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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
While demon is holding onto the girl, the girl might also be holding onto the demon. Or the demon might be using something of the girl to convince her to cooperate with it.
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Well more information is generally going to be more useful than less. It is a shame that we don't have any mind control or short term coercive charms or this would be easy. Crowned with furry and just take over the demon.
 
[X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
-[X] [Stunt] Looking down on the child Molly closed her eyes, a dangerous sort of calm sweeping through her. Sinking deep, she reached out to her tools; the whispers of her own demon, the reverence of poisoned waters, and after a moment the teeth newly rooted in her soul.
--[X] With a beat the lid on her heart peeled open in time with her physical gaze. A twisted orb of fire announcing itself, herself, in a place beyond the reach of mortal sight.
--[X] With a sensation caught between clearing her throat and narrowing her gaze echoing in her soul, she glared down on the demon within the child.
—[X] "We?" Molly says with affected curiosity. "You have tricked a mortal child into believing you part of her soul Bane, but I can see you" her voice dropping into something inhumanly cold as she glares into the creature's shadowed eyes.
--[X] For a moment she sees something reflected there; a flash of green and the impression of teeth spiraling inward along an iris. Impossible shapes descending through a pupil into something far more permanent than Hell.
—[X] "The game is over. I am ending it. You have two choices. Return to the girl what you have taken and depart with the greatest care for her health, or be forced out so that I can personally make an example of you."


Perhaps a bit much, but I only have a minute while I'm on break and I'm a sucker for eldritch horror from this side of the unspeakable abomination.

Will probably edit a bit later.
 
Really no use of NWS? I mean I don't want a whole update dedicated to what we learn either, but the main use of the charm is finding people's buttons to better push them.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Using that spell on the girl as she is right now would give you the thing she is most ashamed of to have done while possessed as the two are close enough to count as one being for most purposes.
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Which might be useful for getting her to ask forgiveness which seems like it would make everything go smoother.
 
fictionfan said:
Which might be useful for getting her to ask forgiveness which seems like it would make everything go smoother.
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I think that's a stretch. For one thing there isn't a guarantee that what she's most ashamed of actually ties directly into this situation.

For another, there isn't really reason to believe that her showing contrition would actually be that helpful to our actual goal here.

We need to smash the Bane with intimidation until it gives up and goes home. Effects that don't do that aren't very helpful for this task.

It'd just be wasting time.
 
DragonParadox said:
True the old monk had been wise and experienced enough to avoid that tragedy, but for the child who had let a demon crawl in her soul just so she might have someone on her side it was far too little far too late. No matter how well this goes the scars on her soul will take a lifetime to heal. Unless that is you can persuade it to leave, unhook its claws and open its jaws, leave the girl with as little harm done as it can, the only problem being if you try and fail you will have just reinforced the message that monsters hide behind every king face and malice lurks in every seeming kindness.
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That seems definitive.

===
VOTE
[X] Observe the exorcism




RATIONALE
If we spare the girl scars now, but reinforce her belief that monsters lurk behind every kind face, we would have done her more damage than we spared her. This seems an unnecessary risk, since we already have both Michael and Father Forthill here.
Especially since I dont like the numbers.

We are attempting a feat that is the province of saints and greater demons against a hostile demon of Kakuri, so DC9.
Talking a demon out of a host would be at least a Legendary roll, so at least 5 successes.
Possibly 10 successes to do so, given that we need to both get it out and terrify it enough not to leave damage.

We only have Intimidation 4, so we would be rolling Cha 3/Man 3 + Intimidation 4 + Excellency 7 + Stunt 2
Thats 16 dice at DC9.
Modified by Demonic Primacy of Essence(-2DC) and Boiling Sea Mastery(-1DC), thats 16 dice at DC6.

Average 8 successes.

But we have no idea how the demon's Intimacies modify the DCs. Especially since we are talking a demon with the intestinal fortitude to linger in front of a priest and a Knight bearing a Sword in addition to Molly.
Swords can truekill demons, not just banish them. So this critter has a ton of intestinal fortitude to still be hanging around.

