So? Causing mass death of normal people by way of disease in an uncontrolled matter isn't nearly as impressive. It doesn't say that he is powerful just that he considers causing mass death as an end goal in it's own right.
You are failing into the "perfect is the enemy of good enough" trap. 5 dot craft charm is for designing top tier objects - wonders of exalted craft. Right now, we are using essentially tier 0 equipment - perfectly mundane single legendary success tier armor with no additional enchantments or magical materials. There are a number of tiers between it and the equipment you are proposing we go for:
1) Right now we can be throwing 18 dice (2*7 + 2 WHWH + 2 stunt) at DC 3 at crafting attempts, on a key ability. That's near guaranteed 15+ successes. That's qualitative difference of two degrees of legendarity right there.
2) By raising our craft to 5 dots for 7 XP we get 4 more dice. That's a dice pool of at least 20.
3) By getting access to 2 dot path enchantments and alchemy we can add 6 more dice to that (2 dice from ability enhancer potion, two dice from 2 dot craft enchanting amulet, and 2 dice from 2 dot dexterity enchanting amulet). This can be done via either buying the potion recipe (2 XP) and training enchantment, or getting access to our kingdom and commissioning / buying / taking such amulets as tribute.
4) We qualitatively change the crafting paradigm by getting access to mortal magical materials at tier 3 of alchemy.
5) We change the paradigm again by getting access to exalted magical materials - we know that magical jade and gossamer exist, and in a setting like Dresden Files, I am fairly sure there's some soulsteel and orichalcium around somewhere.
6) Getting access to our kingdom (assuming advanced civilization) is another whole new tier of upgrades. We get access to 5+5+enchantment statted craftsmen and enchanters with centuries, if not millenia of experience willing to help us. We almost certainly get access to mortal tier path potions, magical materials and enchantments as something we could commission, and we get access to advanced construction ideas.
7) By getting access to Devil-Refining Cauldron we get to make our equipment into fetishes.
While I, as someone who enjoys crafting and reading about crafting, would want to take multiple of those steps as separate, I understand that this is not for everyone. However, I maintain that we should do at least one intermediary step before getting to 5 dot craft charm wonders.
Get our kingdom + maybe raise craft to 5. At this point we almost certainly get mortal-tier magical materials + mortal tier ability enhancing potions and enchanted objects. This should raise our dice pool to at least 24, and we'd be operating with magical materials as a baseline, and using assistance of very experienced superhuman devil crafters. Craft necessary equipment at that tier, which should net us 20+, likely 25+ successes per piece of equipment. That is almost guaranteed to net us at least one, possibly more discounts for 5 dot crafting charm. And give us good equipment.
Funny. I would argue that you are the one falling into the trap by attempting to wait until some undefined point in the future when we can reduce the costs of the Exalted Crafting charm by 30%. Im reasonably sure you would recoil violently if I suggested we do much the same for the Hell charm, and you'd be right to.
Enchantment 2 is 7xp.
Craft 5 is also 7xp.
Combined, we're already at 14xp, which is only 4xp short of what you need for Exalted Crafting.
Devil-Refining Cauldron is 16XP.
The fact that gossamer exists does not mean that other exalted MMs do.
It certainly doesnt suggest that you can do any crafting with the inclusion of Exalted magical materials by using mortal Path Sorcery enchantment.
Almost as importantly, you are missing the fact that Exalted Crafting is also necessary for stuff thats well outside the provenance of the mortal Sorcery Paths, like
1) Household gods of buildings/properties, which is going to be something we require in the 2007 year with regards to establishing safehouses for stashing guests and minions
2) The problem of Lash and her progenitor, where one of the reasons we havent raised her situation with Dresden is specifically because we dont have the means for doing anything besides exorcising her.
Thats straightup outside the provenance of most Path sorcery short of Tier 6 bullshit, very high end wizardry or divine miracles.
Exalted Crafting also handles both of those. As well as a bunch of other things.
There are opportunity costs to delays, and the setting and its events move along at its own pace whether or not we choose to up our game or not.
This is not to say that Enchantment and mortal Craft does not have its place, or that we shouldnt get Enchantment Path.
Or that we shouldnt eventually max out Craft.
But the idea that we should insist on completionism here before investing in Exalted Crafting seems opposed to our every strategy and need to date.
Mortals with mortal dice and whatever equipment we happen to have and training we manage to fit in our schedule they can use. Their template from us is a passive speed/unit buff and immunity to betraying their intimacies. Maybe DPE. Basically nothing else is passive on our part.
