We go Shintai when we are discarding subtlety. Dresden burning down buildings is more subtle than us activating Shintai. I mean permanent doesn't mean that we can have the end result be a hole in the ground rather then up market real estate values. Permanent just gives more options.
You misunderstand. My problem is leaving obvoius evidence fucking everywhere that the mundane humans will pick up on. Only the supernatural world notices us going Shintai. Dresden burning down building attracts more attention from the modern man than that.
If someone is going over the sites of our battles with a geologist and a fine tooth comb it hardly matters if we pick permanent or not any large scale battle we do is going to leave traces.
You misunderstand. My problem is leaving obvoius evidence fucking everywhere that the mundane humans will pick up on. Only the supernatural world notices us going Shintai. Dresden burning down building attracts more attention from the modern man than that.
If someone is going over the sites of our battles with a geologist and a fine tooth comb it hardly matters if we pick permanent or not any large scale battle we do is going to leave traces.
Yeah but it doesn't matter if we transport a thousand tons of dirt in the middle of a museum and then a geologist looks over it. Dirts not gonna break the masquerade no matter how hard we try.
Arianna rolled 7 successes, and spent 1wp for an autosux, for a total of 8L damage.
Molly rolled 7 successes on her soak roll, for 7 soak.
That means Molly suffered 1L of damage. And she should be at 10/11.
Not that it matters during shintai, since she is using a different health track. But worth pointing out.
Lash of Rage does unsoakable aggravated damage levels. I do not think it would be remotely balanced to not allow counter-magic for that or else that one gift is more dangerous than the rotes of arch-mages. It was always supposed to be like that as far back as Broken Seeker has a sheet and I will say I was not expecting him to fight anyone but Molly and her friends at the time. Also yes he does not want to eat a death curse, note that Rhys the Ragged was human enough for it. Broken Seeker himself would not be able to do it, but anything with a mortal's fear of death and enough power can.
Also yes he is still planning to devour Arianna, under those circumstances he does not have to worry about the Death Curse because he consumed the person who cast it and thus can just snap them out of existence 'She's not dead, she's me'
Anyway it is getting really late for me, will pick this up in the morning.
Coming back to this, because I went back to check, and yes: Apparently only mortal wizards can cast death curses.
And only those of sufficient power at that, with the time and focus to get one off.
Bianca St Claire was a Red Court sorceress in Grave Peril, and didnt have one to throw when she died
Summer Lady Aurora was mortal born, and threw no death curse when she was dying, whether from incapability or unwillingness; indeed, the threat of Dresden's death curse in Summer Knight was a plot point that kept him alive at one point.
Jenny Greenteeth was a Sidhe sorceress and died without throwing one.
Fomor cantrev lord Mag was a sorcerer, and had no death curse against Marcone in Even Hand
His brother, also a Fomor cantrev lord, had no death curse to throw against Etri in Bombshells. None of the fomor sorcerers at Battle Grounds got any off.
Arianna Ortega did not have a death curse to throw in Changes. Neither did any of the other Red Court sorcerers at Chitchen Itza
Lasciel!Hannah Ascher died too quickly to cast a death curse.
So did Thorned Namshiel's bearer in Small Favor, not that throwing a death curse at a Knight would have worked.
But ex-Denarian Quintus Cassius had the time, and did throw a death curse at Dresden.
You need to be human or of human ancestry to have access to a death curse, and then have the time and focus to throw one.
A scion who is a wizard should be sufficiently human to do so, but a human born who has abandoned their humanity for another species would not.
Winter Knight Dresden would have one. Winter Lady Molly would not.
A fomor probably would.
A Denarian probably would, as long as its the human thats in control. A bodyjumping necromancer like Corpsetaker probably would; the template Creature of Darkness is an addition, not a replacement.
I dont know if ghouls can even become wizards; none of the ghoul clans in canon appear to have ever produced one.
Exceptions?
Black Court vampires might be able to level death curses. Might.
McCoy brings it up as a theory with regards to Mavra in Blood Rites when Dresden goes after her group in the homeless shelter.
