (after discount)
-[X][Merit] Ability Aptitude: Occult: 1
-[X][Merit] Eidetic Memory: 2


NEWBORN HIDDEN DRAGON STAT BLOCK
-4DC to activate powers + gifts
-2DC to soak

+3HLs
+3 Stamina, +1 Dexterity, +4 Strength, +3 Perception, +3 Wits, +3 Intelligence
+5 Stamina, +2 Dexterity, +5 Strength, +3 Intelligence, +2 Wits and Appearance 0 when Bestial Mutation is active
+2 Charisma, +2 Appearance, +2 Manipulation when Siren's Veil is active
x2 Stamina when Endurance of Heimhall is active

+5 Willpower(that can only be used for activating Gifts)
+1 Action/turn
x1.5 Speed


NEWBORN SCHOLAR EXPLANATION
1-2) Reduce difficulty to activate powers
3-4) Buff to Perception and Wits
5)Soak lethal with stamina
6)Wound negation + bonus health
7) Reduced DC to soak damage
8) Hide signs of active powers
9) Detect and identify supernaturals within 20 yards
10) Super mode that gives attribute buffs while active
11) Switchable mode that gives two options:
11a) +2 to all Social attributes and makes them appear as ideal woman/man/person when supermode is off
11b) Additional Stamina and Strength buff when supermode is active
12) Super mode upgrade that adds Intelligence and Dexterity buff
13) Ranged energy blast(DC5 Dex+Athletics) with range and damage of pistol with usual Firearms penalties
14) Extra free action per turn + speed buff
15) Unlock extra Gifts and allow the use of Willpower instead of Rage/Gnosis
16) Unlock Gifts above Rank 2 + allow the use of Willpower instead of Rage/Gnosis
17) X-ray vision, radar, sonar etc
18) Reduce DCs for using human-made or -designed tools, from crafting to driving a car to wielding a sword
19) Any computer is omnicompatible with any other digital device, regardless of physical ports, OS, or lack of wireless
20) Reduce social DCs
21) Heal self and others
22) 30 feet long telekinetic arms that can be used to grapple,carry, hold, perform utility but not attack
23) Automatically recover points of Willpower every scene with a roll
24) Discover the chain of command/responsibility of anyone who you are interested in, with faces and identities
25) Summon magic computer thats automatically connected to the Internet regardless of location(real world or NeverNever) and to Sanctuary/cyberdevil network
26) Recover full Willpower any scene that you make the roll
27) See into the NeverNever
28) Telepathy with a range of 10 miles*activation successes
29) Ignore poison, disease, temperature extremes and environmental conditions for several hours per activation
30) Read, speak and understand any language. Does not protect against infohazard
31) People trust and confide in you like a trusted friend and automatically assume the best of you. Wyrm creatures immune
32) Blend into any society, ignore all social penalties
33) Gives stat buffs of Crinos warform for the entire day
34) Immunity to supernatural coercion(mind control, emotion control, mind reading, etc). Break physical bonds on self and others like she has Strength 15, and banish mental bonds on others(geases, vampire blood bonds, etc) with a roll.
35) Teleport to any part of the Umbra she's previously been(Sanctuary, Avalon, etc). Teleport to any part of the world with wolves or Garou (probably replace wolves with people)
36-37) Soak aggravated damage. Normally 5 points, but since we can already soak lethal, reduced to 2
38) DC buff to Occult rolls
39-40) Perfect memory

============
NEWBORN REGENT NEW CHANGES
Exoskeleton: Strength and Stamina bonuses
Font of Evil Will: Extra Willpower for casting only
Sense of the Transformation: Medical scan
Territory: Mark land as own, then extend senses to area at will as if patrolling it
Truth of Gaia: Lie detector
Secret of Gaia: Perception buff. Social buff against spirits. General bonus to non-combat rolls
Ease The Fevered Mind: Cure mental illness and Derangments
Realitys Path: Check if what a person thinks is true is actually true
Ubermensch/Beyond Human: Social Excellency

==========
NEWBORN PROTECTOR NEW CHANGES
Speed of the Messenger: Multiply travel speed for the scene
Sense of the Prey: Find/track anyone you are familiar with, or have a focus for
Rending the Craft: Dispel magic buffs on others who you hit
Sense the Unnatural: What it says
Attunement: Scan the city for potential problems
Ignore Deathblow: 1x perfect dodge per scene
Aegis: Debuff enemy attackers
Invoke The Spirits of the Storm: Weather control, from obscuring mists to thunderstorms and tornados. Variable difficulty.
Endurance of Heimhall: Double Stamina for the scene
Howl of Healing: Heal everyone who can hear your voice

==========
NEWBORN HIDDEN DRAGON NEW CHANGES
Paint With Flesh: Physically reshape self or others. Also alter physical attributes and merits with sufficient successes
Thousand Forms: Shapeshift into animals or mythic beasts. Like dragons.
Exorcism: What it says.
Summon Stormcrow: Summon a spirit crow to perform a task, like spying
Coyote's Mask: When killed, leave a scrap of fur behind and reappear with full health within 10ft.
Blur of the Milky Eye: Penalties to Perception rolls to detect you
 
uju32 said:
That doesnt appear to be a rules legal build though.