A ghoul has a better stat block, can carry more equipment for their specific role, and can at minimum match mortal grade skill.
Clones are fragile utility systems, not some grand combat trick. Making them anything else requires more and more investment on our part that would be better delegated to actual minions.
That's why we have them.
That assertion is true for the base charm utility.
It isnt true for the Signature Charm effect, which explicitly says that your miniboss clones get your normal body.
The one that you use when you arent in shintai; I quote:
Signature Effect: When the Infernal dons her Shintai form, (Essence rating) clones emerge along- side her when her chrysalis shatters. They don't count against the normal clone limit of Splintered Gale Incarnation, and will vanish into crimson wind when the Shintai form ends; they cannot be reabsorbed. To be clear, these are clones of the Infernal's normal form, not her Shintai body.
The Abyssal one kills anything with any form of immortality, regardless of source.Molly has no age limit because there aren't primordials around to enforce one, and would add an auto res with that charm.
I only need one black swan to prove that all swans are not white.
1) No, I think you are mistaken.
It prevents particular classes of beings from returning AFTER you kill them.You still need to kill them first. Here's the text:
Soul-eating Strike (••)
The Abyssal may consign those she slays immediately and irrevocably to Oblivion.
System: When the Abyssal slays any being, the player can opt to roll Wits + Occult (difficulty 6). Doing so prevents spirits and ghosts from ever returning or reforming, annihilates the eternal essence of demons, prevents any ensouled being from reincarnating or becoming a wraith, and annihilates the eternal soul of even mummies – although Celestial Exaltation cannot be destroyed with Soul Eating Strike. The Abyssal gains 3 Essence on the spot if the annihilated being was in any sense immortal, such as a spirit, ghost, demon, vampire, or mummy. Furthermore, the Abyssal can reflexively spend 1 Essence to gain the ability to strike and damage intangible beings for the rest of the scene, so long as she can perceive them.
Notice the distinct lack of Exalts on that list.
2)Furthermore? Infernals are not immortal; there are explicit age limits. I quote:
Exalted vs World of Darkness page 441 said:
Chapter One addresses the age limits of the Dragon-Blooded, but how about the rest of the Exalted? Solars, Lunars, and Infernals can live for 2,000 to 3,000 years.Sidereals live for 4,000 to 5,000 years. Abyssal lifespans are theoretically infinite. Alchemicals are looking at a bit higher than Dragon-Blooded-ish lifespans: 200-500 years. Liminals can live for as long as they can keep replacing worn-out body parts, i.e. indefinitely. If the World of Darkness lasts that long, the first Celestial Exalt to die of old age is probably going to do it while exploring planets over in the Alpha Centauri system
So even if we granted your definition?
Abyssal spiritkillers would still be inapplicable, because Infernals are supposed to die, like most other Exalts.
Oddly enough, the only canon Exalts who dont die are Abyssals.
Of course, the QM could very well change the rules in this quest to accomodate plot, as is his prerogative.
But thats not Holden's canon.
So? Causing mass death of normal people by way of disease in an uncontrolled matter isn't nearly as impressive. It doesn't say that he is powerful just that he considers causing mass death as an end goal in it's own right.
Uhhh fairly sure hes not just killing people for shits and giggles hes not the joker he clearly has a larger reason for the things he does. Some figures in dresden files are clearly in it for shits and giggles hes not from what I've seen.
I dont think it does.
Because you dont die.
Thats kinda the point of the charm.Not to mention the whole Celestial Exaltation exemption, whose details are unclear.
This probably comes down to QM adjudication
Or would, if we had Abyssals to worry about.
Gotta go see if I can unfuck my sleep cycle.
The exaltation-exemption is the same one Celestial Exaltations have always had, they are indestructible even by the greatest of Charms.
Doesn't help the attached mortal soul though.
-[X]STUNT: You are abruptly, incandescently furious. "Dont you dare put that evil on me, dead man." You snarl, addressing what tattered remnants there are of the Skavis patriarch. "This was all you." Your feet touch the ground and you begin to move towards the figure, crunching through fallen glass. "Was. Before you sacrificed your son and your soul to an Outsider." You pause midstep, and side eye the Skavis retainers, along with half the eyes in the corona of virescent fire around you. No words are spoken. None are needed.
-[x] [Stunt] Doing your best Obi-wan impression, you answer him with: "You did this to yourself." You then use one of the guards as a springboard to somersault right in the middle of them all, your aura promising death to all that approach, the eyes in it vigilant to any and all attacks they could try to send your way.
