Wait, I thought Thomas was the owner on paper?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
No, he's the face, we are the owner since day one, he's there for credibility and publicity, nothing else.
He's the CEO because it would be really odd for the CEO to be underage, but did you guys vote to make him the owner as well? I just have him marked as CEO in my notes.
I'm pretty sure the idea always was to have us be the owner, with Thomas as the face of the company.
Ah, it's perfectly ok with me. I wasn't trying to hide anyway. In my mind, being Tony Stark is a perfectly valid cover for "am infernal exalt".
No it does not.
Noone is going to believe the 17-year old high school senior is actually doing this, as opposed to being the front woman of some scam.
Not a security contractor.
Someone who works in the military industrial complex. Someone with contacts to investigate people
He cant access our financial records. They are private.
The POLICE cant simply access your financial records; they need a warrant, or the IRS and the financial system wont tell them shit:
You are probably aware that the law protects your tax return information from disclosure to other parties by the Internal Revenue Service. IRC Section 6103 generally prohibits the release of tax information by an IRS employee. However, there are important exceptions that you should be aware of.
IRC 6103(d) provides that return information may be shared with state agencies responsible for tax administration. The state agency must request this information in writing, and the request must be signed by an official designated to request tax information.
IRC 6103(i)(1) provides that, pursuant to court order, return information may be shared with law enforcement agencies for investigation and prosecution of non-tax criminal laws.
IRC 6103(k)(6) allows the IRS to make limited disclosures of return information in the course of official tax administration investigations to third parties if necessary to obtain information that is not otherwise reasonably available.
IRC 6103(l)(1) provides that return information related to taxes imposed under chapters 2, 21, and 24 may be disclosed to the Social Security Administration (SSA) as needed to carry out its responsibilities under the Social Security Act. Chapter 2 relates to self-employment income and does not normally concern employers. Chapter 21 concerns Social Security and Medicare (FICA) tax, and chapter 24 deals with income tax withholding.
The IRS may therefore share information with SSA about Social Security and Medicare tax liability if necessary to establish the taxpayer's liability. This provision does not allow the IRS to disclose your tax information to SSA for any other reason. SSA employees who receive this information are bound by the same confidentiality rules as IRS employees. Therefore, they generally cannot disclose the information to a state Social Security Administrator (SSSA), state officials or other federal agencies.
IRC 6103(e)(6) and (c) provide for disclosures to powers of attorney and other designees. If you are notified of an audit by the IRS, you may want to have someone other than the authorized officer of your entity represent you or participate in the meeting. You may bring any individual you wish into the discussion, in person or by telephone. You may give oral consent to speak with a third party if necessary to resolve a Federal tax matter. However, oral consent does not substitute for a power of attorney or a legal designation, and the discussion is limited to the issue for which the consent is given. To officially establish a legal representative, you must provide consent using one of the following forms:
IRC 6103(d) provides that return information may be shared with state agencies responsible for tax administration. The state agency must request this information in writing, and the request must be signed by an official designated to request tax information.
IRC 6103(i)(1) provides that, pursuant to court order, return information may be shared with law enforcement agencies for investigation and prosecution of non-tax criminal laws.
IRC 6103(k)(6) allows the IRS to make limited disclosures of return information in the course of official tax administration investigations to third parties if necessary to obtain information that is not otherwise reasonably available.
IRC 6103(l)(1) provides that return information related to taxes imposed under chapters 2, 21, and 24 may be disclosed to the Social Security Administration (SSA) as needed to carry out its responsibilities under the Social Security Act. Chapter 2 relates to self-employment income and does not normally concern employers. Chapter 21 concerns Social Security and Medicare (FICA) tax, and chapter 24 deals with income tax withholding.
The IRS may therefore share information with SSA about Social Security and Medicare tax liability if necessary to establish the taxpayer's liability. This provision does not allow the IRS to disclose your tax information to SSA for any other reason. SSA employees who receive this information are bound by the same confidentiality rules as IRS employees. Therefore, they generally cannot disclose the information to a state Social Security Administrator (SSSA), state officials or other federal agencies.
