Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I personally dont like fetish crafting alone, just for the thematics and narrative.
Beating up spirits to stuff them into items seems contrary to Molly's general narrative journey thus far; a random murderhobo murdering his way across the setting, sure, but not this PC.
The spirits for fetishes can be consenting, rather than beaten, and we have access to a whole world of friendly spirits who'd probably appreciate the novelty. Also, higher level CCoP is certainly more murder-hoboey than fetish crafting, anyway.

Edit: Heck, the version of the fetish crafting charm in Lydia's tree (which I'm certainly not suggesting we ever buy for her, just pointing out as an example) explicitly can only use consenting spirits.
 
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The spirits for fetishes can be consenting, rather than beaten, and we have access to a whole world of friendly spirits who'd probably appreciate the novelty. Also, higher level CCoP is certainly more murder-hoboey than fetish crafting, anyway.

Edit: Heck, the version of the fetish crafting charm in Lydia's tree (which I'm certainly not suggesting we ever buy for her, just pointing out as an example) explicitly can only use consenting spirits.
1) I significantly doubt, even if only for narrative reasons, that we have enough spare spirits that we can afford to just take them away from the Brass Courts longterm without adversely affecting its functions.
Especially since the Hell we voted for is one that appears to have a lot of spirits involved in its ecology and functioning.



2)As for higher end CCoP, like I said, I dont like Holden's Crafting system for both narrative and mechanical reasons.

The whole requirement to kill people and things to make stuff not only squicks me out on a personal basis, it also directly contradicts the narrative impact of the Exalted being a memory of the Age of Glory come again. The requirement to kill and salvage people's parts is in itself a thematic statement that stands in stark contrast to what the Exalted are.

You shouldnt have to knock down someone else's house and salvage the building material in order to build your own; it may be an option, but it certainly shouldnt be a requirement. And the whole fiddly ass 60-page pdf with four different types of magic artifacts that are all minutely different from each other and which have variants only some Exalts can build but not others is just ridiculous.



3)I dont think there is a fetish crafting charm in Lydia's tree.
Cite?
 
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Ever using that option willingly is crazy. Anyone willing to do it regardless of how much they trust the other person needs a psychologist, not a magic item.

Edit: to be clear, that includes engraving your own soul. Making yourself into a collectible MacGuffin is just asking for it.
Intervention time, we heard you were doing a Sauron.

That said? Her build is generally pretty bad, yeah.
We're going to be spending the next year IC trying to patch all the most obvious defects just so she doesnt get punked by a random bunch of vampire thralls.
Best way to fix that would be to buy up her base stats and WP, not just a minor Charm every Arc.
But that will never happen as long as she runs on one Quarter of Molly's XP.

Realistically she'd need more XP than we do to come anywhere close to keeping up, not much less.
 
Intervention time, we heard you were doing a Sauron.
In fairness, the Splendor does stay in your spirit/anima when dismissed or broken (and returns to it at the end of the scene if stolen), so it's not like someone could just cut your finger off for it. If using your own soul, it might be the least objectionable part of the crafting system.
 
In fairness, the Splendor does stay in your spirit/anima when dismissed or broken (and returns to it at the end of the scene if stolen), so it's not like someone could just cut your finger off for it. If using your own soul, it might be the least objectionable part of the crafting system.
Memory is a bit older, but I believe the finger-cut was a film invention, in the book Isildur took the Ring after Sauron was actually beaten by him, his dad and Gil-Galad.
 
Our build is so unbalanced holy fuck. We need more health and awareness people, especially if we do end up fighting Broken Seerer.
 
We need to set up a spot for coming out of the lake if we intend to make casual use of waterways as a means of transportation in the future. If we don't get our own spot, then where Thomas keeps his boat would be make the next best option probably. We'd want to mark the lake bed to make sure that we can easily hit it dead on every time, and probably set up something to make sure that we can come out with at least some degree of privacy.
 
Our build is so unbalanced holy fuck. We need more health and awareness people, especially if we do end up fighting Broken Seerer.
Yes we are super unbalanced. We have more dots in Lanka charms then the next two hells put together we have put a huge focus on combat at the expense of everything else. Even most of our not Lanka charms by XP spent are combat charms like shaping defense.

