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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Sorry my mistake Anonymity Through Propriety isn't actually from a favored hell.

[X]Plan gaining influence covertly
-[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
-[X]Anonymity Through Propriety(8 XP)
--[X] Lydia: 7 XP
-[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
-[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP


[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have a security blanket that synergies with our current defenses
-[X] Molly: 28 XP
--[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
--[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
--[X] The City Still Stands 15 xp
--[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
--[X] Hear Prayers: 2 XP
--[x]Save 1 xp
-[X] Lydia: 7 XP
--[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
--[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP


[X]Plan gaining influence
-[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
-[X]Ox Body x2 (6 XP)
-[X]Prayer Eating (•) (2 XP)
--[X] Lydia: 7 XP
-[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
-[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP

[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go

[X] Plan Stats and Followers
 
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[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have a security blanket that synergies with our current defenses

uju32 said:
Everyone else seems to have ignored the whole "Backdoor to Reality" problem in Vegas.
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Ita not a problem. Its a contained issue. Its a waste of pur exp to prepare for it. We have other things that actually need it.
 
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fictionfan said:
This is exactly what I am talking about you will come up with some specific unlikely threat and fear monger about how we are doomed if we don't buy some exact thing to counter it. What if we jump through the rift! Come on. We have no reason to even get close to it.
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What if we get TACKLED through the Rift. Or have to follow someone through it.
Both of which are legitimate issues, given our combat experience with the Pathfinder's servitors, Iku-Turso, and when we went after Corpsetaker-possessed Lydia.

Acolyte said:
Ita not a problem. Its a contained issue. Its a waste of pur exp to prepare for it. We have other things that actually need it.
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No it isnt.
Not if there's been a Nephandus sitting here for a couple months.
Its a lot like Iku-Turso's prison, just a lot more perilous, because whats on the other side is not just some Raksha.
 
To compare Hell-Walker Technique and Calling the Calibration Gate:
Hell-Walker Technique (•••)
Attuning herself to the emanations of the Spirit
World, the Infernal paces about until she finds a hidden
path that leads between worlds, and sets her feet upon it.
System: Spend 1 Essence and roll Wits + Survival
against a difficulty of the local Gauntlet. Success transports
the character into the Penumbra. By raising the difficul-
ty by 1 (to a maximum of 9) and spending 1 additional
Essence per ally, the Infernal can also draw other willing
characters into the Spirit World with her. This Charm may
also be used in reverse to return to the material world.
The character also permanently gains the ability to
understand the language of spirits and to make herself
clearly understood by them.
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It costs 1 mote, and it requires rolling against the difficulty of local Gauntlet (the thickness of the veil, essentially, as I understand it) with Wits+Survival. Molly doesn't favor survival, has zero dots in it, in fact (very much a city girl this one is) and has 3 dice total. You could probably argue CCC here, and other difficulty adjusters. Still, the probability of rolling 0 successes is not negligible. The charm scales with the amount of passengers we have. Do the passengers matter? If we are fleeing with a captive Sandra, yes (also, Nemesis-possessed might count as 2 beings, giving us additional way to detect them). If we are rescuing mortals? yes. If we are with Harry / Lydia? No, not at all.

Now, let's look at Calling the Calibration Gate
The sorcerer offers her Essence to the four points
of the compass, then strikes the ground. When she
straightens, an ancient, crumbling archway stands be-
fore her, granting passage into the otherworlds.
System: Spend 4 Essence and make an extended
Intelligence + Occult roll (difficulty 7). Upon accu-
mulating five successes, the Exalt summons a gateway
which allows anyone who walks through it to pass into
the Spirit World, Underworld, or Near Dreaming –
the sorcerer decides which upon casting the spell. The
Calibration Gate remains present for a number of
minutes equal to the sorcerer's Essence, at which point
it vanishes as suddenly as it appeared.
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It's much more expensive (4 essence), but it rolls Int + Occult, which are favored, and which we have excellency for (which raises the cost to 5 motes). The difficulty is fixed. The functionality is much broader - where Hell-Walker Technique only lets you move to Spirit World (I assume local "shallow" NeverNever), Calling the Calibration Gate also lists Underworld and Near Dreaming (can anyone tell me what that is?). I assume that we could walk into that Raksha's prison with it, for example. @DragonParadox ? Also probably into certain afterlives, and we got a confirmation that it even can open into Outside. The large plus and minus is that it's an actual gate. We could drive a tank through it, if needed. Actually... @DragonParadox would we be able to access our Kingdom with this? If yes, then this suddenly becomes much more useful. Because in three minutes, you could drive a high-speed train through it. That's bulk or near bulk transport of material. Forward deploying bases as it was.
 
fictionfan said:
Sorry my mistake Anonymity Through Propriety isn't actually from a favored hell.

