Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

As far as I understand the problem is that said gateway doesn't lead to Nevernever. Nevernever is a buffer state between Creation and Outside. And the gateway in Vegas leads either directly to Outside or so close that it still causes problems.

In Exalted you could just walk Outside if you walk long enough. In Vegas you don't even need to go that far it truly has everything.
Not all of the nevernever is. The point of the outer gates is that they force you to go through a single point to come in unless someone with permission on the inside, like a mortal mage, teleports you inside.

Which really makes this whole thing really alarming on a base level. How many back doors are there just waiting to get kicked open?
 
As far as I understand the problem is that said gateway doesn't lead to Nevernever. Nevernever is a buffer state between Creation and Outside. And the gateway in Vegas leads either directly to Outside or so close that it still causes problems.

In Exalted you could just walk Outside if you walk long enough. In Vegas you don't even need to go that far it truly has everything.
Yes, I understand. I hope that we could transform the passageway or the destination, so it's not Outside anymore. Yes, I am essentially remaking Wyld-Shaping Technique here.
 
I don't think we really need to specify it. Winter wouldn't try to get on our bad side because of the 2 favors they owe us and they may or may not be aware of kingdom situation. Still though it's a matter of principle.
[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)
 
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[-] Agree to Maeve's terms (Costs 1 AP next month)

[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)

Maeve: Someone you want dead is hanging out with a vampire with so much power they call him Dragon, backed up by a sin-eater keeping Outside outside via the power of Las Vegas.

Molly: Aight, I'll swing by next month and deal with it (with one (1) AP; literally spent more time remodeling her underground base than this lol)
 
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[X] Agree to Maeve's terms (Costs 1 AP next month)

Maeve: Someone you want dead is hanging out with a vampire with so much power they call him Dragon, backed up by a sin-eater keeping Outside outside via the power of Las Vegas.

Molly: Aight, I'll swing by next month and deal with it (with one (1) AP; literally spent more time remodeling her underground base than this lol)

To be fair the reason it is one AP is because Molly is a bit too obvious to play the game of slowly getting the lay of the land and stalking the target.
 
To be fair the reason it is one AP is because Molly is a bit too obvious to play the game of slowly getting the lay of the land and stalking the target.

"Where does an 800-pound gorilla sit? Anywhere it wants"

"What does an Exalted Molly do? Anything she wants"

Disclaimer: Molly does not accept any consequences for her actions unless she wants to; you have a problem, take that up with the 800-pound gorilla :V
 
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"Where does an 800-pound gorilla sit? Anywhere it wants"

"What does an Exalted Molly do? Anything she wants"

Disclaimer: Molly does not accept any consequences for her actions unless she wants to; you have a problem, take that up with the 800-pound gorilla
Behavior like that gets alliances made to contest that.

Molly is a heavy weight, but even she can't fight everyone.

Which is why we don't.

We diplomacy'd Mab instead of pissing her off. Despite one of hers nailing Molly to a tree.

We talked an Assassin away from trying to kill Harry and into killing his employer instead.

We do our best to be an ally with the White Council.

We've parked the White Court of Vampires to the side.

Doesn't mean Molly can't do that to some people.
But she shouldn't do it to all people.
 
Behavior like that gets alliances made to contest that.

Molly is a heavy weight, but even she can't fight everyone.

Which is why we don't.

We diplomacy'd Mab instead of pissing her off. Despite one of hers nailing Molly to a tree.

We talked an Assassin away from trying to kill Harry and into killing his employer instead.

We do our best to be an ally with the White Council.

We've parked the White Court of Vampires to the side.

Doesn't mean Molly can't do that to some people.
But she shouldn't do it to all people.

I get it, it was a joke. Molly's been good at taking responsibility for everything so far.

Just darkly amusing that if she chose not to, it's gonna be just as big a problem for the people trying to gank her as for her having people trying to gank her.
 
I get it, it was a joke. Molly's been good at taking responsibility for everything so far.

Just darkly amusing that if she chose not to, it's gonna be just as big a problem for the people trying to gank her as for her having people trying to gank her.
Emojis exist to indicate jokes.:whistle::V:lol::p

Because there is no tone in written text unlike audio.
 
Behavior like that gets alliances made to contest that.

Molly is a heavy weight, but even she can't fight everyone.

Which is why we don't.

We diplomacy'd Mab instead of pissing her off. Despite one of hers nailing Molly to a tree.

We talked an Assassin away from trying to kill Harry and into killing his employer instead.

We do our best to be an ally with the White Council.

We've parked the White Court of Vampires to the side.

Doesn't mean Molly can't do that to some people.
But she shouldn't do it to all people.
I would actually go so far as to say that most of Molly's heavy weight actually comes from her overpowered social skills rather than her combat power. Yes the combat power helps, but all of Molly's victories (besides killing the greater Akuma) were based on her social powers.

Really want to get False Springs Beckons to add some more leverage to that.
 
I would actually go so far as to say that most of Molly's heavy weight actually comes from her overpowered social skills rather than her combat power. Yes the combat power helps, but all of Molly's victories (besides killing the greater Akuma) were based on her social powers.