IRC 6103(e)(6) and (c) provide for disclosures to powers of attorney and other designees. If you are notified of an audit by the IRS, you may want to have someone other than the authorized officer of your entity represent you or participate in the meeting. You may bring any individual you wish into the discussion, in person or by telephone. You may give oral consent to speak with a third party if necessary to resolve a Federal tax matter. However, oral consent does not substitute for a power of attorney or a legal designation, and the discussion is limited to the issue for which the consent is given. To officially establish a legal representative, you must provide consent using one of the following forms:
Inheritances do not have to be related to death.
If I set up a trust fund for you when you were born, and set it to give you access when you came of legal age/finish three years of high school/fulfill arbitary condition, I dont have to be dead for you to inherit.
We are registered in Illnois.
Business records are public, and list company offices and company officers as public record.
Im not sure about whether they list employee count.
Nevertheless, a ten minute check will reveal Thomas Raith as CEO, and provide additional avenues to go digging.
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The contents of wills are public records after they have been probated.
Gifts are not.
Trusts are not.
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Inheritance can literally mean trust fund baby.
Which is a recognized category of rich kids in the US.
Thats not public records either.
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- Location
- Earth
I pity anyone trying to dig into the Raith family.
To my recollection?
We made him CEO and obscured the actual ownership structure of the company.
Kinda the point.
Running the risk of widowing our best friend's mother by sending him into a confrontation with Whamps doesnt improve anyone's life. Thomas' identity is protective in the supernatural world, but is a liability if vanilla humans go poking, assuming you would prefer to avoid human casualties.
The Whites dont customarily kill people who skirt secrets, but they will happily ruin your life to ruin your credibility.
Oh sure it is not blatantly obvious who owns the place, but Thomas is a hair stylist and small business owner not a high priced accountant, dig far enough and you will find Molly Carpenter.
That sounds like fearmongering right there, why would they kill or discredit someone searching about a company? They have absolutely no reasons to, if they did, they would spend their whole time doing only that and they still wouldn't have enough hours in the day.
Which is why we ask what kind of custom diamond. You know, color, cut, etc. STuff that has to be made on demand. Stuff that we can't reasonably be expected to have lying around in a warehouse. It's sort of like Malfean stealth, only we are actually not stealthy at all, and just prove our outrageous claim.
Sorry, I misspoke. What I was trying to say, if he works for the military, than he can, in principle, flag us for a suspicion of espionage or something similar. If he really wants to.
And inheritance is even more outrageous than Chicago Synthetics. And also paints us in a worse way - we'd be seen as spending inherited money irresponsibly. That's bad.
Yes. And Thomas Raith is a known close associate of Harry Dresden, who is our known close associate. That checks out. Such investigation actually proves our story. If they run this level of background check, and maybe hire a PI, they'll quickly verify "We know Harry, Harry knows Thomas, Thomas invested in our idea, holy cow, it's working out" srory. Throw in a custom diamond, which is half a proof and half a bribe, and we are set. We move from "a screw up druggie friend" to "a diamond in the rough genius with eccentricities that is nevertheless good to be connected to".
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
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[X] Plan "full care"
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.
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[X] You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
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[X]Plan Safety Net
-[X]You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
-[X]If pressed for details, state that you were bequeathed an inheritance when you were about to turn 18 and made some good investments
-[X]All Things Betray + Empathy Excellency + Subterfuge Excellency(if necessary) active: 2m, 1wp
-[X]STUNT: You are met at the door to the Wilson household by their twelve year old, who wordlessly smiles at you, before yelling over his shoulder "Mom! Molly's here!" You smile back at him as you step inside, tousling his hair with your right hand even as you adjust your grip on the file in the other hand. Your eyes meet those of the woman stepping out of the kitchen, her very face and body like an open book to you. "Mrs Wilson. Thank you for seeing me."
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[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
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[X] Plan Queen of all we behold
-[X] Come clear about the magic, you can do a lot of stuff, from crafting impossible tech to creating diamonds or gold.
--[X] Demonstrate if necessary, by literally making something in their shed with a box of scraps.