Legendary Attribute unlocks the cap on an Attribute, it doesnt raise the Attribute.
Attribute 4 + Legendary Attribute is still Attribute 4; it just means that you can now pay XP to raise the Attribute above the mortal cap. Usually to a new cap of 6.

Hyperfocus doesnt work on true magik or sorcery, and we would want a crafter to work on magical shit.

Lucky appears to be legal. So does Long-Term Planning, though Im not sure if it applies to crafting.
I cant find Hands of Daedalus though.
But the first two tear the heart out of the plan.

You end up with a dice pool of 11(Dexterity 4 + Mega Dexterity 3 + Craft 4)
There's no time accelerators in the toolset, so you are working at roughly mortal speeds
And because DCs reductions appear to cap at 3, you cant go lower anyway.

Im....not really grokking the point.
Apecraft's Blessings is enough.

EDIT
To illustrate:
With Apecraft's Blessings active, your clone rolls Wits 8(Base 3 + Mega Wits 3 + Enhanced Super Beast Mode 2) + Craft 4 at DC6 (DC7 - BSM1) for an average of 6 successes.
That translates to -6DC on their next crafting roll as long as they are using human-designed or produced tools.

You literally dont need any other dedicated crafting merit or whatnot.
Any clone with Apecraft's Blessings can craft at need, you dont need a dedicated crafter. What you need are speed gifts to accelerate your speed, none of which exist in Werewolf as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is a crafting build, not just magic build.
Legendary attribute also has a "special feature" built in:
Beyond that higher maximum, you also get one heroic
capability that's linked to that Attribute. The Shango-strength
mage might always inflict at least one health level of damage
with hand-to-hand blows, while the Luciferian seducer could
score an automatic success whenever he tries to charm someone
who ought to know better. These bonuses are always subject
to Storyteller approval, however, and they don't kick in until
you reach six dots in the given Trait. Not even Lucifer, after
all, possessed his full charm when he was just a little devil…
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I expect them to function as an automatic success for crafting. I figure 10 total points spent on them is enough for this. Or (NOT and) for them to allow other merits to be used on magical stuff, up to @DragonParadox approval of whatever they feel best.

Master Craftsman (C20) has the following:
When designing, building, or repairing something, the
difficulty of your rolls is reduced by two. Additionally, you
require three fewer successes on any extended rolls required
when working on large or complex projects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's large scale project acceleration, and DC reduction on all design, craft and repair works. Notably, no note of magical projects being excluded.
Hands of Daedalus (3 pt. Merit)
You've got an innate gift for crafting machines and tech-
nology. Such devices seem to come to life in your hands, fitting
easily into place and functioning with incredible precision once
you've worked with 'em. Although this gift does not extend
to the ins and outs of software technology, you can work on
computer hardware (assuming that you know what you're doing)
as naturally as you can tune a '58 Ford.
From a systems standpoint, any rolls you make to craft, repair,
invent, or otherwise modify mechanical technologies are at -2
difficulty when you've got the opportunity to put those Hands
of Daedalus to work. Tech-based magickal instruments (see the
Mage 20 entries for Armor, Devices and Machines, and other
hardware-based technologies) and practices (see Craftwork
and Hypertech in the Focus and the Arts section of Mage 20, Chap-
ter Ten) function, in your hands, as Personalized Instruments
(Mage 20, pp. 503 and 587-588) once you've had a chance to
get familiar with them… and to have them get familiar with you.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hands of Daedalus are DC reducers for magical mechanical crafting.

We aren't just doing magical crafting. Large scale projects, like, oh, Porter's new train, should be well within the Heir's remit.

This basically ensures that we have a crafter who is always working at DC 3 (at most, some of the merits can push it lower, thus extending dice pool), cannot botch (I believe I can merit), requires less successes on all crafting rolls that require accumulation of successes, and likely generates automatic successes on all crafting rolls.

This combination of bonuses is much more than Apecraft's Blessing.

The attributes I plan to extend next turn with Lash's help as an AP.

