To magical senses we come across like a devil in charge of a hell, and here we are associating with ghouls and vampires. A solid reminder that we are a daughter of a Knight of the Cross, that we are opposed to the truly evil like the Denarians, and that we are a friend who will help those who are injured helping us seems like a good idea. Keep that side of who we are and what's going on here in the front of their minds.
Even with Splintered Gale Shintai clones, we're going to be stretched.
I dont really find it credible that we are going to add managing a spirit bureaucracy on top of that. I mean, its worth noting that even Mab has to devote significant effort to managing the internal hierarchy and jockeying of the Winter Court.
Honestly, the truth, maybe not all the details, doesn't actually look bad for Harry or us. The Denarians are enemies of our family, and Harry is a friend of our family. Nicodemus tried to assault our family, Harry stepped in to help, and then we used our powers to free him from the burden that he had been afflicted with.
1) Its not our secret to tell.
A reputation for blabbing the details of other people's business does us no good; even the people who are curious will take note not to share their secrets with you.
2) Dresden literally said in Dead Beat that Denarian possession would probably have gotten him executed if the White Council had found out when he was possessed. So no. We dont even want to breathe anything of the sort without his acquiesence.
And probably those of Lash.
The rules that govern spirits in the Dresdenverse are not of our creation, and we dont get to summarily override them.
And a lot of our enemies, from the Denarians to the Yama Kings to Nemesis, have demonstrated an interest, if not a positive talent for subverting that sort of thing.
We'd spend a significant chunk of time just trying to keep them secure.
I dont think that the juice is worth the squeeze, given the rules as we currently know them.
VOTE [X] It was breaking a curse. That is sort of true if you squint, with mental apologies of the shadow in the mirror
[X] Burn Etiquette, Empathy or Subterfuge Excellency as necessary.
HIPAA rules apply. Its not like we go around advertising what we did for Mab.
Even if it was our secret to tell, we sure as hell wouldnt be expected to talk about it in public; our Jade Dogs are loyal, but they arent secure enough to walk around with that kind of thing in their head, or not blurt it by accident.
And its certainly not our secret to tell.
The key to misdirection is not getting caught in a lie, and avoiding details.
Plus, remaining vague gives Dresden time to decide how he would describe it when they ask him about it in private.
I don't expect him to do it well, but it is funny to see how he will mess up. Also if Harry just says buzz off it doesn't look as subspinous as if we did. Because Harry is just like that.
I don't expect him to do it well, but it is funny to see how he will mess up. Also if Harry just says buzz off it doesn't look as subspinous as if we did. Because Harry is just like that.
The scarring was the worst on the insides of my fingers and over my palm. It looked more like melted wax than human flesh, all white with flares of blue where some of the veins still survived-all except for the exact center of my palm. There, three lines of pink, healthy flesh formed a sigil vaguely suggestive of an hourglass.
"I found this there when I got burned," I said. "It's an ancient script. It's the symbol for the name of Lasciel."
Georgia drew in a slow breath and said, "Oh."
Billy looked back and forth between us. "Oh? What, oh?"
Georgia gave me a be-patient look and turned to Billy. "It's a demon mark. Like a brand, yes?" She looked at me for confirmation.
I nodded.
"He's worried that this demon, Lasciel, might be exerting some kind of control on him in ways that he cannot detect."
"Right," I said. "Everything I know tells me that I should be cut off from Lasciel. That I should be safe. But the power is still there somehow. And if the demon is influencing my thoughts, pulling my strings, I might not even be able to feel it happening."
Georgia frowned. "Do you believe that to be a probability?"
"It's too dangerous to assume anything else," I said. I held up a hand. "That's not hubris. It's just a fact. I have power. If I use it unwisely or recklessly, people could get hurt. They could die. And if Lasciel is somehow influencing me…"
"Who knows what could happen," Billy finished, his tone sober.
"Yeah."
"Damn," Billy said. We all took a sip of beer. "I'm worried," I said. "I haven't been able to find any answers. I've gone through spell after spell. Rites, ceremonies, I've tried everything. It won't go away."
"Jesus," Billy breathed. "An influence like this is detectable, and against the Laws of Magic. If the Wardens found out and pushed a trial on me, it might be enough to get me executed. And if I get near the Knight of the Cross I told you about, he'll be able to feel it on me. I don't know how he'd react. What he would think."