The fact that they broke the Black Court as a power without record of multiple death curses being thrown suggests its just a theory . So I would personally doubt that.
The setting would look very different if the fall of the Black Court had Blampire elders setting off death curses as they died.
And Butcher has a Word of Jim that specifically mentions a death curse on Siriothrax's hoard as a reason why its still there.
So presumably Dragons might have an equivalent.
Molly's base speed in shintai is (Dex 8 x3 + 20) = 44 yards/turn
Windborn Stride x3 = 132 yards/turn. Swift Stride x2 = 264 yards/turn. Speed potion x2 = 528 yards/turn
528 yards/turn = 176 yards/second = 360 miles/hr.
Roughly 46% of the speed of sound at base, going up to around Mach 1.3 if we spend 1m or decide to travel cross-country.
-The AoE of Molly's Signature charm at Essence 3 is a sphere 1500 yards radius. Almost 2 miles across.
For reference, the typical thunderstorm is around 15 miles across and is less than 70mph.
I suspect a small storm moving at hundreds of miles per hour is going to make a stir on weather radar.
-And with regards to Arianna's comments about drinking a god's blood?
Its going to look like a god's scion is picking a fight with the Red Court
I mean, the Mayan pantheon did have gods of the underworld; see Cizin/Xibalba.
You wont always get the option of deciding when you can use it. See the Red Room murders in the middle of Chicago.
And I have concerns about leaving leaving changes worked by our powers lying around in a world where sympathetic magic is a thing and arcane foci makes ritual magic much easier.
Might as well invite people to scry you with magic 24/7, even if shaping defenses prevent direct damage
Oh yeah, that dirt will have literal aliens in it, microscopic ones at the very least, on the other hand if you get enough of it and you will have things like this in it:
If you start leaving physical advanced magitechnology sprinkled everywhere then your breaking the masquerade on purpose. I'm not sure how you could see that as anything else.
People can ignore shit that doesn't effect their everyday lives. They WILL notice that the office printer got rigged up and talks now.
Yeah but it doesn't matter if we transport a thousand tons of dirt in the middle of a museum and then a geologist looks over it. Dirts not gonna break the masquerade no matter how hard we try.
Arianna rolled 7 successes, and spent 1wp for an autosux, for a total of 8L damage.
Molly rolled 7 successes on her soak roll, for 7 soak.
That means Molly suffered 1L of damage. And she should be at 10/11.
Not that it matters during shintai, since she is using a different health track. But worth pointing out.
Coming back to this, because I went back to check, and yes: Apparently only mortal wizards can cast death curses.
And only those of sufficient power at that, with the time and focus to get one off.
Bianca St Claire was a Red Court sorceress in Grave Peril, and didnt have one to throw when she died
Summer Lady Aurora was mortal born, and threw no death curse when she was dying, whether from incapability or unwillingness; indeed, the threat of Dresden's death curse in Summer Knight was a plot point that kept him alive at one point.
Jenny Greenteeth was a Sidhe sorceress and died without throwing one.
Fomor cantrev lord Mag was a sorcerer, and had no death curse against Marcone in Even Hand
His brother, also a Fomor cantrev lord, had no death curse to throw against Etri in Bombshells. None of the fomor sorcerers at Battle Grounds got any off.
Arianna Ortega did not have a death curse to throw in Changes. Neither did any of the other Red Court sorcerers at Chitchen Itza
Lasciel!Hannah Ascher died too quickly to cast a death curse.
So did Thorned Namshiel's bearer in Small Favor, not that throwing a death curse at a Knight would have worked.
But ex-Denarian Quintus Cassius had the time, and did throw a death curse at Dresden.
You need to be human or of human ancestry to have access to a death curse, and then have the time and focus to throw one.
A scion who is a wizard should be sufficiently human to do so, but a human born who has abandoned their humanity for another species would not.
Winter Knight Dresden would have one. Winter Lady Molly would not.
A fomor probably would.
A Denarian probably would, as long as its the human thats in control. A bodyjumping necromancer like Corpsetaker probably would; the template Creature of Darkness is an addition, not a replacement.
