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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Earth-Destroyer said:
We are not wasting AP on that when we can just use the charm as intended. We are an infernal, any COD loses social to an Infernal. That is inbuilt and unchangeable.
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… Being this hostile about your position doesn't do a lot to advance it, especially when your argument is "but I'm right and you're not so shut up" instead of an actual rebuttal.

More to the point, there are issues other than the morality of it that I've talked about extensively at this point.

I don't expect you to agree, but there is more going into this than arguments about mind control.

On a more practical level, this isn't an issue the thread as a whole as a strong majority opinion about. Trying to dictate the point either direction is more likely to devolve into a particularly painful voting cycle or two than actually do anything productive.

This compromise gives us all what we want and opens interesting new opportunities independent of the problem it solves. Which is well worth the AP.
 
[X] Three tier 2 formulas
-[x]•• 160-Hour Energy Drink: A vial of liquid that allows the drinker to go a week with only a single hour of sleep per night without penalties.
-[x]•• Enhance Ability: an elixir that can enhance a specific ability in a person who drinks it. The drinker gains a specialty in that ability for the duration (or +2 dice when it is relevant if they already have one) for one hour per success on the creation.
-[x] •• Healing: In addition to the effects of Speed-Healing, this potion heals up to two bashing or lethal levels immediately.
 
[X] Yog
[X] Plan formulas of victory
 
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You have been putting a lot of thought into this. Although I don't think much of the pain killers. They are useless to Molly who has a charm for pain and I don't know about giving them to people without Exalted healing.

[X] Plan formulas of victory
 
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[X] Plan formulas of victory

Does painkiller even stack with what we already have? We can already basically ignore pain.
 
Huh. We may also be able to make healing grenades and poison grenades with plan victory. It all depends on if the healing potion counts as water based alchemical ingredient.
 
I was thinking of a potion that clears the body of junk stuff inside it. Plastic, chemicals, and other junk that are recent problems, probably 1 or 2 dots. Especially good for America which as terrible laws about food quality.
 
fictionfan said:
They are useless to Molly who has a charm for pain
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Wound penalties reductions are cumulative. Molly's only would penalty charm merely gives a -1 reduction. She still gets inflicted with a -1 if she sustains any serious damage, and -4 at her last couple of HLs.

Unless we get this potion.

As long as we are participating in fights where we are actually likely to be meaningfully hurt, this is an effect comparable to Boiling Sea Mastery. It is very good.
JayTar said:
Does painkiller even stack with what we already have? We can already basically ignore pain.
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Rule zero of whatever QM says, goes does apply, but by default, everything stacks.
 
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Prospalz said:
Wound penalties reductions are cumulative. Molly's only would penalty charm merely gives a -1 reduction. She still gets inflicted with a -1 if she sustains any serious damage, and -4 at her last couple of HLs.

Unless we get this potion.
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Potions do not keep. Molly even with her dice pool cannot reliably make potions last more then a week. You have to brew potions for each incident, during each incident. Generally it is not worth it for Molly to bother, when she can just Slaughter most anything, and regen faster then it would take to brew a potion. And that minor of a boost is not going to swing a major peer opponent.
 
Depending on sux you choose if you make more potions that last a day or few but that last a week.

Potions lasting more than a week requires more sux than is realistic.

Edit: this is the potion and not the effect.
 
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Totally out of the left field, but here's some homebrew that's been spooking around in my brain for a while:

Reactor-Heart Transplant (••••) (Lanka)
The Infernal kindles the inner flame of mortals to burn with a fraction of her own brightness. Mortals may wither under this gift, but those strong enough to deserve it will survive.
System: The Infernal must spend a mote of Essence each day and roll Perception+Occult to implant it into a mortal or near- mortal (Sorcerers, Formori or Shih are options, Mages, Vampires or other fully supernatural creatures not). The target must make a Willpower roll (DC10 - Number of the Infernal's successes) to accept the Essence. A failure causes a level of unsoakable lethal damage, a botch interrupts the procedure permanently, making it clear that the mortal is not compatible with Infernal Essence.
After the Mortal has gained 15 total successes in his daily Willpower rolls he has successfully adapted the Infernal spark and burns with his own Essence, becoming an Enlightened Mortal. Whenever the Enlightened Mortal uses his Essence he shows minor signs of its Infernal origin, like a small flicker of hellfire in his eyes.
Interrupting this process for a day causes it to fail, though it can be retried later. During the procedure the mortal is feverish, in pain and barely able to rest, he has +2 Difficulty on all actions he takes outside of the daily WP-roll, plus one more if it takes more than a week.