I swallowed.
VOTE [X] It was breaking a curse. That is sort of true if you squint, with mental apologies of the shadow in the mirror
[X] Burn Etiquette, Empathy or Subterfuge Excellency as necessary.
Point of correction: They arent few.
Essence*2 companions at E3 means 6 of them, rising to 10 at E5.
She has space for more than a few if she so chooses.
Anyway, Molly doesnt needs any of them when, like I said, Inner Devil Unleashed allows her to invest a fomor for the cost of 3 Essence.
They are supposed to be artificial spirits. I quote:
That means they share all the advantages and disadvantages of spirits in this setting unless otherwise stated.
That includes shit like being unable to enter thresholds or warded areas without being invited by the residents or someone with the authority to make that decision. You can also expect them to share most of the vulnerabilities of spirits like being unable to cross a circle, and being banished by people with the skill to do so.
Emanations have been consistently described as gods. A 5 dot emanation is a major god. Not on Odin's level, but certainly above a house god. It would be weakened by a threshold, but it's not a minor spirit to be stopped by one.
If the kid goes on a sleep over, or enters a warded area? The spirit cant follow.
If the attackers are wearing something like a Dead Man's Talisman(Grave Peril, chapter 4)? Your spirit has issues.
If something like ghost dust(Grave Peril, Ghost Story) or rock salt(Dead Beat chapter 13) is in play? Your spirit has got issues.
If there's running water(Grave Peril) or rain? Your spirit probably has issues at a minimum.
And unlike natural spirits and even some fomor, they dont come standard with spirit powers of any sort either.
Dont get me wrong, they are very useful in the right situations.
But the design intent appears to be autonomous servitor thats primarily limited by area, not bodyguard god.
I fundamentally disagree with all of this. If the kid takes his guardian's keystone inside wards, the wards shouldn't be able to stop Emanation from manifesting. The Emanation is bound to its keystone. If the keystone is inside wards, the Emanation is inside wards. That's how I am reading this. Otherwise, you are also completely disabling all fetishes (which are also items with bound spirits), and break the system.
Why not? Serious question. Strength 7, Dexterity 7, Brawl 5, all actions taken in defense of its charge (I repeat, all actions) receive -3 DC adjustment, soak 7 (4 stamina + 3 from Granite Skin), soaks agg (at base DC 8, and at DC 5 when protecting their charge), Willpower 10, all mind-affecting magic used against it has +3 DC adjustment. Can fly. I am fairly sure it would win, actually.
Remember that 10-yard limit?
A single gunman with Bane Arrow-equivalent bullets, or just a shotgun with rock salt, is going to stand at 11 yards and fill it with death, and the Emanation cant do much about it.
It's a 100 yard limit, if the keystone is tied to its master. 10 yards if the master is away from the keystone. That's pretty clear. And the Emanation would be able to grab their master and fly away. Or throw pebbles into the opponent (either brawl or athletics, which it has at 5 dots both).
Strongly disagree.
There are multiple roles in which a human is of less utility than a dog; where high sapience is of less priority than stealth, or superior senses. Guarding a home, for example.
The loyalty of Arcana is transferable. An Exalt can gift an Arcana to someone else, declaring them to be its new master. This individual then inherits the loyalty described in the preceding quality, although with each transference, it becomes easier and easier for an Arcana's loyalty to decay.
(No, you cant use the child as a keystone either; for one thing, it needs an item, not a person. For another, you need a Prodigy or a Fetish that is 2 dot or higher for a 5 dot emanation)
Doesn't allow Molly to design Fomor, and we have nothing to increase their intelligence. Like, there's no charm for that.
Emanations have been consistently described as gods. A 5 dot emanation is a major god. Not on Odin's level, but certainly above a house god. It would be weakened by a threshold, but it's not a minor spirit to be stopped by one.
I fundamentally disagree with all of this. If the kid takes his guardian's keystone inside wards, the wards shouldn't be able to stop Emanation from manifesting. The Emanation is bound to its keystone. If the keystone is inside wards, the Emanation is inside wards. That's how I am reading this. Otherwise, you are also completely disabling all fetishes (which are also items with bound spirits), and break the system.
I know you like to nerf exalted side into the floor, but this is way over the top.