I dont know if ghouls can even become wizards; none of the ghoul clans in canon appear to have ever produced one.
Exceptions?
Black Court vampires might be able to level death curses. Might.
McCoy brings it up as a theory with regards to Mavra in Blood Rites when Dresden goes after her group in the homeless shelter.
The fact that they broke the Black Court as a power without record of multiple death curses being thrown suggests its just a theory . So I would personally doubt that.
The setting would look very different if the fall of the Black Court had Blampire elders setting off death curses as they died.
And Butcher has a Word of Jim that specifically mentions a death curse on Siriothrax's hoard as a reason why its still there.
So presumably Dragons might have an equivalent.
COMMENTARY
-In shintai, Molly is Dexterity 8.
Molly's base speed in shintai is (Dex 8 x3 + 20) = 44 yards/turn
Windborn Stride x3 = 132 yards/turn. Swift Stride x2 = 264 yards/turn. Speed potion x2 = 528 yards/turn
528 yards/turn = 176 yards/second = 360 miles/hr.
Roughly 46% of the speed of sound at base, going up to around Mach 1.3 if we spend 1m or decide to travel cross-country.
-The AoE of Molly's Signature charm at Essence 3 is a sphere 1500 yards radius. Almost 2 miles across.
For reference, the typical thunderstorm is around 15 miles across and is less than 70mph.
I suspect a small storm moving at hundreds of miles per hour is going to make a stir on weather radar.
-And with regards to Arianna's comments about drinking a god's blood?
Its going to look like a god's scion is picking a fight with the Red Court
I mean, the Mayan pantheon did have gods of the underworld; see Cizin/Xibalba.
You wont always get the option of deciding when you can use it. See the Red Room murders in the middle of Chicago.
And I have concerns about leaving leaving changes worked by our powers lying around in a world where sympathetic magic is a thing and arcane foci makes ritual magic much easier.
Might as well invite people to scry you with magic 24/7, even if shaping defenses prevent direct damage
Fair point about death curses, especially with regards to Arianna herself, if she could do that she would have done it in canon. I am going to have to change some things motivation wise, but nothing too drastic while the alternative would be too great of a shift from canon
Oh yeah, that dirt will have literal aliens in it, microscopic ones at the very least, on the other hand if you get enough of it and you will have things like this in it:
Probably a good idea not to choose the option that risks uncontrolled introduction of invasive species into a new biosphere.
Modern concerns about invasive earthworms from Asia and Europe in North America are instructive.
Fair point about death curses, especially with regards to Arianna herself, if she could do that she would have done it in canon. I am going to have to change some things motivation wise, but nothing too drastic while the alternative would be too great of a shift from canon
Probably a good idea not to choose the option that risks uncontrolled introduction of invasive species into a new biosphere.
Modern concerns about invasive earthworms from Asia and Europe in North America are instructive.
Considering the nature of the wheel I would not expect any animals from our kingdom to be a successful invasive species on earth a world without the wheel.
Considering the nature of the wheel I would not expect any animals from our kingdom to be a successful invasive species on earth a world without the wheel.
Considering the nature of the wheel I would not expect any animals from our kingdom to be a successful invasive species on earth a world without the wheel.
Barren Waste Infliction (••••)
Breathing out the very Essence of the Hell of Burrowing Maggots into the world, the Infernal summons a plague of spirit-maggots that devour everything around her, and then when nothing else remains, devour one another. What is left behind is a landscape barren of life, covered in dust and sand and pitted stone.
System: Spend 5 Essence to summon the maggots to assail the landscape within 10 yards of the Infernal. They're of no particular threat to any living creature that isn't somehow immobilized and unable to move away from them, but will devour all plant life within minutes. What's left behind is a place of desolation – and, in its reflection in the Spirit World, a tainted place that calls out to wicked spirits to come forth and take up residence. The Infernal reduces the difficulty of all rolls by one within her wasteland.
