They would not as they are creatures of darkness and that has primacy, the charm requires that you sacrifice non-CoD beings.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- Crossover Fantasy
They would not as they are creatures of darkness and that has primacy, the charm requires that you sacrifice non-CoD beings.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I think there is some confusion here. The charm says Sacrifice humans for 10 yards. It then says sacrifice a Supernatural beings (Who are not CoDs.) for 100 yards.
She can grow a wasteland by either using this Charm again, or else through sacrifices within its boundaries. The murder of a human being expands the waste by another 10 yards in all directions. The murder of a supernatural being (that is not a creature of darkness) such as a mage or werewolf increases its radius by 100 yards.
The Text Explicitly separates the two and adds the Do not be a CoD ONLY for Supernatural beings. So from my reading, Humans, regardless of if they are CoDs or not, are valid sacrifices.
Other charms on the list make it clear that feeding CoDs to your power is not nourishing. Like your Shintai does not reset from sending CoDs to hell. The way I am reading that charm is that the sacrifice of a human gives you 10 meters, the sacrifice of a non-CoD supernatural being gives you 100 and the sacrifice of a CoD gives you nothing.
Gonna run, will talk more later.
The human sacrifice thing seems like a horrible idea to me; Molly simply wouldn't ever want to and actually doing it would turn people against us that we want on our side.
Trading access to the world as it is and the people in it for territory is a bad bargain.
Trading access to the world as it is and the people in it for territory is a bad bargain.
Man we really fuck with that don't we?
- Location
- Canada
1. Don't get it twisted. Nothing you've mentioned in any way contradicts Mab having little to do with the Red Court being genocided, because again nobody she ever dealt with ever had any interactions with Martin, who was the true mastermind behind Dresden genociding the Red Court. Dresden came pretty close to dying in the pyramid to the Red King and his Lords, especially when they went nuts, and only Dresden killing Susan saved the day. Meanwhile, Mab's contribution to the fight was busy dealing with the literal mooks, given how many Lords were still with the Red King when Dresden bumbled into them.
2. Nah. We've seen Titania's tactical acumen, and it far surpasses Mab's. Ethniu just fell for Mab's hype like everyone else, which is somewhat confusing given she kicked her through a wall in Peace Talks and KO'd her with just that, but maybe she thought Mab had to have something backing her rep. Sadly, Mab did not live up to the hype.
1. The fact that Nemesis came that close alone is pretty damning for the foremost protector of reality. Really pokes holes in the idea that Mab is some perfect ubermensch who can't be replaced.
2. Yeah? I can't think of any person who couldn't do the same. Call the wizard to deal with stuff in the mundane world, who'd ever think of that? Sad as it is that Mab's one claim to competence is doing what anyone else in her position would, it only further underlines that her few 'correct moves' were clearly obvious to anyone with a brain.
3. Yeah? Guess what would've happened if Dresden died. Ethniu would've won, and consequently, the Walker would've won. He's pretty irreplaceable at that time and place.
1. If Ethniu had a brain, she would've targeted Dresden given only Demonreach had a snowball's chance in hell of actually stopping her in Chicago. Missing that vulnerability is a pretty massive mistake considering that one move would've won her the fight.
And Mab didn't exactly shake Ethniu's confidence in herself, given she just dope-slapped Mab for the second time and demonstrated Mab could do nothing against her in a straight-up fight. Titania was the one who demonstrated the Ethniu wasn't invincible, when she washed away the fear powering the Eye with her rainstorm. Mab just damaged the morale of her own troops and more importantly deprived them of one of their strongest combatants for no reason whatsoever. Mab already had aggro, all she had to do was sidestep the Eye and let Dresden summon Titania with a steel chair, instead of taking the quickest way out of the fight that she could've.
2. My point is Ethniu is a mythological nobody who still had the stones to dick all over the assembled immortal might of the Accorded nations.
Word of Jim:
Odin lost no power when the White God banned everybody, he just lost his immortality in exchange for continuing to play the game. He got other Mantles to maintain immortality and for extra power but still ended up face down ass up when Ethniu came calling.
3. Wrong.
Literally all the other gods other than Odin did the same as Ethniu. I doubt the White God would've let them all come back in roarin' as Ethniu did if that was a loophole, so it's clear that Ethniu's just naturally that swole (otherwise why didn't Odin just call in Thor to give her the People's Elbow?)
4. The fuck? Mab sure as hell didn't 3000 IQ Death Note Rube Goldberg her victory in Battle Ground, not unless one of her names is Contessa. Given she didn't give Dresden a bodyguard or even tell him that he was the most important asset they had on their side, who absolutely could not die in any circumstance, I really can't see her foreseeing years ahead of time that Dresden would need to team up with Super Denarian Marcone (the most powerful wizard on the planet with the least amount of training) to double dog Ethniu after she needed a breather from soloing everybody else worth a damn.
