Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
COMMENTARY
Lol Harry.
Interesting that Lash finds meeting Knights unsettling enough to require a Willpower roll. Perhaps its the angelic attention?
Michael appears to be Intelligence 3-4, Occult 3-4, Streetwise 2-3. 20 years of experience appears to count for something.
Hmm.
In theory that should be possible; wizards and clerics can merge Faith magic and normal magic, so I dont see any issue preventing someone figuring out how to do the same for fey magic and faith.
But if the parents had figured that out, I would have thought that would have been enough firepower to see off two Rawheads though, so if they actually figured that out and yet were killed, Im betting that it wasnt just the dead Rawheads who Michael killed who were involved in those homicides.
*double checks*
Rawheads are Winter Court Fae.
And Cathair, First of the Rawheads was one of the Nemesis agents we discovered in Winter.
Having them attack independent Summer scions and drive the survivors into the arms of a Nemesis agent would have required coordination between Nemesis agents in Winter and Summer.
That suggests Nemesis thought this was important enough to be worth risking two agents.
We probably want to look into this on its own merits.
I agree.
======
VOTE
[X] Find and speak to Katherine
RATIONALE
Im with @Yog on this one.
Our father's previous history here with the survivors provides a plausible alibi for Molly Carpenter to go poking around, and Molly has Anonymity Through Propriety to hide us from any lesser mooks and minions.
Furthermore, Cathair, Eldest Rawhead was one of the Nemesis-possessed we told Mab about.
So it provides a connection that we can provide Titania with, which she can ask about, if she so chooses.
OOC, thats a QM plot hook if I ever saw one. And not biting on it is just rude.
[X] Find and speak to Katherine
Nemesis Agents are Nemesis. It is worth keeping in mind that a hive mind with perfect communication is going to be a lot more willing to use disparate resources than a network which has to worry about say the dead drops being intercepted or codes being broken, at least as long as pawns do not know who they are working for.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Ouch. Good luck with this one. Underlined errors in order of reading are:
bread, honey not bread honey
over not mover
most of the not most the
takes not take
doubled up word
of not in
Sofia, were not Sofia were
taunted not tanunted
in not it
bread, honey not bread honey
over not mover
most of the not most the
takes not take
doubled up word
of not in
Sofia, were not Sofia were
taunted not tanunted
in not it
[X] Find and speak to Katherine
One thing that might be worth considering for you guys is if you want to bring Lash to talk to the Summer Fey. On the one hand she is a demon, on the other Summer has no particular reason to dislike the Fallen and Lash is new and interesting.
This seems needlessly convoluted.
We don't need evidence, we need testimony to our ability sufficient for Titania to take us seriously and check on her subordinates. We have that in Maeve already as long as we can get her to cooperate.
The cheapest way would be to do this after she owes us a favor, but we could also work out another deal if we're going to insist on doing it now. A barebones 1 dot
From there we don't need to screw around, our claim would be credible enough that Titania would need to act on it.
In terms of presentation, if we're going to do something as attention catching as using regular channels via a knight of the cross we might as well just ask Lily to request her presence or make subtly getting her attention part of the price we ask of Maeve.
Edit: wrong item type.
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Splendor, not prodigy, prodigies imitate mortal magic, a one dot prodigy is something like the shape-changing shoes you got Lydia.
This is sort of an aside, but it might be interesting to try making something to screw nemesis over as a detection tool.
I think we have a WoG from earlier that our organizational curse would at least briefly effect all of nemesis if we hit it. If that connect works for other deep enough effects a splendor might have some fun uses.
I'm thinking one based around this:
We can't make it inescapable, because the rules include a provision that that you have to include an escape clause of some kind, but we can abuse our very rare rare insights into Nemesis' nature to make it a real bitch to break.
We know that it was once part of something larger and was abandoned, which is a huge part of its motivation, and that it loves the thought of being whole again so much it sometimes makes strategic errors to enjoy 'living' again.
So how much fun would it have if we trapped it in an essence container after an exorcism and placed that with range of a fascination that made anyone within the AoE incapable of manipulation + subterfuge* until they honestly forgive the greatest grudge they hold against their relatives?
* or something like that
I think we have a WoG from earlier that our organizational curse would at least briefly effect all of nemesis if we hit it. If that connect works for other deep enough effects a splendor might have some fun uses.
I'm thinking one based around this:
We can't make it inescapable, because the rules include a provision that that you have to include an escape clause of some kind, but we can abuse our very rare rare insights into Nemesis' nature to make it a real bitch to break.