She can grow a wasteland by either using this Charm again, or else through sacrifices within its boundaries. The murder of a human being expands the waste by another 10 yards in all directions. The murder of a supernatural being (that is not a creature of darkness) such as a mage or werewolf increases its radius by 100 yards. The flesh of sacrificed beings erupts into boiling mag- gots, which range out through the wasteland to do their work once they reach its border. Alternately, rather than expanding the radius, such a sacrifice may be used to "roll back" the number of times the Infernal is considered to have attempted to don her Shintai form during the current story by one, reducing its cost or difficulty accordingly (to a minimum of Essence 2, Willpower 2, and no roll requirement).
Sacrifices can be conducted by either the Infernal herself, or else by servants she has suborned with Demonic Primacy of Essence, Maggot Mana Plague, or Verdant Emptiness Endowment.
If the character knows The King and the Kingdom, she may pay 5 Essence during a sacrifice. Doing so prevents the wasteland from growing, and instead transforms it, bit by bit, into a physical incarnation of her inner Hell-realm. After one such sacrifice, the wasteland displays only subtle touches of the Infernal's Kingdom, but after ten such blasphemies, it becomes a perfect Hell on Earth. The sacrifice of a supernatural being is worth five lesser sacrifices for this purpose.
Signature Effect: While standing within the boundaries of her wasteland, the Infernal may assume her Shintai form automatically, without the need of an Essence or Willpower expenditure or a dice roll. However, doing so reduces the area of desolation's borders by 100 yards. If this destroys its power outright, then the Infernal loses 3 points of Willpower upon returning to her normal form.
We chose to vote for an exotic Hell. Our choices have implications for what we can do with them, and its effects on other parts of the setting. Permanent changes appear to encroach on the functionality of Barren Waste Infliction, so I question whether the QM should alllow it at all.
I certainly dont think it would be wise; too much potential for catastrophe.
But I can live with it, as long as we can toggle the setting to temporary.
We chose to vote for an exotic Hell. Our choices have implications for what we can do with them, and its effects on other parts of the setting. Permanent changes appear to encroach on the functionality of Barren Waste Infliction, so I question whether the QM should alllow it at all.
I certainly dont think it would be wise; too much potential for catastrophe.
But I can live with it, as long as we can toggle the setting to temporary.
I think it's preferable if it's a toggle option. Thematically it'd make a certain amount of sense if it's controllable with lay of the land. Though I think it would make just as much sense as it being permanent because of the nature of a lot of infernal stuff bringing ruin whether we want it or not. A good portion of our charms list will never be chosen cause their practically evil in every circumstance or give too much collateral.
Making it possible to selectively make the changes permanent might be too much, but what about taking a page from BWI's book and pinning it against doing something or killing something impressive while it's up?
Make it simpler to apply than that charm, since we're talking about something that was very expensive to acquire and is very situational to trigger, but still something we have to engage deliberately and requires us to do something interesting when we want to permanently reshape the world in our image.
I think the best option would simply be that we need to do something resonant with the themes we draw on in that particular activation. Not necessarily something epic in its own right, but at least worth its own Snapple fact in the history of the place when compared to its peers in the FCF.
If we turn a slice of parkland into an alien jungle it only becomes permanent if we lead a great hunt, or escape from one, inside it. If we want the beginnings of an industrial plant to stick around we better forge something inside related to what it produces. A slice of labyrinth better have held something worth spreading rumors about inside for at least a moment.
The practical arguments for temporary applications are compelling, but it feels a little hollow fluff wise for the mark of a budding demiurge and herald of a new age to just fade.
A fuzzy thematic trigger we can manage but not flip at will seems like a reasonable and balanced compromise.
Making it possible to selectively make the changes permanent might be too much, but what about taking a page from BWI's book and pinning it against doing something or killing something impressive while it's up?
Make it simpler to apply than that charm, since we're talking about something that was very expensive to acquire and is very situational to trigger, but still something we have to engage deliberately and requires us to do something interesting when we want to permanently reshape the world in our image.