Enlightened Mortal
This mortal has unlocked Essence of his own, most likely through the direct aid of an Exalted, though it is rumored that the secrets of Essence can be tought in mundane training and meditation as well, a process that would likely take years even for the most talented.
The mortal has a pool of Essence as shown in the table below and regains (Essence Rating) Motes each day at sunrise.
The Mortal may now learn Supernatural Martial Arts, Sorcerer Paths or Ancient Sorcery, though learning the last without an Exalted teacher requires twice the usual amount of XP as mortals are not well equiped to comprehend Ancient Sorcery, even if they have a book or another mortal sorcerer to learn it from.
Essence may be used in the following ways:
  • Spend a mote of Essence on an automatic success, similar to temporary Willpower (can't use this on the same roll as WP)
  • Fuel supernatural powers in place of Mana, Rage or Chi (For Sorcerers, Formori or Shih respectivly)
  • While wounded you may spend one Essence per day to ensure a clean and scarless healing of wounds, even absent of medical help. This does not speed up the recovery, only ensures its success
  • While sick you may spend one Essence per day to lower the difficulty of future rolls to resist the disease by 1, ensuring eventual recovery for any disease
  • For the purpose of age-related penalties and the eventual death, add a decade to the lifetime per Essence-Rating


Essence RatingEssence PoolEssence/Round
131
251
362
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Potions do not keep. Molly even with her dice pool cannot reliably make potions last more then a week. You have to brew potions for each incident, during each incident.
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At two dots, we are able to craft one dot potions in literal five minutes thanks to the charm that accelerates crafting. Two dots still take an hour+, but that'll pass at three dots.

Also, in no world stacking -1 difficulty adjustment is a minor boost. Vast majority of our healthbar is -1 and -4 health levels; anyone manages to do the 3HL damage, we start suffering wound penalties, unless we have this potion active.
Homebrew stuff
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Awesome. TBH the homebrew embargo is kind of discouraging rn, but it is still awesome to see ppl make this stuff.

The target must make a Willpower roll (DC10 - Number of the Infernal's successes) to accept the Essence. A failure causes a level of unsoakable lethal damage, a botch interrupts the procedure permanently, making it clear that the mortal is not compatible with Infernal Essence.
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Ability to spend WP does ensure that no heroic mortal ever going to botch and is deeply unlikely to fail.

Which is fine, this is what WP spending is for - just making it clear to the ppl if anyone feels that this is actually dangerous.

Anyway, how do the enlightened mortals recover essence? And that passage about learning this stuff on your own is ehhhh. In modern age, harsh training does get you something - you become a sorcerer or shih. But that's no exalted essence. Unless we lean real hard into "Things are different in DF."
 
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Prospalz said:
Also, in no world stacking -1 difficulty adjustment is a minor boost. Vast majority of our healthbar is -1 and -4 health levels; anyone manages to do the 3HL damage, we start suffering wound penalties, unless we have this potion active.
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See the problem is if your taking that much damage in a WF game, you are most likely already going to lose. If an enemy can get thou Molly's soak they can kill her regardless. I know exalted was know for being a game of rocket tag, but that is true of all of WF games. The initial exchange tends to determine the winner of a combat, so your alpha strike capabilities are the most important.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
See the problem is if your taking that much damage in a WF game, you are most likely already going to lose. If an enemy can get thou Molly's soak they can kill her regardless. I know exalted was know for being a game of rocket tag, but that is true of all of WF games. The initial exchange tends to determine the winner of a combat, so your alpha strike capabilities are the most important.
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We have a lot of additional health-levels compared to anything a Vampire or Werewolf can get.
We are significantly less vulnerable to a lucky hit than most beings in WoD due to that.

Right now we can suffer 3 damage without taking a penalty, which is great.
With the painkiller we could take 8 damage without a penalty, which is awesome.
We can run around that would have long decided a fight against anyone else and not loose a single die.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
See the problem is if your taking that much damage in a WF game, you are most likely already going to lose. If an enemy can get thou Molly's soak they can kill her regardless.
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We regularly suffer multiple levels of HL damage in fights. That one time, a literal fomori mook lucked out and dealt three points of damage to us.

But somehow, despite regularly suffering damage in combat, we have yet to lose.

White Wolf Rocket Tag is mostly a thing because;
1) In oWoD, dice pools and HL pools are minuscule and wound penalties kick in early. Therefore, dice is super-swingy, with only WP spending anchoring things somewhat for important rolls.

This is not a thing for Molly with her excellencies and ox bodies and shintai. This is going to get increasingly less of a thing as we continue to stack stuff.

2) In Exalted 2/2.5 casually pouring a literal physical bucket of damage dice was possible with pretty basic combos. Unless you heavily specced into soak, any dedicated combat build makes people go splat unless they activate a perfect.

Even in that environment, Lunars and Infernals were able to stack enough soak and HL to make soak builds reasonably useful. Chung made some soak builds he counted as viable in that ecology, and he is like, the father of rocket-tag paranoia "if you don't have a reflexive perfect defense combo, you are a stain on the floor" combat style of E2.
 
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Prospalz said:
Awesome. TBH the homebrew embargo is kind of discouraging rn, but it is still awesome to see ppl make this stuff.
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Maybe it will get used sooner or later, right now I just wanted to get it down.