Pass.
Too chancy IMO. Let the priest do it.

===
Commentary and replies later.
 
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uju32 said:
We are attempting a feat that is the province of saints and greater demons against a hostile demon of Kakuri, so DC9.
Talking a demon out of a host would be at least a Legendary roll, so at least 5 successes.
Possibly 10 successes to do so, given that we need to both get it out and terrify it enough not to leave damage.
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More that we want more successes then it gets on willpower. I hope that it isn't that high willpower. It seems wrong for the lowest ranks of hell to even have 5.
 
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uju32 said:
That seems definitive.
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I think it depends on how we do it. My write in specifically goes out of the way to make the distinction and threaten the demon independent of the kid and implicitly on her behalf.

She's already scene us in full Shintai with the senses to understand what that means, so it's not like she doesn't already know what Molly looks like when she's being serious. We aren't exposing her to a new monster in an unexpected place.

As long as we don't completely flub the roll the message that we at least believe the bane is a different entity that's hurting her should get through.

Edit:

fictionfan said:
Which might be useful for getting her to ask forgiveness which seems like it would make everything go smoother.
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Given the thing's poor impulse control and inability to pull of a pretty simple plan with the whole suicide charge thing I wouldn't bet on it having a high will score.
 
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uju32 said:
We are attempting a feat that is the province of saints and greater demons against a hostile demon of Kakuri, so DC9.
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Reread the update, it literally tells us that we're doing this at difficulty 7 because of all of our modifiers. And Intimidate is a key ability, which… does still mean we average 8 successes because of how the math works out, but having clearly not read the entire update because of not seeing something clearly written there doesn't help your argument's legitimacy.
 
DragonParadox said:
Using that spell on the girl as she is right now would give you the thing she is most ashamed of to have done while possessed as the two are close enough to count as one being for most purposes.
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Still useful, actually. Who's in charge, as it is - the girl or the demon?
uju32 said:
We are attempting a feat that is the province of saints and greater demons against a hostile demon of Kakuri, so DC9.
Talking a demon out of a host would be at least a Legendary roll, so at least 5 successes.
Possibly 10 successes to do so, given that we need to both get it out and terrify it enough not to leave damage.
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You are inventing things where there are none. We have an explicit task - intimidating a demon to leave the girl. Base DC is 12, that's challenge enough:
DragonParadox said:
[] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
The task would be utterly impossible for an ordinary mortal (Base DC 12 -1 BSM -2 DPE -2 Demonic Guide = 7)
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[X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
-[X] Ask father Forthil to lock the doors of the church until the girl is free of the demon to trigger Cracked Cell Circumvention
-[X] Use Naked Wicked Souls to see what is the most shameful thing the possession resulted in the girl doing, to use it as ammunition for intimidation
-[X] Intimidation excellency.
-[X] Stunt: "Father, lock the doors of the church please; we don't want to be interrupted - the miracle about to happen is not for casual eyes" you say, as you slowly walk towards the altar. As you do so, you observe the girl closely, seeing not just her body, but also her past, the depths of depravity that the demon and life brought her down to. Before the altar, you pause for a moment - to collect your thoughts, and to let the chill of your aura, released as it is, to its full potential, to permeate the area, to embrace the girl and the demon holding her. To demonic senses, it should feel a bit like home, but even deeper, colder and more ancient - and all the more unnerving for it. As the long moment ends, you speak, and in your words, one may hear echoes of something infinitely greater than this lowly demon, or even its master. The terms are simple - it will leave the girl, for such is your will, and that, alone, is enough a reason for it to obey.

We should be able to trigger CCC. At 16 dice (14 +2) at difficulty 4 we should be rolling ~12.8 successes.
 
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Yog said:
Stunt: "Father, lock the doors of the church please; we don't want to be interrupted - the miracle about to happen is not for casual eyes"
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This is a really weird vibe to start on.