EDIT: This is the build we use to give Michael KITT, to upgrade Black Rider, etc. The stuff that pushes the limitations on crafting at all points.
 
Last edited:
A note on True Faith: A SGI clone with True Faith will naturally cleave much more closely to Molly's morals than even Molly herself must. Their bar would not be 'Humanity', it would be 'Principles of the Creator'.
 
FURTHER EXPLANATION​
Essentially, the final clone is the best caster and best counterspeller in Molly's choir of clones.

When balling all out, Dragonmage rolls 13 dice of countermagick (Wits 8 + Occult 5) and 15 dice of casting (Intelligence 10 + Occult 5), which should translate to the magical oomph to handle most non-Molly class threats. And with Invoking The Storm, it can simply drop enough rain on a city to mess with a lot of large scale magic spells like the sort we saw in Chicago.

Secret of Gaia makes her great with non-dark spirits, (DPoE already makes her great with dark spirits)and Ubermensch is available as a social excellency. And because Exorcism keys off Manipulation, being able to raise Manipulation before ripping some spirit out of a person's head seemed like a good idea.

Summon Stormcrow allows her to call up crow-spirits to do work for her, like surveillance, or just harassment.

Also, it can turn into a dragon.
Birds as well, and cats, snakes, polar bears and other mundane animals, plus an array of mythics. But the thematically interesting bit is the dragon, hence the name.

Not a huge dragon, mind; for that we would have had to have taken the Body Expansion power, and I dont really see how much use that is to Molly on a day to day basis for urban encounters.
But we can probably get to the size of a full-size SUV comfortably, since

Also, Coyote's Mask.
Which I had to cross-check to see if it was real. It is(Players Guide to the Changing Breeds p136). And it is hilarious.
In my opinion, of course; not everyone shares my sense of humor.

Anyway, if the person had prepped the Gift beforehand, then uses a shapeshifting power to transform into something other than their natural form, if you manage to kill it, it sheds the skin(or shirt) and re-appears next to the body in its normal form.
With full health.

That means you can only use it once a scene, but honestly, that makes for 2x perfect defenses in the Garou/Fera moveset.
With the first being Sidestep Death.
Which really isnt bad.

But thats it. Done.
Any questions, I'll try to address a little later.

Now I can reboot my computer and see if I can track down whats making it freeze up occasionally.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
Not ignoring rank, you are building a Fomori, though you do have to take stuff like Greater Gifts of Malfeas to unlock higher level gifts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Degorium said:
Moreover do they only cost one PowerPoint no matter what their rank is?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
OK. To give context to this. Before W20, Mutations had points assigned to them. They were PC chars and had progression.
darkforcesmush.fandom.com

Fomori Generation

Fomori do not have to be cut and dry, or follow any particular set of rules. Let your imagination run wild. As long as it's creepy and wild, and as long as your players have fun, you can generate them however you'd like. However there are some who prefer more cut-and-dry stats, and this is a...
darkforcesmush.fandom.com darkforcesmush.fandom.com
Here is a link to how they were rated.

Article:
Garou Gifts (varies)
Some fomori Powers so directly mimic a Garou Gift that the player can purchase that Gift instead of creating a Power for it. In general, that Gift costs one Power point per level of the Gift +1.


And of those powers was gifted fomori. It allowed the purchased of two dot or less Gifts at a +1. So a 2 dot gift cost 3 points.

Now there was Greater Gifts that allowed the purchase of higher tier gifts, also at +1. So 6 rating gift cost 7 points.

What W20 did was do away with the points. So even Regeneration, which was 5 dots, now do not have costs attached. Since fomori were not PC powers and no progression. NPC essentially.

So the Question becomes, do all gifts cost 1 point?

In the old versions, you pay the full cost.

The question is, if I have to pay the +1 for all gifts or will one purchase of gifted/Greater Gifts be sufficient to purchase multiple gifts at 1 dot each.

This is what @DragonParadox has to answer.
 