I think the best option would simply be that we need to do something resonant with the themes we draw on in that particular activation. Not necessarily something epic in its own right, but at least worth its own Snapple fact in the history of the place when compared to its peers in the FCF.
If we turn a slice of parkland into an alien jungle it only becomes permanent if we lead a great hunt, or escape from one, inside it. If we want the beginnings of an industrial plant to stick around we better forge something inside related to what it produces. A slice of labyrinth better have held something worth spreading rumors about inside for at least a moment.
The practical arguments for temporary applications are compelling, but it feels a little hollow fluff wise for the mark of a budding demiurge and herald of a new age to just fade.
A fuzzy thematic trigger we can manage but not flip at will seems like a reasonable and balanced compromise.
Well that would be you being somewhat silly. Might as well vote against us ever going to our kingdom again or letting anyone in or out for fear of super germs.
Being able to select if it's permanent or not as we please is a more powerful than it being permanent or temporary exclusively. Asking for it without limitation seems like a bit much to me.
This seems like a balanced restriction to trade for the extra functionality. More importantly, satisfying it would be an inherently interesting process instead of a checkbox.
Being able to select if it's permanent or not as we please is a more powerful than it being permanent or temporary exclusively. Asking for it without limitation seems like a bit much to me.
This seems like a balanced restriction to trade for the extra functionality. More importantly, satisfying it would be an inherently interesting process instead of a checkbox.
That seems a little close what the other charm does. Cross functionality is one thing, see our 4 fomor charms, but using the exact same rule doesn't leave much to distinguish the effects.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Sep 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM, finished with 106 posts and 14 votes.
[X] The Cities
-[X] (Stunt) Crystal and metal seems to grow from the walls and bottom of the cabin, walls and artworks from the City of Fountains. At first glance it only seems made to restrict the movement of the vampires, but on closer look barriers are also forming over the mortals and half-mortals that are passed out from the pressure-changes or catatonic from Seeker's presence. There won't be any more free drinks tonight.
[X] Wastes
-[X] Stunt- The clouds around the plane change and super conducting posion fog fills the plane. It forms protective cocons around the mortals according to Molly's will. A storm of Lightning bolts strikes the plane and pases through the coulds.
[x]A Proper Airplane
-[X] [Stunt] All over the airplane subtlety shifts. More cushions. The Aluminium shifts to some other metal. The hole torn in the side is replaced with an airlock. Wings of Aetheryc Spite's voice suddenly comes over the new loudspeakers "Thank you for granting this ones unworthy wish Empress allow me to show you proper flying". And everything jerks at as once commercial plane start picks up speed. There is a loud boom. "We should reach sunlight in just a few minutes Empress"
[x]A Proper Airplane
-[X] [Stunt] All over the airplane subtlety shifts. More cushions. The Aluminium shifts to some other metal. The hole torn in the side is replaced with an airlock. Wings of Aetheryc Spite's voice suddenly comes over the new loudspeakers "Thank you for granting this ones unworthy wish Empress allow me to show you proper flying". And everything jerks at as once commercial plane start picks up speed. There is a loud boom. "We should reach sunlight in just a few minutes Empress"
-[x][stunt] As the green sun emblems form on the walls you realize. This is Green Sun 1 the private jet that was designed exclusively for the Empress to comes explicit use. No expense was spare for a single cubic cm resulting in an air ship capable of fly in storms of iron right into the teeth of the wind without a scratch. In these calm sky it might as well be a hummingbird for how nimble it is every movement feels like an extension of your own body every sway of the deck playing into your over movement and against the movement of your enemies. "I have come up on the earth in so doing claimed dominion."
[X] The Cities
-[X] Like a fast-growing vine, sensor circuitry spreads across the walls of the plane, forming the meditativ fractal patterns. The windows are replaced by advanced screens that double as cameras, and now the eyes of the machine spirit guiding the plane. Grav plates fade into existence under the floors, even as chairs warp and morph into advanced combat training mannequins. The scent of saffron and the rhythmic war prayers fill the air. All around you an environment that wouldn't be out of place in a mastery proving halls of a long-storied City of Swords monastery comes into existence.