All three of them are Catholic and one is a literal knight of the cross. Miracle has a very specific meaning to them and it isn't something that it seems like Molly would be actively labeling her own actions as.

It also kind of implies Forthill is an idiot. I mean he almost certainly has the church is locked down, he has a kid tied up in front of the altar. One vanilla mortal walking in would be no end of trouble for him.
 
BronzeTongue said:
This is a really weird vibe to start on.

All three of them are Catholic and one is a literal knight of the cross. Miracle has a very specific meaning to them and it isn't something that it seems like Molly would be actively labeling her own actions as.
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Ok, yeah, you are probably right. Hmm... How to rewrite this... Maybe like this? Simple is best.

[X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
-[X] Ask father Forthil to lock the doors of the church until the girl is free of the demon to trigger Cracked Cell Circumvention
-[X] Use Naked Wicked Souls to see what is the most shameful thing the possession resulted in the girl doing, to use it as ammunition for intimidation
-[X] Intimidation excellency.
-[X] Stunt: "Father, I would ask your help - no matter what, do not let me leave until the girl is free" you say, as you slowly walk towards the altar. As you do so, you observe the girl closely, seeing not just her body, but also her past, the depths of depravity that the demon and life brought her down to. Before the altar, you pause for a moment - to collect your thoughts, and to let the chill of your aura, released as it is, to its full potential, to permeate the area, to embrace the girl and the demon holding her. To demonic senses, it should feel a bit like home, but even deeper, colder and more ancient - and all the more unnerving for it. As the long moment ends, you speak, and in your words, one may hear echoes of something infinitely greater than this lowly demon, or even its master. The terms are simple - it will leave the girl, for such is your will, and that, alone, is enough a reason for it to obey.
BronzeTongue said:
It also kind of implies Forthill is an idiot. I mean he almost certainly has the church is locked down, he has a kid tied up in front of the altar. One vanilla mortal walking in would be no end of trouble for him.
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And yet, as far as the scene is set up, we just walked in. @DragonParadox is the church locked up? It seems logical, but still. And what would it take to trigger CCC in this situation? Would it be as simple as getting father Forthil to promise not to let us leave until the girl is free? Or would it take strapping an explosive collar to our neck or something?

And in any case, both excellency should be specified, I think, and CCC should definitely be gamed.
 
Yog said:
We would need to customize it anyway. Also, apparently, the technology existed even way back in 19th century, and in USA there's an Edison-designed version. So, yeah, definitely no need to go crazy here.

Train is a bad idea for this anyway. Installing turrets would probable be better. Or we could go with a subterrene (check out a russian version of the wiki page with a translator, it's far larger, and covers more versions).
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1)The technology itself isnt new.
Actually buying one on the market, because even the places that use them dont appear to have very many, or decomission them often. Its not like buying a used car.

2) Thats simpler but much less flexible.
We'll need to get clarification from the QM on what Porter currently can or cannot do before proceeding.
Might end up doing both fixed defenses and a mobile train construct.
Alratan said:
Staking them makes them die the little death, which kicks their souls out of their bodies and sends them to the spirit realms.
The LoC probably don't want that to happen, as they can act there.
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Nope, you're mistaken.
It disrupts their ability to use Chi, it doesnt kick their souls out of their bodies.
Alratan said:
It's worth remembering that fomor/bakemono aren't simply possessed (most of the time( there's a very expensive merit that represents that the human and bane remain distinct enough to be separated), their soul has been merged with a bane/devil. They can be Exorcised by magic, but it's very invasive spiritual surgery that basically always does a huge amount of aggravated damage as a consequence.

It may be worth a Crown question to ask about the metaphysics of bakemono, so we can help with preparations for any exorcism. Might discount fomor creation charms as well.
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Not how it works in the Dresdenverse.
Possession here in this cosmology doesnt make you part of the victim. The closest we come to that here is the White Court, where removing the Hunger of a Whampire that has fledged is possible, but likely to be quite damaging.