-[X] We do have a job lined up for her at Chicago Synthetics and can also personally help her and finance higher education later.
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[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Find some time to meet with or call Rosie privately and present this plan to her. The essential idea being to use our resources to make a mundane cover so she can focus on herself and her daughter in whatever form she ultimately wants that to take. Modify based on her input.
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
—[X] Set up evidence of a phone interview and a "second round" in person interview scheduled for the same week the conversation with Rosie's parents takes place in with an initial offer letter that includes the benefits package.
—[X] If necessary imply that someone in the office was sympathetic to her situation and is giving her a chance.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
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Votes are quite close, and debate is ongoing from what I can see I think I'll leave this up until the morning
Thomas is the son of a rich man and sister of a rich woman, who spent the first couple years of the series living up to the rich playboy stereotype so as not to alarm his father into murdering him.
That was one part of the reason why he was so great a pick; people would assume it was a Raith family business he was fronting.
Still front woman for a scam.
Again, 17.
This isnt a comicbook universe. 17 year old high school seniors dont pull off major industrial breakthroughs in their garages with a boxful of scraps. Even the Theranos woman employed a whole company of researchers.
And at Tech 2 Science 0, we cant even bullshit our way through an explanation with the right lingo.
He doesnt work in the military, he's a civilian. He works in the military-industrial complex; manufacturers and service companies providing goods and services to the military. No, he cant just flag us for espionage to get our information.
If an espionage investigation was going on, he'd certainly have no access to it.
Wait. You are claiming that inheriting a trust fund is less plausible than being a one in a generation genius that conceptualized, and funded a unique industrial process. While still in high school.
Dude. Seriously, dude.
I inherited money. I want to spend some of that money on helping my friend.
Thats not irresponsible.
Now if we were snorting lines of coke off the asses of hookers, that would be irresponsible.
1)That doesnt actually prove that Molly isnt the exploited front woman in an ongoing scam.
2)Harry Dresden. You mean the guy that has twice been the subject of manhunts in murder cases by the Chicago Police Department over the last five years? The one who criminals whisper is on Gentleman Marcone's payroll? The one who ppl though it was plausible was murdering women in White Night? That guy?
Nevermind that Thomas Raith also cultivated the reputation of a shiftless playboy with a rotating roster of young women up till around two years ago, when Lara overthrew her father.
Its worth looking beyond protagonist centered morality to see how people might appear to other external observers.
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Companies do not have owners, they are legal entities with more rights and protections then actual people.
Leaving aside how this is literally a comic book universe, it still remains the truth, with multiple levels of verification behind it.
And, given that the diamonds would be real, the scam theory breaks down.
We don't need to, we say "sorry, I won't speak about the process".
Not in, for. A military contractor certainly can talk to his contacts in the army about "my daughter has been contacted by some people with serious financial backing for some nefarious reasons, I fear they might be trying to get to me through her".
No, this is exactly irresonspible. Remember - from the perspective of Rosie's parents their daughter is a recovering drug addict failure who is not ready for adult life, and we are a good-for-nothing black sheep of Carpenter family. Spending money this way is irresponsible, because inherited money are a finite resource. Finite being the keyword. We aren't investing the money, we aren't using them for our family, we are helping Rosie. We also bought ourselves a premium-class car. So, yes, not snorting coke from hooker's butt, but close.
Yes, I am saying that inheriting multimillion fortune out of the blue (and it would have to be multimillion fortune for us to be able to freely spend, probably in the tens of millions) is at least as suspicious as out Chicago Synthetics claim. At least we can back CS claim with documentation and material evidence.
Yes, those guys. Harry's character is irrelevant here. Thomas is playboy trust fund child.
The scam concept breaks down when the diamonds turn out to be real.
- Location
- Germany
I might be missremembering, but didn't we even talk a bit about trust, because it came up that Molly's name was not on the papers and Thomas could technically do whatever with her money?
As far as I know our hold in the business is entirely in things the muggles wouldn't believe, like our magical crafting and our hold on his demon.
Which is not to say we couldn't be found.
Clearly the money ends up on an account that Molly Carpenter has access to, a good investigator can find that out.