[X]Plan gaining influence covertly
-[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
-[X]Anonymity Through Propriety(8 XP)
--[X] Lydia: 7 XP
-[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
-[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP


[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have a security blanket that synergies with our current defenses
-[X] Molly: 28 XP
--[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
--[X] Awareness 1: 3xp
--[X] The City Still Stands 15 xp
--[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
--[X] Hear Prayers: 2 XP
--[x]Save 1 xp
-[X] Lydia: 7 XP
--[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
--[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP


[X]Plan gaining influence
-[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) (20 XP)
-[X]Ox Body x2 (6 XP)
-[X]Prayer Eating (•) (2 XP)
--[X] Lydia: 7 XP
-[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
-[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP

[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go

[X]Yzarc
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This whole synergies thing is a silly argument.

It's not synergistic because it doesn't feed into making our soak stronger and it isn't being made stronger by our soak.

Perfect defenses don't benefit from our soak, but they don't leave us to simply take whatever damage is sent our way and potentially lose the fight from the penalties we've carrying around.
 
uju32 said:
This is a Social and Occult mission.
Social to pry her loose from the Dragon's court, and Occult when whatever she's going in Vegas near the Gates blows up in our face. Its Combat if the Dragon is under Sandra's influence.

It isnt covert ops. We dont need a perfect defense here.
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I would argue that any time we leave Chicago with any sort of goal that involves dealing with the supernatural, we should treat it like a covert mission for as long as we reasonably can. We're easily detectable by too many beings to ever expect to move out of our regular stomping grounds without being noticed and tracked.

BMI gives us the ability to simply exist without constant concern for enemies seeking us down or discerning our actions or involvement in events based on our location when shit hits the fan.

Ignoring the supernatural aspect, it also lets us move through the muggle world with unparalleled ease. Our age is no longer an issue, nor is our appearance. We can look like whoever we want to whenever we need to do it.
 
Yog said:
It costs 1 mote, and it requires rolling against the difficulty of local Gauntlet (the thickness of the veil, essentially, as I understand it) with Wits+Survival. Molly doesn't favor survival, has zero dots in it, in fact (very much a city girl this one is) and has 3 dice total. You could probably argue CCC here, and other difficulty adjusters. Still, the probability of rolling 0 successes is not negligible. The charm scales with the amount of passengers we have. Do the passengers matter? If we are fleeing with a captive Sandra, yes (also, Nemesis-possessed might count as 2 beings, giving us additional way to detect them). If we are rescuing mortals? yes. If we are with Harry / Lydia? No, not at all.
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BSM and a Stunt, and you're rolling 5 dice at -1DC.
That said, yes, we need Survival. Too much important shit happens in the NeverNever for us to not learn how to track and navigate in it, which requires Survival.

Reasonably sure a possessed person counts as 1 magically.
Anyway, Sandra isnt Nemesis-possessed; the fact that she had to come ask Nfected Maeve for information about Molly/Dresden makes it clear she isnt, because if she was Nemesis would simply know.

And Nemesis has limited possession slots IIRC, which is why a trusted agent is valuable.

EDIT
Besides, if Maeve thought it was a Nemesis-infested person, she would be pissed at Nemesis.
Not Sandra.
So she thinks she's an agent, not a host.
Yog said:
It's much more expensive (4 essence), but it rolls Int + Occult, which are favored, and which we have excellency for (which raises the cost to 5 motes). The difficulty is fixed. The functionality is much broader - where Hell-Walker Technique only lets you move to Spirit World (I assume local "shallow" NeverNever), Calling the Calibration Gate also lists Underworld and Near Dreaming (can anyone tell me what that is?). I assume that we could walk into that Raksha's prison with it, for example. @DragonParadox ? Also probably into certain afterlives, and we got a confirmation that it even can open into Outside. The large plus and minus is that it's an actual gate.
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Extended rolls.
And if we have to pop an Excellency cost goes up.

Yog said:
Actually... @DragonParadox would we be able to access our Kingdom with this? If yes, then this suddenly becomes much more useful. Because in three minutes, you could drive a high-speed train through it. That's bulk or near bulk transport of material. Forward deploying bases as it was.
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This is interesting though.

Not really necessary, because there is already no actual mass limit to the amount of stuff Molly can take out of her Hell at a time. She could stand on that train and move it in one piece.
She just has limits on how many people she can move simultaneously.

Calibration Gate would only be useful if you wanted to move an army of people in a short period of time.
Still, I dont expect it to work on somewhere thats essentially inside Molly's soul.
 