-[X] Stunt: You do not spare a word or a look at the guards while charging for the creature that their lord had become, had invited into this reality. But that does not mean they are not watched, a dozen eyes of green balefire behold each guard, driving fear into their minds and asuring you that no blade will find your back unnoticed.
-[X] STUNT: From the confines of your soul you draw your sword, its weight adding to the dreadful beauty and majesty of your form, and with a motion fit for an empress proclaiming a stay of execution you indicate the guards to move aside. "Step aside" you whisper, and your voice carries, "Or be swept aside" you finish and start moving towards the enemy of Creation before you.
-[x] [Stunt] "You Cannot Hide. I SEE You. There Is Nothing For You Here. Only...Death." You then use one of the guards as a springboard to somersault right in the middle of them all, your aura promising death to all that approach, the eyes in it vigilant to any and all attacks they could try to send your way.
1) We don't need to buy enchantment. Our kingdom should take care of that - we should be able to commission necessary materials and enchantments.
2) I want to buy enchantment and craft 5 anyway. Putting those before Constructive Convergence of Principles just makes sense. Because it is likely to make CCoP cheaper. And possibly overall better.
My point is that there are several steps between "what we have now" and "exalted charm crafted equipment". You are intent on skipping towards the top tier immediately. I am not.
1) Household gods of buildings/properties, which is going to be something we require in the 2007 year with regards to establishing safehouses for stashing guests and minions
Wrong. We need exalted crafting for specific god customization. We don't need it for generalized god forging, and I actually think that having less control here is better for the moment. More interesting at least.
-[X]STUNT: You are abruptly, incandescently furious. "Dont you dare put that evil on me, dead man." You snarl, addressing what tattered remnants there are of the Skavis patriarch. "This was all you." Your feet touch the ground and you begin to move towards the figure, crunching through fallen glass. "Was. Before you sacrificed your son and your soul to an Outsider." You pause midstep, and side eye the Skavis retainers, along with half the eyes in the corona of virescent fire around you. No words are spoken. None are needed.
-[x] [Stunt] Doing your best Obi-wan impression, you answer him with: "You did this to yourself." You then use one of the guards as a springboard to somersault right in the middle of them all, your aura promising death to all that approach, the eyes in it vigilant to any and all attacks they could try to send your way.
-[X] Stunt: You do not spare a word or a look at the guards while charging for the creature that their lord had become, had invited into this reality. But that does not mean they are not watched, a dozen eyes of green balefire behold each guard, driving fear into their minds and asuring you that no blade will find your back unnoticed.
-[X] STUNT: From the confines of your soul you draw your sword, its weight adding to the dreadful beauty and majesty of your form, and with a motion fit for an empress proclaiming a stay of execution you indicate the guards to move aside. "Step aside" you whisper, and your voice carries, "Or be swept aside" you finish and start moving towards the enemy of Creation before you.
-[x] [Stunt] "You Cannot Hide. I SEE You. There Is Nothing For You Here. Only...Death." You then use one of the guards as a springboard to somersault right in the middle of them all, your aura promising death to all that approach, the eyes in it vigilant to any and all attacks they could try to send your way.
The point of using an action in this case rather than trying to soak dmg is so we can get the XP we'll prob get for pulling it off. The chances of failure should be very low.
The point of using an action in this case rather than trying to soak dmg is so we can get the XP we'll prob get for pulling it off. The chances of failure should be very low.
Also GSP charms have the exact same ability to kill things as Abyssals, with the explicit exception that they can't kill Primordials past Fetich death with their native charms.
They literally get the same mechanical effects at the same essence rating, base effect permadeaths all spirits and numerous other things (like primordials and the various Exalt get out of death free effects), repurchase at essence 5 allows the total destruction of the souls of anything killed and repurchase at essence 7 allow the breaking of even perfect inheritance/reincarnation effects with the sole exception of exaltations.
Abyssals are really good at killing things, they are the high priests of Oblivion so they would stop all forms of returning from death however Splintered Gale is avoiding death altogether, fluff wise when you should have died you turn into a wave of screaming sand that finds some other version of yourself, still alive and make that your main avatar. You are not returning, you are not ascending to a higher plane, the infernal who possessed Splintered Gale was simply not all there.
That does mean that any magic able to say seal in the effects of the charm so that the pieces cannot reunite is very bad for the infernal since this is not arbitrary resurrection, the bloody screening sand has to race across the city/world/universe to get to where it needs to go in order to invest that part of the greater being with the crown of Exaltation and revert memories to prime.