That's the problem with optimizing for combat. It's a treadmill. The enemy will never be an easy fight.
We need to set up a spot for coming out of the lake if we intend to make casual use of waterways as a means of transportation in the future. If we don't get our own spot, then where Thomas keeps his boat would be make the next best option probably. We'd want to mark the lake bed to make sure that we can easily hit it dead on every time, and probably set up something to make sure that we can come out with at least some degree of privacy.
We could set up some sort of pipe from the lake to the Last Station.
 
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Yes we are super unbalanced. We have more dots in Lanka charms then the next two hells put together we have put a huge focus on combat at the expense of everything else. Even most of our not Lanka charms by XP spent are combat charms like shaping defense.

That's the problem with optimizing for combat. It's a treadmill. The enemy will never be an easy fight.
Its probably going to stay that way too because whenever people try to correct that there's always a fight over it e_e.

Now that we have attack power it would be nice to close up some vulnerabilities instead of always picking the shiniest thing for sale.
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Oct 3, 2023 at 3:10 AM, finished with 149 posts and 29 votes.
 
She uses variant Dragon-Blooded charms, right? So wouldn't she potentially get some death-themed version of Spirit-Joining Invitation?
She doesnt have variants of all DB charms.
She doesnt have that one.

Best way to fix that would be to buy up her base stats and WP, not just a minor Charm every Arc.
But that will never happen as long as she runs on one Quarter of Molly's XP.
Realistically she'd need more XP than we do to come anywhere close to keeping up, not much less.
Because we need, at a minimum:
===
Warding of Divine Ancestry: 15xp
Willpower to 8: 18xp

Stamina to 3: 8xp
Brawl to 4: 6xp
Dexterity to 4: 12xp
Occult to 3: 6xp
Familiar to 5: 16xp
===
My actual proposal was to save 3xp this turn, then over December and January make a concerted push to get XP off Molly to fill out the holes in her charmset.
We will need to take all of Molly's XP for at least a turn, or half of it for two turns or so.

Thats why you should have voted instead of sitting on the sidelines


In fairness, the Splendor does stay in your spirit/anima when dismissed or broken (and returns to it at the end of the scene if stolen), so it's not like someone could just cut your finger off for it. If using your own soul, it might be the least objectionable part of the crafting system.
The person who makes the artifact is by default the owner of it.
So no, you dont have to be fair here; like @BronzeTongue and @Artemis1992 have both said, its just a horrible idea.
Even Sauron forged his own soul/power; he didnt hand it over to other people.

Our build is so unbalanced holy fuck. We need more health and awareness people, especially if we do end up fighting Broken Seerer.
We need Awareness AND Antipoison; we're still building out our basic combat suite.
Awareness 3 is 9xp.
Fathomless Poison Haven is 2 dots/8xp.

Maxing out Craft right now is an egregious misallocation of resources.
We need the XP elsewhere a lot more.
 
Wasn't she already possesed? You act like such tactics haven't been used on her before.
She was. She knows much better now - she essentially let her possessor in when she was. I am not saying that such dangers don't exist. I am saying that going straight for a 5 dot charm as the defense mechanism is not very rational and an overreaction. a 1 dot splendor can make her immune to possession, another can make her immune to mind-altering effect. All are free perfect effects. If that's needed. Mortal enchanted items are also a possiblity.
Please explain your logic to me.
There are two things I was talking about. One is the tendency of the voters to overreact to danger. That Molly is more durable won't stop voters from minimizing chances of danger and going into shintai. The other is that shintai is more than defense. It's an offensive power, and we are mostly suffering damage in fights where we need the offensive boosts it provides.
WHWH does not routinely apply to shintai activation rolls; there is no way that we can count on being able to duplicate sub-zero temperatures whenever we need shintai.
Ditto difficulty adjusters.

Or do you forget the fight with The Will ? Or all the shenanigans around environmental debuffs?
We are unlikely to be the only person around here who can do passive AoE effects.
While I might agree with WHWH not always applying, a very simple 1 dot item that coats us in liquid on demand is on my list of things to build, and should be fairly trivial. And that's before CCC abuse, which I still maintain should be used.
I must have missed any such discussion.
Citation needed please.
I had it with you. Multiple times. You state again and again that there should be a limit on how good something can become with more and more successes, and that going beyond reasonable amount of legendarity degrees of success is useless. And again and again I rebut you, as there's no evidence to this, and evidence for the opposite, at least where it comes to craft, such as when we made Bane.
Crafting 3 to Crafting 4 adds 1 dice of Craft.
2 with excellency, and you were talking about excellency. There are very few cases where we are using craft with excellency.