Why not? Serious question. Strength 7, Dexterity 7, Brawl 5, all actions taken in defense of its charge (I repeat, all actions) receive -3 DC adjustment, soak 7 (4 stamina + 3 from Granite Skin), soaks agg (at base DC 8, and at DC 5 when protecting their charge), Willpower 10, all mind-affecting magic used against it has +3 DC adjustment. Can fly. I am fairly sure it would win, actually.
It's a 100 yard limit, if the keystone is tied to its master. 10 yards if the master is away from the keystone. That's pretty clear. And the Emanation would be able to grab their master and fly away. Or throw pebbles into the opponent (either brawl or athletics, which it has at 5 dots both).
A spirit which normally stays unmanifested (and has stealth 3) is more stealthy than a magical demon dog.
That's just wrong:
The child is going to be the master of the arcana, naturally. We are the chlld's godmother, we'll gift them the arcana on their birthday.
This is arguable, but even if we can't, a 2 dot tattoo prodigy is entirely doable. One designed to hide the child from supernatural eyes, for example.
I'll note by Dresden files rules there are major entities that are basically stopped completely by thresholds. Mind you they usually have ways around that like hiring mortals but it is a thing to take into account.
[X] It was breaking a curse. That is sort of true if you squint, with mental apologies of the shadow in the mirror
[X] Burn Etiquette, Empathy or Subterfuge Excellency as necessary.
On the spirit court problem we have a big advantage over the Dragon blooded of getting a lot of respect by default. I remember a quote that the Gods gave the lowest beger more respect than the Dragon blooded because there was a chance however slightly that they might someday become a celestial Exalted well there was no such chance for Dragon blooded.
When you also include the fact that Molly will have created a lot of these gods personality that is a large amount of default respect.
Are the spirit even going to become a problem in quest time? Like Alot of the problems that existed between gods in Exalted was due to stuff like the God of Cities (all of them not one specific) being in a feud with the God of sacking cities and stuff like that. So far we where planning to create more of the Bane type for the Order, City God of Chicago and probably for the cities in the Court. But is Molly really planning on going to go around making Gods of X? Heck there is no Yu-Shan so there isnt even a place for gods to interact outside their domains.
Like Molly would need to go around making nothing but gods to make this an actual problem. Unless more exalted shows up or they start to form naturally somehow and at that point we are better of making em so they got atleast some connection to Molly rather then someone else.
@fictionfan The question is whether or not that's canon. Even in 2e it seems like everyone has something that makes them mad or is incoherent or whatever that they decanonize
The rules that govern spirits in the Dresdenverse are not of our creation, and we dont get to summarily override them.
And a lot of our enemies, from the Denarians to the Yama Kings to Nemesis, have demonstrated an interest, if not a positive talent for subverting that sort of thing
We'd spend a significant chunk of time just trying to keep them secure.
I dont think that the juice is worth the squeeze, given the rules as we currently know them.
One thing to keep in mind about spirits and gods is that there is an entire corpus of dealing with small to mid level spirits in your realm. It is something you can study as higher education. It is even a field that pure mortals can get into, if they are martial artists or magicians, though it is dominated by the Augmented since they are closer to the spirits.
If the kid goes on a sleep over, or enters a warded area? The spirit cant follow.
If the attackers are wearing something like a Dead Man's Talisman(Grave Peril, chapter 4)? Your spirit has issues.
If something like ghost dust(Grave Peril, Ghost Story) or rock salt(Dead Beat chapter 13) is in play? Your spirit has got issues.
If there's running water(Grave Peril) or rain? Your spirit probably has issues at a minimum.
Are you sure you aren't mixing up spirits and ghosts here?
I mean, spirits are not former people and shouldn't be vulnerable to things like salt and running water by default.
River-spirits are after all one of the more common kind of natural spirits through several mythologies.
1)Nothing in the text of the charm says any such thing; Holden just adds it on as an opinion in the Appendix.
Pentex explicitly made breeds of fomor.
2) Mega-Attribute is a canonical Fomor power in W20.
We explicitly see it used to increase Intelligence in the Take-Two Gorehound.
And thats assuming we need it; animal-level intelligence can be very capable.
Emanations have been consistently described as gods. A 5 dot emanation is a major god. Not on Odin's level, but certainly above a house god. It would be weakened by a threshold, but it's not a minor spirit to be stopped by one.