Yes, I do believe Mab's 'victory' in Battle Ground was absolutely on accident, in spite of Mab's best efforts to pull her own team down into hell with her.
Buddy, I wish I didn't have to, but Mab is literally forcing me to acknowledge she doesn't know how to fight. Titania sure did, given her alpha strike involved disabling her enemy's superweapon, but Mab does not know how to fight, as was shown in Battle Ground despite your own fervent desire to the contrary.
Ethniu knows precisely what Demonreach is, you say. Funny given how she didn't choose to kill Dresden first and foremost in Battle Ground then. Funny how she didn't seem to know where it is, given she decided to fight Dresden on its front porch. Funny how she didn't burn Chicago to the ground and instead went after Dresden after she'd been completely exhausted, rather than heading back to kill all the immortals she'd piledrivered into the ground. Early you argued she wasn't a bad soldier, despite clear proof to the contrary. She came in without a plan, let her emotions cloud everything she did, and still came within an inch of ending everybody. Is it any wonder I think we could take her given her lack of anything save raw power? (Now who does that remind you of? *cough* Mab *cough*)
1. As you say, "for most of the series Winter has been working with holes in their command chain fucking up their ability to respond properly." Not a stellar recommendation of their ability to keep up with the Joneses, which combined with their inhumane and cruel mindset more than justify an imminent restructuring.
2. My point is that the Winter Queen, Lady, and Knight ain't positions in a pyramid scheme; there's job mobility here, and if one gets ganked it's not gonna take a miracle to rustle up a replacement.
3. Molly was being molded to be the Summer Lady, not the Winter Lady. She was able to act as a backup despite being intentionally molded in the opposing mindset of the Mantle of Winter.
1. Does it? Titania sure ain't sitting around doing nothing if Mab tries and cast Ice Age for whatever reason, and given how quickly she'll die I doubt Mab could manage more than a year without summer, which while a disaster it certainly doesn't mean the end of the world. Which is why Mab would never do the deed, considering killing her after the fact very much causes the deed to be undone.
2. Please, if Mab was in the Nevernever trying to end the world, all the other goons hiding in the Nevernever are free to take a shot at her. Which includes gods like Zeus, Shiva, and all those nice and restrained gentlebeings. Given Mab trying to Ice Age the planet would be motivation enough for everyone to gang up on her, it wouldn't be much of a fight for Winter. Not to mention given Winter's purpose, I can't see Mother Winter helping Mab kill humanity (but she probably wouldn't stop her given how useless and irrelevant the Mothers are).
As is your prerogative. I disagree with your opinion regarding Mab's competence as well.
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- Location
- Right Where I Am
We're an exalt in her place of power. If the laws of physics want a say in things, then they get in line, and they politely ask permission.
Harry has an approach to pain. He appreciates pain. Hell, in Ghost Story he practically has a love letter to pain, and goes on about how it is life. Harry is a masochist.
Proven Guilty shows that demon isn't any sort of technical term. It's just a general thing to call any hostile inhuman thing from beyond. Not from the main reality of Earth, has claws and fangs, and trying to eat my face? Yeah, that's a demon.
Why do you say that?
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- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X] Introduce yourself as you are, as one who does not know them well but wishes to, as one who is young by the measure of this world, but wishing rule justly and wisely for the benefit of all
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the formal releases to come, I am not perfect, nor omniscient. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
-[X] Stunt: Pausing for a moment between heartbeats, you catch your visage reflected in one of the numerous camera-eyes upon you. A being of terrible awe and glory perched imperiously upon her throne, clad in basalt and brass, her face hidden by the a war helmet. The next words you say are the most important words of your life so far, you realize. Who do you want to be? You shift your posture ever so slightly, making yourself look more approachable, less of a threat. Feeling the ever present ferocious storms of your realm sway in tune with your words, you speak: "Hello to all of you. I am Molly Carpenter, the one you have been waiting for, and from the throne at the center of this Creation I welcome you all to the first day of the rest of our lives. Our, because we are in this together. As you will learn in the formal releases to come, I am not perfect, nor omniscient. I cannot say that I fully grasp the enormity and the depth of our world yet. What I can state and vow is that I want to learn about all of you, and that I will do my best by you, and to the benefit of us all. It is with this in mind that I declare my first decree - for as long as I live, balefire cancer will no longer torment those under my aegis"
Nemesis had been trying and failing for millennia before they made it far enough to play this game.
Even if Mab was flawlessly perfect at everything, which she isn't, that isn't enough to ensure determined and powerful opposition always loses without making any progress.
@uju32 is overstating things in my view, but your standards are unrealistic. Nobody is going to have a perfect record here, and when something slips the enemy will exploit it to the hilt. If we replace her then in the fullness of time Nemesis or whatever replaces it after we eat the original will pull at least one over on us too.
Sure we're potentially more powerful, but the primordials and exalted both got screwed despite being in the league we're aiming for. More powerful and skilled means more options and better capacity to handle things going wrong, it doesn't mean you always win.