We know that it was once part of something larger and was abandoned, which is a huge part of its motivation, and that it loves the thought of being whole again so much it sometimes makes strategic errors to enjoy 'living' again.
So how much fun would it have if we trapped it in an essence container after an exorcism and placed that with range of a fascination that made anyone within the AoE incapable of manipulation + subterfuge* until they honestly forgive the greatest grudge they hold against their relatives?
* or something like that
whoops, my bad. Meant one and typed the other.
To my understanding, while a hivemind, there are different degrees of Nemesis infection.
From background nudges to full on Assuming Direct Control.
Nevertheless, canon Nemesis doesnt usually risk two or more agents in the same operation. When Nfested!Maeve was trying to breach Demonreach, and there was the Walker Sharkface offshore commanding an additional invasion of Outsiders, Justine was right there as an agent but kept her cover, laying doggo even when surprise reinforcement might have helped.
That Nemesis appears to have used two of them here, it makes me wonder what exactly was important enough to make it break pattern. That might be important enough to be worth Molly talking to Katherine.
If she wants to come, I dont really see the harm. And more importantly, I dont think Molly can see a reason to say no IC.
She cant exactly hide in Dresden's basement forever.
IIRC Dresden already had the brownie cleaning service as of Proven Guilty?
*checks* yup, he already does; in Chapter 47 of Proven Guilty they cleaned up Molly's shit and did her laundry.
We went in. My cleaning service had come through. Molly had left a bag with clothes and sundries spread over half of one of my apartment's couches. Now the bag was neatly closed, and suspiciously nonbulgy. I'm sure the cleaning service had folded and organized the bag so that everything fit in without strain.
Molly looked around, blinking. "How does your maid get in?"
"I don't know what you mean," I said, because you can't talk about faerie housekeepers or they go away. I pointed at the couch next to her bag and said, "Sit."
She did, though I could tell that my peremptory tone did not thrill her.
Molly looked around, blinking. "How does your maid get in?"
"I don't know what you mean," I said, because you can't talk about faerie housekeepers or they go away. I pointed at the couch next to her bag and said, "Sit."
She did, though I could tell that my peremptory tone did not thrill her.
Both the cleaning crew, and the Za Guard who protect them.
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Not the organizational one. It's far better than that:
Shadow Spite Curse (2 dots, favored Kakuri charm) affects all of Nemesis.
And it's a visually obvious effect. So, there's a two-step way to identify all Nemesis-possessed everywhere. Affect one, record video of the effect, then use the recording to ask for the list of everyone to have been affected by the same effect in the last 5 minutes.
I am fairly sure that once we study whatever the plot is, and unravel it, we won't need to use usual channels.
Yeah, conditions like "saying, with sincerity, that you forgive your larger self" or something like that are always fun. Not exactly sure we want to keep a piece of Nemesis contained, though. That's a lot of risk.
- Location
- Germany
Justine has zero personal power as a regular human, but a lot of influence and information.
Revealing her in any situation, nevermind next to an already attacking army of Outsiders, can't be worth it.
Pretty much, Justine was not entirely powerless, HWWB does give some measure of power just by being present, but nowhere near what it might give to a powerful supernatural being like Maeve, it's a bit like the One Ring that way... actually come to think of it it's a lot like the One Ring in many ways.
A Nemesis-infested human is not a regular human.
I know I've posted the post-battle scene in Battle Grounds where she displays superhuman strength in ripping a chunk of rail off a boat barehanded and the confidence that she could kill Winter Knight Dresden without help.
A five foot something woman against a six foot nine, two hundred and fifty pound plus superhuman wizard. And Dresden RAN.
There's a reason why I didnt want to risk Fix against a Nemesis-infested senior Summer noble.
This was the same scene where Murphy killed Maeve with a pistol.
Mab was in arms reach. So was Dresden, and Molly the new Winter Lady, and Sarissa the new Summer Lady, and McAnally. There was the potential for serious gains there.
Dude didnt go for it.
- Location
- Germany
Call it Battlegrounds weirdness maybe?
I just don't buy that a regular human with a possession that is first and foremost designed to be subtle to the point of being unnoticeable by almost any powers in the Dresdenverse is also enough of a power-enhancer to let a regular human match an experienced Wizard, especially the Winter Knight.
Or maybe Nemesis was bluffing, dunno.
There is only so much power you can pump into a mortal host, sure Mab was in arm's reach and she was in arm's reach of Mab.
Fair, but we can make something like this with what we have instead of whenever we have that charm.
Having a good reason doesn't necessarily stop Titania from being annoyed about something, and her whole thing is passion.