That's literally what it says it does though. I don't recall the WoQM for every part of it, but barring a reference you're painting what you'd like to find over what's actually there.
It wouldn't be the first expensive infernal charm with a stupid effect.
So even if we granted your definition?
Abyssal spiritkillers would still be inapplicable, because Infernals are supposed to die, like most other Exalts.
Oddly enough, the only canon Exalts who dont die are Abyssals.
Of course, the QM could very well change the rules in this quest to accomodate plot, as is his prerogative.
But thats not Holden's canon.
I mean if you were a purer sort of exalt you would have a max age, but as an infernal with no Yozi to set down the rules... you live as long as you feel like it.
I dont think it does.
Because you dont die.
Thats kinda the point of the charm.Not to mention the whole Celestial Exaltation exemption, whose details are unclear.
This probably comes down to QM adjudication
Or would, if we had Abyssals to worry about.
Gotta go see if I can unfuck my sleep cycle.
splintered gale inCarnation (•••••)
The Infernal flays herself apart, creating duplicates
of herself.
System: The Infernal spends 5 Essence and
screams, issuing forth a crimson gale that resolves into a perfect copy of herself. This clone comes into the world naked, perfectly loyal to its creator, precisely aware of what it is, and in possession of the same per- sonality and memories as the Infernal. It has the same Traits as the Infernal, but is completely mortal, with no magic of any sort. Alternately, if the Infernal pos- sesses a working uterus, she can use this Charm to im- pregnate herself. This parthenogenetic child will grow up to be a perfect physical duplicate of the Infernal, but is otherwise a normal human being.
The Infernal can have up to her Essence rating in clones alive and active at once. By spending 1 Essence, she can cause a clone within her presence to unravel back into crimson wind which she absorbs, granting her all of the memories the clone accumulated during its existence. If the Infernal wishes, she may re-create specific absorbed clones in the future when using Splintered Gale Incarnation.
If the Infernal should ever die while any of her clones are abroad in the world, her body dissolves into a screaming wind that streams across the world and pours itself into the nearest clone. This destroys the clone's memories and identity as the Infernal takes over its body. Reincarnating in this fashion reduces the Infernal's Essence rating by 1. If this would reduce her to Essence 0, then reincarnation is impossible.
Signature Effect: When the Infernal dons her Shintai form, (Essence rating) clones emerge along- side her when her chrysalis shatters. They don't count
against the normal clone limit of Splintered Gale In- carnation, and will vanish into crimson wind when the Shintai form ends; they cannot be reabsorbed. To be clear, these are clones of the Infernal's normal form, not her Shintai body.
That does mean that any magic able to say seal in the effects of the charm so that the pieces cannot reunite is very bad for the infernal since this is not arbitrary resurrection, the bloody screening sand has to race across the city/world/universe to get to where it needs to go in order to invest that part of the greater being with the crown of Exaltation and revert memories to prime.
So, is it actually possible to keep a clone inside our world permanently as a backup? Would the screaming wind be able to find its way into our kingdom?
[X] Order the remaining Skavis vampires to stand down (Lets you handle the lord without distraction if it works)
-[X]Intimidation Excellency: 1m
-[X]STUNT: You are abruptly, incandescently furious. "Dont you dare put that evil on me, dead man." You snarl, addressing what tattered remnants there are of the Skavis patriarch. "This was all you." Your feet touch the ground and you begin to move towards the figure, crunching through fallen glass. "Was. Before you sacrificed your son and your soul to an Outsider." You pause midstep, and side eye the Skavis retainers, along with half the eyes in the corona of virescent fire around you. No words are spoken. None are needed.
So, is it actually possible to keep a clone inside our world permanently as a backup? Would the screaming wind be able to find its way into our kingdom?
[X] Ignore the guards, kill that thing now
-[x] [Stunt] Doing your best Obi-wan impression, you answer him with: "You did this to yourself." You then use one of the guards as a springboard to somersault right in the middle of them all, your aura promising death to all that approach, the eyes in it vigilant to any and all attacks they could try to send your way.
So, is it actually possible to keep a clone inside our world permanently as a backup? Would the screaming wind be able to find its way into our kingdom?
Not that I would think its unique or anything but things like that at least aren't common right? Also you know would probably have to know about it first.
Not that I would think its unique or anything but things like that at least aren't common right? Also you know would probably have to know about it first.