I read the design document, and its very clear about what Emanations are supposed to be:
Arcana Arcana are magical servants, slaves, familiars, or companions. They are magical creations capable of independent motion and action. Where Prodigies are enchanted items, Arcana are enchanted beings.
Arcana vary widely, depending on the sort of Essence used to give them a semblance of life. As a result, different sorts of Exalts may create different varieties of Arcana. Broadly, Arcana break down into the following categories:
Arcana are able to learn things. While it might not understand why polo slacks don't go with
a halter top at first, Arcana can observe their surroundings and figure things out if they're smart
enough. They can be taught. They can be trained. If allowed to interact with the world, they tend to become more sophisticated over time.
Phantasms have the simplest requirements, needing only a keystone to anchor them in the world.
This can be nearly any small object of great emotional or financial value. If the keystone is of
great emotional significance, that significance need not necessarily be to the Exalt making the
phantasm. In the case of 5-dot Phantasms, the keystone needs to be a magical item of some kind,
such as a Fetish or Prodigy, rated at 2 dots or above.
It says they can be trained, and can grow in skill and sophistication.
It says nothing about their being gods. It says nothing about growing in power either.
An emanation is just an exotic variety of Arcana, and is benchmarked to the other Arcana.
And its frankly easier to make an emanation than a golem, or most simulacra.
Nobody's claiming a 5 dot golem, or 5 dot clone, is now a god.
I fundamentally disagree with all of this. If the kid takes his guardian's keystone inside wards, the wards shouldn't be able to stop Emanation from manifesting. The Emanation is bound to its keystone. If the keystone is inside wards, the Emanation is inside wards. That's how I am reading this. Otherwise, you are also completely disabling all fetishes (which are also items with bound spirits), and break the system.
Fetishes may employ a spirit's powers, but they arent self-directed. Spirits are.
This is the Dresdenverse. There are Rules governing what is permissible to spirits.
A threshold would not be a defense if a spirit could just get any minion to walk inside and invite it in, or carry its reliquary into the place; you need the right to be there in the first place.
Even the Hunger demon inside a White Court vampire is depowered whenever it crosses a threshold without permission, and its literally nestled next to the vampire's soul.
The idea that carrying an item gets you past fundamental setting rules doesnt pass any precedent Im aware of.
The other sides of this cross are the Dresden Files and World of Darkness.
They set most of the rules of the setting that the Exalt is running around in.
Why not? Serious question. Strength 7, Dexterity 7, Brawl 5, all actions taken in defense of its charge (I repeat, all actions) receive -3 DC adjustment, soak 7 (4 stamina + 3 from Granite Skin), soaks agg (at base DC 8, and at DC 5 when protecting their charge), Willpower 10, all mind-affecting magic used against it has +3 DC adjustment. Can fly. I am fairly sure it would win, actually.
Because vampire elders have Disciplines and supernatural powers that often dont really care about your Attributes and Abilities.
And thats when they arent running their own boosts.
It's a 100 yard limit, if the keystone is tied to its master. 10 yards if the master is away from the keystone. That's pretty clear. And the Emanation would be able to grab their master and fly away. Or throw pebbles into the opponent (either brawl or athletics, which it has at 5 dots both).
Its a 100 yard limit from the keystone.
Keystone =/= master.
Thats why there's a separate provision for calling the spirit to the location of the master, not the keystone.
In a bodyguard role, you want your bodyguards to be visible, because visible bodyguards are a deterrent.
Visible bodyguards can raise the kind of ruckus that drives off attackers.
Take a look at any public figure that requires a security entourage.
Their visibility is part of the point; you really dont want a firefight around your principal if you can at all avoid it.
You expect a baby to command its own bodyguard?
To give it instructions? To call it off? To tell it where to run to if you come under attack? How?
Come the fuck on.
A Prodigy's form and function are always related. A magic blender probably tears things
apart or mixes them together in some strange way. It almost certainly only acts upon things
placed inside of it. You don't just gesticulate at people with the blender and turn them into
animals. That has nothing to do with a blender.