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Yog said:
Actually... @DragonParadox would we be able to access our Kingdom with this? If yes, then this suddenly becomes much more useful. Because in three minutes, you could drive a high-speed train through it. That's bulk or near bulk transport of material. Forward deploying bases as it was.
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No, your kingdom is too remote for this, this is for accessing places that are relatively close to reality, for instance the examples in the text say the Near-Dreaming not something crazy like Arcadia.
 
uju32 said:
Not really necessary, because there is already no actual mass limit to the amount of stuff Molly can take out of her Hell at a time. She could stand on that train and move it in one piece.
She just has limits on how many people she can move simultaneously.
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We have been limited by what people can carry.
 
uju32 said:
2) She's what oWoD would term a Nephandus. A highranking one, one trusted enough to know when Maeve was Nfested.
Effective enough that Uriel had to act to derail one of her plots.

Looking at the sourcebooks?
Dollars to donuts the Investments she has available would allow her to teabag a vampire elder.
Socially AND physically.

We arent blackbagging her on any street.
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That's quite the claim.

A Nephandus would be a corrupted/born-evil Mage.
We have no idea if she is equivalent to a full Wizard, I don't think she's ever shown great powers?
My guess would rather be that she's close to normal human-ish to avoid tripping alarms and detections and generally stand out.
And if you start with a regular mortal, or something like a Sorcerer, even some Investments can't make you into a combat-monster.

Her missions in canon were subtle, so it stands to reason that her skillset and powers (if any) are subtle too, not for teabagging elder vamps.
 
If we buy Verdant Emptiness Endowment I feel very comfortable bringing loads of our people to vegas comfortable in the knowledge that they all have a safeword in case they get into too much trouble.

Having loads of people is very useful for doing legwork and impressing. Many people just don't take you seriously unless you have a bunch of flunkies.

Also our people are that much more capable. uju32 using valuable XP on spys? One of our people can just wish for that.
 
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uju32 said:
No it isnt.
Not if there's been a Nephandus sitting here for a couple months.
Its a lot like Iku-Turso's prison, just a lot more perilous, because whats on the other side is not just some Raksha.
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No, its a minor character. She isn't a nephandus, not by a long stretch of the imagination.
And if all it took to open the door was a single agent than reality would be long dead, don't overeact.
 
Acolyte said:
No, its a minor character. She isn't a nephandus, not by a long stretch of the imagination.
And if all it took to open the door was a single agent than reality would be long dead, don't overeact.
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Maybe she is. If uju32 really has read this adventure. But am I not inclined to metagame especially based on uju32's perceptions.

Doubt she is a more dangerous wizard than say Cowl. But even if she is god level powerful that doesn't make his XP plan the right one.
 
Artemis1992 said:
She says she doesn't know in the same quote:
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The way she describes it is that something used to be able to come through and gave Death Valley the name.
Hence the old shamans got a spirit to sit there and keep the gates locked.
Which explains the whole "I need power to do this"

Yog said:
True, but it's much cheaper (by 5 motes at least), scales better when transporting groups of people, and strategically this is one more Ancient Sorcery spell for Molly to learn, and decipher something from.
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There's more useful spells up for learning if you just want to learn spells.
Given QM ruling that we cant use it to access Sanctuary, it drops a fair bit on my personal scale.

fictionfan said:
We have been limited by what people can carry.
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Citation?

Artemis1992 said:
That's quite the claim.

A Nephandus would be a corrupted/born-evil Mage.
We have no idea if she is equivalent to a full Wizard, I don't think she's ever shown great powers?
My guess would rather be that she's close to normal human-ish to avoid tripping alarms and detections and generally stand out.
And if you start with a regular mortal, or something like a Sorcerer, even some Investments can't make you into a combat-monster.

Her missions in canon were subtle, so it stands to reason that her skillset and powers (if any) are subtle too, not for teabagging elder vamps.
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In the Dresden Files, every mortal is a little bit magic and can work ritual magic.

I'll go further:
Sandra is an adsinistratus Nephandus of either the K'llasshaa or Malfean faction.
Being subtle workers is kinda their thing.

The fact that she doesnt do combat missions as a primary role (as far as we know) doesnt mean she isnt a terrifying combatant at need. See Vittorio Malvora's political maneuvering, and yet being able to simultaneously take down every surviving combatant in the Raith Deeps, from Lara Raith to Dresden.

Acolyte said:
No, its a minor character. She isn't a nephandus, not by a long stretch of the imagination.
And if all it took to open the door was a single agent than reality would be long dead, don't overeact.
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She was knowingly working towards a Nemesis plot to kill a Starborn and destabilize the White Council.
She's Nephandi, or the local equivalent thereof.

She's not even the only ones we've seen around.

