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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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@DragonParadox, would this work as a Crown question without burning the Merlin himself as a focus?

[X] That beard has seen some shit...
-[X] "I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
--[X] Assuming he agrees, warn the gathered wizards to expect our anima to manifest. "Please excuse the light show. This is somewhat eye-catching, no pun intended." If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
---[X] Using the Merlin's beard as a focus, ask our Crown to sort the previously established list of White Council traitors by how often they are in the beard's presence.
 
Goldfish said:
@DragonParadox, would this work as a Crown question without burning the Merlin himself as a focus?

[X] That beard has seen some shit...
-[X] "I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
--[X] Assuming he agrees, warn the gathered wizards to expect our anima to manifest. "Please excuse the light show. This is somewhat eye-catching, no pun intended." If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
---[X] Using the Merlin's beard as a focus, ask our Crown to sort the previously established list of White Council traitors by how often they are in the beard's presence.
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Sadly no, no matter how luscious his beard is,it is still a part of him.
 
Goldfish said:
@DragonParadox, would this work as a Crown question without burning the Merlin himself as a focus?

[X] That beard has seen some shit...
-[X] "I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
--[X] Assuming he agrees, warn the gathered wizards to expect our anima to manifest. "Please excuse the light show. This is somewhat eye-catching, no pun intended." If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
---[X] Using the Merlin's beard as a focus, ask our Crown to sort the previously established list of White Council traitors by how often they are in the beard's presence.
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This seems way too close to exposing the crown.

We don't need to pull something this obvious to help. Tell Arthur we're somewhat concerned about things we've heard about traitors on the council to explain our hesitation on some matters, then give the full list to Ebenezer who already knows the score.

Work with Ebenezer to expose the traitors and simultaneously to find a public excuse so we can bring in the Merlin. We can hit virtually the same timetable without tipping our hand to everyone present or capable of sneaking a peak at this meeting.
 
Goldfish said:
Considering just how noticeable our aura is, and how easily the class of enemies we regularly deal with can detect it, I would argue that BMI should come before SGI.
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Not so sure.

SGI allows us to put a clone in the Brass Courts semi-permanently to do all the off-screen social and bureaucracy stuff that Molly would normally have to figure out how to do one way or the other.
Thats become increasingly pressing with our buying a Hell.

On the other hand, while they are both 5 dots, BMI is 15xp to SGI's 20xp.
And that might end up being decisive with regards to precedence.

BronzeTongue said:
Leaving clones with mortal grade defenses who know all we know running around seems like an even worse idea that ever to me, BMI or no. Leaving them in the FCF sure, but letting them out in the world where hiding matters is just asking to get one kidnapped, brain blasted, and pumped for information until we notice the problem.
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Im reasonably sure we had some of this discussion previously with the QM about clone vulnerability, and which charms apply to a clone. And I think we established that IPM and Ox-Bodies might be one of those.

At worst, its a reason to buy Inner Devil Unleashed and use it on every SGI clone you summon and leave in reality.
Someone tries to grab a clone, they get a Ferectoi running around with enough powers to claw their face off.
DragonParadox said:
A spell of control on its own however dark does not change one's metaphysical nature into a Creature of Darkness so unfortunately no.
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I dont remember if we've had this convo before.

Because for a wizard, thats in "summon demon" or "carry multiple vials of mistfiends" suicide bomber territory.
I would argue that if magical mind control can literally make you do worse than a 3-dot Infernal charm like Mind Spider Curse, it should definitely ping.

Maybe we should just bite the bullet and get Essence-Dissecting Stare.
THAT has no mention in its mechanics or fluff about Creatures of Darkness; it just reveals Truth.
 
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uju32 said:
Im reasonably sure we had some of this discussion previously with the QM about clone vulnerability, and which charms apply to a clone. And I think we established that IPM and Ox-Bodies might be one of those.

At worst, its a reason to buy Inner Devil Unleashed and use it on every SGI clone you summon and leave in reality.
Someone tries to grab a clone, they get a Ferectoi running around with enough powers to claw their face off.

I dont remember if we've had this convo before.

Because for a wizard, thats in "summon demon" or "carry multiple vials of mistfiends" suicide bomber territory.
I would argue that if magical mind control can literally make you do worse than a 3-dot Infernal charm like Mind Spider Curse, it should definitely ping.

Maybe we should just bite the bullet and get Essence-Dissecting Stare.
THAT has no mention in its mechanics or fluff about Creatures of Darkness; it just reveals Truth.
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Opening her inner eye and attuning it to spiritual desolation, the Infernal gains the ability to detect potential servants or rivals, and to weigh the souls of those she meets.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. For the rest of the scene, the Infernal becomes aware when she stands in the presence of any creature of darkness, though she doesn't inherently know what sort of supernatural being any given individual may be. Furthermore, by concentrating on a specific individual for a few moments and making a successful Perception + Occult roll against difficulty 6, she can behold the subtleties of their anima and learn their current emotional state, as well as some clues about their nature. If you wish to embellish this with aura colors and the like, a chart can be found on page 136 of V20.