Last edited:
[X]Pursuer of Diligent Scholarship V.2
-[X] True Faith - 10 points
-[X] Charmed Existence - (5 pt. Merit)
-[X] Soak Aggravated - (5 pt. Merit)
-[X] Dragons Never Die (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Jack-of-All-Trades (3 pt. Merit)
-[X] Acute Senses (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Lightning Calculator (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Persuasion (Level One)
-[X] Ability Aptitude: Academics (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Bale Armor (Level One)
-[X] Mental Speech (Level Three)
-[X] Wyrm Hide (Level Two)
-[X] Strength of Purpose (Level Two)
-[X] Harmonious Unity of the Emerald Mother (Level Five)
-[X] Unstoppable Warrior (Level Six)
-[X] Numbing 1 pt
-[X] Truth of Gaia (Level One)
-[X] Shadows at Dawn (Level Two)
-[X] Gifted Fomor 1 pt
-[X] Greater Gifts of Malfeas 1pt
-[X] Mega-Attribute: Intelligence 1 pt

[X] Burden Everlasting of the Dutiful Sovereign
-[X] Charmed Existence - (5 pt. Merit)
-[X] Dragons Never Die (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Jack-of-All-Trades (3 pt. Merit)
-[X] Enchanting Feature (2 pt. Merit)
-[X] Judge's Wisdom (4 pt. Merit)
-[X] Natural Linguist (2 pt. Merit)
-[X] Regal Bearing (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Poker Face (2 pt. Merit)
-[X] Confidence (2 pt. Merit)
-[X] Natural Leader (2 pt. Merit)
-[X] Command the Gathering (Level Two)
-[X] Speech of All Things (Level 3)
-[X] Assimilation (Level Five)
-[X] Persuasion (Level One)
-[X] Staredown (Level Two)
-[X] Infectious Laughter (Level One)
-[X] Truth of Gaia (Level One)
-[X] Mental Speech (Level Three)
-[X] Falling Touch (Level One)
-[X] Inspiration (Level One)
-[X] True Fear (Level Two)
-[X] Greater Gifts of Malfeas 1pt
-[X] Gifted Fomor 1 pt
-[X] Mega-Attribute: Perception 1 pt
-[X] Mega-Attribute: Intelligence 1 pt
-[X] Mega-Attribute: Wits 1 pt

[X] Maker of Immaculate Relics Untarnished
-[X] True Faith - 10 points
-[X] Charmed Existence - (5 pt. Merit)
-[X] Soak Aggravated - (5 pt. Merit)
-[X] Dragons Never Die (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Ability Aptitude: Craft (1 pt. Merit)
-[X] Gifted (3 pt. Merit)
-[X] Apecraft's Blessings (Level One)
-[X] Kiss of Helios (Level Five)
-[X] Diagnostics (Level One)
-[X] Sheng-Nong's Eyes (Level One)
-[X] Hyperfocus (3 pt. Merit)
-[X] Master Craftsman (3 pt Merits)
-[X] Gifted Fomor 1 pt
-[X] Greater Gifts of Malfeas 1pt
-[X] Numbing 1 pt
-[X] Mega-Attribute: Intelligence 1 pt
-[X] Mega-Attribute: Wits 1 pt
 
Last edited:
Yog said:
Is this from an expansion? In W20 core, mega-attributes are physical only (to be fair, I am guilty of this too).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't actually know. At this point I'm along for the ride if someone says it's legal or book legal or something I'm going to use it that's why I got both ability aptitude, gifted, Master Craftsman, greater gift of Malfeas. At this point there are so many things inside of my builds that take up points that are necessary for it to be legal but I have no clue what the actual text behind them are but I'm riding with it God damn it.
 
Yzarc said:
An explanation for the above please?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course. Minor Point recalculation gifts costing one point I had multiple merits left over and because gifts only cost one if you have the appropriate fomori power some got swapped out and replaced with equally thematic ones or ones that are strong and kind of match the concerns that were had about their positions.

Pods changes
Strength the Purpose allows a once per scene regeneration of willpower.
Unity of the emerald mother grants a 24-hour boost of four strength one dexterity and three stamina for one willpower while completely in human form. While also allowing them to make reflexive difficulty eight stamina rolls to recover one non aggravated Health level per turn for that 24-hour block.
Unstoppable Warrior treats all injuries as lethal rather than aggravated for the purposes of healing.

Beds Changes
The addition of the natural leader Merit lowers leadership role difficulties by two
Removal of iron will merit as it is redundant with true faith.
Speech of all things allows the comprehension and reading of any language on a successful academic roll.
Assimilation so I was a character to smoothie Blended any culture it also allows the character to and understand the culture's language completely reduces social penalties when interacting with members of a set culture.
Command the Gathering allows the calming of an audience to beckon their attention directly to the speaker on a successful appearance plus leadership roll.
Mega attribute intelligence wits and perception increase all of said attributes by three.

Miru Changes
The addition of Master Craftsman reduces craft difficulties by two
The addition of ability aptitude craft lowers the difficulty of craft actions by two
The addition of the Gifted Merit from Clan book Toreador lowers craft difficulty and arts difficulty by three
Master of fire swapped out with kiss of Helios. kiss of Helios is a considerably better version of Master of fire and allows the spontaneous generation of flames which allows the addition of flames that deal two additional aggravated dice of damage to every attack and allow the character to be completely unharmed by any natural source of heat and any unnatural source of Fire deals no more than a single bashing level damage per turn.
Mega attributes of intelligence and wit increase those attributes by three.