She's not an idiot, or wholly incapable of impulse control, but her thinking can clearly be biased. Pulling an emergency summon isn't an ideal way to handle this.
An indirect contact method that does step on her tail would be better.
I think a strong prodigy should be able to do it; a 3 dot is basically as strong as anything made by a good but not legendary wizard. 4-5 are peak of mortal magic effects. Essence containers are 1 dot, but paying more to build a stronger container fits the rules.
If that's not enough there's also this:
Which is a splendor grade effect.
Either way we set one up to catch nemesis in the aftermath of an exorcism, then toggle the other charm. Note that soul snare doesn't seem to have anything like a release on deactivation clause, so it should be fine baseline.
It's too bad this is too expensive an approach to do in the near future. This would be an excellent opportunity to set up a sting with Summer. If we could get away with a 1-3 dot prodigy cage and 3 dot splendor curse item it might be possible to fit in over the next turn or so, but not with more costly stuff.
Technically we could make a Hero's Shadow curse and skip actually trying to contain it, but that'd involve letting Nemesis run away with possession* of a minimum of a 4 dot splendor. I'm not as concerned as @uju32 is on this sort of thing, but that is asking for it.
*But not ownership
Dresden really didn't want to kill her, and had the issue that killing mortals with magic is a serious taboo.
Even if nemesis plants didn't count for that she didn't look like some monster from the Outside, overcoming his biases would have been hard.
If it could instantly infect with a touch the game would be very different*. The fey we saw fall seemed to be tricked or tempted into letting it in, which makes sense considering their role.
It doesn't make a lot of sense for Nemesis to pack combat power into its minions like this. Some small boosts sure, but staying hidden and making walking tanks are efforts at odds with each other.
*Maeve would have been better served finding some way to tag her mom instead of screwing with her canon plot for one.
Im not sure why not.
Vito Malvora canonically walked around with enough power to punk Dresden, Carlos and the entire top tier of House Raith and noone noticed. Hiding shit appears to be a specialty of Outsiders.
points above
Vito Malvora had enough juice to drop Dresden's entire contingent in the climactic battle scene of White Night, and noone was able to make a guess beforehand. And Whampires at base arent all that much different in physiology than mortals.
If you say so, I guess.
Didnt want to kill her, sure.
He was the Winter Knight, on a boat on the Great Lakes, with Alfred Demonreach at his back. Ice restraints were an option. Punting her with wind was an option
But he thought the safest option was jumping into Lake Michigan.
Now you could argue that he was simply too tired to be making good decisions, which is plausible.
But when the dude who just bound a Titan earlier decides to flee a confrontation after looking his enemy in the eye both physically and with magic, it implies things to me.
It's what the Outsiders do, apparently. If they couldnt hide their power effectively, they wouldnt be able to hide on this side of the Gates. Do recall that Nemesis can only infest an unknown but limited number of people at a time; if you're valuable enough to be worth infesting, it makes sense that it would go whole hog with the investment, combat power and all.
It was Halloween when true immortals can be killed, both Fae Ladies had literally just been chosen after their predecessors were murdered, and everyone else was in shock.
She could have crippled both Courts before being brought down.
Hell, if she'd intervened earlier, she could have prevented Dresden summoning Mab in the first place.
It just seems that Nemesis is averse to risking more than the bare minimum of bodies at a time.
Maybe it grows comfortable in them.
Maybe losing a body hurts, or disorients, or costs power that it takes time to rebuild, the way that Molly getting killed and respawning in one of her Splintered Gale Shintai clones makes her drop in Essence.
No idea. Too little data.
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- Location
- Germany
What did he do?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well to a large extent knowledge is power in DF. So Nemesis can likely empower long term hosts about as much as Denarians do. Justine could likely have broken out the super kung fu moves at least.
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Psychic whammy.
"Go!" Thomas shouted, and the other vampires with him broke from their line and fled for the gate, except for one, a tall female Raith who…
I blinked. Holy crap. It was Lara.
The other vampires fled past me, through the gate, and Thomas and his sister stood alone against the horde of eight-foot ghouls. Stood against it, and stopped it cold.
Their skin gleamed colder and whiter than glacial ice, their eyes blazed silvery bright, and they moved with blinding speed and utterly inhuman grace. His saber fluttered and slashed, drawing a constant stream of blood, punctuated by devastating blows of his kukri.
(Ah, right, that was the name of that inward-bent knife. I knew I'd remember it eventually.)