The charm can see creatures of darkness, you instinctively, no roll, know if you are near one and and with a bit of effort you can tell things about them. Like most charms it is specialized.

firefrog600 said:
hypothetically if we tore off his beard would it work?
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Yep that would work. A very Infernal solution
 
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uju32 said:
Im reasonably sure we had some of this discussion previously with the QM about clone vulnerability, and which charms apply to a clone. And I think we established that IPM and Ox-Bodies might be one of those.

At worst, its a reason to buy Inner Devil Unleashed and use it on every SGI clone you summon and leave in reality.
Someone tries to grab a clone, they get a Ferectoi running around with enough powers to claw their face off.
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They get passives only, and I don't think they're valid targets for IDU because they're still part of Molly. She can't template stack, which she'd be doing if she got partial exalted benefits and fomori benefits.

Even if she could, fomori suck here. They're supposed to suck even.

Hypothetically if you got to build them and used every ill advised splat as a source they can get better, but they're intended to be disposable goons and ExWoD explicitly says we're not supposed to be able to design them in part to stop min-maxing.

It's not nearly enough protection for our secrets even if I'm wrong.

Take Broken Seeker for example. He was tracking us for months and managed to narrow down when we were specifically leaving town to do business with Odin. If we'd had this setup running it's fairly likely he could have snatched our clone regardless of any fomori powers and had hours to work her over.

I'd rather make arcana shapeshifters to use as proxies than do the equivalent of including some of the juiciest lore as the toy in a happy meal.
 
DragonParadox said:
The charm can see creatures of darkness, you instinctively, no roll, know if you are near one and and with a bit of effort you can tell things about them. Like most charms it is specialized.
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Interesting. I read that as two separate effects: a passive that's limited to creatures of darkness, and an active that works on an individual we focus on. You're the QM, though.
 
[X] Goldfish

Goldfish said:
If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
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@Goldfish, don't need to make anima to appear, we already did it during introductions:
DragonParadox said:
<snip> you make a sort of sweeping gesture to encompass your black-skirted turtleneck wearing fish-net stockinged self, only a few piercings in evidence and then flaring the mark of the green sun on your brow.
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Edit: please disregard, confused caste mark with anima banner.

hypothetically if we tore off his beard would it work?
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DragonParadox said:
Yep that would work. A very Infernal solution
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@DragonParadox, would his cuff-links, belt buckle and/or spell rings work?
DragonParadox said:
not with the silver-thread embroidery around the cuffs, matching cuff-links and belt buckle.
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DragonParadox said:
the way his right hand, covered in spell rings
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If we are asking him for permission to cast a divination might as well also cast NWS. Doesn't burn a focus and if we aren't hiding it an anima flare doesn't matter. Also we are getting into high stakes negotiates here we own it to our people to play at least a bit hardball.
 
Updated my plan to use one of the Merlin's rings as a Crown focus, and to use NWS on him.

[X] I showed you mine, now you show me yours
-[X] "I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
--[X] Assuming he agrees, warn the gathered wizards to expect our anima banner to manifest. "Please excuse the light show. This is somewhat eye-catching, no pun intended." If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
---[X] Using one the Merlin's rings as a focus, ask our Crown to sort the previously established list of White Council traitors by how often they are in his presence. Also take the opportunity to use the Naked Wicked Souls Charm on him.
 
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I'd rather not give the WC any info on our Hell at all right now because anything they get will go back to the Black Council and Red Court and probably more hostilies even.

Signing our citizens up for war even though we barley know them and vise versa seems ill thought out as well. Honestly don't like either of these choices.

People need to keep in mind that Merlin has his own motives. Even if some of them align with ours that doesn't mean he isn't trying to work Molly to get as much as possible while giving as little as possible with his centuries of diplomatic experience.
Not to mention the war going on might make him desperate.
DragonParadox said:
"Sir with all due respect did you see...?" Another of the wardens, this one a man in drab brown robes under his grey cloak of office Timothy you recall his name is, the great wizard Tim.

"Respect is a thing best acted on and not spoken of," the Merlin says, his voice dangerously low.
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This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. What was the Warden going to say before Merlin shut him up?
 
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One point of order - our hell is a nationstate that is greater than any on Earth. It boasts united ideologically charged population nearly equal to the population of Earth. Magic that has been industrialized. Agents that have centuries upon centuries of practice. Don't treat it like it is fragile, like traitorous members of WC would somehow destroy it. It's an entire world, and a strong one at that. And in the Courts, they are on their home territory.
 
[X] I showed you mine, now you show me yours
-[X] "I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
--[X] Assuming he agrees, warn the gathered wizards to expect our anima banner to manifest. "Please excuse the light show. This is somewhat eye-catching, no pun intended." If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
---[X] Using one the Merlin's rings as a focus, ask our Crown to sort the previously established list of White Council traitors by how often they are in his presence. Also take the opportunity to use the Naked Wicked Souls Charm on him.
 