Vittorio Malvora is knowingly possessed by an Outsider, and using its power against his enemies. Nephandi.
The Sisters of the Stygian Sisterhood were trying to bring the Old Ones back, and performed psychic surgery on themselves to graft inhuman grafts into their psyche for extra power. Nephandi.

The Church of the Holy Ascension of Our Lord worshipped the Sleeper, and were basically the platonic ideal of a Lovecraftian cult, complete with dark magic and mutations and blood sacrifices.
Nephandi.
Acolyte said:
And if all it took to open the door was a single agent than reality would be long dead, don't overeact.
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Respectfully?
There's a....complacency here that I dont think is warranted by the facts on the ground.
 
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fictionfan said:
Maybe she is. If uju32 really has read this adventure. But am I not inclined to metagame especially based on uju32's perceptions.

Doubt she is a more dangerous wizard than say Cowl. But even if she is god level powerful that doesn't make his XP plan the right one.
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The adventure is a DFRPG one, not a WoD one, and it was set after Dresden wiped out the Red Court.
Sandra does not show up in that scenario, but Las Vegas as a setting and the Dragon as a background(freshly dead) character both do to my recollection.

Danger level does not correlate with personal combat ability.
She has no need to match or exceed Cowl. Cowl was a wizard with aspirations to godhood. Sandra is an agent of Lovecraftian entities from outside reality. Different specs.

Some backup on call, both mortal and not, plus some of the Investments from ExWoD's Anathema chapter?
Or, alternatively, Investments from the Baali from V20?
You'd be impressed. Or horrified as the case may be.
 
[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go

As usual the actual Exalted mechanics make my eyes cross. I understand standard WoD and the Dresden Files setting but, while I know about Exalted, trying to teach me the actual mechanics is like actually trying to teach a dog poker. At best I can hold the cards and pose for the painter.
 
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uju32 said:
There's more useful spells up for learning if you just want to learn spells.
Given QM ruling that we cant use it to access Sanctuary, it drops a fair bit on my personal scale.
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It is still better to get it and SCCP than Hell-Walker Technique. We get more broad functionality like this. For example, I would expect that we would be able to get into Iku-Tsuko's prison with it, but not with Hell-Walker technique. Or, more relevantly, into whatever it is on the other side of the breach / gate / whatever is in Las-Vegas.
 
Well this is a remarkably contentious vote, currently ill stick with this as my vote, will give it a think about changing it later, but it seems to cover most of the bases despite the lack of a boost to Awareness & Survival

[X] Plan Appropriate Wherever I go
-[X] Molly: 28 XP
--[X] Anonymity Through Propriety: 8 XP
--[X] Calling the Calibration Gate: 10 XP
--[X] Source Code Compliance Protocol: 4 XP
--[X] Alertness 1: 3xp
--[X] Ox Body: 3 XP
-[X] Lydia: 7 XP
--[X] Mo Kung/Demon Fighter (•) (Training Discount): 2xp
--[X] Willpower 6: 5 XP
 
Yog said:
It is still better to get it and SCCP than Hell-Walker Technique. We get more broad functionality like this. For example, I would expect that we would be able to get into Iku-Tsuko's prison with it, but not with Hell-Walker technique. Or, more relevantly, into whatever it is on the other side of the breach / gate / whatever is in Las-Vegas.
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Not if we have to burn a third of our current Essence to use it reliably.
At least thats my current opinion.

I am not saying its not useful.
I just dont think its the appropriate buy for this situation.
Acolyte said:
I mean ability wise.
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All we know about her ability is that she was subtle and ballsy enough to operate in a city with a Knight of the Cross and a massive Fae presence, coordinate with a Nemesis-infested Winter Lady and get away with it. She fucked Molly good, and if Maeve hadnt told us that she was an agent, IC Molly would have had no idea.

That speaks to immense competence.

The fact that she didnt get into fights is further proof of that competence.
We know nothing about her combat ability; remember, Vittorio Malvora studiously avoided getting into fights with Dresden because it didnt suit his aims.

Then when he did get into a fight, he sandbagged until he got the go ahead to cut loose.
At which point Lash had to sacrifice herself, or Dresden and his friends would have died.
Acolyte said:
I can say there is a paranoia there that is not borne by facts on the ground.
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Arianna put a skinwalker on our ass , and an archangel thought it worth taking time out of his busy schedule to give us specific warning about the Denarians. We are in the cross sights of enough heavy sitters to pucker my arsehole.
Especially going to a city run by a spirit brawny enough to keep a door locked against Outsiders and make it stick.

I mean, the fact Maeve came to Molly instead of paying off a mercenary snatch team to grab Sandra suggests things about her threat rating to my paranoid mind.
 
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