Lara moved with him, trailing her damp, midnight hair and shredded silk kimono. She covered Thomas's back like a cloak hung from his shoulders. She was no weaker than her younger brother, and perhaps even faster, and the wavy-bladed short sword in her hand had a penchant for leaving spills of ghoulish entrails in its wake. Together, the pair of them slipped aside from repeated rushes and dealt out deadly violence to one foe after another.
Ultimately, I think, their fight was futile—and all the more valiant and astonishing for being so doomed. No matter how lethal Thomas and Lara proved to be, or how many ghouls went screaming to the floor, their black blood continued to slither back into their fallen bodies, and the ghouls that had been taken down continued to gather themselves together to rise and fight again. Most of those who reentered the fight with renewed vigor and increased fury remained hideously maimed in some way. Some trailed their entrails like slimy grey ropes. Others were missing sections of their skulls. At least two entered the fray armless, simply biting with their wide jaws of vicious teeth. Beside the beauty of the brother and sister vampires, the ghouls' deformed bodies and hideous injuries were all the more monstrous, all the more vile.
"My God," Marcone said, his voice hushed. "It is the most beautiful nightmare I have ever seen."
He was right. It was hypnotic. "Time?" I asked him, my voice rough.
He consulted his own stopwatch. "One minute, forty-eight seconds."
"Thomas!" I bellowed. "Lara! Now!"
With that, the pair of them bounded apart, apparently the last thing the ghouls had been expecting, and dashed for the gate.
I turned to go—and that was when I felt it.
There was a dull pulse, a throb of some power that seemed at once alien and familiar, a sickening, whirling sensation and then a sudden stab of energy.
It wasn't a magical attack. An attack implies an act of force that might be predicted, countered, or at least mitigated in some way. This was something far more existential. It simply asserted itself, and by its very existence, it dictated a new reality.
A spike of thought slammed into my being like a physical blow—it wasn't any one single thought. It was, instead, a melange of them, a cocktail of emotions so heavy, so dense, that it drove me instantly to my knees. Despair flooded through me. I was so tired. I had struggled and fought to achieve nothing but raw chaos, rendering the whole of my effort useless. My only true friends had been badly injured, or had run, leaving me in this hellish cavern. Those who currently stood beside me were monsters, of one stripe or another—even my brother, who had returned to his monstrous ways in feeding on other human beings.
Terror followed hard on its heels. I had been paralyzed, while surrounded by monsters of resilience beyond description. In mere seconds, they would fall on me. I had fallen with my face toward the gate, and though physical movement was beyond me, I could see that everyone, everyone had also pitched over onto the ground, vulnerable to the attack while the gate remained open. Vampires, thralls, and mortal warriors alike, they had all fallen.
Guilt came next. Murphy. Carlos. I had gotten them both killed.
Useless. It had all been useless.
Marcone's stopwatch lay on the ground near his limply outstretched hand. He'd fallen next to me. The second hand was sweeping rapidly downward, and the watches on the charges of C4, the nearest of them about ten feet away, did the same.
Then I understood it. This was Vittorio Malvora's attack. This hideous, paralyzing brew of everything darkest in the moral soul was what he had poured out, as the Raith administered desire, the Malvorans gave fear, and the Skavis despair. Vitto had gone beyond them all. He had taken all the worst of the human soul and forged it into a poisonous, deadly weapon.
And I hadn't been able to do a damned thing to stop him.
I lay staring at Marcone's stopwatch, and wondered which would kill us all first: the ghouls or the explosion.
I blinked. Holy crap. It was Lara.
The other vampires fled past me, through the gate, and Thomas and his sister stood alone against the horde of eight-foot ghouls. Stood against it, and stopped it cold.
Their skin gleamed colder and whiter than glacial ice, their eyes blazed silvery bright, and they moved with blinding speed and utterly inhuman grace. His saber fluttered and slashed, drawing a constant stream of blood, punctuated by devastating blows of his kukri.
(Ah, right, that was the name of that inward-bent knife. I knew I'd remember it eventually.)
Lara moved with him, trailing her damp, midnight hair and shredded silk kimono. She covered Thomas's back like a cloak hung from his shoulders. She was no weaker than her younger brother, and perhaps even faster, and the wavy-bladed short sword in her hand had a penchant for leaving spills of ghoulish entrails in its wake. Together, the pair of them slipped aside from repeated rushes and dealt out deadly violence to one foe after another.