Really want to get False Springs Beckons to add some more leverage to that.
The pure power is necessary to enable the social part in some areas.

Do you think the Naagloshii would have hesitated to kill us for long enough to get any argument out if he had thought physical combat was a sure victory?
Do you think we would have survived the hit on Arianna if we had shown weakness?

Would Mab be treating with us as positively as she is, if we didn't have unique powers to find and exorcise Nemesis from one of the few people she actually cares about?

Or the Cleveland expedition, do you think we could have banished Iku-Tursko back to his prison or killed the Formor with good speeches?
 
Behavior like that gets alliances made to contest that.

Molly is a heavy weight, but even she can't fight everyone.

Which is why we don't.

We diplomacy'd Mab instead of pissing her off. Despite one of hers nailing Molly to a tree.

We talked an Assassin away from trying to kill Harry and into killing his employer instead.

We do our best to be an ally with the White Council.

We've parked the White Court of Vampires to the side.

Doesn't mean Molly can't do that to some people.
But she shouldn't do it to all people.
This is the sort of thing that it's helpful to remember is way more frustrating for our opponents than it is for us.

Just by not wasting effort screwing up the basics we make things way more complicated for everyone else around us than the 800 lbs gorilla approach.
I would actually go so far as to say that most of Molly's heavy weight actually comes from her overpowered social skills rather than her combat power. Yes the combat power helps, but all of Molly's victories (besides killing the greater Akuma) were based on her social powers.

Really want to get False Springs Beckons to add some more leverage to that.
I'd say it's more of an information thing. Most of the time we do well, socially and martially, it's because we worked out something to use as leverage in advance. A lot of that is the crown, but play style factors in too.

I mean, our social dice make us competitive with the top end people but that's as far as it goes. If it was the core of our power we'd basically be an off brand whampire elder that's largely worse than the market leader.
 
In fairness we can probably be pretty surgical about this with the right planning. Vegas gets most of its water from Lake Mead, which is fed by the Colorado River.

If we use some of Sandra's possessions to work out her habits we could pop out nearly on top of her. Make a grab for her and skip town or keep the pressure up to make sure she flees for anywhere but here instead of a safe house elsewhere in the city.

Best case she's not a nemesis host; we subdue her, take her to hell, and RVD home. Second best is tagging her car with a devil and forcing her out of town that way on pain of fatal car accident if she tries to resist.

Worst case would be killing her and smuggling her soul out of town in an essence vessel. We'd have to make sure her body was destroyed and reincarnate her only if she's not a nemesis host, but outside of that it'd do the job.

Really just having one on hand may be a good goad too if she makes her occult check on seeing it. Nothing says 'now is the time to panic' like a living hell planet coming at you with soul stealing intent. Molly wouldn't, but to anyone even vaguely in the know supernaturally speaking that reads like someone has a fate worse than death lined up for you.
 
Ah if only we had the wicked city 1 dot broadcast Prada
"Sandra [last name] has 12 hours to vacate the city of Las Vegas"
 
A History of Sin​
18th of December 2006 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Wow. Bad fumble on Maeve's part. And she's only rolling 8 dice on Manipulation + Etiquette.
For a centuries old figure in Winter, thats rather embarassing. And suggests she hasnt really been doing all that much social manipulation in her centuries of office. Not much subtlety in that one.

==
Ah, Vegas. I remember this story from the DFRPG. So Vegas is a Hellgate.
Im willing to bet horses to horseshoes that Mab knows damn well where Sandra is; probably figured it out before Maeve did.
The fact she's taken no action is interesting.

Also worth noting that Vegas is in Carlos' putative bailiwick, even though he doesnt spend time there

==
Maeve's slip up admits that whoever is running Chicago, the dude's power is enough to keep Winter out.
That's....alarming.
Admittedly, Vegas is more Summer Court and Wyldfae territory IIRC, but still.

==
Chicago to Las Vegas is ~1700 miles.
So roughly 25 hours at 68 mph. We cant buy a plane ticket of course; thats just putting other people at risk, unless we buy Prince of Ruin. So we probably drive if we're bringing people.

However, the fastest route to Las Vegas is jumping into the Chicago River down to the Mississipi, upriver along the Missouri River to about where Omaha is, then branch off into the Platte River to the North Platte River, which connects to the Lower Colorado. And the Lower Colorado River goes by Las Vegas.


==
Im rather reluctant to take Maeve's deal, sight unseen.
I cant see any reason why an Outsider minion would flee to a Hellgate that can conceivably be interpreted as benign; if we dont go handle it soon, it will just mature into a problem later.

However.
Issues on the ground might mean we cannot, or might not want to, deliver the miscreant into Maeve's hands.
We might need to renegotiate.


