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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
Having a demon ripped out of you is not environmental damage, it is collateral damage to the very active Ancient Sorcery spell Molly is casting.
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Technically, the text of TLF doesn't specify protecting others from environmental damage. It says "The difficulty to feed and protect others in such environments is reduced by three," and doesn't even mention environmental damage until the next sentence when it says spending essence makes us immune to environmental damage for the rest of the scene. That kind of sounds like two separate effects.

So technically by RAW TLF works on protecting others, full stop, as long as we're in a qualifying environment, regardless of what we're protecting them from.
 
bengalqueen said:
Technically, the text of TLF doesn't specify protecting others from environmental damage. It says "The difficulty to feed and protect others in such environments is reduced by three," and doesn't even mention environmental damage until the next sentence when it says spending essence makes us immune to environmental damage for the rest of the scene. That kind of sounds like two separate effects.

So technically by RAW TLF works on protecting others, full stop, as long as we're in a qualifying environment, regardless of what we're protecting them from.
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Exorcising a bakemono isn't protecting them, it's harming them. It wouldn't trigger to help with Medicine rolls for surgery so wouldn't trigger here.
 
bengalqueen said:
Technically, the text of TLF doesn't specify protecting others from environmental damage. It says "The difficulty to feed and protect others in such environments is reduced by three," and doesn't even mention environmental damage until the next sentence when it says spending essence makes us immune to environmental damage for the rest of the scene. That kind of sounds like two separate effects.

So technically by RAW TLF works on protecting others, full stop, as long as we're in a qualifying environment, regardless of what we're protecting them from.
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The Infernal needs never make a Survival roll to remain safe, comfortable, and fed in hostile, barren environments such as deserts, tundra, or areas of urban blight. The difficulty to feed and protect others in such environments is reduced by three (minimum of 3).

Given that protect is preceded by feed and the context of the previous sentence it seems pretty clear that it is from the environment, but also...

Alratan said:
Exorcising a bakemono isn't protecting them, it's harming them. It wouldn't trigger to help with Medicine rolls for surgery so wouldn't trigger here.
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This. Given that you are literally inflicting 10 dice of damage I'd day it's not protecting
 
DragonParadox said:
[] Keep this to yourself until you have some place to put a piece of fallen angel
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What sort of vessel would we need? Could we just get a skull like Bob has? Could Harry provide a vessel? Because well I am willing to wait that is only the case if we have a clear path to getting a vessel to keep the fallen angel in.
 
[X] Share the good news with Harry, offer to get the 'kind of' Lasciel out of his head
-[X] Include mentioning that, if he's willing to wait, you'll be working on containment of the banished spirit as soon as possible
 
fictionfan said:
What sort of vessel would we need? Could we just get a skull like Bob has? Could Harry provide a vessel? Because well I am willing to wait that is only the case if we have a clear path to getting a vessel to keep the fallen angel in.
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First you need either Emerald Spirit Binding or the crafting charm, once you have that you can start to shop around for or make a vessel. As to whether Harry could provide one you would have to tell him about the spell first.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Infernal needs never make a Survival roll to remain safe, comfortable, and fed in hostile, barren environments such as deserts, tundra, or areas of urban blight. The difficulty to feed and protect others in such environments is reduced by three (minimum of 3).

Given that protect is preceded by feed and the context of the previous sentence it seems pretty clear that it is from the environment, but also...



This. Given that you are literally inflicting 10 dice of damage I'd day it's not protecting
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Not arguing with the second point, but I do want to argue with the first given a pattern that I've seen in the Infernal charmset. Every hell has a one dot charm that seems to be "survive and thrive in the environment of the hell in question." Boiling Oil has BSM, which not only prevents you from drowning or otherwise being harmed by swimming through the boiling oil, but empowers you as long as you're there, for every roll that you take in the sea, or in any other liquid for that matter. Same with WHWH, it doesn't just work with rolls against the cold like that of Kakuri, it works with every roll so long as it's cold enough. Lanka and Wicked City are less obvious, but "make broken things work" seems like a reasonable empowerment to deal with the environment of a city where basically everything is broken. Same with Wicked City and the charm that lets you control technology with your mind, that's something that would put you in a position of power in the Wicked City. TLF is that charm for Burrowing Maggots. "Place of desolation" is the trigger for the empowerment, just like cold is for Kakuri, wet is for Boiling Oil, somewhere with broken things is for Lanka, and somewhere with technology that it would benefit you to control is for the Wicked City. Given the themes of Burrowing Maggots and charms like Mercy in Servitude, the ability to better protect others works as a fitting empowerment for the charm, like the empowerments granted by its counterparts in the other charmsets.

Also, that semantic argument feels like torture to extract meaning and implications that simply aren't there to my reading comprehension instincts. Even after hearing you explain it with direct quotes, I still don't fully understand how you got that implication from the text. It feels like reaching for a justification rather than the actual meaning of the text itself.
 