Ultimately, I think, their fight was futile—and all the more valiant and astonishing for being so doomed. No matter how lethal Thomas and Lara proved to be, or how many ghouls went screaming to the floor, their black blood continued to slither back into their fallen bodies, and the ghouls that had been taken down continued to gather themselves together to rise and fight again. Most of those who reentered the fight with renewed vigor and increased fury remained hideously maimed in some way. Some trailed their entrails like slimy grey ropes. Others were missing sections of their skulls. At least two entered the fray armless, simply biting with their wide jaws of vicious teeth. Beside the beauty of the brother and sister vampires, the ghouls' deformed bodies and hideous injuries were all the more monstrous, all the more vile.
"My God," Marcone said, his voice hushed. "It is the most beautiful nightmare I have ever seen."
He was right. It was hypnotic. "Time?" I asked him, my voice rough.
He consulted his own stopwatch. "One minute, forty-eight seconds."
"Thomas!" I bellowed. "Lara! Now!"
With that, the pair of them bounded apart, apparently the last thing the ghouls had been expecting, and dashed for the gate.
I turned to go—and that was when I felt it.
There was a dull pulse, a throb of some power that seemed at once alien and familiar, a sickening, whirling sensation and then a sudden stab of energy.
It wasn't a magical attack. An attack implies an act of force that might be predicted, countered, or at least mitigated in some way. This was something far more existential. It simply asserted itself, and by its very existence, it dictated a new reality.
A spike of thought slammed into my being like a physical blow—it wasn't any one single thought. It was, instead, a melange of them, a cocktail of emotions so heavy, so dense, that it drove me instantly to my knees. Despair flooded through me. I was so tired. I had struggled and fought to achieve nothing but raw chaos, rendering the whole of my effort useless. My only true friends had been badly injured, or had run, leaving me in this hellish cavern. Those who currently stood beside me were monsters, of one stripe or another—even my brother, who had returned to his monstrous ways in feeding on other human beings.
Terror followed hard on its heels. I had been paralyzed, while surrounded by monsters of resilience beyond description. In mere seconds, they would fall on me. I had fallen with my face toward the gate, and though physical movement was beyond me, I could see that everyone, everyone had also pitched over onto the ground, vulnerable to the attack while the gate remained open. Vampires, thralls, and mortal warriors alike, they had all fallen.
Guilt came next. Murphy. Carlos. I had gotten them both killed.
Useless. It had all been useless.
Marcone's stopwatch lay on the ground near his limply outstretched hand. He'd fallen next to me. The second hand was sweeping rapidly downward, and the watches on the charges of C4, the nearest of them about ten feet away, did the same.
Then I understood it. This was Vittorio Malvora's attack. This hideous, paralyzing brew of everything darkest in the moral soul was what he had poured out, as the Raith administered desire, the Malvorans gave fear, and the Skavis despair. Vitto had gone beyond them all. He had taken all the worst of the human soul and forged it into a poisonous, deadly weapon.
And I hadn't been able to do a damned thing to stop him.
I lay staring at Marcone's stopwatch, and wondered which would kill us all first: the ghouls or the explosion.
He did a successful psychic whammy on White Court vampires.
Lash sacrificed herself to free Dresden long enough for him to shotgun the dude in the arm and threaten him to drop it.
It should imply that there are factors other than his actual strength involved in the decision making.
Turning a baseline mortal into something that could win an unrestricted white room fight with a serious combat wizard like that without it becoming noticeable is ridiculous.
There's being risk averse and then there's being too cowardly to make seriously advantageous plays. If it could have taken Mab that easily it would have.
The two cases we have data on are Leansidhe and Maeve. The former got hit by taking - then using - a contaminated artifact of significant power, and the latter was an emotional mess tempted into letting it in for the ability to break the rules imposed on her. That suggests that it can't just infect a sprite and have it tag a major fey to ride around.
Nemesis is really good at hiding, but there are limits on that and it's not playing in the little leagues. It's also not really that helpful, because there are almost no cases where buffs that extreme can be used without ruining the utility of an asset.
- Location
- Germany
One good trick doesn't make a viable combat build.
This might well have been a long-prepared ritual to be used in a specific time and place.
We would ignore it and kill him by Charm-based fiat.
And also,this was clearly something Whampir-flavored specific to Vittorio, not a generic power Nemesis-pawns get. He clearly used vampiric emotion-mastery as the basis for creating it, probably with Nemesis-boosted Lore.
Doesn't mean Justine could use it.
In fact it is an example of what DP said, with Nemesis giving power according to what the pawn already has, comparable to the Ring.
A great power or ritual, but based in Vittorio's own nature and skill with Presence and Dominate disciplines.
Like the lesser Walker giving Skavis with his pre-existing skill at Chimerstry the highest power of that discipline at the party, if you remember.