Malcoffee should have been much more traumatic. And it went more than well enough. Carpenter family is deep in the supernatural world already, much more so than in canon, and it's not just us - Daniel is getting deep into supernatural world too, with Leech next on the schedule. It would be good for Charity to overcome her trauma, and I think she's well on her way there.
Malcoffee = Enhanced coffee/energy drink. Easy to convince yourself its not very different from the coffee that other people take each day. Much harder with a transforming hammer.
Besides, its not our prerogative to tell people what they find more

The Carpenter family has been deep in the supernatural for more than twenty years; Michael was carrying Amoracchius before he met Charity, and Charity's experience with the supernatural dates to high school. A good friend of her husband is a wizard.
Charity still nurses a deep distrust of magic. I fail to see why you think this is going to change things.

While its good for Charity to overcome her trauma, we dont make that judgement for her.
Trying to do so, trying to force it, is a dick move.
Thats like gifting a puppy to someone afraid of dogs.
Don't have the RPG book, but this is an opportunity. Depending on what the thing Outside is, this escalates to us either killing it, or dealing with it, and resolving the whole situation. This should be a good adventure.
Plus, we get a Vegas adventure.
Citation:
"Ha, good one, a bunch of doddering old fools dealing with one whose master staves off Winter itself," she laughs, catches herself. For a moment you can practically see the wheels spinning behind her bright blue gaze, damage control kicking into high gear. "I say this to you due to sharing common foes and out of respect for thine deeds."
This is not Iku Turso. I dont expect it to be quite that simple.
 
Ah if only we had the wicked city 1 dot broadcast Prada
"Sandra [last name] has 12 hours to vacate the city of Las Vegas"
Broadcasting that everywhere would get too much attention, and that level of warning would probably make her go to ground in some prepared safe house. We want her panicked and running for the hills, not executing any sort of plan.
 
Wow. Bad fumble on Maeve's part. And she's only rolling 8 dice on Manipulation + Etiquette.
For a centuries old figure in Winter, thats rather embarassing. And suggests she hasnt really been doing all that much social manipulation in her centuries of office. Not much subtlety in that one.
She seems to have neglected her duties, including self-improvement (or at least keeping her skills sharp) for decades at least, possibly longer.

People get rusty, even immortal people.
 
VOTE
[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)


This is a better compromise IMO.
Better not to make promises when we dont know the conditions on the ground; there are almost certainly complications to be aware of if the dude in charge didnt even reply to a query.

If nothing else, if she's got that Outsider taint, I'd prefer to keep her away from a recent victim.

That said, Sandra was involved in the Splattercon murders. If the White Council got their hands on her, blade to the neck. And thats the best case here; Maeve/Winter wont be anywhere as kind or as quick if she falls into their hands.
Not a great place for a supernatural to be in.
 
Maeve's slip up admits that whoever is running Chicago, the dude's power is enough to keep Winter out.
That's....alarming.
Admittedly, Vegas is more Summer Court and Wyldfae territory IIRC, but still.
Whoever? Sin Eater is Dragon's master is what I got. Dragon serves as cup bearer to it, managing sin generation, and probably running some rituals to distill said sins into something tangible:
Back in 1905 the spirit started getting antsy, get weary maybe. He offered old bat ears a bargain: power, wealth, blood and sex, the works if he would help build a city of sin to feed it into the spirits black heart. Yeah, that's right, middle aged execs blowing their kids' college funds on coke and call girls have been keeping one of the backdoors of reality safe. 'Just one more round of blackjack,' they cried and the world got to keep spinning one more day." Maeve giggles."The Dragon's a cup-bearer, no more and no less, but it gives him great power in his domain, enough that it would be difficult to shift him and even if we did..."
This is not Iku Turso. I dont expect it to be quite that simple.
I'm not sure Winter wants to contest their claim very much, as it would only make more work for Winter. And we are quite a bit more powerful than we were back then. We do need to have a viable alternative to the current set up beforehand.
 
[X] Agree to deal with the situation personally, but make the bargain conditional upon voluntary successful completion. Maeve will owe you nothing, if you don't deliver, but you also have no obligation to deliver, and owe her nothing if you don't. (Costs 1 AP next month)

Maeve's slip up admits that whoever is running Chicago, the dude's power is enough to keep Winter out.
That's....alarming.
Admittedly, Vegas is more Summer Court and Wyldfae territory IIRC, but still.
It sounds more like the sort of hostage game Winter has gotten accused of previously in the thread. Winter could go in and take what they want, but it'd be expensive and probably end with a new front they don't want to manage themselves.

What's curious about this is that the vamp is willing to play chicken. I wonder if he knows that Sandra is connected to Nemesis in the first place, because Winter's reason not to pay the price goes away if they think the gate is going to open anyway and they can't be sure that the reason she's being hunted is because of something she did instead of something she's doing.

If he was aware I'd have thought the guy would straight have her killed to avoid the headache.
 
COMMENTARY
Wow. Bad fumble on Maeve's part. And she's only rolling 8 dice on Manipulation + Etiquette.
For a centuries old figure in Winter, thats rather embarassing. And suggests she hasnt really been doing all that much social manipulation in her centuries of office. Not much subtlety in that one.

Molly gets a sense that Maeve is just bad at her job, almost remarkably so. There's a part of her, and it might be the same part that found Broken Seeker a little charming that wants to help the Winter Lady break out of her shell. :grin:
 
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