Edit: since this is the last update before the vote I'm going to tally all the mechanical effects out
Shared
True Faith
Drive Away vampires with a faith rating dice roll versus the difficulty of the vampires will power
10 Faith Points
The ability to use Faith points instead of willpower (Convictions)
10 additional dice to Countermagic rolls
Add true Faith rating to awareness straight for the purposes of detecting the supernatural.
10 additional dice to willpower rolls
10 Additional Soak dice
More True Faith
Charmed existence partially negate ones ignore a single one on every roll which increases likelihood of success and lowers likelihood of botching.
Soak Aggravated natively at difficulty 7
Dragons never die allows the stunting benefit of the exalted to be imbued. Which means no increase in difficulty from being cool or being extravagant possibly bonus Dice from doing said extravagant actions or cool stuff.
Numbed no Wound penalties three additional Bruised Health levels

PODS
Jack of all trades Eliminates additional difficulty to all skills with no dots or specialties reduces the difficulty penalty for knowledges.
Acute senses -2 difficulty to perception rolls
Lightning calculator reduces all math and calculation based Rolls by -2 difficulty (Academics)
Ability aptitude academics reduces all academics Rolls by -2 difficulty.( - 4 in mathematical situations)
Persuasion - 1 difficulty on all social rolls
Bale Armor - 1 dice to enemy attack rolls
Wyrm Hide 3 soak dice treat lethal as bashing difficulty 5 soak
Unity of Emerald-- +4 Strength +1 Dexterity +3 Stamina, one non- aggravated Health level healing per turn 24 hours
Unstoppable Warrior as elaborated above.
Truth of Gaia allows perfect discernment of truth from false does not tell what the truth is but completely allows to for the character to know being lied to.
Mega attribute intelligence +3 intelligence.

BEDS
Jack of all trades as elaborate above.
Enchanting feature voice -2 difficulty to all social rolls involving speaking.
Judge's Wisdom complete immunity to emotion affecting magics such as presence or mind or life-based effects.
Natural linguist grant's an additional 3 dice to art ,expression, etiquette and Leadership rolls.
Regal Bearing, -2 difficulty from social rolls when trying to make an impression.
Poker Face lowers the difficulty of intimidation subterfuge and resistance to intimidation by 2, grants a +2 difficulty malice for subterfuge reading or otherwise Gathering details from the character.
Confidence -2 to all social rolls based upon impressing others with character capabilities.
Natural Leader grants 2 additional dice on all leadership based rolls.
Command the Gathering, command both the attention and Silence of an entire room who wishes to interrupt or leave before they're finished talking must spend 2 willpower to do so.
Speech of All things allows the speech and comprehension of any language for scene.
Persuasion as elaborated on above.
Staredown causes a single Target to flee for the number of turns per success on five successes or more they just Flee for the rest of the scene.
Infectious Laughter calm arguments or cause people to lose their ire as long as they're not reminded.
Truth of Gaia as elaborated on above.
Falling Touch roll willpower immediately cause a Target to be pushed, thrown or otherwise put to the ground on the lightest of contacts with attacks or not. Target gains the prone condition after a successful usage.
Inspiration all comrades but not the gifts user receives one willpower point temporary.
True Fear cows an opponent for one term per success they cannot attack though they can defend themselves.
Mega attributes perception +3 intelligence +3 wits +3.

MIRU
Ability Aptitude Craft -2 difficulty on all craft rolls.
Gifted -3 difficulty on Craft and expression rolls.
Apecraft's Blessings any where from - 2 to -7 difficulty on the next action made with the tool from human hands.( depends on whether or not ability attitude and gifted stack or are applicable for usage with this Gift)
Kiss of Helios, spontaneous generation of flames that do an additional two aggravated damage in addition to base attack damage complete immunity to Natural flames and Heat all unnatural flames can only do one bashing damage per turn.
Diagnostics automatically identify anything wrong with any broken machine or apparatus double the speed at which it can be fixed and half the number of successes necessary to do so.
Sheng-Nong's Eyes getting an extra action per turn for the rest of the scene. No penalties from night fighting off hand or blindness.
Hyperfocus grants an additional three dice on any task that takes three or more hours to complete.
Master Craftsman -2 difficulty on Designing building or repairing as well as lower the number of successes by three on extended crafting rolls.
Mega attribute intelligence and wit +3 intelligence +3 wit.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top