The stats and expectations for ExWoD zombies are given in the book.
This is beyond their capabilities.

And no we cant afford to be making simulacra as drivers; thats just a terrible way to spend resources.
And there's no evidence she wants one.
She does know Black Rider exists after all.
I'll concede basic zombie stats. For a driver (if needed for a purpose of being stopped by police), a machine spirit and a mannequin would suffice. I only talked about a driver because there's always a chance of being stopped by police on the road.
Thats not true.

We outright know that the Archive has hard-coded mental restrictions that act as protections; she runs the Oblivion War and is aware of anything ever written by humans and human society, no matter how mind-scarring. Mental protections are an obligatory part of the package.
Mental restrictions =/= shaping defense. A 1 dot splendor gives you free perfect mental defenses. Another 1 dot splendor gives you free perfect defense against possession. That's not shaping defense, don't mix the two together. It's like comparing a pocket knife and a CNC lathe. Both are tools, but one is way more specialized than the other.
In the quest so far, Lydia has been both possessed by an evil bodyjumping wizard and gotten into two fights with entities who use Shaping effects offensively. Among the enemies of her father's House are evil wizards and necromancers who can use shaping effects by magic ritual. And she's only been at this for the last six months.

That need very much exists and has been repeatedly demonstrated.
And her father, who knows the dangers far better than us, made no suggestions that she beelines towards such defenses.
They are an established nationstate with allies and resources. Of course they have the actions to spend if they think its urgent enough. You dont run Latin America by collecting bottlecaps.

They have already demonstrated that they have the free resources in the middle of a major war to do shit like dispatch a noble and an entourage of strike operatives to spike attempts by Fomor-run cultists to meddle with Iku-Turso all the way north in Cleveland, thousands of miles from their base of power.
They are a supernatural power at war with another global power and are looking at another front being opened by the supernatural world's global superpower (Winter, that's your own assertion of its status). They have just recently lost two very high tier officers. They don't have time or resources to devote to an attack on us in the next several months at all. The initiative is squarely on our side here.
 
She doesnt have variants of all DB charms.
She doesnt have that one.
Is there a list somewhere of what she does have? Because it's not on the character sheet and not obviously anywhere in the Informational threadmarks. The last time I asked, people pointed me at the DB charms, so I've been assuming that's our set of options.

That said, it was more a point about the ExWoD rules being explicit that spirits can volunteer for fetishes (since it's the only way Terrestrial charms can make them) than an example specifically relevant to Lydia. It would be a terrible waste of xp for her to actually get that charm, even if it were available.
The person who makes the artifact is by default the owner of it.
Oh yeah, I was only talking about us crafting with our own soul there. Lydia would be insane to trust us with hers.
 
We will need to take all of Molly's XP for at least a turn, or half of it for two turns or so.
Yeah......no.

I rather let Lydia fall to the wayside than do that. In the end, she is just a Terrestrial in power. If she was Celestial or even a Solar in power then sure.

But as it I'd, it is simply more efficient to invest in Molly than Lydia.
 
My actual proposal was to save 3xp this turn, then over December and January make a concerted push to get XP off Molly to fill out the holes in her charmset.
We will need to take all of Molly's XP for at least a turn, or half of it for two turns or so.

Thats why you should have voted instead of sitting on the sidelines
I didn't see much difference in plans this time.
If you make a plan that includes boosting Lydia next time, I'll probably vote for it.
 
@DragonParadox a question - theoretically speaking, if Lydia was to gain an animal form, would she be able to empower herself with Companions of the Hunter?

And a second question - does Thoughts of Oak Defense make Lydia immune to mind-affecting part of our training charm? The one about compulsions laid onto those who receive benefits from it? Or does it make her immune to the charm as a whole?
 
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@DragonParadox a question - theoretically speaking, if Lydia was to gain an animal form, would she be able to empower herself with Companions of the Hunter?

And a second question - does Thoughts of Oak Defense make Lydia immune to mind-affecting part of our training charm? The one about compulsions laid onto those who receive benefits from it? Or does it make her immune to the charm as a whole?
  1. No, since that is not a companion that is Lydia herself
  2. I think just being anything other than mortal makes her immune from the charm unfortunately
 
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