BronzeTongue said:
Really? That's disappointing.
Online sources are usually trash for this sort of thing, but they made it sound more like a thing they lived through but screwed with their ability to use chi.Useful enough I guess if we need to disable some guys later, but not helpful right now.
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Thats what it does. Alratan is mistaken.
Explicitly stated when distinguishing between Kin-jin(Cainite vamps) and Kuejin(Wuan Kuei)
Page 13 said:
Stake Through Heart.
A stake through the heart does not automatically paralyze a Kuei-jin.
However, the heart is instrumental in processing Chi energy, and certain types of attacks can disrupt the Chi flow in a Kuei-jin's
body. Vampires of Yin prove vulnerable to wood, the element of Yang; conversely, vampires of Yang are vulnerable to metal, the
element of Yin.
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uju32 said:
1)The technology itself isnt new.
Actually buying one on the market, because even the places that use them dont appear to have very many, or decomission them often. Its not like buying a used car.
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We would obviously making one ourselves. Point is, it's not some sort of high tech or overly complicated thing. With the help of cyberdevils we should definitely be able to design and build one as we are. At most, we'd want a technology excellency and maybe technology 3, but even that's unlikely.
 
uju32 said:
Nope, you're mistaken.
It disrupts their ability to use Chi, it doesnt kick their souls out of their bodies.
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It does. This is fluff text to explain why they go into torpor with metal through the heart when Yang aligned and Wooden ones when Yin aligned. Torpor is elsewhere explained as being the 'Little Death' for them, which kicks their souls out of their bodies into the spirit worlds.

uju32 said:
Not how it works in the Dresdenverse.
Possession here in this cosmology doesnt make you part of the victim. The closest we come to that here is the White Court, where removing the Hunger of a Whampire that has fledged is possible, but likely to be quite damaging.
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World of Darkness has possessing spirits that can be exorcised. Fomori aren't that, they're something else, a merger of a spirit and a human rather than a simple possession. Fomor/Bakemono are a novel type of supernatural creature, more akin to a red court vampire than anything else in the Dresdenverse.
 
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[X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
-[X] [Stunt] Looking down on the child Molly closed her eyes, a dangerous sort of calm sweeping through her. Sinking deep, she reached out to her tools; the whispers of her own demon, the reverence of poisoned waters, and after a moment the teeth newly rooted in her soul.
--[X] With a beat the lid on her heart peeled open in time with her physical gaze. A twisted orb of fire announcing itself, herself, in a place beyond the reach of mortal sight.
--[X] With a sensation caught between clearing her throat and narrowing her gaze echoing in her soul, she glared down on the demon within the child.
—[X] "We?" Molly says with affected curiosity. "You have tricked a mortal child into believing you part of her soul Bane, but I can see you" her voice dropping into something inhumanly cold as she glares into the creature's shadowed eyes.
--[X] For a moment she sees something reflected there; a flash of green and the impression of teeth spiraling inward along an iris. Impossible shapes descending through a pupil into something far more permanent than Hell.
—[X] "The game is over. I am ending it. You have two choices. Return to the girl what you have taken and depart with the greatest care for her health, or be forced out so that I can personally make an example of you."
 
Alratan said:
It does. This is fluff text to explain why they go into torpor with metal through the heart when Yang aligned and Wooden ones when Yin aligned. Torpor is elsewhere explained as being the 'Little Death' for them, which kicks their souls out of their bodies into the spirit worlds.
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Then why is that section written the way it is? Seems implicit to the premise that saying it doesn't paralyze and does disrupt chi that it isn't doing anything else.

It'd be like if I described beating someone into unconsciousness as "inhibiting motor control". Yes technically, but stating that clause first and then going on to describe the other thing that renders it moot is pointless.
 
[x] BronzeTongue
BronzeTongue said:
Then why is that section written the way it is? Seems implicit to the premise that saying it doesn't paralyze and does disrupt chi that it isn't doing anything else.