Prospalz said:
Ability to spend WP does ensure that no heroic mortal ever going to botch and is deeply unlikely to fail.
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If they have enough WP to spend. I wouldn't try this without a heroic reserve of willpower.

Prospalz said:
Anyway, how do the enlightened mortals recover essence? And that passage about learning this stuff on your own is ehhhh. In modern age, harsh training does get you something - you become a sorcerer or shih. But that's no exalted essence. Unless we lean real hard into "Things are different in DF."
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They recover Essence mostly by drawing on their own lifeforce and the energy around them feeding the flame that an Exalt has lit, not unlike Shih naturally recovering their Chi or Sorcerers their Mana, just in addition to that because Exalted Charms don't really care about conservation of energy.

And the line about achieving this as a mortal is pure theory and I'm not sure if it should be used.
 
BronzeTongue said:
What's the relevancy to what was being discussed? This specific part of the conversation was about Isabela and the consequences of our choices in relation to her.

Half reds and fledgling white vamps exist, and we should try to help them. That doesn't advance your specific desire here.
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MMP satisfies all kinds of supernatural hunger. Thus, keeping in mind half-reds, and ghouls, MMP is a good solution for their problems.
BronzeTongue said:
That's still wildly irresponsible; shooting people up with something that could seriously murder them on the hope it turns out right is not a good plan.
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Where do you get "could seriously murder them" from? MMP doesn't kill people. At most it makes them slightly better disoposed to Molly.
BronzeTongue said:
She's capable of feeding right now in controlled doses and the hunger doesn't kill the host on purpose, it does it because it's starving. If she's full when she leaves then I don't see a reason that her life should be in danger if she drops off of MiS.
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It has been explained. Even if she is full to the point of near bursting, all it does is buy her several days before that energy is depleted, and she's back to the point where she has to kill someone.
fictionfan said:
On the subject of potions. You know how many potions have ill side effects.
With but a smile and a caress, the Infernal can grant immunity to the ravages of the very seas of Hell. System: The Infernal touches someone she feels affection for and rolls Charisma + Survival against difficulty 6. The subject becomes immune to any sort of harm from liquid for one day per success. This includes crushing, battering, drowning, boil - ing, and immunity to any sort of liquid poisons. The Infernal may target herself, if she desires
Actually even a maggot smootie likely has no side effects.
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That's an interesting idea. I don't think that our exaltation would consider "target likes Molly more" as a harmful effect, but it's a very interesting idea indeed. We need this charm anyway, it's a very good option (especially because of how it combines with TLF - in places of desolation we always get this effect for ourselves without needing to roll at all, and get to grant it at roll difficulty 3) that would allow us to start utilizing all kinds of super nasty solutions.
 
BronzeTongue said:
This is the perfect compromise for us here. It essentially covers all of my serious objections other than scale, but we can probably milk more use out of it as a source of reagents so it'll still have some relevance past the point where we exceed the maggot population.

On a note related to alchemy, @DragonParadox can we stack the permanent transformations on a single object? Like creating a nearly unbreakable and ever sharp mirror blade.

We don't really need one, but as a trade good or equipment for minions it has potential. A good number of our supernatural minions have the potential reflexes to break or wear down mundane equipment, or move fast enough to block things that they and their usual tools can't soak. A sword that can stand up to rifle fire would be quite useful even before we get into possible future enhancements.

It could even end up as something like a signature bit of kit, sort of like the silver swords of the wardens.
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Yes, but not endlessly, you can add one transformation per dot of alchemy you know.
 
Yog said:
That's an interesting idea. I don't think that our exaltation would consider "target likes Molly more" as a harmful effect, but it's a very interesting idea indeed. We need this charm anyway, it's a very good option (especially because of how it combines with TLF - in places of desolation we always get this effect for ourselves without needing to roll at all, and get to grant it at roll difficulty 3) that would allow us to start utilizing all kinds of super nasty solutions.
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The roll barely matters. The charm doesn't costs essanse and lasts for days*successes. The only reason it might be a problem is if we send someone on a long term mission.
 
DragonParadox said:
Yes, but not endlessly, you can add one transformation per dot of alchemy you know.
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Huh, so at Alchemy 4 we should definitely be able to make Warden Swords:
•• Metal that can be crafted into a blade with an ultra-keen edge, one that never needs to be re-sharpened.
••• Hunter's Blade: A treatment for a small weapon to cause it to do aggravated damage against supernatural beings.
••• Prima Metallum: A metal that is stronger than titanium but as workable as aluminum, that retains an edge perfectly almost forever. Armor made from it gains an extra soak die against basing and lethal without additional restriction, melee weapons gain +1 damage and -1 difficulty to hit.

Basically stack those, and add something (possibly an enchantment) to make it able to cut ghosts and other incorporeal things. Stack 15+ successes on actual crafting. Maybe also stack awakening the least god of the sword on top of that.
 
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