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bengalqueen said:
Not arguing with the second point, but I do want to argue with the first given a pattern that I've seen in the Infernal charmset. Every hell has a one dot charm that seems to be "survive and thrive in the environment of the hell in question." Boiling Oil has BSM, which not only prevents you from drowning or otherwise being harmed by swimming through the boiling oil, but empowers you as long as you're there, for every roll that you take in the sea, or in any other liquid for that matter. Same with WHWH, it doesn't just work with rolls against the cold like that of Kakuri, it works with every roll so long as it's cold enough, not just rolls to deal with the cold itself. Lanka and Wicked City are less obvious, but "make broken things work" seems like a reasonable empowerment to deal with the environment of a city where basically everything is broken. Same with Wicked City and the charm that lets you control technology with your mind, that's something that would put you in a position of power in the Wicked City. TLF is that charm for Burrowing Maggots. "Place of desolation" is the trigger for the empowerment, just like cold is for Kakuri, wet is for Boiling Oil, somewhere with broken things is for Lanka, and somewhere with technology that it would benefit you to control is for the Wicked City. Given the themes of Burrowing Maggots and charms like Mercy in Servitude, the ability to better protect others works as a fitting empowerment for the charm, like the empowerments granted by its counterparts in the other charmsets.

Also, that semantic argument feels like torture to extract meaning and implications that simply aren't there to my reading comprehension instincts. Even after hearing you explain it with direct quotes, I still don't fully understand how you got that implication from the text. It feels like reaching for a justification rather than the actual meaning of the text itself.
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Fair enough and it is not like your minions are that powerful, it does mean that in a place of desolation you can automatically parry for another at least once.
 
Alratan said:
Wouldn't it be the Fetich creation charm rather than the crafting charm?
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What is that charm called and more importantly how much does it cost? Because none of these options seem to be cheap. Which is making me less inclined to wait for them.

[X] Share the good news with Harry, offer to get the 'kind of' Lasciel out of his head
-[x]Ask if he wants any help creating a vessel for lash outside his head.
[x] Yog
 
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fictionfan said:
What is that charm called and more importantly how much does it cost? Because none of these options seem to be cheap. Which is making me less inclined to wait for them
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Devil Refining Cauldron. Four dot unflavoured charm. Can bind a willing or 'slain' spirit into an object, which gains magical powers.
 
Alratan said:
Devil Refining Cauldron. Four dot unflavoured charm. Can bind a willing or 'slain' spirit into an object, which gains magical powers.
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The crafting charm is much more all encompassing not that much more expensive. I don't think that we have any reason to get this after that. Unless the two charms would enhance each other somehow?

But even so I don't want to invest so much XP in unfavored charms anytime soon. We have lots of good things in our own hells to get.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Yeah, but the age of legends was so long ago the world had to be remade; Possibly more than one at that.

Valkyries and divine messengers like that shouldn't have the depth of knowledge needed. If they did other people would too, and ancient sorcery has some setting breaking implications to it at scale. To make sense the explanation for how this works needs to describe why people haven't already flipped the board.

What are you talking about? The thing I'm referencing is Molly's assault on Rosie and her boyfriend. Which was direct mind editing to control their behavior. The white god wouldn't have an Angel whisper that idea in someone's ear.



Cause you're looking at it from the wrong angle.

The issue with balancing the books on free will in the Dresden Files is that it's inconsistent. Black court vamps can hold you down and lobotomize your soul until you're basically a flesh robot, and the white god's dudes won't do anything about it unless they happen to be around at the time.

Before you get into the whole thing about other people's choices and chains of consequences as you have before; I'm of the opinion that that stuff is irrelevant. If you can justify overtly taking someone's ability to make choices with that then you can justify anything, and you're no longer talking about free will as most people conceptualize it even if you're using the same term.
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Word of Jim black court vampires are something other so you know not part of the paradigm. Something unwordly. Whereas demons are still worldly.

He in his word of god about them says they're a different story, that they're unworldly, and that they don't really have a choice. So it's not a contradiction so much as an exception.
 
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Anyways never really said free wills absolute just a fundamental part of most of the world. Outside of whatever otherworldly bullshit exists. Which you know fantasy kitchen sink so it's even likely outside of black court and outsiders that other such stuff exists.

Also huzzah we exorcised the girl now to deal with her forever being afraid of us and distrusting all other people! Any ideas what to do with her?
 
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When Harry learns we had the thing and didn't tell him, he'll consider this a betrayal, I feel. At the very least we would be very unlikely to ever get a honest "tell each other your secrets" relationship after that.
 
[x] Yog
-[x] Make it clear that containment is necessary. The spell would separate Lash out as her own entity, leaving an unchained shadow of the fallen loose in the world unless she is somehow contained or killed, so a contingency would need to be set up ahead of time.

Added something of my own, since that's something that needs addressing. Harry needs to know the full risks involved to make a proper decision, and he knows the risks of keeping her in his head already.
 
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