- Location
- Right Where I Am
I'd say it actually makes the most sense given the main vote. This vote is about not being the grand ascension of the God-Empress of Hell. It's the friendly introduction of Molly to her people. Which name does she use when she's just being herself in life outside of any sort of formality with friends and family? Molly.
That's the name that should be used. The name that fits a friendly introduction of her as just the person she is rather than the formal power that be.
- Location
- Canada
I'm not asking for perfection and honestly for anyone else Mab's record would be great, given how long she's defended reality successfully.
It's just when people start talking about how she's irreplaceable and never takes a loss despite all the proof to the contrary, that I get a little heated. It's less the idea of having to perfectly defend against every Outside incursion and more than you can't use your record of defending against Outside incursions to justify your continued existence when said record isn't demonstrably sufficient to give you carte blanche over your war crimes as Mab and her supporters seem to think it does.
So, it occurs to me that while we don't know the Path of Summoning yet, Harry does. Depending on how much he trusts us and the whole situation, he has just gotten a very large boost in power. Even if by the Rules of White God he has to pay equal services, he could most likely exchange "training Molly in the Paths of Sorcery and performing services for her in the real world" in exchange for aid. And being able to call forth a SWAT team of power armored magical dragon-men is a strong argument.
[X] Welcome them to the wider cosmos, an era of change is at hand, but they should not be fearful for it will be a fair one, for those wishing a challenge of heroism and glory, for scholars of new lore, for all better richer lives
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
Updating vote.
Really not a fan of the "first day of school" feel I am getting from the currently winning options.
-[X] ATB, Leadership excellency
Updating vote.
Really not a fan of the "first day of school" feel I am getting from the currently winning options.
Their are loads of ways to get sacrifices without issue. For one find some old people near death, and offer them money to leave behind for their loved ones. Or some variation of that. Not like the charm requires that they be unwilling.
Brokering a deal with the white council of this nature might be worthwhile as well.
Our people deserve to be paid for their work, so not all of it would be to our direct profit exactly, but if the council can be convinced to trust us then we could act as a direct counter to the issue of the red court's summoned demons/outsiders.
If they specifically summon our devils and not mortals it's even low risk. Most DF entities of that type don't die if you kill them in the mortal world, they get kicked back home. You've got to do something special or follow them home to make sure they stay that way.
This all comes up with Binder and his goons, because it's part of why his demon minions are nearly suicidally indifferent to the risks of his orders. As full spirit entities of the nevernever that have to spend energy holding a body of ectoplasm together to stay in the mortal world almost every variety of death on the job is just a novel experience to explore.
My assumption is that of our own people only the spirits of various things DP described would actually benefit, anything with a mortal life under the wheel would probably die permanently if it got summoned and bit it away from Molly.
Though it's an interesting question if as her worshippers they'd get "damned" to her hell to be reincarnated as normal as a sort of loophole. Possibly one with a cost to them because they leave something behind unlike proper spirits.
I'd prefer to stick to our demons and trained cadres of war animals for the most part as a result.
Summon dinosaur allies I-XI is a perfectly scary new spell for the council, even discounting all the more exotic options and potential weapons a trained critter could be armed with.
Behemoth Walkers with possessed auto cannons would be a fun surprise to pull during an assault to name one example.
I'm not aware of any metaphysical law saying that deals you make with Nevernever creatures you summon have to be fair.
- Location
- washington
Imma note the jade court is not allied with china or anything they don't even call it china lol.
I think "if killed they experience a normal turn of the wheel and return to our kingdom after a while" wouldn't be a loophole at all. At least as long as they are our worshippers. Non-humans are (derived from) third circle demons. Humans are trickier, but we have a claim to their souls, and they are (or might be) from Exalted iteration of humanity, and so not subject to White God's jurisdiction.
And yeah, the ability to summon supernatural fighters to help them would be of a big help to White Council.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Ok. I've been thinking, what kind of message do we want to give here?
The way I see it, the message our current speech is going for is: We are a caring god in the Greek sense new to the role but looking forward to learning.
The way I see it, the message our current speech is going for is: We are a caring god in the Greek sense new to the role but looking forward to learning.
Molly is not sure what would happen if one of her worshipers died somewhere else and since it has never come up in the history of the world she cannot just roll occult for it. The devils would be fine though as long as they are not killed with highly specific and destructive weapons or spells.
- Location
- washington
Uh there are non demon beings that are both evil and fucky looking which they don't call demons. Phobophages, certain fae, certain monstrous hounds that I can't remember the name of, completely non human ghouls, etc etc.
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- washington
I don't think anyone believes mab is irreplaceable just that she is in the short term. Because she's not gonna have anyone as competent replacing her and we sure as fuck don't want her role that sounds like hell.
I find it fairly likely mabs gonna die in the final books. Given the final books are probably some level of apocalypse.