I just didn't think we had direct ownership.
"We are the owner of CS" is the best choice because investigations will prove it true. Everything else is a lie. Depending on how any investigation goes, that lie might or might not be uncovered. Why lie when we don't need to?
There's objectively no scam. No smuggling. No counterfeiting or theft. The diamonds are real, the business is real, we are its owner.
There's objectively no scam. No smuggling. No counterfeiting or theft. The diamonds are real, the business is real, we are its owner.
I was thinking more of the fact that as the CEO he can dispose of the money as he wishes, he is the one who keeps handing it to you when you need it for something because Molly is trying to keep some degree of separation. I just was not sure it went as far as ownership.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I actually worked for a US military contractor back in 2006. The vast majority of employees in such companies, even the engineers and upper middle management, don't have any real military contacts. They also won't have any contact on a day to day basis with anyone who is considered military personnel, and even when they do, those people are themselves civilian employees.
Generally, the closest someone really high up in the company might get the someone who actually has any kind of pull with the military is when they deal with whatever retired colonel their company hired to take advantage of their own contacts that might help them get awarded contract solicitations.
Of course, there are different brands of military contractor, and the ones I worked with dealt primarily with logistics, but that pattern held true from what I saw in other aspects of the business, too, including stuff dealing with missile systems, vehicle refurbishment and upgrades, and maintenance contracts.
Basically, if Rosie's stepfather was the kind of employee who had a real military contact he could call on for this kind of favor, and the ability to use a favor like this without fear of all sorts of blowback, he would be far higher up in his company and much, much wealthier.
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No, this is a fantasy novel universe. Get it right
The diamonds being real doesnt actually make it any less a scam
That has been classically how a lot of scams have worked in this space.
Like I said, scam. It ears all the hallmarks.
These people are not strangers; Mrs Wilson has known Molly since she was a child.
She knows we have no history of being a science or tech prodigy. Horses, not zebras.
It just happens that Exalted bullshit exists in-universe.
And that would trigger a law enforcement/counterespionage investigation.
With law enforcement.
It would not give the reporting person any information on the person he was feeling suspicious about.
So once again, the Wilsons wouldnt be able to get their hands on Molly's financial data without her giving it to them.
Not how it works.
None of this is true when you dont know how much the person inherited.
A person with a 2 million dollar trust in US stock market index funds could pay the entirety of my estimated 100k/year for Rosie just on the 50-year average stock market return of 10%/year and still add 3-5% to the principal of their investment every year.
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Also, your characterization of Molly Carpenter as the good for nothing blacksheep makes it even less likely for it to be credible that she is the idea person for a materials science breakthrough
Okay, but then what was this bit supposed to mean?
My understanding was that Molly legally couldn't be involved in any of the actual ownership/ formal operational matters while under 18, which she still is. Further that it was incredibly suspicious so we didn't want to do it immediately anyway.
Which was what the deal with Thomas was; he's on everything and his minion status is entirely a thing of personal agreement rather than anything with legal weight. Which was why a loyal business manager was so important; if they walked our options would basically be down to sword.
I had thought that whenever we spent CS funds it was either effectively laundered by Thomas* or spent on our behalf in his name to preserve the secret.
Fair enough if I've been mistaken this entire time, but that leaves me confused in a different way.
What exactly was the point of the contortionist routine we did to set things up if our name was on the papers all along, and shows up regularly in the bank records?
As it stands it sounds like we did the equivalent of spending weeks getting our poker face right for a high stakes game only to bleed our hand to the entire table from start to finish.
* Not in a complicated way either. The owner takes the profits home and puts them in a personal account. From there no one cares unless he files a fraud claim or the purchase history trips a financial crime flag.
That or go to the trouble of getting him a numbered account if we're really paranoid. They're more heavily regulated, but it's also really annoying to get real names from a banker on one unless there's clear proof of fraud first.
Really we don't even need that much sent this way, because if Thomas just spends it on what we tell him to most of our big purchases can be delivered without passing through our hands first. This would be petty walking around money levels of cash.
Edit: error
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[X] Plan "full care"
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.