Goldfish said:
"I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
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Do you think that using the Crown in front of Merlin is a good idea? Especially after telling him we are about to use divination? What if he opens the Sight and sees some shit?

Edit: What if he doesn't but one or more of the Wardens with him do?
 
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BoredMan said:
Do you think that using the Crown in front of Merlin is a good idea? Especially after telling him we are about to use divination? What if he opens the Sight and sees some shit?
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Half the point of my plan is to use the Crown in an obvious, very flashy way, right after the Merlin used his divination on us. He made a point then of asking permission, so it would be a significant diplomatic faux pas for him to use another without asking. And we're keyed up and buffed enough to notice it if he does.

By using the Crown and heavily implying that doing so causes us to light up like a nuclear-powered Christmas tree decorated with eldritch eyes, we are effectively disguising our ability to do so without the light show. It's no secret that we have potent divination powers, so spreading information about false limits for those abilities is in our best interest.
 
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[X] I showed you mine, now you show me yours
-[X] "I allowed your divination, so in the spirit of cooperation and establishing further ties, would you consent to a divination of my own?"
--[X] Assuming he agrees, warn the gathered wizards to expect our anima banner to manifest. "Please excuse the light show. This is somewhat eye-catching, no pun intended." If using the Crown isn't enough to cause the anima to appear, force it to do so as part of the show.
---[X] Using one the Merlin's rings as a focus, ask our Crown to sort the previously established list of White Council traitors by how often they are in his presence. Also take the opportunity to use the Naked Wicked Souls Charm on him.
 
firefrog600 said:
Honestly the paranoias a bit annoying there is not much they can do to inconvenience us with said information.
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How do you know that?

Everyone sees something different with the Sight. You haven't the slightest idea what they may get if they decide to take a peak after we warn them before using the Crown right in front of them.
Remember what happened with Lash way back? After learning how our Crown worked from Harry she immediately tried to make us waste her as a focus. Even if people don't know what it is if we drop hints everywhere and wave it in their faces they'll eventually put together a good enough picture that it won't matter.
Goldfish said:
He made a point then of asking permission, so it would be a significant diplomatic faux pas for him to use another without asking.
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That doesn't mean he won't do it. He has no reason to think Molly would even notice it for one.
Goldfish said:
It's no secret that we have potent divination powers, so spreading information about false limits for those abilities is in our best interest.
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It is though? Our info source(s) could be anything. Earlier IIRC Guard told her boss that it could be a spirit of some sort. It doesn't have to be straight up divination. I doubt Merlin even suspects we have something like that because he has no reason too.

Recall what DP said, just because one member of an organization is aware of something doesn't mean the entire Org is.
 
Goldfish said:
Half the point of my plan is to use the Crown in an obvious, very flashy way, right after the Merlin used his divination on us. He made a point then of asking permission, so it would be a significant diplomatic faux pas for him to use another without asking. And we're keyed up and buffed enough to notice it if he does.

By using the Crown and heavily implying that doing so causes us to light up like a nuclear-powered Christian tree decorated with eldritch eyes, we are effectively disguising our ability to do so without the light show. It's no secret that we have potent divination powers, so spreading information about false limits for those abilities is in our best interest.
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Actually, aren't we setting up Harry to a no-win situation this way? He knows about the Crown, had seen Molly use it, so in the likely case his direct superiors would try to pump him for info on Molly's demonsrated abilities he would have to either betray her confidence, against his own advice even, or to lie to or transparently ignore his direct superiors' inquiries. Both bad things.

Reference when Harry seen Molly use the crown, it was the first ever use even:
DragonParadox said:
"Stars and stones, how do you know all that? Who told you?" He sounds shaken, which is kind of like impressed, but really it would be nice he he was more happy about it.

"No one told me, I looked," you answer rolling your eyes a little. "I had to choose..." you pause a moment, but its just Harry and you are sure he will understand."I had to choose one of the crowns of power and I chose the one that would let me see answers so I wouldn't be ignorant about the way the world works again. I can only ask one question about each subject, this one was about you soulgazing generally not soulgazing my power in particular because I can't... I don't have eyes on the inside." You huff. "Words, seriously words, this stuff was not meant to be understood in English."

"Don't tell anyone you you can do that," he sounds all weary now and you want to pat him on the arm or something, but you know that is a bad idea.
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I guess that means we'd better not use the Crown overtly, and we can't use it covertly as that would be betrayal of trust and reciprocity, so no dice then. Perhaps we can still ask for permission and then use NWS without the lightshow? Though that still may set up Harry for questions.

Edit: ah, I think I misjudged, we still can covertly and silently use the crown for the most frequest traitors question, as that would not infringe on any personal privacy, only on the organizational.
 
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