It'd be like if I described beating someone into unconsciousness as "inhibiting motor control". Yes technically, but stating that clause first and then going on to describe the other thing that renders it moot is pointless.
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It's weirdly written, but as I read it you can put Wan Kuei into torpor/paralysis similar to western vamps, but only if you use metal or wood depending on what Chi they are running on today.

I don't know if that's the full little death, where the soul has to linger nearby, or just paralysis, but the effect is basically the same.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Apr 15, 2023 at 1:35 AM, finished with 54 posts and 15 votes.
  • [X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
    -[X] [Stunt] Looking down on the child Molly closed her eyes, a dangerous sort of calm sweeping through her. Sinking deep, she reached out to her tools; the whispers of her own demon, the reverence of poisoned waters, and after a moment the teeth newly rooted in her soul.
    --[X] With a beat the lid on her heart peeled open in time with her physical gaze. A twisted orb of fire announcing itself, herself, in a place beyond the reach of mortal sight.
    --[X] With a sensation caught between clearing her throat and narrowing her gaze echoing in her soul, she glared down on the demon within the child.
    —[X] "We?" Molly says with affected curiosity. "You have tricked a mortal child into believing you part of her soul Bane, but I can see you" her voice dropping into something inhumanly cold as she glares into the creature's shadowed eyes.
    --[X] For a moment she sees something reflected there; a flash of green and the impression of teeth spiraling inward along an iris. Impossible shapes descending through a pupil into something far more permanent than Hell.
    —[X] "The game is over. I am ending it. You have two choices. Return to the girl what you have taken and depart with the greatest care for her health, or be forced out so that I can personally make an example of you."
    [X] Observe the exorcism
    [X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
    [X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
    -[X] Use your crown to find out what the demon's greatest fear is, and leverage it.
    -[X] I see you are afraid of X. That is very reasonable. That will change. I am what you should be most afraid of. Because if you do not leave this girl unharmed, the exorcism will not end here. Because I will return to the night realm. And I will find you there, and I will kill you. Slowly. I will shred the tattered remains of what you call a soul into oblivion in a way that would make even the lords of the thousand hells flinch.
    [X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
    -[x] Stunt: The last demon of Kakuri I faced was the "The will of Kakuri" He is dead forever more. Unless you with to see the your final night leave now.
    [X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
    -[X]Use Naked Wicked Souls first. Maybe we will find some blackmail to use.
    [X] Write in - Compassion
    -[X] If it wouldn't hurt the exorcism, kneel down in front of the girl and hold her hand. If it would, simply kneel down and stay in line of sight. The demon is less important here than the child. Your goal, desire, and hope is to make it so that the child has less screaming nightmares than she inevitably will. Be there and willing to should some of her inevitable terror, if nothing else.
    [X] Try to intimidate the demon of Kakuri Wan out of the girl
    -[X] Ask father Forthil to lock the doors of the church until the girl is free of the demon to trigger Cracked Cell Circumvention
    -[X] Use Naked Wicked Souls to see what is the most shameful thing the possession resulted in the girl doing, to use it as ammunition for intimidation
    -[X] Intimidation excellency.
    -[X] Stunt: "Father, I would ask your help - no matter what, do not let me leave until the girl is free" you say, as you slowly walk towards the altar. As you do so, you observe the girl closely, seeing not just her body, but also her past, the depths of depravity that the demon and life brought her down to. Before the altar, you pause for a moment - to collect your thoughts, and to let the chill of your aura, released as it is, to its full potential, to permeate the area, to embrace the girl and the demon holding her. To demonic senses, it should feel a bit like home, but even deeper, colder and more ancient - and all the more unnerving for it. As the long moment ends, you speak, and in your words, one may hear echoes of something infinitely greater than this lowly demon, or even its master. The terms are simple - it will leave the girl, for such is your will, and that, alone, is enough a reason for it to obey.
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