A magic sword defends, cuts, kills, fights. It does something martial. A magical ladder might
extend to absurd lengths. A magical cloth hides whatever it is draped over. A magical clock
strikes midnight when in the presence of a vampire. A magical lantern never consumes its fuel,
burning forever. A magical flashlight projects sunlight. A magical sword doesn't turn the person
carrying it invisible… although the blade itself might be able to become invisible, since that
would make it better able to be used to kill people. A magical ladder doesn't start yelling when a
vampire shows up. A magical cloth doesn't project sunlight. Enchantments are always something
that intuitively makes sense for the object in question. They're never random mish-mashes.
This rule is allowed to have some flex for odd pairings with mythic resonance or which just seem
cool, like a flying carpet, staff that transforms into a serpent when you throw it down, or cape
that becomes wings and lets its wearer fly.
• A Prodigy must be actively used.Prodigies do things. You attack with magic swords, reveal
stuff with magic lamps by shining their light around, or open doors with magic keys. Prodigies
don't passively give a benefit to a character. Magic rings that make you stronger and magic
tattoos that make you immune to poison are the province of Splendors. Magical clothing can
straddle this line, but generally shouldn't get any more passive than "being incredibly tough and
thus providing inconspicuous armor." Broadly speaking, Prodigies want to be situational
enchantments that you would want sometimes but not all the time, like "a cloak that makes its
wearer invisible," rather than "a cloak that gives its wearer +2 Stamina," which, shit, I'd sleep in
that if I could. Also, a cloak (a concealing garment) that makes you invisible makes sense, while
a cloak that makes you healthier and tougher… runs afoul of the "form and function" rule,
above.
Basically, don't use Prodigies as ways to pad your character sheet's Traits. Splendors do that.
You've got that wrong.
We are always afraid of enemies subverting things. Only when we are reasonably sure we can defend against known enemy vectors do we go ahead with stuff.
It profits us nothing to roll out something our enemies can easily use against us.
Are you sure you aren't mixing up spirits and ghosts here?
I mean, spirits are not former people and shouldn't be vulnerable to things like salt and running water by default.
River-spirits are after all one of the more common kind of natural spirits through several mythologies.
Murphy's father saved Rawlins by shooting an attacking spirit with a shotgun full of rocksalt.
I looked from the newsletter up to Rawlins, and frowned. "Why are you helping me?"
He lifted his eyebrows. "Helping you? You could have found that anywhere. And I never saw you."
"Understood," I said. "But why?" He leaned against the wall and folded his arms. "Because when I was a young cop, I went running down an alley when I heard a woman scream. And I saw something. Something that…" His face became remote. "Something that has given me bad dreams for about thirty years. This thing strangling a girl. I push it away from her, empty my gun into it. It picks me up and slams my head into a wall a few times. I figured Mama Rawlins's baby boy was about to go the way of the dodo."
"What happened?" I asked. "Lieutenant Murphy's father showed up with a shotgun loaded with rock salt and killed it. And when the sun comes up, it burns this thing's corpse like it had been soaked in gasoline." Rawlins shook his head. "I owed her old man. And I seen enough of the streets to know that she's been doing a lot of good. You been helping her with that."
I nodded. "Thank you," I told him.
Thats not a ghost. And as far as I know, Fae have no vulnerability to salt.
Its some sort of materialized spirit, or maybe a demon, but demons dont get to roam random alleys.
Some spirits appear to have different immunities, just like some magic users have no trouble casting magic while in water.
Remember how ghosts and even Bob stay out of the sunlight for fear of damage, and how hobs will die in bright light, but minor Fae like Toot-Toot have no issue?
On the matter of Emanations and Gods, Holden did not design this game to do what we are doing, the scale of plans for things like building manses, making gods, arming small nations with magi-tech. I could design an entirely different system for making small gods (a thing Molly did before half-taught) but that seems a waste. With that in mind yes, an Emanation made by Molly is a small god of whatever you attach the keystone to.
You've got that wrong.
We are always afraid of enemies subverting things. Only when we are reasonably sure we can defend against known enemy vectors do we go ahead with stuff.
It profits us nothing to roll out something our enemies can easily use against us.
On the matter of Emanations and Gods, Holden did not design this game to do what we are doing, the scale of plans for things like building manses, making gods, arming small nations with magi-tech. I could design an entirely different system for making small gods (a thing Molly did before half-taught) but that seems a waste. With that in mind yes, an Emanation made by Molly is a small god of whatever you attach the keystone to.
